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Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

129K views 240 replies 70 participants last post by  Grapes 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

72 hours into my world falling apart. I was recommended this forum as a good place to vent and get better advice than I'm maybe seeing elsewhere.

I'll try to condense as much as I can but I’m a writer by trade and I can’t edit myself for ****. The basics: I'm mid-30s, wife is a couple years older, married 7 years, been together for 9. Couple of kids. Life was hectic but solid. We both have busy atypical careers in two different fields (not 9-to-5s) I gave up a lot of my career so she could pursue hers (or rather, I took the ****tier version of it but we did okay). We built a life, a house, kids, rhythms -- maybe more suburban than I would've liked, but it was working for us, and I wanted to give her the family she never thought she’d have.

As a side note: I would say we came in with a very strong foundation, not built solely on sex (although that was great): shared visions of our future, similar aspirations, some overlap in hobbies, we respected the hell out of each other, loved each other even more. Even today I don’t doubt any of that. Just wanted to say: it WAS good.

Fast forward to three years ago -- careers are going okay, finances are always edgy (freelancing is a lot tougher in a small town, but that’s where her career brought us), but we've got a house (thanks to a couple good years for me), we've got a family.

It’s important for me to state that I think both of us would say at this point (4 years into marriage, 6 years into relationship) we felt VERY SOLID. Like our life was coming together finally. So many milestones, new baby, first house, jobs going good, etc, etc. But cracks are starting to show.

Sex is disappearing. Normal, right? Babies are hard, pregnancy is hard. Except... unlike before, it doesn't seem to be coming back AT ALL. Every 6-9 months maybe ... for three years.

Fights. Prior to this mark (3 years ago) we had maybe 2 big fights. Nothing else. We literally didn't fight. I was amazed (I think something different now, but more on that later). We weren't fighting that much more at this point, but we were having the same fights: for my part it was feelings of isolation (a big city guy with no friends in a small town), career frustration, and lack of support and affection from her. For her: she felt I had anger issues and I was letting them affect our children (she was abused as a child I now understand). We had maybe 3 of these BIG shouting fights in the past three years.

We worked through many of the issues, spanking is no longer a thing in our house. I still get frustrated, but I’m trying to work on it. For her … well. We were roommates. We worked great as parents, but we were nothing beyond that. I had a wife, but I no longer had a lover. Recently, in the past year, she has taken the view that she has shut me away because of these anger issues, that’s where the lack of intimacy, support, general affection all went. A big fight like we had would cause 9 months of walled off emotion. Then there would be a thaw.

Maybe I shouldn’t describe it as a thaw. She wasn’t an ice queen, she wasn’t malicious. It was just … bland. Gone was the girl who was so in love with me I could see it shining in her eyes.

It had gotten so bad that I had decided that come December of this year (once she passed a major milestone at work – a five year project completed) and I finished my latest commission that we would start couples counseling. Otherwise, I was seeing no change in my unhappiness and I was thinking about divorce, not vindictively, but it felt like if we were both unhappy and there wasn’t going to be an effort to change then we should probably look for happiness elsewhere.

And then she beat me to the punch. We managed to carve out a few hours one Sunday night for a date, she took the opportunity to cautiously asked me if we could have an open marriage. I was stunned, how could she not see how broken we were? How could she not want sex with me, but want it with other people? Strangers, just physical, she insisted. It was an emotional night, she relented almost immediately, felt terrible that she had even asked, we really connected, spent a ton of time talking, tried to understand each other, we had sex for the first time in forever. Was this a turning point?

The next few weeks were tough but felt like we had achieved something, I was gone for a few days of every week for work. When I was home we were working through stuff, I started lifting and running again because I felt like she was telling me she had an attraction to that kind of super fit guy (more on that in a second), we were having good sex, we both started (solo) therapy. Things were getting better … I actually was starting to have hope that this might have been a turning point for us, that we might be back on the path to a happy marriage even if there seemed like a ton of work to go and the idea that she wanted the open marriage had been such a mind**** that I was still processing it.

And then.

I’m unsure if it happened immediately after she asked the “open marriage” question, or if it was a few days after that. But either way, she entered into an affair. In truth, she now admits the “open marriage” question was actually a cloaked request for permission to sleep with one specific man: our neighbor.

I’ll call him Fitness Bro. He’s a personal trainer, hyper-focused weekend warrior-type (key note: she used to be too, it was a huge part of her life before me, two of her major long-term relationships before me were men nearly identical to Fitness Bro – I wish I had known that). After much interrogation on my part I have come to the conclusion that it was not out of the blue, it was a long time coming.

When we moved into house three years ago, she admits she immediately found him attractive, but deliberately took steps to isolate herself. One might think: good! She knew the warning signs!

Nope, it was just on ice. Jump ahead to this past summer.

