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Infidelity and verbal abuse

8K views 47 replies 17 participants last post by  totalfive21 
#1 ·
I am now four years out from D-Day of my husband's EA. According to him it was just an EA, and that's all I have evidence of, but who knows. We "reconciled" -- or he rugswept and I didn't push it. We have a young son, which is the primary reason I didn't want to divorce.

I have mentioned this in some of my past posts -- my husband has a history of being verbally abusive toward me. It happens when he gets angry about something, not like every day put downs or anything, but when it does occur he can be downright vicious. His episodes occurred much more frequently when our son was a baby and a toddler. He often perceived that I was not vigilant enough or not caring for the child correctly, which set him off. Now that our son is a bit older, it happens less. But it still does occur, for example if we travel or go on a vacation he's in prime mode to attack me verbally over anything.

I think during those difficult years with his more frequent outbursts, I started to emotionally detach from him. This may have led to his EA.

Even though I have been resentful over the rugsweeping of the EA, part of me has felt that it's still worth it to stay in the marriage because of my son, who knows nothing about that infidelity. When it comes to the verbal abuse, however, my son is aware because he sees it. My son would still be devastated if I broke up the family over this, but perhaps more understanding in the long run. I don't want to bring up the infidelity to him.

I guess I am posting to see if others out there have experience with this link between infidelity and abusive personalities. Infidelity is certainly a form of abuse itself. Do others have experience with the WS also being abusive in other ways?

Thank you for reading.
 
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#2 ·
I think during those difficult years with his more frequent outbursts, I started to emotionally detach from him. This may have led to his EA.
Scuse me???? WTF is this - something YOU did led to HIS EA?!?!?! That's bu11sh1t.

Get your head out of the sand here woman - get rid of this guy. He's an a$$ and a jerk. Staying together for your son is an EXCUSE because you don't want to do the hard thing, the thing you KNOW would be better for everyone involved. You may think your son knows nothing about the infidelity but usually they know WAY WAY more than we think. By staying, you're teaching your son that it's OK to be a doormat and rugsweep an affair!!
 
#4 ·
I have to agree with Hope. Your son is an excuse because divorce would be hard, so you convince yourself it's best.

I mean, what if your son was devastated that he couldn't stay at his friends house with no parents around?

Are other decisions made based on what would "devastate" your son?

You're the parent, and you've demonstrated that this is marriage. Maybe he'll treat his wife the same way.
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#20 ·
There are two things you can do; one more effective than the other. The first is to buy a recorder, keep it charged, and keep it in your pocket, always. Any time he is in 'that mood' (you know what I'm talking about), turn it on. If you use it often enough, start downloading the tapes onto a permanent recording. Keep it somewhere not at home.

The second is to buy a little pocket notebook and keep it in your pocket and write down what he says and date it. Everything. Keep a good record so that anyone else looking at it could tell you are being very thorough. If he ever says 'I never said that,' just pull out the notebook, find the conversation, and read it back to him.

Now, that's not going to fix your abuse. But it can address that one issue in it.

As for the verbal abuse. Here's what my IC told me to do, and it REALLY works. The next time he becomes angry, rude, or loud, calmly say "I don't deserve to be talked to like this" and turn around and leave the room; take your kids with you. Go do something else for 15 minutes, then return. If he tries to bring it up again while being decent, stay; if he tries to ramp it up again, don't even say a word, just LEAVE. Stay gone 30 minutes. Come back. Rinse and repeat.

You may have to escalate it. I've suggested the following next steps, if they just don't get it and have to keep having the last word or just wait for you to get back so they can berate you or put you in your place:

Leave the house for 30 minutes
Leave the house for 2 hours (drive somewhere)
Pack an overnight back and leave for the night
Pack for a few days and leave for 2 nights
Leave for a week
Leave for a month

Now, remember, he's likely never seen you like this, so he may panic and up the ante to get you back under control. Only do what you feel safe doing, and wait for the next opportunity.

But if you make it clear you will no longer be allowing him to disrespect you, especially in front of your child, he'll have a choice to make: LEARN to respect you, or observe as you slowly file out of his life.

btw, it really does work. I've had to do it a few times, and now I no longer even have to say anything: he treats me poorly, I give him 'that look,' I turn away without a word, and he's stuck by himself. His rate of raging at me has gone from once or twice a month to maybe once every few months.
 
#8 ·
When a marriage is in trouble, each spouse has 4 choices.
- do nothing
- work on it
- cheat
- divorce

The choice they make is 100% on them, NOT on their spouse. If someone chooses to cheat rather than do one of the oth er 3 choices, it's THEIR choice.

The state of the marriage is attributable to both spouses, and they both have a responsibility to work on the marriage and make it better. That DOES NOT include cheating. And it doesn't include drawing back emotionally, or anything else that people tend to do when things aren't going the way they want them to. But for one partner to use the others human failings as a reason to cheat is REPREHENSIBLE.
 
#10 ·
When a marriage is in trouble, each spouse has 4 choices.

