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post #46 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 04:07 PM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Even if they change their stripes you are still subjecting yourself to spend every day of your life with someone who horribly abused you. To do that you must dampen your soul and it's bad for you as a person. This is not a healthy choice.
You know, I actually pity you. You must have had a horrible life to be so jaded.

Have you been cheated on? Have the rest of you expounding this crap been cheated on??

How many of you have read my story?

Do I strike you as the kind of person has 'dampened their soul'???

You people really need to get a grip here and stop acting so high and mighty.

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post #47 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 06:03 PM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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...

you will have to subjugate your soul to some extent because you know deep down in your heart that you are settling. This is part of why you are in so much pain even years later, because you have given up control of your life to fear. Because you have given your agency to someone who abused you.

There is so much better our there for you but you have to be brave and leave.
This is all so true - I'm feeling the fear but trying to do it (leave) anyway.

And I would say the reason why someone would "want" to be married to someone they have to give a polygraph to is fear. They dont necessarily "want" to be married to that person, but they fear being alone/starting over more than they fear the hurt and emotional pain they have become all too familiar with.
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post #48 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 06:49 PM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

The original question Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

For a large number of reasons

*Because they want the truth so they can decide if they can forgive.

*So they can free their spouse from their lies, and their spouse can forgive themselves, if they have a conscience.

*That they DID everything they could to save the marriage.

*So they can decide what to do with the other person.

*So they can inform the other persons spouse.

*So they know that the other person or unknown other person is not still in contact or nearby.

*So they can find out if their spouse is still in love with the other person

*So they can determine if their spouse has never regained love or attraction for them.

*To decide after the divorce if remarriage is possible.

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post #49 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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This is all so true - I'm feeling the fear but trying to do it (leave) anyway.

And I would say the reason why someone would "want" to be married to someone they have to give a polygraph to is fear. They dont necessarily "want" to be married to that person, but they fear being alone/starting over more than they fear the hurt and emotional pain they have become all too familiar with.
The best thing my Mother ever did was leave her abuser. My life with my wonderful wife wouldn't be here today if I had stayed with my first love who cheated on me. It will be hard at first no denying that but just like you feel in love and had something with this person who was the wrong one you can do the same with someone new. You can still have the dream, just not with this person. But you will have to have courage and faith.
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post #50 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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The original question Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

For a large number of reasons

*Because they want the truth so they can decide if they can forgive.

*So they can free their spouse from their lies, and their spouse can forgive themselves, if they have a conscience.

*That they DID everything they could to save the marriage.

*So they can decide what to do with the other person.

*So they can inform the other persons spouse.

*So they know that the other person or unknown other person is not still in contact or nearby.

*So they can find out if their spouse is still in love with the other person

*So they can determine if their spouse has never regained love or attraction for them.

*To decide after the divorce if remarriage is possible.

Tamat

The question was not why would you ask them to take a poly, it's why would you stay in a relationship where a poly needed to be used.
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post #51 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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You know, I actually pity you. You must have had a horrible life to be so jaded.

Have you been cheated on? Have the rest of you expounding this crap been cheated on??

How many of you have read my story?

Do I strike you as the kind of person has 'dampened their soul'???

You people really need to get a grip here and stop acting so high and mighty.
I'm sorry you are upset enough by this to want to attack me. This was not an attack on anyone, or not meant to be. It was meant to be encouragement for people to seek out better in their lives.

I have posted on here many times how I and relatives lives got so much better when they left.

Read some of these posts do any of these people seem happy , they are desperately trying to fix something that is beyond repair. It's sad to see people waste their lives. And no one on there is allowed to say, no this is not fixable. It is normal, healthy and reasonable that when you waking up everyday next to someone who committed one of the most emotionally painful sins against you and even possibly your children, if you had them, that you probably will be very unhappy in your life.
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post #52 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:24 AM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Obviously I mention criminals because in this context it's same.
Generally, "criminals" don't take polygraphs because their lawyers advise them not to. It's innocent people that jump at the opportunity to take them to demonstrate to the police that they should be ruled out as a suspect and the police should focus their time and resources elsewhere. For example, baby gets kidnapped and the parents want the police to stop investigating them and, instead, focus on finding their abducted child.