In June I was gone for a month. Almost immediately a For Sale sign goes up next door. I do think this was purely coincidence, if only because I never told Fitness Bro anything, he was kind of annoying as a neighbor, though not anything I wasted time on. But then … the For Sale sign. Turns out Fitness Bro is separating from his (allegedly) abusive wife.

No sympathy from me, but I do have sympathy for their poor son, 10 years old, quite a **** sandwich he’s been getting from Dad and Mom. But I digress.

My wife started visiting his house to work out a training plan, use a leg compression set-up he markets (for workout recovery), maybe once a week she’d go over. I’ll admit, I was jealous, but she was happy to be starting serious training again and I didn’t want to rain on the parade.

I’m a ****ing idiot.

They were doing all of that, but with Fitness Bro’s wife out of the picture now, my wife had taken her vague attraction for the hot neighbor to the next level. I believe she now had a crush.

That continued up to the “open marriage” question in September. During this time they started texting, that turned to flirting, and … following the open marriage question he eventually told her that he “wanted to be with her”. Her response was “[HUSBAND] will be out of town next week.” They had planned just to kiss, kidding themselves that it wasn’t really cheating … but it went straight to sex.

That was second or third week of September. It has been ongoing since then up until Sunday night.

I’m crushed. Because during this same time, following the open marriage question, I really thought we were getting somewhere. But now I realize I was just getting the emotional echo of her infatuation with this other man.

All the moments of great sex and happiness coincided (I now know based on a “hunch” log I was keeping) with encounters she had with him. In the stretches where she wasn’t seeing him because they were trying to be “just friends” she became distant, like she had been for the past three years. And then magically she’d transform from the stone-faced roommate I said goodbye to in the morning to her old flirtatious energetic self by the time we had a date that night. I’d later find out that it was only because she’d given him head in her office three hours before (that perversely seemed to be her pattern for how she ended their “breakups” she’d invite him to meet her in semi-public place – her office, our minivan in the Target parking lot – and get him off. I’m sorry for the gory details. I just don’t know what to do with the mental images.)

This whole time I was insane with jealousy. I was losing sleep, I was convinced I was crazy because there was no evidence. No huge chunks of time missing (turns out they're just quicker than I could've thought). She quickly discovered Whatsapp. She locked her phone and turned off notifications, I was traveling so much it took me until two weeks ago to REALLY notice that odd behavior. And I was too caught up with maybe things getting better to really push it.

I kept a log though, and it matches up with startling accuracy. So there’s that at least. My “gut feeling” – it was ****ING RIGHT.

I caught her Sunday night because she made the mistake of going into the office at an unusual time.

When I saw Fitness Bro drive off in the same direction as she left I knew it was on. I followed with the kids (in our – unknown to me – recently defiled minivan) and stood outside the office building while I watched the light turn on in her office, and two silhouettes appear, and come together.

Oddly, I just felt triumphant. I even said “I ****ing knew it!”

I went home, put the kids to bed, waited for her to come home. I worried she might deny it, I went for a drive – that was a mistake. I think she knew something was up. Texted me: “You okay?” I think that’s a pretty common guilt question from cheaters, right?

I drove home, stormed into our room, snatched the phone out of her hand and starting shouting. She stonewalled (had managed to lock the phone) for a few minutes and then eventually confessed.

The rest of the night was a lot of tears on her part, a lot of prying on my part. An almost immediate promise that it was over. At one point I stormed next door. The dip**** answered the door in his underwear. I wanted to break his jaw but I knew me spending the night in jail (much less potentially losing that fight) was not something I wanted my kids knowing about (or being affected by). So I just told him “It’s over” and kept repeating it until he stopped pretending he didn’t know what I was talking about.

Yuck.

And so here I am. Three days later. ****ed up. Lonely. Hating this woman. Desperate to get back to the way we were years ago. Wondering if we’ve changed too much. Wondering how she could be so vindictive in how she went about it – I mean asking me? Then days later making plans to do it anyway? It’s like a ****ing alien took over her body – she’s like the sweetest person you’d ever meet. I’m seriously wondering if there’s a brain tumor at work here. And most of all I’m wondering why I keep ****ing her every night, why holding her while I fall asleep makes me feel so calm. Only to wake up the next morning and hits me in the face like a hammer that ITS ALL STILL HAPPENING.

****.

I’m seeing signs of remorse, but there’s still a lot of “I don’t know” and “it was a blur”. She tells me the sex was bad, I’ve read that’s a common white lie. She’s been slow to reveal details, though I’m getting most of them now I think. I believe she wiped her phone after I confronted her. I can see why she would do this, but I’m not sure if this is a huge red flag or not. She otherwise seems remorseful.

I do have a few questions that I was hoping someone could help with:

I keep hearing about “scripts” that affairs follow. Is there anyone with experience trying to reconcile with a spouse with the affair partner still next door? (The dumbass won’t drop the price on his house, which is still for sale at 10% more per sq ft than every other house that’s sold in our neighborhood recently. He just can’t stand to take a loss because he overpaid. He’s a ****wit.)

