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He forgave me??!

25K views 139 replies 23 participants last post by  EllaSuaveterre 
#1 · (Edited)
For Background's sake, from a previous post.

I got involved with a man online. I honestly cannot remember what made me like him, as looking back, he was physically and emotionally repulsive. He was an abusive monster who had the face of an evil garden gnome. At the time, the butterflies for my husband were fading for the first time, and so I thought I was falling out of love. The OM offered me a new life and a place to stay. He said he was very rich, but in hindsight I am sure he was lying. The relationship lasted for a month, and I was kicking and screaming the entire way. I didn't want to be in the relationship, but at the same time I was convinced it was over with my husband and, being that I am mentally ill, disabled, and generally incapable of living on my own, I was loath to give up my safety net.

The whole thing was shameful and terrible. At one point I was convinced that if I moved in with him, he was going to kill me or use me as a sex slave, or both. He had threatened me with an ultimatum and said either I get on a plane NOW and move in with him or terrible things would happen to me. My plan was to get on the plane and if he killed me, then I deserved it for cheating. My mother found out two days before I was to get in the plane, and took me to the mental hospital. It took me MONTHS to realize he was abusive and that being afraid of the OM was not normal. It took me months after that to realize that the entire time at any point I could have refused to do the things the OM demanded of me. I really felt like I had no choice, and it fills me with shame to realize I could have said no, and deplorably chose not to.

I confessed to my husband in the hospital. I kept a diary while I was in the hospital, and I told him of the affair and let him read my diary. It was the only time I'd ever seen him cry. He refused to sleep in our empty apartment the entire time I was in the hospital. It is to my further shame that he had to handle his recovery mostly on his own. I had been diagnosed with cptsd and abandonment issues, and was working through trying to process what I had done and why. I was in the hospital's day program for the severely disturbed for months. I will forever regret not being there for my husband during the first year post-A. I want to make it up to him as much as I can for the rest of forever with tender, loving gestures.

We were in the middle of an empty aisle at Target a few minutes ago and I suddenly had a flashback to my A, so I did what I always do when that happens and went over to my husband and put my arms around him and said, "I'm sorry if I say this too much. If you want me to mention it less, just let me know, because I don't want to upset you with painful memories, but... I'm sorry... I'm sorry for..." Here I struggled to verbalize my wrongdoing. When I apologize for it I have trouble coming out and saying that I cheated on him, so often I just apologize for "what happened in 2014" and I know perfectly well that that isn't good enough. I have to say it.

"I'm so sorry for being unfaithful to you in 2014."

He replied, "it's okay"

I removed my face from his shoulder and said, "No, no its not. It's not okay. It devastates me that I could have hurt you that way, that I DID hurt you, and I'm so, so sorry. I love you so much and I will never hurt you like that again."

He said, "it's okay. I forgive you."

I said, "Really? Thank you so much. I will spend the rest of my life making it up to you, if that's even possible."

And to my absolute shock, he said, "You've already more than made up for it"

I couldn't thank him enough. Holy gods how it that even possible?! To MORE THAN make up for infidelity?!! I'm speechless. Of course, I'll continue trying to earn his love and be the woman he deserves regardless of whether he forgives me or not, because he deserves that always. But holy cow!!
 
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#2 ·
Forgive yourself... it's time.
 
#3 ·
I was on SurvivingInfidelity for a month or two this year, before they banned me. In general, it was thought that I was not remorseful enough. I must have either changed a lot since then, or the atmosphere on TAM is drastically different (I suspect the latter) because the first comment here was "Forgive yourself". I am unsure whether or not I deserve to forgive myself. Isn't the whole point behind infidelity recovery that you (as a Wayward) irreversibly damaged your spouse and should therefore be prepared to care for him physically, emotionally, and psychologically for, bare minimum, 2-5 years? I got the general impression that while Waywards should never allow feelings of shame to prevent them from doing anything the Betrayed Spouse needs you to do to facilitate their healing, to relinquish that shame completely makes the Wayward less "safe" for their spouse.