But I do understand your point. Adultery is a crime. It is abuse. It is not to be taken lightly or summed up simply as a mistake.


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I think since the happy are probably about 001% it is much better to encourage people to leave, the people who leave are about 99% happy.
So you're saying there's a chance?

I'm certain I'm exponentially more happy than you; but, I'd have been happy either way. That said, "happiness" isn't the goal of my life, it is the byproduct of living well.

That said, just because you "THINK" some statistics up about happiness doesn't make your "everybody divorce advice" legitimate, correct, or more or less healthy in any given situation. Your "thinking" this about "happiness" doesn't negate every betrayed spouses right to choose how they want to live their own lives or gamble their futures. Maybe "happiness" isn't their paramount priority too. In fact, the odds of "happiness" either way is a crap-shoot and, in my opinion and experience, depends much more on the individual than any relationship. Actual research {research link}
indicates:

Quote:
Psychological well-being has shown mixed changes during recovery from the Great Recession. General happiness is up from a historical low in 2010 of 28.8% saying they are very happy to 32.5% being very happy in 2014 (+3.7 percentage points). The 2014 happiness level was near the 1972-2014 average for overall happiness of 33.3%. Marital happiness did not dip during the economic downtown, but showed a notable decrease in 2014 when only 59.9% were very happy. That was a decline of 3.1 points from 2010.
I have personal knowledge and experience with many very happily recovered couples and many happily divorced persons as well. I also know a few suffering and unhappy still recovering {hopefully} betrayed spouses and many suffering divorced betrayed spouses. Most of the marriages that incur infidelity were, no doubt, not in the 60% of "very happy" marriages with so taking such marriages, adding in adultery and making it a "very happy marriage" can be a challenge but it's not an insurmountable feat and it certainly happens more than .001% of the time and divorced persons certainly don't beat the odds and achieve "happiness" at a rate of 99%. My point is your numbers are way off and people {betrayed spouses} aren't statistics and only the betrayed spouse themselves, over time, can weigh out the odds along with their priorities, facts and circumstances to make a decision about their lives.



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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
it is the moral thing to do. It has nothing to do with being weak it has to do with settling for the lowest possible type of person in your life as your partner no less. Everyone should strive for better. All you have to do is read SI to see this 99% of the people who reconcile do it because of fear, and this is only encouraged by misguided people on there, many who also reconciled because of the same fear. Then they suffer for years mostly the rest of their lives. I hope anyone waffling will read these posts and draw some strength from them. YOUR LIFE WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU LEAVE!
A person dead set on denying reality, making up statistics and lying to hurting betrayed spouses desperate for advice and help indicating there is no hope and that they are hopeless, fear motivated and weak for even considering reconciliation in my book is a much lower person TODAY than someone like my wife or the spouses of many here who had an affair years ago and have since repented. Speaking mistruths and half-truths in order to persuade hopelessness is much more immoral than trying to assist someone honestly, objectively and informatively as they journey down their very own similar, yet unique infidelity decision path towards making 'healthy' choices. As the divorced guy you seem to be 'suffering for years' much more than me carrying around the burden and hatred for everybody else's wayward wife, which kind of goes against your point that you need to/must divorce to somehow stop the suffering or put it behind you. No matter what you do {divorce or reconcile}, it happened. But, perhaps there's something to some betrayed spouses having an apologetic, remorseful and regretful former wayward wife in our lives that do everything and anything to make it up to us that somehow alleviates such supposed suffering. On the other hand, it probably has more to do with forgiveness. I don't suffer or hold on to resentment. Ive long ago forgiven her and I've been way to fortunate in life to start weighing out fairness calculations.


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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
It's remarkable after the polygraph for instance, every post is about now there is a framework to build trust. Are these posters kidding. Like the person who was lying to you over and over again just weeks before is now trusted to never lie again, because they passed a poly, when they were absolute back into a corner and couldn't lie anymore. Like they can't and won't just start lying all over again. Lying is in their nature, it's what they do. What is the basis to say that there is a framework? This advice is just stupid and that that is the advice people are giving. The polygraph is celebrated as some sort of success. YOU ARE MARRIED TO SOMEONE WHO LIED TO YOU TO THE POINT THAT YOU NEED A MACHINE TO SEE WHAT WAS TRUE AND WHAT WERE LIES! There is not success in that, it's a tragedy. This should be common sense.
Lying is human nature. You're even doing it on this thread ~ like the outrageous claim you actually think divorced betrayed spouses end up 99% happy.