Speaking of proximity, how do I deal with daily (or multiple times a day) triggers, and it seems like a huge risk for my wife. Especially when I travel. How do I track her movements while I’m gone?

How do I deal with the fact that she’s being remorseful and honest, but today she told me that she wanted to call him? She didn’t. But she felt that way. It feels honest, and a good step. So I’m glad. But I’m also not sure, I didn’t trust so many red flags that I saw before. What do I trust now?

And more than anything, I just need to know that I’ll be happy again one day. The kids are already picking up on it. I can’t raise three children who imprint that “a good Dad” is one who’s miserable. Like what are the odds here? 50-50 if you’re willing to work? Or … Han Solo navigating an asteroid field?

Anyway, if you managed to defeat that wall of text. Thank you. Here’s your reward: my gratitude for reading the entirety of my pain at a time when I just need somebody to listen.

PS – I am in therapy already, it’s helpful, but only once a week.
 
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#2 ·
The affair isn't over. Exposure is mandatory. So is no-contact, which probably means selling the house and moving since he's a neighbor. You really want to go down this road? Personally I recommend you dump her right away. Even if you are going to reconcile, she's going to fight everything unless you've got her begging to come back.

By the way, none of the actions you've listed "seem remorseful". I'm not sure where you're getting that impression other than wishful thinking.
 
#6 ·
File for divorce. It can be stopped at anytime before the judge signs it as "final". You have to let her know you consider what she has done as unacceptable, even if you want to R.
For me her planning, lying, and the level of deception involved shows that you are her plan B. The paycheck, the babysitter, while he is her party partner. She is not showing anywhere near what would count as true remorse. You can not even think of reconciling while this guy is still in the picture and she has easy access to him while you are working. You are looking at a life filled with doubt, suspicion, and detective work if you stay married. She did this because she wanted to do it and did not care about the affect it would have on you or your family.

Tell her that you love her and because of that, you are going to file for divorce and let her chase the live she really wants. But you cannot be a part of that.

See a lawyer.

PS; Expose to everybody including your family. You will need their support. Don't keep them in the dark.
 
#7 ·
Not that it really matters, but the affair could have been going on much longer than what she's told you. The "open marriage" question might have been her way of asking for after-the-fact permission in order to alleviate her guilt. I would not trust the things that she tells you. Cheaters have a gift for lying, specifically understating the amount of contact they had, or how enjoyable the sex was.

If I were you, I'd tell her to go ahead and call him. She should tell him that she's moving in. You can help her pack up her stuff and bring it over to the neighbor's house. I realize you want her back, but sometimes the most effective way of knocking her back into reality is to see what she's losing. She took you for granted for many, many years. Now she can see what it's like to have deep academic conversations with a musclehead instead an obviously talented writer.

Get a DNA kit to perform testing on the kids. Yes, you're sure that they're yours. But let her see the consequences of living as someone who cannot be trusted. Get an STD test for yourself and let her see the results. Most importantly, contact an attorney so that you become fully acquainted with your rights and how much alimony and child support you're entitled to, as well as what percentage of her 401K you can expect.
 
#8 ·
No contact is absolutely necessary for reconciliation to occur, and that's not going to occur for as long as the POS lives next door. Hell, NC is necessary for the affair to functionally end. So for as long as he's next door, the affair is still on.

Remorse is also necessary for reconciliation, and for as long as she's wanting to reach out to him IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER, she's not remorseful.

She wiped the phone because she's lying about something. Maybe she told him the sex was the best she's ever had, or how much she loves him and can't wait to be his forever, or keeps thinking about his manhood, or whatever. Bottom line -- whatever it is, she doesn't want you to see it because she knows that the truth regarding that something will likely prompt you to pull the plug and file.

After all, even if she does want the marriage to end, she wants to end it on her terms and on her timeline in order to secure a soft a landing as possible. You filing screws all that up for her.

Also, the affair likely began well ahead of the open marriage proposition.

So, like I said...

Immediately file for divorce.

That said, if you want to reconcile, expose the affair to family and friends. Exposure does a pretty good job of clearing the fog. Just be sure to expose out of concern for your marriage and family and not out of vindictiveness.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
#9 · (Edited)
Read my post:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...quick-d-over-r-how-did-go-2.html#post16735834

Then set up an appointment with a divorce lawyer and get filed ASAP. Trying to cling to a dead marriage will make you crazy and hurt your kids more than you know.

The woman you live with is no longer your wife. She wants to be single and have you around to take care of the kids and such while she gets sex from other men. She's not going to stop because all of her needs (and wants) are being fulfilled.

