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post #136 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 09:23 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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The bolded sounds very interesting, Apexmale. Could you elaborate, please?
Which part?

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post #137 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 11:50 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Which part?
This: "The only personal path I have discovered which minimizes a woman to cheat has nothing to do with morals and integrity. It is simply not placing so many limitations and boundaries on her. I'm her companion, not her owner."

In particular, the part about not placing so many limitations and boundaries.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #138 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 03:02 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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This: "The only personal path I have discovered which minimizes a woman to cheat has nothing to do with morals and integrity. It is simply not placing so many limitations and boundaries on her. I'm her companion, not her owner."

In particular, the part about not placing so many limitations and boundaries.
As children, our lives are mostly pleasure and play. As adults, women often have feelings of being cut off from this paradise, of being weighed down by responsibilities, roles, limits, and boundaries. Over time, this repression of a woman creates a hidden portion of who she is. That portion of themselves is dying to be overwhelmed. Every woman is oppressed by the role she is supposed to play in society. She is supposed to be the softer, moralizing force in society, and is told she is suppose to want lifelong loyalty and commitment. None of these things are her choice. Limits and boundaries placed on a woman start at a very young age. The majority of women conform to whatever is normal for them at the time. They play the role alloted to them by society. Beginning with her parents, then as they progress in life, friends and society impose rules in which she must follow to fit in. Conformity is a constant because humans are social creatures who are always imitating eachother. Too often, when a woman marries, it is the the norm that a husband places additional restrictions on her involving what she can wear, who she can talk to, where she can work, and how she carries herself as a married woman. Too often, her relationships and marriage give her nothing but routine and a husband who is demanding and always working. A woman then creates in herself a fantasy of having a man who commits himself to her in his entirety, free of expectations, he lives for her, he lusts for her, even if just for awhile.

A woman is born with her own body. She always remains free to give that body to whomever she decides. Whether it goes to a man, or a woman makes no difference. The choice remains hers. When a man comes along and demands ownership, either through a simple relationship or through marriage, it's nothing more than a false claim. No man can own a woman and the very first chance she gets, she will prove it to him. These forums are full of stories of women who did just that. Being married made no difference.

Husbands repress thier wives more than what she has already been repressed before they met. To a woman, fantasy is much more pleasurable to her than the reality she has already experienced. Some of the easiest examples come in the form of the care a woman takes with her hair, her make-up, her jewels, her wardrobes.... not much of these things that a man takes great notice in is the actual woman herself. The role a woman was given is not the role she has to always accept. She can always live out a role of her own creation and many times, it is directly tied to her repressed desires.

A man who understands this concept of lifting a woman's limitations and boundaries has a great appeal to a woman. By restoring a woman to her whole self, she will never feel more alive and never feel more of a committment to this man. Again, even if it's just temporary.

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post #139 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:27 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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As children, our lives are mostly pleasure and play. As adults, women often have feelings of being cut off from this paradise, of being weighed down by responsibilities, roles, limits, and boundaries. Over time, this repression of a woman creates a hidden portion of who she is. That portion of themselves is dying to be overwhelmed. Every woman is oppressed by the role she is supposed to play in society. She is supposed to be the softer, moralizing force in society, and is told she is suppose to want lifelong loyalty and commitment. None of these things are her choice. Limits and boundaries placed on a woman start at a very young age. The majority of women conform to whatever is normal for them at the time. They play the role alloted to them by society. Beginning with her parents, then as they progress in life, friends and society impose rules in which she must follow to fit in. Conformity is a constant because humans are social creatures who are always imitating eachother. Too often, when a woman marries, it is the the norm that a husband places additional restrictions on her involving what she can wear, who she can talk to, where she can work, and how she carries herself as a married woman. Too often, her relationships and marriage give her nothing but routine and a husband who is demanding and always working. A woman then creates in herself a fantasy of having a man who commits himself to her in his entirety, free of expectations, he lives for her, he lusts for her, even if just for awhile.

A woman is born with her own body. She always remains free to give that body to whomever she decides. Whether it goes to a man, or a woman makes no difference. The choice remains hers. When a man comes along and demands ownership, either through a simple relationship or through marriage, it's nothing more than a false claim. No man can own a woman and the very first chance she gets, she will prove it to him. These forums are full of stories of women who did just that. Being married made no difference.