- do nothing

- work on it

- cheat

- divorce



The choice they make is 100% on them, NOT on their spouse. If someone chooses to cheat rather than do one of the oth er 3 choices, it's THEIR choice.



The state of the marriage is attributable to both spouses, and they both have a responsibility to work on the marriage and make it better. That DOES NOT include cheating. And it doesn't include drawing back emotionally, or anything else that people tend to do when things aren't going the way they want them to. But for one partner to use the others human failings as a reason to cheat is REPREHENSIBLE.


The marriage in trouble is 95% of the problem. Those 4 choices are just the last 5%.
 
#11 ·
I should clarify that I do not believe that my pulling back emotionally was an excuse for his EA. Totally agree with Hope and others that his EA is his own doing, his own choice, and he cannot blame it on me or my behavior.

He is someone who is deeply flawed regardless. His abusive behavior demonstrated that well before the EA. Then he starts getting some attention "kibbles" (Chumplady term) from another woman, and his flawed character responds and acts on it.
 
#14 ·
I suspect he doesn't actually remember the details of his outbursts if they're infrequent. They're likely emotional in nature and we're not rationally thinking when we behave emotionally and aren't as likely to file the details the same way.

I know my W HATES to upset me in any way - codependency, rather than my issues - and I don't mind honestly responding in an upset fashion if I'm upset. When you have a codependent / avoidant person and a straight forward person in a situation in which they disagree, then you have situations where both parties recall the situation differently and respond differently.

I'm not saying H isn't a jerk. I honestly don't know. And he may be abusive emotionally at times, but some of it might be your reluctance to have disagreements.

Anyway, my point - that I somehow lost on the train here ;) - is that men and women often think differently. I am usually NEVER an emotional thinker. So I simply don't "store" the emotional content in my memories. I think that's VERY different from how many women remember emotion.


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#16 ·
I am now four years out from D-Day of my husband's EA. According to him it was just an EA, and that's all I have evidence of, but who knows. We "reconciled" -- or he rugswept and I didn't push it. We have a young son, which is the primary reason I didn't want to divorce.

I have mentioned this in some of my past posts -- my husband has a history of being verbally abusive toward me. It happens when he gets angry about something, not like every day put downs or anything, but when it does occur he can be downright vicious. His episodes occurred much more frequently when our son was a baby and a toddler. He often perceived that I was not vigilant enough or not caring for the child correctly, which set him off. Now that our son is a bit older, it happens less. But it still does occur, for example if we travel or go on a vacation he's in prime mode to attack me verbally over anything.
This does sound like emotional abuse. Can you give specifics of his attacks?

I think during those difficult years with his more frequent outbursts, I started to emotionally detach from him. This may have led to his EA.
He carries the responsibility of his actions. That said, we can predict that with disconnection will come affair,divorce or both. Your responsibility is to maintain your end, and if you can't, then it could be grounds for separation.

I've been abused before and it was my responsibility to leave. Otherwise, the pattern persists. Abusèrs Can change, but that requires work from him and you. Absent of his effort to change, expect no change. Then it is up to you whether to accept this behavior.

Even though I have been resentful over the rugsweeping of the EA, part of me has felt that it's still worth it to stay in the marriage because of my son, who knows nothing about that infidelity. When it comes to the verbal abuse, however, my son is aware because he sees it. My son would still be devastated if I broke up the family over this, but perhaps more understanding in the long run. I don't want to bring up the infidelity to him.

I guess I am posting to see if others out there have experience with this link between infidelity and abusive personalities. Infidelity is certainly a form of abuse itself. Do others have experience with the WS also being abusive in other ways?

Thank you for reading.
What about you?

What about your feelings?

Your family will probably be a lot more understAnding than you expect. If they are not, do you accept abuse? I promise you that your family wont verbally attack you.

Choose to no longer be a victim and see where that leads you. There arw a lot of skills you can use to disarm him, assuming he is not physical. That assumes he is able to be changed
Good luck.
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#17 ·
This does sound like emotional abuse. Can you give specifics of his attacks?



He carries the responsibility of his actions. That said, we can predict that with disconnection will come affair,divorce or both. Your responsibility is to maintain your end, and if you can't, then it could be grounds for separation.

I've been abused before and it was my responsibility to leave. Otherwise, the pattern persists. Abusèrs Can change, but that requires work from him and you. Absent of his effort to change, expect no change. Then it is up to you whether to accept this behavior.



What about you?

What about your feelings?

Your family will probably be a lot more understAnding than you expect. If they are not, do you accept abuse? I promise you that your family wont verbally attack you.

Choose to no longer be a victim and see where that leads you. There arw a lot of skills you can use to disarm him, assuming he is not physical. That assumes he is able to be changed
Good luck.
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Thanks for this, and to all who have responded. As for specifics of the attacks, the worst were ones when my son was very young, when he indirectly threatened to hit me ("shut your mouth or I'll shut it for you!") after I dared to defend myself by arguing back. Months later, when I reminded him of those words, he did not recall at all.