I don't think there is any way you will be able to reconcile with her. That said, your only chance to shake her out of this is a server handing her a court date for her divorce. If she comes back asking for another chance well, that's up to you. If not then you are already headed down the path to healing from her disgusting betrayal.

Let me repeat - your marriage is dead. You may be able to build a new one, if you want to, but this one is over.

And the others are right, she's still screwing him.
 
#109 · (Edited)
I'm sorry to be Captain Hindsight, but a 26-year old man should not get in a serious relationship with a 33-year old woman. You were just starting your prime, and she was well past hers. The good news is you are still in your prime.

Get DNA and STD tests.
Your wife sowed her wild oats with hot bad boy types. Unfortunately those types tend not to provide the stability and security needed for a family. Female fertility starts dropping around age 30. She needed a nester nice guy like you. Those qualities were what she found attractive in you.

Think of her as your teenage daughter who was dating a bad boy you didn’t approve of. She had you for security and stability and the OM for fun. She’s upset because she doesn’t want to lose what you provide. She may “love” you but it’s like loving a family member. The only leverage a dad has over a teenage girl in heat is to let them know that they can be kicked out of the house. (No more security from dad). She will tell daddy whatever it takes to keep her room then sneak out of her window at night.
This relationship had so many negatives right from the beginning. With her biological clock ticking LOUDLY, she grabbed an opportunity to have a kid with a guy who could be "marriage material " even though he was not her type. She was able to suppress her desires for a short time but with douche bag next door, she couldn't restrain herself.

As a mid 30s, never married woman, she probably has been riding the carousel for quite some time before meeting you and has learned quite a few tricks that can ensnare a man. I bet you had very little experience with women and were probably quickly pvssy whipped when she busted her moves on you.

Problem is that if a wife isn't strongly attracted to you, it doesn't take long before her mind starts wondering. You said 2 of her past boyfriends were strong fitness types and then when she finds herself with a neighbor that is her type, she can barely contain herself. Even with your child in her belly, she's fantasizing about POS and QUICKLY starts her action plan to hookup with him.

To top it off, you suppressed your career so she could further hers. This caused her to lose respect for you. In her head, now that she achieved some success in her career, you're beneath her or at best her equal. Women want to look up to their man.

You may find that you're a better man and father without an emotionally draining woman.
 
#11 ·
Understand that the wife you knew and loved is dead. She is no longer the woman you have so many happy memories with.

That wife has been replace by a lying, cheating woman who thinks so little of you and your marriage that she has been f*cking your neighbor and still values him over you.

Mourn the death of your marriage. Mourn the death of the wife you thought you had. But never forget that the woman in your house at the moment is the one who intentionally killed them both with no thought of you.

Almost every betrayed spouse WANTS the wife and marriage they thought they had before infidelity happened. They wish for a way to turn back the clock. One of the hardest things you have to do now is accept the fact that that part of your life has been forever destroyed by her. You cannot get it back.
 
#12 ·
Your words: she denied you love and intimacy for roughly 3 years. The occasional romp during this period. You attributed it to the third baby and the pregnancy weight that she had a hard time losing.

But it was more than that. She had lost the desire for you and what you could offer and gave it to a neighbor.

You put her infatuation and her grooming him [each other] into a month time frame. I suspect that it was going on much longer.

And her being in Academia.....this may not be her first rodeo, after your marriage??

This is what hurts the most. She longed for this affair. She plotted and planned it. She had fantasies about this.

How cruel of her to offer up an open marriage. She has no boundaries.

She has three young children and pulls this crap. Where is the maturity, the common sense. This is letting the VJ rule the big head. You did nothing to deserve this.....from what you have chronicled.

She does not deserve a 2d chance. No way Jose. Why? Because of her age, her education, the fact that she has three babies and a good, loyal husband and she was willing to throw it all away for sex?

Educated women she is.........smart, insightful, intuitive, spiritual, kind, emphatic....NOT. She threw you off the cliff...... using immature cliff-notes tactics.

To no avail. You can fly on your own. I suggest you get away from her. I pity those babies. Take good care of them during your 50 percent custody.
 
#32 ·
Your words: she denied you love and intimacy for roughly 3 years. The occasional romp during this period. You attributed it to the third baby and the pregnancy weight that she had a hard time losing.

But it was more than that. She had lost the desire for you and what you could offer and gave it to a neighbor.

You put her infatuation and her grooming him [each other] into a month time frame. I suspect that it was going on much longer.

And her being in Academia.....this may not be her first rodeo, after your marriage??

This is what hurts the most. She longed for this affair. She plotted and planned it. She had fantasies about this.

How cruel of her to offer up an open marriage. She has no boundaries.

She has three young children and pulls this crap. Where is the maturity, the common sense. This is letting the VJ rule the big head. You did nothing to deserve this.....from what you have chronicled.

She does not deserve a 2d chance. No way Jose. Why? Because of her age, her education, the fact that she has three babies and a good, loyal husband and she was willing to throw it all away for sex?