Still, I think, maybe, forgiving myself might be what my BH wants me to do. I've always appeared to trigger harder than he has when I see something that reminds me of the OM. (like the type of religious jewelry he wore, or seeing someone who looks like him, or hearing certain phrases that he used to say) I once had a nightmare- last year or so- that I woke up in mine and my husband's bed, but I rolled over to see HIM there!! I woke up screaming and in total panic. Yet it would be unthinkably insensitive to assume I was the more damaged party of the two of us, because whether I realized it or not, I made a choice. My BH did not invite this into our lives. I did. That's still so freaking painful for me to confront.
 
#8 ·
Ella, you are a kind soul...

We are all different and timeframes are an average experience based on many things, it's not a clinical cookie-cutter.

For every acceptance your husband has found forgiveness, he was ready... I am sure nobody scheduled this for him, it came when it did for the reasons I would gather simply because he was ready for it, he had come to his peace.

By what you share, I believe he also wants this for you... you are indeed fortunate.

He did not invite this into his life, but he is willing to work with it... give him the faith and confidence he knows and accepts what he is doing as you work to strengthen your relationship. We all have weaknesses, your husband too, but his dedication to you is not one of them so have faith in yourself that you are seen as you are, valuable in your dedication to never make those same mistakes again... I am certain your husband sees that in you or he would probably not be with you today.

When you begin to feel that calm drift away, immediately stop and take a long, deep breath and release it slowly acknowledging the value of every moment you have spent loving your husband, then take one more deep breath and release it slowly acknowledging the love your husband has shown you... repeat until the calm has enveloped you with the feelings you know and trust.

This will help you build the self-forgiveness you need...
 
#5 · (Edited)
In your case, there are at least six entities from which you need to seek forgiveness from for an act of marital faithlessness and infidelity:

(1) Your husband, who felt and experienced the pangs of marital betrayal and an overt violation of the mutual wedding vows that you pledged to him

(2) provided that you have them, your children

(3) your families, who may have become aware of all of your insipid exploits

(4) your close friends, and for obviously the very same reasons!

(5) Yourself, because if you fail to forgive yourself, then how can anyone else extend that forgiveness to you?

(6) But even more importantly, to God Himself! And while He may be the easier there is to seek forgiveness from, without it, you may never learn how to seek the forgiveness of any of the others, including yourself!

But whatever you do or however you handle it, "less is more" and sincerity and contrition is better shown through heartfelt actions moreso than the verbose, perhaps insecure, continuance of sheer words!
 
#7 ·
I would say that your spontaneous apology was very meaningful to your husband. Too often, apologies are given after the wronged party demands them. These apologies are not worth as much. I think he probably appreciated it more than you know, and downplayed its significance. I think you should do this every so often for the rest of your life. It can't hurt.
 
#11 ·
Well, I say that at every possible opportunity, dozens of times a day.

"I love your smile"
"I love the love in your eyes when you look at me"
"I love your sweetness."
"I love how dedicated you are in your work"
"I'm so proud to be married to someone as intelligent and capable as you!"
"I love everything you are"

After 7 years of perpetual I love yous, I've got to be specific so they don't grow stale, y'know?
 
#12 ·
Have you two ever discussed the falling out of love feelings that you were having?
 
#13 ·
Yes, many times. As it turns out, those feelings fading are very natural. It's what happens when you live with somebody for a couple years and get used to life with them. You start to take them for granted if you don't make an effort to appreciate them and to demonstrate that appreciation in tangible and quantifiable ways. In other words, never stop wooing them. Never stop complimenting them, making an effort to impress them, doing things to make their life easier, etc. The feelings will come flooding back, and they have. And then they faded again. And then we brought them back. So on and so forth.
 
