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post #91 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 06:21 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

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Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
He wrote out a timeline for me. They flirted for months but she broke up with her bf right before it happened and started coming onto him harder after that. I am glad he wrote it all out and it now makes more sense
Don't assume the timeline is anything other than "Based on a true story".

He has no reason to be completely honest and he has every reason to downplay and trickle truth.

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post #92 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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I understand that. I believe nothing he says. Questioning our whole relationship. I am so embarrassed. So hurt.
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post #93 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 06:44 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Don't be embarrassed for being trusting. That's a good trait. You were scammed.
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post #94 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 07:08 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Textbook trickle-truth.

If she's married, engaged, or has a boyfriend, expose to her SO.

Sorry.

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post #95 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 08:03 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

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Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
It changes everything. For me, oral isn't as intimate. Still hurt like hell but now it's a whole new story. I feel numb. Can't think j straight. I feel bad because I know I am not giving my kids my all. Just making sure they are fed and clean. No interaction bc I am so depressed. He wrote out a timeline for me. They flirted for months but she broke up with her bf right before it happened and started coming onto him harder after that. I am glad he wrote it all out and it now makes more sense but I am so hurt. I am disgusted. I can't believe I have been being intimate with him after this. I am so turned off. The thought of touching him makes me want to throw up
This is probably still lies why does he always magically end it right before he got caught, before they had sex, and so on. Why is she the one coming onto him. I am sure he was coming on just as quick. He continues to lie to minimize his betrayal. I am sorry you can't believe a word he says. We know this NOT because we are any smarter then you, it's only because we all have the same history and then we have read these types of threads over and over. Cheaters lie, it's in their nature.

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post #96 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 08:04 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

@adegirl2016,

I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?

Right now, chances are about 99.99% that he is in "Cover Your A$$" mode. He knows that you know. He knows that what he's done is wrong and made a mess. But he's hoping that if he only give you "a bit here" and "a bit there" he can get away with minimum consequences and maybe convince you to stay so he can have his cake and eat it too. In other words, maybe the OW boosted his ego and complimented him and made him feel great...but you met some needs too like free childcare, free housecleaning, or additional income AND he also had a convenient scapegoat: YOU! He doesn't want to have to face the results of his choice to be a cheater because they hurt. And he doesn't want to lose the needs you do fulfill--whatever they may be--because if you weren't around who would he blame for the $hit in his life? It couldn't possibly be HIM!

Soooo...in order to keep you on the hook and minimize damage, he'll feed you just enough to say "I KNEW IT!" (because you know some...but not everything), and he'll hold back just enough for you to doubt yourself. He's doing this for SELF-preservation, and I want you to look really closely at that word. WHO is he preserving? You? NOPE! HimSELF. It's all SELF-centered.

Almost no adulterer I know thinks to themselves that the natural consequence--the result that comes naturally--of flirting and cheating ... is LOSS OF THE MARRAGE, and loss of half of everything they own, and loss of half their time with their children! No one thinks of that. They just think "if they don't know it won't hurt anything" and carry on, right? But IN REAL LIFE every choice has both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that huge ego boost! You feel ALIVE and interesting and great! But the cost (the result) is exactly what I said: a nuclear bomb is dropped on the marriage and family and it is no longer alive anymore.

Now, the cheater may think "If I minimize it can go back to the way it was, and I'll feel good again." Or the loyal spouse may think "If they just grovel a little and tell me how sorry they are, it can go back to the way it was." But that's not true. As of right now, this moment, your former marriage IS DEAD. It is gone. You can't apply pressure and do CPR and "save it" because it is DEAD. There's a piece blown up over here...another piece over there...several pieces up on the roof...and it is blown to smithereens.

In order for there to ever be a marriage again, you and your disloyal H are going to have to rebuild from the rubble. And for rebuilding to even start and be a possibility he would need to have a fundamental change of heart and change of approach: going from SELF-centered to SPOUSE-centered.

I'm not saying you were an angel before the affair. I suspect you had become busy with life and bills and work and kids and school and kind of let the marriage slide, unintentionally. People often do that with no bad intent. I bet you didn't treat him like a guest (politely and kindly) and started to become irritated with his habits that drove you nuts. See these are the things that an unrepentant disloyal often bring up as reasons for their affair, and the loyal will say "Well...I did kind of do that, so maybe they have a point." NO!

Let me say that again: NO!!!!!!