Educated women she is.........smart, insightful, intuitive, spiritual, kind, emphatic....NOT. She threw you off the cliff...... using immature cliff-notes tactics.

To no avail. You can fly on your own. I suggest you get away from her. I pity those babies. Take good care of them during your 50 percent custody.
I agree 100% . This woman is not remorseful, she's just regrets getting caught. She wants the honor that comes with being a wife and mother but acts like a sleazy wh0re. Grabbing every opportunity to blow this guy, even in your car and probably your house when kids go to bed. Of course a POS "trainer" is going to accept an easy BJ.

The affair has been going on from WAY before she asked about an open marriage. She was just getting tired of hiding and wanted to go public with her man.

Your wife probably has resentment with being main bread winner. Though most women will talk about not caring if there husband makes less and a few outliers will post about how they make more than their husband and are fine with it, the truth is most women don't like the pressure.

Then there is this common theme I've seen many times of women that get lifted up by their husband, forgetting the man that helped make it possible. She just looks at you and wonders if she can do better.

I know you don't want to break up your family and thereby have your 3 kids grow up in a broken home but you wife has betrayed you in a very vile and calculated way.

With this POS living next door and you traveling often, you'll have to live as a freaking detective. That is a life of misery. This is after she denied you for the past three years while she was draining this guy several times a week not counting the sex.

Practically every guy I've known IRL or through their story online has ended up with a hotter and way younger woman. You've been with a woman 7 years older than you for years, when you hook up with one much younger than you, you'll wonder what was wrong with you even considering taking a cheating wife back.
 
#13 ·
1) lawyer - now. You need to find where you stand legally
2) Start getting your money in order
3) Sleep - get plenty of it
4) Eat - you need energy to survive this
5) No Alcohol - just water - you need to be healthy and sharp minded
6) IC - you need professional help
7) Be the best father you can be
8) You fight to get as much custody of the kids as you can (50/50 minimum - I would fight for all custody)
9) 180 now because your mental health depends on it
10) DNA your kids (this is to show her that everything she has done is a lie that needs to be verified)
11) STD test ASAP - your life could depend on it

Then do the following:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.
 
#19 ·
Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.
Great advice, not just this part but your whole post, unfortunately he's posting here because he wants desperately to save his marriage as do most who post in this section so telling them to walk away is something they're just not ready or able to accept.

But maybe it will give him something to think about.

There is nothing to be ashamed about. People who shame you because your wife cheated are not worth your time.
I think it's more of a feeling of embarassment- people will look at him and think "what did he do wrong" or "why didn't he provide for her needs" or "that poor sap never saw it coming" or "some other dude took his woman". Those people may not be "worth his time" but to know that people are thinking these things and talking about you just doesn't give that "feel good" sort of feeling.
 
#14 ·
I am terribly sorry you are going through this. I know this is hard but you need to hang tough for the kids. The best education you can give them is a vision of a REAL man. A man who is NOT the douche neighbor.

First of all, it takes careful planning and lots of effort to have an affair. There is no such thing as "it just happened". Your wife had been going through extraordinary length to pull this off. Her suggestion of "open Marriage" proves she put a lot of thought in to it.

When you have children your self-image will always be through the eyes of your children, at least for most people. I know I started flying straighter after the kids came along. Your wife did this knowing how she would look to her children if it was made public. She was willing to destroy the image of their "mom" for this affair. (No, she is not sorry. No, they're still doing it.)

She needs to know that there are consequences for her action. This is not revenge. This is not just for her benefit, her education. This is for your children's sanity. In my opinion, "My parents had a great marriage but it just didn't work out" messes with the kid's mind more than knowing that their mother is a ****. They will know definitively that this is not THEIR fault. (That's the first thing kids think about. "Was it my fault that my parents divorced?")

It's time for you to be their hero. Be the vision of justice and morality. If that makes your wife look bad, so be it. Go public with the affair to your family and all of her friends and acquaintances. Then go see a lawyer.
 
#15 ·
DEFINITELY do the DNA and STD tests ASAP.

Also throw her out of the house. That's your best chance at reconciliation, because you'll be able to see if she really means it when she says she's remorseful.

Please read my story here for a look at what a truly remorseful spouse looks like. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/32264-hello.html#post434954
 
#17 ·
I'm sorry but it doesn't look good for you, especially since you're not giving her any consequences, I mean she's got nothing to fear, you're still screwing her, sleeping with her and I'll bet you're doing your fair share of crying which is understandable but not the strong front you need to present to her.

You need to create serious doubt in her mind as to whether she'll get a second chance. Go nuclear, tell the world, get pissed off, don't be afraid to lose her or you most certainly will.

For what it's worth you write well.
 
#18 ·
You have no real means to know if this affair went on before she asked you for an open marriage or if there have been other affairs in the time you had problems in your marriage.