#14 ·
While my wife has not had an affair..she does done some pretty horrible things in our past (as have i). Typically financial stuff....lending HUGE amounts of money to a couple of her relatives, after we had disscussed, and i thought, decided not to do so.

She continued to beat herself up for years after i forgave her. The problem became, seeing her in this pain, drove me nuts. When she hurts, i hurt.

Your husband has done his part in forgivig you...your part is accepting it...
 
#15 ·
Work on living your love for him. Words don't mean much. You lied and snuck around for a long time, so now your words don't hold much water. As long as he sees you working on yourself, owning your sh!t, being transparent, being the best mom you can be then...then...he will start to feel safe around you.

And have the courage to be vulnerable. When you have the courage to hand your fears and desires to him, he will see that you want him to take them and do what he needs to do to meet your needs. It's not rocket science. The biggest reason you cheated was you no longer opened up your vulnerability to him. He didn't know what he needed to do to make you happy, and vice versa.
 
#22 ·
I think you are going to be fine, Ella. :)

Why did you get married so young?
 
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#23 ·
First and foremost because I fell in love, but there was always this undertone of "Find someone to look after you when we're too old" from my parents. I could tell they were really grateful I had found someone willing to provide for me and take care of me. I have cerebral palsy and a host of psychological issues to boot, so I always knew, even from the time I was very small, that living on my own in the world just wasn't a realistic option.
 
#24 · (Edited)
That you have a loving husband you trust is a positive statement... living with a neurological disorder must be challenging, that is doesn't define you is a powerful statement of confidence.

We all need to rely on another in this life, that we find someone to trust and share our vulnerabilities with is so important in being, and being fulfilled. When we drop our walls and open our hearts, life delivers many wonderful surprises.

Firsts and foremost, keep the love alive... this is definition worth having.

Warmth and kind thoughts to you and your husband, may calm continue to find you and keep your inner peace mindful for every day you openly share that love with him...
 
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#45 ·
You where banned as a WS from SI? Impressive.

Actually TAM tends to be most blunter and in your face then most sites. You are not seeing it here is because you are displaying the qualities a WS needs to show to reconcile.
 
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#47 ·
You write well, and I can see you are a Bronte fan....

This part concerns me:

But there are desires and needs that I have that I don't want to entrust to anyone else but you. Not to my internet friends, but to you. We've talked before about my internet friends like Simon and Brandur and Azron. You know them all. You know the things I tell them and the things I ask of them. You know that they fulfill an emotional void I have- a need to be consoled. And you've said before that if I need that from them, I should feel free to take it. But, the attachment I have for them- at least while they are caring for me- is not an attachment I want to have towards anyone but you. I know that the vast reserves of compassion and emotional support they give me are purely platonic, but I don't like that I should ever feel such an intimacy- platonic or not- should be given to anybody but you. It's you I want to comfort me through my great many, often completely spontaneous and causeless, emotional tempests. It's you I want to hold me tight and whisper soothing and sweet everythings in my ear.
Here is what I see. I think your husband loves you desperately. He is also desperate not to lose you. Desperate people make bad decisions when they are searching for a way to save their world, and allowing you to correspond with men, right after it was revealed you had an EA with an online male, was in my opinion a desperate acquiescence on your BH's part.

Frankly, I do not believe you should be corresponding with these men. I want to tell you something about most men: most men are not interested in friendships with women. If a friendship happens by happenstance then that is a pleasant bonus, but most men don't go out looking for a platonic female friend. The man you had your affair with was a player, who had no interest in just being friends with you. Had things progressed, he would have found a way to meet up with you and have sex with you.

Now these guys you correspond with may very well be the real deal and are only trying to help you. But do you really think that brings true solace to your BH? He sees these men filling a need in you that he cannot, and at some deep level that has to hurt him. I know that I would be very hurt if the woman I love was getting emotional feeding from other men, when she should only be getting it from me.

Please answer these questions....