Even if you were yelling about socks on the floor and not paying attention to him, the solution to that is NOT to choose to commit adultery and then blame it on another!! There are hundreds of solutions that are moral options that show stronger character than choose to commit adultery. And when he calls it "a fling" or "I slipped"... no he didn't. That's just a euphemism. He committed adultery!

So the natural cost of committing adultery is losing your spouse and family (and half your stuff). THAT is what he is due. And the very first step of any recovery will be when he recognizes...really understands in his heart...that WHAT HE DID resulted in the death of the marriage and he is due NOTHING. He is not owed a second chance. He is not owed "forgiveness" nor "you getting over it." He is OWED losing his wife, half the time with the kids, and half of everything he owns. If--someday in the future--he does NOT get that, then it is an amazing gift that he should never, EVER take for granted!!

Once he really understands in his heart that his actions KILLED the marriage and family, the next thing that needs to happen is for him to shift from "protecting himself" to "doing whatever he can to save you." In other words the shift is from SELF-centered, to SPOUSE-centered. When his attitude is "I do not deserve a second chance, but that doesn't matter, because I see the harm I've done to you and my own children and I'm SICK. Even if we don't reconcile I need to do everything I can to help you recover from the damage I did!" then you'll know that he's made this switch. Until you see that kind of attitude from him, you really can not rebuild anything that will live and be healthy.

This is why we so strongly recommend that a disloyal spouse talk to HIS parents...and HER parents...and admit what they've done and ask for forgiveness. It's not to force them to go through certain motions. That's robotic! Nope, it's to demonstrate in a very active way that they understand their damage didn't only hit the spouse and kids, but also the grandparents, the aunts and uncles, the friends like ripples in a pond. It's to demonstrate that change in focus too. By talking to parents willingly, that demonstrates "I'm not trying to save mySELF but rather I'm focusing outward on the people I hurt."

Make sense?

So are you seeing that kind of change in attitude? Be honest--are his ACTIONS protecting HIM...or protecting YOU and the kids? Don't listen to his words--at this point they are hot air and worthless. But ACTIONS--actions will tell the truth. What do his ACTIONS show you?

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post #97 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 08:22 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

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Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
I understand that. I believe nothing he says. Questioning our whole relationship. I am so embarrassed. So hurt.
Hun, we get it, almost everyone of us on here, and frankly almost everyone in the world has one of these stories, period. You have nothing to be embarrassed about, you were tricked. We all are when this happens. People like your husband take advantage of your nature, again it's in their nature to do so.

We all get the hurt, the feeling that you are living in the twilight zone. How can anything in this world be real, how can I trust anyone when I was so duped by someone so close to me. We all had that feeling. It's a part of life unfortunately. You are no different then almost everyone else in this world. Good people really don't understand bad people because their nature is foreign to us. Think about it, I bet doing this to him and your family was the furthest thing from your mind. You were busy having his children, mothering his family. Being proud to be his wife. To do this to your own kids, look how much it has hurt his own kids. Now how could you even conceive that he would do this to you in response. (God I hate cheaters )

You need to put the idea that it is somehow you fault for missing it out of your mind. Again you are no different then the rest of us, we all were scammed. The lesson is not that you got scammed, or even that you should never trust again, it's to never be so vulnerable, or exposed that you are crushed if you get scammed again. But that is for another day.

Now the unfortunate part is the 3 kids and the not working. That kind of puts you in a bind as far as getting out of this fast. You really need to start thinking about this though. When do you graduate? You need to at least talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are.

I am very sorry this happened to you. It's OK to grieve. But one more thing that all of us who have gone through it know that you also can't conceive (and it is the same reason, you have on basis to know this) there is much hope. You will be happy again. You will get through this. You will have joy again. Your life is not even close to being over.

I know the feeling. "I will never get over this hurt." I remember asking, "will I ever not feel like this again." I asked that question out loud, many times. "Does the pain ever go away?" The answer I got was YES with time. So I am telling you. YOU WILL GET OVER THIS. HAVE HOPE!
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post #98 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 08:30 PM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

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Originally Posted by Affaircare View Post
@adegirl2016,

I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?