The thing you know is that your wife wanted to get your (maybe retroactive) approval of having an affair which means she planned it. That she had sex with you was damage control and a way to throw you off her tail. She lied when she asked you, she lied afterwards and you can assume that she is lying now (at least lies of ommission), because why should she tell the (whole) truth? Trickle truth is damage control, minimizing is damage control, not remembering is damage control, the sex being bad is damage control (really bad one, because it makes her look even worse, why continue an affair if the sex is bad?). She seems to not want a D (at least for now), you are the safety net.

If you want to be the safety net and babysitter that takes care of the kids so she has time to eff around and you thinking about that every time she stays late in the office or when you see your neighbor then stay in the marriage. No consequences for her.

If you want to live a life without or at least a lot less of any of that go for D.

P.S.
There is nothing to be ashamed about. People who shame you because your wife cheated are not worth your time.
 
#20 ·
Hi there JayOwen,

I am so very, very sorry that you are joining us in this place.

Exposure – if the affair has ended (so far that appears to be true) is that necessary? I want all her people to know, and none of mine. I’m so ashamed that my wife has done this to me, I know my friends will be supportive, but I just can’t feel lesser in their eyes. And my family, God. They LOVE this woman so much. I swear, they’d adopt her if they could. They’re either going to get their guts ripped out, or my sister is going to try to beat her ass. I can’t deal with all that stress right now.
Firstly, none of this is on you. The shame, the humiliation - it isn't yours, you did none of this. Whether your marriage was in a good place or not, your wife made the decision to have an affair. She had a multitude of other options available to her to address her unhappiness/dissatisfaction - far healthier and more moral options. Anyone who has gone through anything like this, is already on your side. And anyone who hasn't got a clue and decides it's OK to sit in judgement - well, fvck 'em. You tell whoever you will need support from, and that includes your family. If you need to expose more widely than that to ensure the affair ends or doesn't start up again, then you do that too. It isn't about being vindictive, it's about protecting yourself and your family.

Hi all,
What do I trust now?
You trust yourself. You already knew that something was wrong before you had proof. So just keep being open to whatever your intuition is telling you.

I believe that with enough love and commitment almost anything can achieved. You're going to hear a lot of pretty harsh stuff from people here at TAM over the few days. Their intentions are good, but I'm going to say it again, listen to YOUR heart and YOUR intuition.

Be strong.
 
#26 ·
Hi there JayOwen,

I am so very, very sorry that you are joining us in this place.


Firstly, none of this is on you. The shame, the humiliation - it isn't yours, you did none of this. Whether your marriage was in a good place or not, your wife made the decision to have an affair. She had a multitude of other options available to her to address her unhappiness/dissatisfaction - far healthier and more moral options.

You trust yourself. You already knew that something was wrong before you had proof. So just keep being open to whatever your intuition is telling you.

I believe that with enough love and commitment almost anything can achieved. You're going to hear a lot of pretty harsh stuff from people here at TAM over the few days. Their intentions are good, but I'm going to say it again, listen to YOUR heart and YOUR intuition.

Be strong.

Believe it or not there are couples who survive adultery. Reconciliation is incredibly hard (as is divorce) but if BOTH of you are completely committed reconciliation is very possible. I know of couples who have really put the work in & have ended-up with a MORE committed, open & honest communication, deep & loving loyal marriage.

The thing I kept in my mind like a mantra is "I have all the time in the world to decide what I want!". The cheating spouce however does NOT!! She has to choose RIGHT NOW, 100% what she is going to do. From what you say it sounds like she wants YOU, her family, her husband, her life. My other mantra "Hope for the best but plan for the worst!". You don't have to blindly trust her & it's completely natural not to.

She needs to be a completely open book. She doesn't get privacy. She doesn't get passwords on any of her devices. She doesn't get 'girls night out'. She NEVER gets to say "You should be over this by now!" NEVER!!


I've been in you situation. It's the worst pain I've ever known. Death of loved ones, chronic illness, even cancer doesn't compare. The horrible truth is...The person who broke you is the best one to help you heal. There's a free online book "How to help your spouce heal from an affair" by Linda McDonald (check my spelling). Your wife should be reading & studying it. If she can't stick to it then you should give-up.

I joined forums when I was in agony, loosing my mind. I found it a tremendous help. I learnt the new lexicon...gaslighting, trickle truth, rewriting marital history, cognitive dissonance etc.

I learnt all about "The Cheaters Script" that many members talk about. Often much of it is true. Sometimes it's all true. Sometimes...not so much!

This isn't going to be a popular statement on this forum but there's also the "BS (betrayed spouce) Script". I'm a BS. I truly know all about the absolute devastation & agony. I'm hurt, bitter & bloody angry! My love story has been shattered. The love of my life destroyed me. He turned into 'Mr Alien'. I never thought that he could be so cruel....However he DID NOT do half the things the "BS Script" predicts!!