1) Have you really given your husband the chance to be your emotional support, or have you just assumed all along that he is not up to the task?

2) Why do you need SO much emotional support from so many people..men and women?

3) Why do you need MALE emotional support specifically? Why can you not be satisfied with emotional support from girlfriends?

4) Why do you seek out male validation and emotional feeding?

5) Why is not one man's emotional support enough?

6) Why do you need four men bolstering your emotional health? Don't you see that as a bit absurd?

You have a lot of issues to work on. Frankly, again, I would not send this letter to your husband, because what it will be saying to him is that he is not cutting the mustard. I think everything else in the letter is fine, but you need to isolate the reasons for your neediness for outside emotional validation with your counselor before you make these kinds of demands on your husband. Your husband just had his universe rocked by what you did. Now is not the time to be displaying his deficiencies as a mate. You need to stop his bleeding first and suture the wounds you made. Later on, after he is out of ICU, and the shock of your affair has worn off a bit, then the two of you can start working on these needs.

If you must give him the letter, then I would simply ask him for more emotional support, and tell him you will be terminating your correspondences with these men as an olive branch and proof that you are focusing only on him and no other. I would tell him that you are focusing on isolating why you are so needy and that you are working towards moire emotional independence.

You are so damn young. I'm glad we caught you now while your brain is still somewhat malleable.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Please answer these questions....

1) Have you really given your husband the chance to be your emotional support, or have you just assumed all along that he is not up to the task?

2) Why do you need SO much emotional support from so many people..men and women?

3) Why do you need MALE emotional support specifically? Why can you not be satisfied with emotional support from girlfriends?

4) Why do you seek out male validation and emotional feeding?

5) Why is not one man's emotional support enough?

6) Why do you need four men bolstering your emotional health? Don't you see that as a bit absurd?

You have a lot of issues to work on. Frankly, again, I would not send this letter to your husband, because what it will be saying to him is that he is not cutting the mustard. I think everything else in the letter is fine, but you need to isolate the reasons for your neediness for outside emotional validation with your counselor before you make these kinds of demands on your husband. Your husband just had his universe rocked by what you did. Now is not the time to be displaying his deficiencies as a mate. You need to stop his bleeding first and suture the wounds you made. Later on, after he is out of ICU, and the shock of your affair has worn off a bit, then the two of you can start working on these needs.

If you must give him the letter, then I would simply ask him for more emotional support, and tell him you will be terminating your correspondences with these men as an olive branch and proof that you are focusing only on him and no other. I would tell him that you are focusing on isolating why you are so needy and that you are working towards moire emotional independence.
Well, my A happened in October of 2014, so I would hope and pray the wound still isn't fresh. If it's that raw, I've got a LOT of work to do to help him, you're right. A practical step may indeed be terminating most of my online friendships.

1) A little of both. He is actually quite supportive when I'm upset, just not in the ways I'd prefer, the ways I find most comforting. In case you haven't noticed, I can get really fluffy and sappy with the words. My primary love language is words of affirmation. His is Quality Time. We both share physical touch as a secondary one, so in our house- and in public or wherever we happen to be- it's a nonstop cuddlefest. For seven years we've been unable to keep our hands off one another, so I hope that he is somewhat comforted by that. We do go out and make memories together and spend quality time together, but it's gotten a bit routine and I have been thinking of ways to spice it up...

...Tangent, sorry. Anyway, yes but he's not as verbally fluffy as I find I need.

2) The ever-elusive "Why". Mostly, because I have a chorus of voices in my head telling me I'm scum and I'm utterly incapable of doing anything in any capacity. Self-esteem aside, the second part might very well be true. I seem to have a bottomless emotional pit to satiate the fear of being left alone to fend for myself, which would almost certainly equal literal, physical death, if not by starvation or some medical issue, then by my own hand due to the sheer terror of the prospect. If I have 10 or 20 people telling me it's going to be alright, they're here for me, they'll be my anchor and my crying shoulder, then I am 10 or 20 steps removed from oblivion. Trusting one man almost feels at times like being one step from falling off the Grand Canyon.