Right now, chances are about 99.99% that he is in "Cover Your A$$" mode. He knows that you know. He knows that what he's done is wrong and made a mess. But he's hoping that if he only give you "a bit here" and "a bit there" he can get away with minimum consequences and maybe convince you to stay so he can have his cake and eat it too. In other words, maybe the OW boosted his ego and complimented him and made him feel great...but you met some needs too like free childcare, free housecleaning, or additional income AND he also had a convenient scapegoat: YOU! He doesn't want to have to face the results of his choice to be a cheater because they hurt. And he doesn't want to lose the needs you do fulfill--whatever they may be--because if you weren't around who would he blame for the $hit in his life? It couldn't possibly be HIM!

Soooo...in order to keep you on the hook and minimize damage, he'll feed you just enough to say "I KNEW IT!" (because you know some...but not everything), and he'll hold back just enough for you to doubt yourself. He's doing this for SELF-preservation, and I want you to look really closely at that word. WHO is he preserving? You? NOPE! HimSELF. It's all SELF-centered.

Almost no adulterer I know thinks to themselves that the natural consequence--the result that comes naturally--of flirting and cheating ... is LOSS OF THE MARRAGE, and loss of half of everything they own, and loss of half their time with their children! No one thinks of that. They just think "if they don't know it won't hurt anything" and carry on, right? But IN REAL LIFE every choice has both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that huge ego boost! You feel ALIVE and interesting and great! But the cost (the result) is exactly what I said: a nuclear bomb is dropped on the marriage and family and it is no longer alive anymore.

Now, the cheater may think "If I minimize it can go back to the way it was, and I'll feel good again." Or the loyal spouse may think "If they just grovel a little and tell me how sorry they are, it can go back to the way it was." But that's not true. As of right now, this moment, your former marriage IS DEAD. It is gone. You can't apply pressure and do CPR and "save it" because it is DEAD. There's a piece blown up over here...another piece over there...several pieces up on the roof...and it is blown to smithereens.

In order for there to ever be a marriage again, you and your disloyal H are going to have to rebuild from the rubble. And for rebuilding to even start and be a possibility he would need to have a fundamental change of heart and change of approach: going from SELF-centered to SPOUSE-centered.

I'm not saying you were an angel before the affair. I suspect you had become busy with life and bills and work and kids and school and kind of let the marriage slide, unintentionally. People often do that with no bad intent. I bet you didn't treat him like a guest (politely and kindly) and started to become irritated with his habits that drove you nuts. See these are the things that an unrepentant disloyal often bring up as reasons for their affair, and the loyal will say "Well...I did kind of do that, so maybe they have a point." NO!

Let me say that again: NO!!!!!!

Even if you were yelling about socks on the floor and not paying attention to him, the solution to that is NOT to choose to commit adultery and then blame it on another!! There are hundreds of solutions that are moral options that show stronger character than choose to commit adultery. And when he calls it "a fling" or "I slipped"... no he didn't. That's just a euphemism. He committed adultery!

So the natural cost of committing adultery is losing your spouse and family (and half your stuff). THAT is what he is due. And the very first step of any recovery will be when he recognizes...really understands in his heart...that WHAT HE DID resulted in the death of the marriage and he is due NOTHING. He is not owed a second chance. He is not owed "forgiveness" nor "you getting over it." He is OWED losing his wife, half the time with the kids, and half of everything he owns. If--someday in the future--he does NOT get that, then it is an amazing gift that he should never, EVER take for granted!!

Once he really understands in his heart that his actions KILLED the marriage and family, the next thing that needs to happen is for him to shift from "protecting himself" to "doing whatever he can to save you." In other words the shift is from SELF-centered, to SPOUSE-centered. When his attitude is "I do not deserve a second chance, but that doesn't matter, because I see the harm I've done to you and my own children and I'm SICK. Even if we don't reconcile I need to do everything I can to help you recover from the damage I did!" then you'll know that he's made this switch. Until you see that kind of attitude from him, you really can not rebuild anything that will live and be healthy.

This is why we so strongly recommend that a disloyal spouse talk to HIS parents...and HER parents...and admit what they've done and ask for forgiveness. It's not to force them to go through certain motions. That's robotic! Nope, it's to demonstrate in a very active way that they understand their damage didn't only hit the spouse and kids, but also the grandparents, the aunts and uncles, the friends like ripples in a pond. It's to demonstrate that change in focus too. By talking to parents willingly, that demonstrates "I'm not trying to save mySELF but rather I'm focusing outward on the people I hurt."

Make sense?