The BS script...

* It's impossible for affair sex to be bad.
* It's impossible for the cheat to tell the truth about anything!
* The cheat can't deeply regret their actions & wish they had a time machine.
* You're always 2nd place 'chump'
* She can't possibly love you...it's all an act.
* She's still having sex with him (or wants to) or wants to shag every other man in your post code!!
* The affair her is the REAL her, everything before & after is all lies!!

To be honest my marriage & reconciliation is a terrible example! I'm one of those BS who needed to hear most of the standard "Kick him out. Tell everyone & anyone. Punish!! Attack!! Destroy!! Scorched earth actions!". That doesn't mean it's true for everyone & every adulterous marriage. I firmly believe that good people sometimes do horrific things. Only you know your wife, your life.

I just finished reading a couple of pages of "Burn the witch!!" & "Don't be pathetic! Kick her to the curb & make the w**re suffer!". You are a FAMILY. Some people can't ever even consider 2nd chances. Only you know if you are one of them. As I said, you have all the time in the world. You can file for divorce tomorrow or in a few years time. You are in control.

What do you want? (Other than a time machine & for it to of NEVER happened!)

I watched a YouTube lecture by a famous expert (can't remember her name) she said, "Staying is the new shame!". Reading your thread makes me feel like most of the members here agree. There is NO SHAME in working on your marriage or preserving your family. If your wife is truly sorry & is willing to do all that you need to heal THERE IS NO SHAME IN STAYING.

There is also no shame in knowing that you can never handle this & divorcing.

I know that my family will NEVER forgive & accept my H again if they know the truth. They are also very emotionally fragile at the moment. I chose not to expose except to a couple of friends....it's changed my (& my husbands) relationship with them.

Whatever you choose I wish you all the best. I'm so sorry that you know this agony.
 
#24 ·
JayOwen,

Sorry this happened to you, it's not that you were stupid, but that you trusted and believed in your WW, that's a positive trait. It's not your fault that your WW abused your trust.

A "trainer" ugh, what repulsive human beings in many cases, they walk around my gym with a coffee cup or staring at their cell phones, every so often they get fired for getting involved with a "client".

You or the OM needs to move far away, you cannot endure living next to this creep or you will go out of your mind.

Gather every contact you can of the OMs, parents, siblings, uncles, grandparents, facebook, linkedin, church, work, husbands of women he trains and expose all and once in a firestorm of exposure. Do it all at once and without warning or threats. Posters on telephone poles are not out of the question warning of a public menace. Hiroshima.

Speak with OMW to find out if there are other OW you can expose to their BHs.

Expose your WW in like fashion. Nagasaki.

BTW your post was very readable it followed a timeline and was broken up into digestable paragraphs.

Tamat
 
#27 ·
Jay,

So what you have now is lover boy still living next door and you travelling for work and your wife still "grieving" or "pining" for him. Do you really believe she is going to stay away from him????

You have been given good advice and from someone who also got the open marriage request, but who reconciled but with different circumstances than you, I am telling you to go "nuclear" on her and file for divorce immediately. As you have been told, you can stoop in at any time you want to,

And in your case, with him next door at least until his house sells, you need to tell her if you get this far, that before you stop the divorce, which depends on her actions, not words, she will pass a polygraph test verifying that she has had no personal or physical contact with him.

And she should be offering, without you saying a word, to account for every ****ing minute of her day and night with you.

You also need to install VAR's in her car AND your home. That will tell you very quickly if she is still in contact with him.

And lastly, you need a WRITTEN timeline, telling her that it better be complete and accurate and that if the polygraph proves it to be untrue that you are done.

Right now, she has not only cheated but probably done it either in your home , in your car, and within earshot of you next door. About as disrespectful as it gets.

You cannot control her but you can control you and take the decisions away from her. You do not want to be "reasonable" in her eyes and let her sit in the fence grieving the losss of her fun, and play what is called the "pick me game".
 
#29 ·
Thank you all, I am considering everything.

I do believe she wants to reconcile. And while I could see it down the road, I now realize I was probably going about it the wrong way though. Oddly, this evening in exposing to everyone (both her people and mine) I started to feel at peace. She is gone to me, and though I miss what I had, I've been through enough breakups to know that it's over.

I do believe that she's not slept with him in the past 72 hours (ha) but I think all this is spot on, it was only a matter of time before a relapse. I found it odd how quickly she was willing to cut it off, took it as a sign of her love for me. But if she built up to this for 18 months (at least) planned it for months, hid it for weeks ... it wasn't a mistake, was it? It wasn't getting drunk and making out -- not that that would have been okay.

Even if it was not malicious, she was powerless to stop herself, especially now she's hurting and if I'm not around. I know this sounds naive -- but there's not really a chance that she has like a brain tumor or a psychotic break, right? She's just so unlike the woman I married and have our first children with.