No one claimed a successful polygraph somehow magically makes the wayward trustworthy to never lie again. At best, it might be step one towards a long process of rebuilding trust over YEARS.

It IS common sense that a polygraph exam after betrayal is pretty much the lowest point of any marital relationship; but, yet, many couples survive it and still recover ~ happily. Like I said before, a year later there is no significant difference between the recovering couples that utilized a polygraph and the recovering couples that didn't. I even had to ask my wife about some of the couples we've helped and was surprised to be reminded of a few more of them than I initially recalled that did utilize a polygraph. In the end it's the actual affair and adultery that harm and end marriages, polygraphs have nothing to do with it other than a flat out refusals to take one is a pretty good way to figure out recovery isn't likely to happen in that particular situation.


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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
It's like encouraging the person, who was stolen from, to let the person who steals back in there house because they were caught and gave back the stuff. Yet this is what passes for good advice. All this when the person who has taken the poly has displayed the most despicable lack of character. News flash character doesn't change over night. Most of the time it doesn't really change at all. Nope, they finally after they were backed into a wall came clean, so all is good now, now you have your foundation. How can anyone encourage this in good conscience?

If a person is willing to lie that much it's in their nature, and just because they were busted doesn't mean their nature has changed. People encouraging someone to trust a person like that should be ashamed.
Yet people do this all the time {let thieves back into their home}. Often they're called children and people often choose to make exceptions and accommodations for their children. Maybe you'd be the type of guy to throw your son out onto the streets for stealing a loaf of bread. Other fathers might choose to do otherwise. If you struggle with the question of what to do with your thieving son I don't see why anyone would need to feel ashamed over helping you assess the question openly and honestly whereas telling the father of a thieving son there is only one answer and every other possible solution, consequence, action is immoral and stupid wouldn't be that informative, helpful or really even kind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
I am going to keep posting this over and over because I hope people will read this and see the truth.
I get it. So you're really not here to truly discuss or should I say "talk about" anything. Rather you are here to promote your agenda and immutable conclusion based upon your singular experience, some stuff you read on the cesspool forum SI while ignoring and denying the stated experiences of many others that divorce after infidelity is the ONLY healthy inevitable choice for just about everyone {excepting the 1 in 100,000 exception= .001%}. In other words, your threads like this one and posts aren't ever questions ~ you have no hypothesis ~ they're just statements or opinion.


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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Get out get away from someone who has such a complete lack of character.
My wife's "lack of character" wasn't "complete". It was fugacious, as was mine. We were both young and stupid. We both had a lot of learning and maturing to do as well as characters to develop. Character, or the lack thereof, is never static. The only way to "get out/get away" from anyone that may exhibit lack of character at any point in time is to simply avoid relationships altogether.


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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Don't base your life and your future on them.
My wife isn't a "them", she's the wife of my youth. My first wife. My only wife. If I chose to give her a chance to repent and redeem herself and make amends for her sins then that's my choice, my risk, my future just as it's the choice of every betrayed spouse to make the informed choices and decisions that suit them. From the sounds of it, your ex-wife wasn't worth risking your life and future on. Mine was and the gamble paid off for me, her and our children and generations thereafter. Like I said before, I'd have been happy either way because that's my nature; but overall and in hindsight, reconciling was certainly the right way to have gone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
You will suffer with them for the rest of your life, and in the end what do you get? A person who could look you in the eye and say they love you, and then spit at you behind your back. A person who is a proven liar, and will most likely lie to you again. A person who probably has no idea how to live an authentic life and will take a lifetime to learn using you as their test environment. And to do it you will have to subjugate your soul to some extent because you know deep down in your heart that you are settling. This is part of why you are in so much pain even years later, because you have given up control of your life to fear. Because you have given your agency to someone who abused you.