I do not feel physically threatened in any way now, but that doesn't mean the verbal attacks don't hurt. More recently, the situations have involved getting lost while trying to follow directions somewhere, him not liking hotels I have chosen, etc. His behavior has included the dagger-eyed looks intended just for me, muttering under his breath that I don't "heed him" and calling me a "b%&#ch" through gritted teeth and a snarl in his voice. Dragging out the anger over at least two days, not apologizing, and him being the one who gets to decide when the episode is over (i.e. when he starts acting normal again).

Regarding suggestions of counseling, he ruled it out completely after I suggested it after the EA. I went by myself a few times, but didn't connect with the therapist. I am thinking of going again to someone else, just me, to help sort out my feelings.

Agree with you that my family would not hold anything against me, but I don't have much family to speak of. Parents are deceased, one sister who lives out of state and has her own immediate family. Really I am speaking of my son not wanting to be from a broken home. Of course I agree that being divorced is better than him being around this kind of treatment. But as I mentioned, it happens infrequently. Another angle to my feelings is the lingering resentment about the EA four years ago. On top of dealing with emotional outbursts.

You asked about my feelings. I am truly "torn" about what to do. On the one hand I love my husband. I want to help him get help. I want to forgive him for the EA. On the other, I know I deserve better. I am not even thinking about or referring to another relationship in the future. By "better" I mean living in peace and freedom and ending the hurt/resentment over the EA. I came to TAM to vent my feelings and bounce ideas off of members. Thank you for reading.
 
#23 ·
You are doing your son ZERO FAVORS by staying with this man! What a horrible example he is being subjected to! The man ( and I use that term loosely) is not worth your effort, and your son deserves better.
 
#37 ·
Update -- now we're in one of those periods that H either consciously or unconsciously times to a T. He is no longer angry as he was two weekends ago...overcame that episode but without apologizing for the vicious lashing-out at me. He is attentive, listening, sweet, etc. I swear it's bipolar on his part. He has family-of-origin (FOO) issues for sure, including a family history of mental illness, yet is a functioning working member of society and, in my opinion, cannot use his background as an excuse for his sometimes explosive behavior.

So I, like so many others, are left with lingering resentment. Over both the past infidelity AND the repeated incidents of verbal abuse. Like "Bad Memory" diagnosed, my fear that he will lash out at me has kept me from pushing the idea of counseling for him, either for the past EA or for his own issues.

I am financially independent (at least to get by okay) because of my job, which I would never give up. Thank goodness I have that. I would not enjoy the same lifestyle I do now if I got divorced, which is fine with me. I'm thinking of all the disruption for my son though. A messy divorce, a potential move to a different house/neighborhood, a potential restraining order, etc. I actually calculate if I should stay until my son is in college.

Even with all these considerations, part of me still loves my husband.

Thank you again for reading.
 
#40 ·
I'm thinking of all the disruption for my son though. A messy divorce, a potential move to a different house/neighborhood, a potential restraining order, etc. I actually calculate if I should stay until my son is in college.
Instead, why not calculate the likelihood that your son will grow up to be as abusive as his dad? Every day this is the only home he knows, he becomes more likely to do so.

Your son needs to grow up in a home without abuse, control, anger, manipulation; we become what we see.

I, too, stayed out of fear of 'dealing with' the issues of leaving. Now my DD26 will have to deal with the issues of staying that have become part of her now, for the rest of her life.

If nothing else, you separating will give him a reason to finally look at himself in the mirror and ask himself if he wants to change to earn you two back.

But if you stay, the only certainty you have is that things will only get worse.
 
#38 ·
This is a pattern. One that will continue into eternity. I've been there...the explosion, followed by silent treatment, followed by no apology once they start talking again, sweet, then explosion again. Lather, rinse, repeat. FOREVER.

You are doing your son a total disservice by staying with this man. He is being shown a sick relationship dynamic, as well as how to be abusive to their spouse. Not to mention him having to deal with the blowups. NO child deserves to live this way. If you wont end it for you, end it for HIM.
 
#42 ·
Many on here want the horrible husband, the one who had an affair to fade and let the Good Man in him take charge. Where is this guy?

I hear that he had an emotional affair. This type of affair requires love, compassion, listening skills. It requires a face capable of smiling. Who are we talking about here?

There is no alter ego with this WH. He has one head. He is not a Janus entity. Does he have a split personality? Yea, yea, that's it.

The head that he wears directly centered on his shoulders is the only one that shows up for Role Call, the only one that shows up for dinner.

Wishing and hoping he will get the message and change into the better SMURF is "mere" WISHFUL THINKING.

Some people can change. Some people can change because "it is in them" to do so.

This guy is no Chameleon, He is a lizard of a different genre. I see him now, he is a Gila Monster.

Let him go and latch onto some other poor women.

YOU, Dear OP.......get a man who loves you and your son.

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#47 ·
Working on it, blue. I've been implementing some boundaries and things are improving. I'm luckier than most women here in that my H really does want to be married to me and will put up with pretty much everything. It's just me who has to learn to stand up for myself. You know, the 'it's all in my head' thing. Every time I've braved myself and stood my ground, he just says 'ok.'
 
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