3) I know that women are, by their biological nature, more nurturing, but I also know that we tend to subconsciously view each other as competition. I do not need to compete with men, so I tend to choose nurturing, effeminate men as my friends. One of my friends is Autistic, one is gay and deeply in denial about it, and one was literally raised as a girl until he was five. They're all just a little bit psychologically skewed and all very, very nurturing, seeking someone even more needy and mentally off to make them feel more masculine. They, unlike women, see no threat in me. In short, their crazy matches my crazy. Of course, it took me years of therapy to be able to verbalize all of this; it's been subconscious for so long.

4) See 3

5) See 2

6) Yes but no. I have a serious, severe emotional deficiency stemming from the idea that if I ever had to physically or psychologically look after myself, I'd be so scared of the prospect I'd probably commit suicide. In therapy, I've made great strides with the psychological aspect of self-care, and I can actually survive a mental storm for 2 or 3 days without talking to ANYBODY if they don't happen to be around. It's taken me years to get to the point where I can do that, and it feels like I'm gonna die when I have to do that, but I can, and I'm really rather shocked at myself that I can actually do it.

...Sorry, going on a tangent again. Anyway, humans aren't limitless in their capacity to care for someone. If I trust only ONE of my friends to handle ALL of my emotional void during a particularly rough spell, it's like putting a vacuum on their soul, and I risk them being burnt out and drained rather quickly. I feel terrible about hurting somebody like that and it is the last thing I want to do, so I spread my neediness out among multiple people so nobody has to shoulder all of me all of the time. People get less stressed that way. Also, see #2 about having as many steps between me and death as possible.
 
#52 · (Edited)
I understand your #1 love language is words of affirmation. What causes me concern is that you seem to want those words to be of a specific type (flowery and romantic and wordy). The vast majority of men are not capable of expressing their feelings in the way that you do in your writings. Most men will not employee the the lines and flowery, descriptive prose that you seem to crave. Unless their goal is to get into your pants and then the lines are from a book on how to get women and not genuine. You seem to want the words from books of classical romantic writers of tragic romances and love poems.

Did your on-line AP hook you with lines like that during your affair?

I hate to say it, but if being wooed like that is what you desire above all else and what you cannot live without, you are at risk of repeating the affair when some smooth talking guy gives you that in the future. I don't think your husband will ever measure up to your ideal of what you want.

I suppose my wife and I were in a similar place where you and your husband are now. I just could not put two words together in the manner that would satisfy her need to be appreciated. I finally bought her a record (yeah I just aged myself. Do you even know what a record is? Round, made of vinyl?) - Never my love, by a group called the Association - and told her this is me. That helped. We have now been married almost 42 years. It was the only thing I could think of and it was shortly after I caught her heading out to dinner with a guy from her exercise class. "Just a friend" she said. No, I said it is a date and my wife does not go on dates with other men. If you go, I will not be here when you get back.
 
#54 ·
Did your on-line AP hook you with lines like that during your affair?
Actually he didn't. What drew me to him was that he said he had a disabled daughter whom he cared for, and he said he had money. I assumed my marriage was ending and was thinking along the lines of survival rather than romance. He almost never said so much as one kind word to me, in fact.
 
#58 ·
Captain Wentworth to Anne Elliot...

I can listen no longer in silence. I must speak to you by such means as are within my reach. You pierce my soul. I am half agony, half hope. Tell me not that I am too late, that such precious feelings are gone for ever. I offer myself to you again with a heart even more your own than when you almost broke it, eight years and a half ago. Dare not say that man forgets sooner than woman, that his love has an earlier death. I have loved none but you. Unjust I may have been, weak and resentful I have been, but never inconstant. You alone have brought me to Bath. For you alone, I think and plan. Have you not seen this? Can you fail to have understood my wishes? I had not waited even these ten days, could I have read your feelings, as I think you must have penetrated mine. I can hardly write. I am every instant hearing something which overpowers me. You sink your voice, but I can distinguish the tones of that voice when they would be lost on others. Too good, too excellent creature! You do us justice, indeed. You do believe that there is true attachment and constancy among men. Believe it to be most fervent, most undeviating, in

.