So are you seeing that kind of change in attitude? Be honest--are his ACTIONS protecting HIM...or protecting YOU and the kids? Don't listen to his words--at this point they are hot air and worthless. But ACTIONS--actions will tell the truth. What do his ACTIONS show you?
This, this is what you need to see to even begin to think about taking him back. And even then, if you decide that you don't want that deal then you don't have to take it. But for now you should be thinking about getting to safety. Maybe that means moving in with your Dad for a while so you can detach and clear your head. Maybe that means him moving out with his Mom.
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post #99 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Affaircare View Post
@adegirl2016,

I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?

Right now, chances are about 99.99% that he is in "Cover Your A$$" mode. He knows that you know. He knows that what he's done is wrong and made a mess. But he's hoping that if he only give you "a bit here" and "a bit there" he can get away with minimum consequences and maybe convince you to stay so he can have his cake and eat it too. In other words, maybe the OW boosted his ego and complimented him and made him feel great...but you met some needs too like free childcare, free housecleaning, or additional income AND he also had a convenient scapegoat: YOU! He doesn't want to have to face the results of his choice to be a cheater because they hurt. And he doesn't want to lose the needs you do fulfill--whatever they may be--because if you weren't around who would he blame for the $hit in his life? It couldn't possibly be HIM!

Soooo...in order to keep you on the hook and minimize damage, he'll feed you just enough to say "I KNEW IT!" (because you know some...but not everything), and he'll hold back just enough for you to doubt yourself. He's doing this for SELF-preservation, and I want you to look really closely at that word. WHO is he preserving? You? NOPE! HimSELF. It's all SELF-centered.

Almost no adulterer I know thinks to themselves that the natural consequence--the result that comes naturally--of flirting and cheating ... is LOSS OF THE MARRAGE, and loss of half of everything they own, and loss of half their time with their children! No one thinks of that. They just think "if they don't know it won't hurt anything" and carry on, right? But IN REAL LIFE every choice has both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that huge ego boost! You feel ALIVE and interesting and great! But the cost (the result) is exactly what I said: a nuclear bomb is dropped on the marriage and family and it is no longer alive anymore.

Now, the cheater may think "If I minimize it can go back to the way it was, and I'll feel good again." Or the loyal spouse may think "If they just grovel a little and tell me how sorry they are, it can go back to the way it was." But that's not true. As of right now, this moment, your former marriage IS DEAD. It is gone. You can't apply pressure and do CPR and "save it" because it is DEAD. There's a piece blown up over here...another piece over there...several pieces up on the roof...and it is blown to smithereens.

In order for there to ever be a marriage again, you and your disloyal H are going to have to rebuild from the rubble. And for rebuilding to even start and be a possibility he would need to have a fundamental change of heart and change of approach: going from SELF-centered to SPOUSE-centered.

I'm not saying you were an angel before the affair. I suspect you had become busy with life and bills and work and kids and school and kind of let the marriage slide, unintentionally. People often do that with no bad intent. I bet you didn't treat him like a guest (politely and kindly) and started to become irritated with his habits that drove you nuts. See these are the things that an unrepentant disloyal often bring up as reasons for their affair, and the loyal will say "Well...I did kind of do that, so maybe they have a point." NO!

Let me say that again: NO!!!!!!

Even if you were yelling about socks on the floor and not paying attention to him, the solution to that is NOT to choose to commit adultery and then blame it on another!! There are hundreds of solutions that are moral options that show stronger character than choose to commit adultery. And when he calls it "a fling" or "I slipped"... no he didn't. That's just a euphemism. He committed adultery!

So the natural cost of committing adultery is losing your spouse and family (and half your stuff). THAT is what he is due. And the very first step of any recovery will be when he recognizes...really understands in his heart...that WHAT HE DID resulted in the death of the marriage and he is due NOTHING. He is not owed a second chance. He is not owed "forgiveness" nor "you getting over it." He is OWED losing his wife, half the time with the kids, and half of everything he owns. If--someday in the future--he does NOT get that, then it is an amazing gift that he should never, EVER take for granted!!

Once he really understands in his heart that his actions KILLED the marriage and family, the next thing that needs to happen is for him to shift from "protecting himself" to "doing whatever he can to save you." In other words the shift is from SELF-centered, to SPOUSE-centered. When his attitude is "I do not deserve a second chance, but that doesn't matter, because I see the harm I've done to you and my own children and I'm SICK. Even if we don't reconcile I need to do everything I can to help you recover from the damage I did!" then you'll know that he's made this switch. Until you see that kind of attitude from him, you really can not rebuild anything that will live and be healthy.