There is so much better out there for you but you have to be brave and leave.
So says you. I'm not suffering. I'm not in pain. I'm not now nor was I ever fearful of divorce and being on my own. I haven't "subjugated my soul" to anyone or anything whatever that means and I certainly wasn't settling as my wife is simply awesome, smart and beautiful and her long ago sins are as far from the east as the west. She doesn't own me and I don't own her ~ we just are "we". I simply chose to give reconciliation a chance and, after a sustained effort on both our parts to educate ourselves and work through the process everything worked out pretty good and now we stand together as a story of survival and perseverance to those struggling in their own marriages as we both assist, mentor and coach other couples making their own decisions and choices.

To be clear, I'm not special. We're not unique. Our marriage was just as over as every other marriage that endured infidelity and yet through prayer and God's amazing grace we pulled out it stronger and ended up happier than we ever were before.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #53 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 01:41 AM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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This is another great one that is just not factual, if you stay married you are never out of infidelity. It is a part of your marriage forever. It actually becomes the defining moment of your marriage and a lot of your relationship has to account for it. In a healthy marriage, this is not the case. Again read the posts of people 5, 10, 25 years out. It will always be mentioned, it will always be thought of every anniversary, if your kid is cheated on, when you see movies where infidelity is part of the story or hear about friends that were cheated on. There is no getting out of infidelity if you stay in the relationship where there is infidelity.

People always advise to get out of infidelity but never tell the truth that the only way to get out of infidelity is to leave the partner who cheated.
what are you talking about? i dont think about any of that stuff. i never really think of my wifes past infidelity except when i am reading threads on TAM.

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post #54 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 03:43 AM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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You know who normally take poly's criminals and ex-cons. It's a shame that a polygraph is encouraged as a way to move forward.
Wrong. Polygraphs are administered to prospective police applicants and to the military. Polygraphs are also required for some of the higher security clearances, especially those above top secret. I've taken two polygraphs, once when I was in the military because of the classified nature of my job, and the other time as the 2nd to the last step before becoming a police officer. And I'm pretty sure I'm not a criminal or ex-con.
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post #55 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Wrong. Polygraphs are administered to prospective police applicants and to the military. Polygraphs are also required for some of the higher security clearances, especially those above top secret. I've taken two polygraphs, once when I was in the military because of the classified nature of my job, and the other time as the 2nd to the last step before becoming a police officer. And I'm pretty sure I'm not a criminal or ex-con.
Stop with the strawman. I guess context is too subtle for you.

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post #56 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 11:57 AM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Stop with the strawman.
He countered your argument of "normally criminals." No, not a strawman.

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I guess context is too subtle for you.
No, you framed your "subtle" point poorly in "context." It actually fits your argument and the moving goal posts included.
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post #57 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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what are you talking about? i dont think about any of that stuff. i never really think of my wifes past infidelity except when i am reading threads on TAM.
Hence you are not out of it, any time infidelity comes up it reminds you of her past. This is my point, the people saying you can get out of it are wrong, it will always be there.

The honest answer is you will always be reminded of it. It may not hurt as much but it will be there in your marriage.
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post #58 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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He countered your argument of "normally criminals." No, not a strawman.

No, you framed your "subtle" point poorly in "context." It actually fits your argument and the moving goal posts included.
Here I will make is simple, understand that your SO is being given a poly in the same context that a suspected criminal is given one. That doesn't put them in a very good light. My post was never about why people are given polys (I am amazed I have to point this out, but I guess I shouldn't be) I know there are other reasons, your argument is a strawman.
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post #59 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:08 PM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Here I will make is simple, understand that your SO is being given a poly in the same context that a suspected criminal is given one. That doesn't put them in a very good light. My post was never about why people are given polys (I am amazed I have to point this out, but I guess I shouldn't be) I know there are other reasons, your argument is a strawman.
Nope, not a straw man. You go ahead and keep moving the goal posts.

Not my argument either, but please continue.
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post #60 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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Re: Why would anyone want to be married to someone who they have to give a polygraph

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Hence you are not out of it, any time infidelity comes up it reminds you of her past. This is my point, the people saying you can get out of it are wrong, it will always be there.

The honest answer is you will always be reminded of it. It may not hurt as much but it will be there in your marriage.
i would NEVER be out of it then. it does not bother me at all today, but if i were to divorce my wife, guess what, my memory is not wiped clean. its not like i am going to magically wake up one day and suddenly not have any memories of past events.

like i said, it doesnt hurt. you are projecting.

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