From Jane Austen's Persuasion.
 
#67 ·
He was 25. Would you let your 15 year old daughter date a 25 year old?
 
#69 · (Edited)
We played our game, "The and" again tonight. He tells me he honestly doesn't mind my online friendships- that because of their effeminate nature he knows- "By default", he put it, that he doesn't have anything to fear. That the only times he gets jealous of my online friends is when I spend all my time with them and not enough with him. He says he would not feel any different if my friends were female. He says the question, "What would you do if you suspected I was being unfaithful?" is as absurd as the question, "What would you do if I started walking on the ceiling?" and that both have about an equal chance of happening. He says he really believes I learned from my A in 2014, and that I won't do it again.

I agreed with him. I told him, "So many people on TAM have gotten literal PTSD because their partners cheated, and the idea that I could have done that to you causes me so much pain and makes me feel so very, very protective of you- like I want to nurture you and help you heal." He says he's fine now, really.

Then we started speaking of emotional intimacy in general. I told him I was so very proud of how far he had come in learning to be emotionally vulnerable with me and learning to talk about difficult and emotional subjects. I told him I was seriously in awe at his strength and his composure when we play our "game" and when he has to confront his fear of emotional intimacy. He compared the idea of spilling out his heart to being shown a big, hairy spider, and that he's been that way all his life due to how he was raised. He says he's always been like that, even pre-A. I know he has, because for basically our entire courtship, the man was tipsy. He had to get drunk just to have the courage to say meaningful words to me, and now he's doing it sober on the regular. I said, "I know it's scary, but for one, the more you do something scary and realize it's not going to hurt you, the less afraid of it you get, and that's what our "game" is about... and for two, I recognize that being honest and vulnerable is not easy for you and as such, I admire ALL of your attempts at emotional intimacy. Even if you don't think you've done well, I think you have just by virtue of trying at all."

Another thing we talked about was that I feared that he thought I wasn't pulling my weight. He says he is NOT disappointed in what I do (or don't do), to my great relief. He says he doesn't believe at all that he'll grow to resent me for being dependent upon him. He said that he didn't think I was doing too little and that he's proud of the things I DO manage to do- like my academic successes. He said, "I am a simple guy. I don't ask for a lot. I don't need a lot. I mean, what more can I want, besides someone to love? And someone who loves me?" I melted a little bit.

We ended the game as we always do- with hugs and cuddles and kisses- and now he's watching silly videos to decompress. I really admire his strength. I always have.

We're planning a HUGE date night after school lets out for winter break. We're going to go out to dinner, paint pottery as early Christmas gifts to each other, and then go home and open a bottle of champagne and... ahem... "practice".

I cannot wait!!!!
 
#70 ·
OK even though the 15 - 25 thing is grossing me out, I am going to ignore that since you have been married and you are now legal age. My question to you is why are all your confidants men? That doesn't make sense. Look no ones spouse is able to fulfill all our emotional needs, nor are they meant to be. That is not how life works. To be a well rounded person we need friends and interests that are separate from our SO. Partly because it is too much pressure for anyone to fulfill every part of another persons life.

However in this situation you have already had issues because of your male online friend. Even if it didn't destroy your husband the AP ended up being a creep. Why are you continuing the pattern that lead you to such a bad place. Secondly you met your husband as an online friend, so you seem to have a disposition to fall for these guys. Why do you continue to put yourself in situations where you will be tempted. OK maybe you don't like these 3, three men, but eventually you might find one you do. Is that fair to your husband to continue to tempt fate?