This is why we so strongly recommend that a disloyal spouse talk to HIS parents...and HER parents...and admit what they've done and ask for forgiveness. It's not to force them to go through certain motions. That's robotic! Nope, it's to demonstrate in a very active way that they understand their damage didn't only hit the spouse and kids, but also the grandparents, the aunts and uncles, the friends like ripples in a pond. It's to demonstrate that change in focus too. By talking to parents willingly, that demonstrates "I'm not trying to save mySELF but rather I'm focusing outward on the people I hurt."

Make sense?

So are you seeing that kind of change in attitude? Be honest--are his ACTIONS protecting HIM...or protecting YOU and the kids? Don't listen to his words--at this point they are hot air and worthless. But ACTIONS--actions will tell the truth. What do his ACTIONS show you?

I really appreciate all of your advice. I am not sure yet that he has made a complete transition to spouse centered. He still seems very self centered. Not that he isn't "trying" but just not in the right way or for the right reasons.
When I brought up the fact that he was getting frustrated with me today, when he should have been more understanding, he said "well I have a lot going on in my mind too! I majorily messed up and I cannot stand to see you so upset. I really thought holding back that information would make things better but i see that it hasn't"
I guess there is nothing more I should do at this point.
He says that I am looking over our progress, so I think I am going to start journaling my feelings first thing in the morning and before I go to bed (thats when my feelings are the strongest). I will write down the positives of the day and the negatives so that if I need to look back I can.

He really acts like as if he didn't know he should have told me. It's like he thought he was doing me a favor by not telling me. Is it possible that someone really has zero clue as of how to fix this?

Just rambling.....
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post #100 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusPolinski View Post
Textbook trickle-truth.

If she's married, engaged, or has a boyfriend, expose to her SO.

Sorry.

I don't think she is but I emailed their HR. My husband quit yesterday. So it probably won't affect him much but she still works there.

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post #101 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:16 AM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
I really appreciate all of your advice. I am not sure yet that he has made a complete transition to spouse centered. He still seems very self centered. Not that he isn't "trying" but just not in the right way or for the right reasons.
When I brought up the fact that he was getting frustrated with me today, when he should have been more understanding, he said "well I have a lot going on in my mind too! I majorily messed up and I cannot stand to see you so upset. I really thought holding back that information would make things better but i see that it hasn't"
I guess there is nothing more I should do at this point.
He says that I am looking over our progress, so I think I am going to start journaling my feelings first thing in the morning and before I go to bed (thats when my feelings are the strongest). I will write down the positives of the day and the negatives so that if I need to look back I can.

He really acts like as if he didn't know he should have told me. It's like he thought he was doing me a favor by not telling me. Is it possible that someone really has zero clue as of how to fix this?

Just rambling.....
His point about not telling you. I don't get it, that's like a robber saying after he breaks in and kills the guy, I'm sorry I broke into your house. He is sorry he didn't tell you. He shouldn't have done it then he wouldn't have to be sorry he lied about it. Please don't rug-sweep you will end up very unhappy.
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post #102 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:27 AM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
It's practically impossible they didn't have sex. Not only that but you can bet the house it's been on numerous occasions and unprotected.
60 mins later...... The cheater script is SO very real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
He just admitted to having sex with her
And?

Believe me there's a lot more. Now he can admit it was multiple times, unprotected and he enjoyed it.

He will continue to feed you CRUMBS of information until you are satisfied and leave him alone.

This is death by 1,000 cuts. He just wants to get away with it with as little damage done as possible.

He doesn't care if you're in pain. He's REMORSELESS. You need to get tested for STDs if you haven't yet.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #103 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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I was tested earlier but bc I really thought it was only oral I didn't get tested for everything. I have an appointment next week with the doctor who delivered my baby to get tested and my husband is coming with. I can't wait for how awkward it will be!!
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post #104 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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And I really mean that. Not even being sarcastic.
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post #105 of 285 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 10:27 AM
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Re: It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
I was tested earlier but bc I really thought it was only oral I didn't get tested for everything. I have an appointment next week with the doctor who delivered my baby to get tested and my husband is coming with. I can't wait for how awkward it will be!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by adegirl2016 View Post
And I really mean that. Not even being sarcastic.
He deserves some awkwardness and public shaming. I don't normally agree with shaming, but he really deserves it.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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