And so now, I have an appointment on Friday to start the filing. I hope we can be good to each other through the porcess. I have no proof other than her admission and she will now be ultra careful if she does carry on, hopefully that will not affect things.

So we'll see.

In the meantime... I don't know. Clean the house I guess? She's away on work -- no idea if the dip**** is with her. I'm starting to not care. She was pissed that I exposed to everyone. Hopefully that passes, I really hope she is not losing it to the point she might start to use the kids.

I told my friends. They're supportive, I don't know why I ever hesitated -- it's a good group of guys. I have people at least, I now realize.
 
#35 ·
Jay,

You can bet your 401K that is she is still telling you that despite what has happened that she wants to call her OM, that this is NOT over. Do not believe a word she says to you, and do not let the fear of her not being amicable taint your actions. You be amicable as long as she takes what you decide and not one second longer. She is not the victim here my friend and you do not let her play it.

This OM has just had a ****fest anytome your wife could get free and he is not going to give that up as long as your wife is still willing to talk to him. And she is going to talk to him. Of course she may appear she wants to reconcile. With him living next door and you travelling she knows you cannot catch her again unless you get lucky.

My bet is the next move will be a burner phone.

Jay, she is sorry she was stupid enough to walk out of the house with you there and get caught. That is all she is sorry about other than it may be starting to hit her that you are not going to accept what she has done.

Like someone said, you have no real options here that are the basis for any reconciliation
(1) she is obviously still "pining" for him and is probably less than a three minute walk from his bed
(2) you have no way to track her with this proximity
(3) you cannot trust anything she says

Do not get bogged down in this "fog" bull ****. She is in no fog. She planned this all along, it went on for longer than you know, and she had absol;utterly no intention of stopping it. You will never have a moments peace with him next door. She should be crawling across the floor BEGGING you. Instead she is telling you she misses him.

You did the absolute correct thing exposing this and if you can you ought to expose it to his ex wife if you can find her so that she is not duped into getting back with him since he might try that because you blew up his daily blow job fun.

If your wife is calmly walking around going about her business and just telling you she is sorry you are making a big mistake if you even consider R right now.

Play a little game and if you even get into that conversation tell her she will take a polygraph every quarter for a year and just watch her reaction. Even if you have no intention of doing it she will resemble Casper The Ghost knowing there is absolutely no chance she will fool you again anytime in the foreseeable future.

Remember, you CAN stop a divorce any time you want to.
 
#31 ·
I’m seeing signs of remorse, but there’s still a lot of “I don’t know” and “it was a blur”. She tells me the sex was bad, I’ve read that’s a common white lie. She’s been slow to reveal details, though I’m getting most of them now I think. I believe she wiped her phone after I confronted her. I can see why she would do this, but I’m not sure if this is a huge red flag or not. She otherwise seems remorseful and checking off all the boxes.

It's not remourse but regret at being caught.

I do have a few questions that I was hoping someone could help with:

Exposure – if the affair has ended (so far that appears to be true) is that necessary? I want all her people to know, and none of mine. I’m so ashamed that my wife has done this to me, I know my friends will be supportive, but I just can’t feel lesser in their eyes. And my family, God. They LOVE this woman so much. I swear, they’d adopt her if they could. They’re either going to get their guts ripped out, or my sister is going to try to beat her ass. I can’t deal with all that stress right now.

Exposure is to end the affair. If they have contact it will continue. You didn't cause this but you won't be the first to help hide their affair and live to regret it.

Speaking of proximity, how do I deal with daily (or multiple times a day) triggers, and it seems like a huge risk for my wife. Especially when I travel. How do I track her movements while I’m gone?

You can't stop her from seeing him if she wants to but you can take yourself out of the infidelity. Set boundaries and stick with them or you'll linger in imbo hell


How do I deal with the fact that she’s being remorseful and honest, but today she told me that she wanted to call him? She didn’t. But she felt that way. It feels honest, and a good step. So I’m glad. But I’m also not sure, I didn’t trust so many red flags that I saw before. What do I trust now?

You can't trust anything about her at this time. She's addicted to the affair sex and wants to continue.

And more than anything, I just need to know that I’ll be happy again one day. The kids are already picking up on it. I can’t raise three children who imprint that “a good Dad” is one who’s miserable. Like what are the odds here? 50-50 if you’re willing to work? Or … Han Solo navigating an asteroid field?

Anyway, if you managed to defeat that wall of text. Thank you. Here’s your reward: my gratitude for reading the entirety of my pain at a time when I just need somebody to listen.
Don't jump into a reconciliation with taking time to think this through. It's the worst thing you can do. It says I'll do anything to save our marriage even if you continue to screw him.

Your fear and weakness at this time are your worst enemies.
 
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