I would submit to you what would have happened if your AP wasn't and @sshole? You probably would have stayed with him, in 3 or so years when the newness worn off you would probably have been in the same boat, however you would have already left your first husband (current husband) destroyed. What happens if the next guy friend is nice and does want to have a relationship with you.

You need to have healthier boundaries in your marriage. The key to not cheating is not putting yourself into a position to be tempted to cheat. You need girlfriends who are like minded and will support your marriage. You can have the same intimate conversations and assuming you and they are straight there will be no temptation to do wrong.

Finally I wonder how your husband really feels knowing he met you online, you met your affair partner online, and you continue to have many male friends with which, in your own words, you have intimate conversations with online. I am sure it doesn't leave him with tons of confidence, even if he is not saying anything.

Something to think about.
 
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#71 · (Edited)
OK even though the 15 - 25 thing is grossing me out, I am going to ignore that since you have been married and you are now legal age. My question to you is why are all your confidants men? That doesn't make sense. Look no ones spouse is able to fulfill all our emotional needs, nor are they meant to be. That is not how life works. To be a well rounded person we need friends and interests that are separate from our SO. Partly because it is too much pressure for anyone to fulfill every part of another persons life.
As I said before, it has to do with the fact that I just don't get on well with other women. I have yet to really discover why, and I'm working on that in therapy. I'm going again on Wednesday and I'll be sure to ask my therapist- a woman- next time I go. I mostly get along best with effeminate men and transgender women.


However in this situation you have already had issues because of your male online friend. Even if it didn't destroy your husband the AP ended up being a creep. Why are you continuing the pattern that lead you to such a bad place. Secondly you met your husband as an online friend, so you seem to have a disposition to fall for these guys. Why do you continue to put yourself in situations where you will be tempted. OK maybe you don't like these 3, three men, but eventually you might find one you do. Is that fair to your husband to continue to tempt fate?
No. No it isn't. If I ever do find myself in a situation where I develop a crush, I'll tell my husband about it and tell the OP about it, and break contact. Why would I tell the OP about it? Because if he is an honorable person, he'll say, "That's terrible! You're married. I agree, we shouldn't act on this at all. See ya." If he's not honorable, and he starts to flirt with me, I'll be disgusted that he wants to get in my pants and feel just fine about going NC now that I know that the OP has no honor. I've actually been in that situation post-A before and handled it like that and it seemed to work well for me and my BH.

I would submit to you what would have happened if your AP wasn't and @sshole? You probably would have stayed with him, in 3 or so years when the newness worn off you would probably have been in the same boat, however you would have already left your first husband destroyed. What happens if the next guy is nice and does want to have a relationship with you.
You're probably right, I would have. And three years later, I would have gotten bored and probably cheated on him too. And so on and so forth until I was too old to find a new partner and I died alone and unloved and too stupid to realize that real love has seasons and requires work. Wouldn't that have been bloody tragic? For that reason I'm almost kind of glad the OM was a monster.

You need to have healthier boundaries in your marriage. The key to not cheating is not putting yourself into a position to be tempted to cheat. You need girlfriends who are like minded and will support your marriage. You can have the same intimate conversations and assuming you and they are straight there will be no temptation to do wrong.
I'm actually bi, and I tend to lust after women more than men, and I tend to like emotional contact with men more than women. The lust I feel for women is purely a physical, sexual lust- her hair, her eyes, her waistline, etc. I feel less inclined to find a woman attractive for her mind or her soul. With men it's the opposite. If I develop sexual feelings towards a man, it usually has to do with his personality. Of course I am physically attracted to some men too, but the attraction isn't as strong. I fell in love with my husband for his personality rather than his looks. I fell in "love" (I get nauseated using that word in that context) with the OM because he was intelligent. It was a bit of a shock to my husband when we found out I'm bi, but discovering your sexuality after you get married is part of what happens when you marry at 18, I suppose.

Finally I wonder how your husband really feels knowing he met you online, you met your affair partner online, and you continue to have many male friends with which, in your own words, you have intimate conversations with online. I am sure it doesn't leave him with tons of confidence, even if he is not saying anything.

Something to think about.
All I have to go on there is what he himself has told me. He has said to me tonight that the idea of me cheating on him seems absolutely absurd, and that he knows in his heart of hearts that my male friends and I don't have some unrequited lust for one another. It well may be that secretly, he is jealous and hurt, but he shows no outward signs of it. If he really is jealous, I would hope he has it in him to tell me outright so I can handle it and do whatever I need to do to make it right, whether that is talking to him, breaking it off with my friends, going to MC, getting him in IC or (most probably) all of the above.
 
#73 ·
Hi, first of all you have a great man next to you. I'm not able to forgive and forget and this ended many important relationships of mine. You have to forgive yourself also because I think that he doesn't need to think about it when he's not thinking about it! Other than this...are you giving him something special/different from what other got in a sexually way? I'm thinking about, and I do apologize for the terms, anal, swallow, anything else he can wish/desire and so on. Give him something you didn't give to other and tell him BEFORE AND WITHOUT MENTION EX something like "I want to do something new for you, let's try XXX" this will make him feel special ... in a sexual way at least ... anyway, forgive yourself


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#75 ·
That must be hard, to be bisexual. You are not really "safe" with either sex.

Have you shown your husband your posts here? Has he considered joining TAM, too?
 
#76 ·
My husband isn't really a "forum" type of person. He doesn't share his thoughts readily with anyone. I'm the closest he's ever been with anyone, and even I sometimes feel like I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling. If he asked to read any of my Forum posts, I'd let him without hesitation.

I would tell him that I want him to read my posts, but I don't want to stress him out by forcing him to read my most secret thoughts, especially as we played "the and" yesterday, so we had a lot of emotional intimacy already- at least by his standards. I'm afraid of hurting him or wearing him out.
 
#98 ·
He does not seem fragile, Ella. I would not nurse those worries.

Continue to be as transparent as you can be.

It really would be good for him to read your threads. I think it would be wise of him to not only listen to your heartfelt outpourings here, but to hear the advice you are getting, too. He can tell you if it is worth listening to or not.

Not all men are devastated by a wife's affair, Ella. Not every man expects his wife to heal him. Each man has his own reaction. Listen to your man.
 
#78 ·
I've downloaded the "Not Just Friends" audio book. I got it for free because of my amazon prime account. I'm sure it will help me navigate both what lingers of my BH's pain, and my own paranoia that he may one day be unfaithful to me. I've actually been afraid of that since we first started dating, more due to innate insecurity than anything he's actually done or not done.

I'd ask if my BH wants to give it a listen along with me or after me, but again, I don't want to hurt him or exhaust him, or make him feel pressured to do anything (else) that would be painful for him.
 
#79 ·
I wonder if you have ever asked your counselor how to go about learning to love and respect yourself again?

Don't you deserve that? Doesn't anyone who is with you deserve a woman who loves and respects herself? How can someone who does not love and respect themselves, love someone else?

Maybe some questions to ask the counselor?

You will be more attractive when you find these feelings for yourself.

Fight for yourself. You are worth it. Believe it. Want it. Get it. Ask your counselor for help. Just do it.
 
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#80 ·
i was wondering if you got involved with the abusive OM NOT because you had some mental issues, but simply because you are sexually submissive and wanted the abuse. I do not know you well enough to suggest that too forcefully, but it is a possibility. Often when a woman is submissive she is afraid to tell her husband, but is willing to tell a complete stranger online.

IF there is a possiblility of that, you might be able to have your husband try some more dominant sexual moves with you. If he fills that role fully, then there will never be another reason to stray outside the marriage. But, of course, you have to get up the nerve to ASK him to be your dom.
 
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