Husbands repress thier wives more than what she has already been repressed before they met. To a woman, fantasy is much more pleasurable to her than the reality she has already experienced. Some of the easiest examples come in the form of the care a woman takes with her hair, her make-up, her jewels, her wardrobes.... not much of these things that a man takes great notice in is the actual woman herself. The role a woman was given is not the role she has to always accept. She can always live out a role of her own creation and many times, it is directly tied to her repressed desires.

A man who understands this concept of lifting a woman's limitations and boundaries has a great appeal to a woman. By restoring a woman to her whole self, she will never feel more alive and never feel more of a committment to this man. Again, even if it's just temporary.
Um... That sounds really good, and briefs well, until one considers that men can only legally take from a woman but she is willingly giving away (and vice versa).

Your assumption in this post opines that:

1. Women have no agency to either prevent it from happening or to say something when it has happened.

2. Male spouses are systematically setting about to restrict their female partners.

It reads like a cliched script from a bad Lifetime movie, and while it no doubt does happen, I would argue that it is much more the exception than the rule.

If a woman has to hide herself from her husband, either she has problems with communication or she chose poorly her husband.

Additionally, I would further argue that better than half (and likely closer to three quarters) of the cases that present themselves here and sites like SI are because of a lack of boundaries in a relationship.

Yes, children seek out pleasure and play. Adults have to make adult decisions, which includes making sacrifices. There ain't no free lunch; marriage is no different. If a man running roughshod over a woman in a marriage is so prevalent, why is NMMNG recommended to nearly every male poster that sets foot in this site?

Frankly, there needs to be less emphasis on trying to figure out why both men and women make poor choices, and more time spent emphasizing taking back their agency. With agency comes responsibility. When we understand that we are responsible for our decisions, and all of the consequences that come along with them, suddenly there is a greater emphasis on making the right ones. This is why we see over and over and over again the effectiveness of showing any wayward spouse, whether male or female, consequences for their choice to cheat.

But then again, that requires that we grow up. And going back to your original post, there's almost a suggestion that women don't want to. I'm not necessarily buying that, as there was just a post earlier today by @turnera suggesting that wives have to wait for their husbands to grow up. So, which is it?

The more I think about it, and the longer I'm here, I believe more and more that it comes down to the fact that the world is filled with selfish jerks. We make decisions that hurt people because we're selfish. That's not a man or a woman thing, but a people thing. Anything else anybody sells trying to be gender-specific often smells like the stuff I periodically shovel from my barn.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley

Last edited by farsidejunky; 02-06-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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post #140 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:39 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

If a man running roughshod over a woman in a marriage is so prevalent, why is NMMNG recommended to nearly every male poster that sets foot in this site?

@farsidejunky

Remember, this site attracts a certain type of man, usually men who feel victimized by women. So while NMMNG might be a helpful read for these men, it may not fit other men.

It is like a board for men having gluten issues. Those men need specific advice for dealing with it. But if the majority of men do not suffer from it, they likely have no need for that advice.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #141 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:59 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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If a man running roughshod over a woman in a marriage is so prevalent, why is NMMNG recommended to nearly every male poster that sets foot in this site?

@farsidejunky

Remember, this site attracts a certain type of man, usually men who feel victimized by women. So while NMMNG might be a helpful read for these men, it may not fit other men.

It is like a board for men having gluten issues. Those men need specific advice for dealing with it. But if the majority of men do not suffer from it, they likely have no need for that advice.
So, following that same logic, should I also point out to @turnera that this site only attract certain types of women, and tell her she's wrong as well?

And just what is that certain type of woman that this site attracts?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #142 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:04 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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So, following that same logic, should I also point out to @turnera that this site only attract certain types of women, and tell her she's wrong as well?

And just what is that certain type of woman that this site attracts?
Do you think it does attract only one type of woman?

Just because something may be true for one sex does not mean it will necessarily be true for the other. I think relationship forums may attract a variety of types of women, but only a narrow range of men.

Jmo.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #143 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:08 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Do you think it does attract only one type of woman?

Just because something may be true for one sex does not mean it will necessarily be true for the other. I think relationship forums may attract a variety of types of women, but only a narrow range of men.

Jmo.
I spell confirmation bias.

ETA:

I believe there is a range for both sexes. I believe it men impacted by infidelity are more likely to come to a site than women simply because we are typically not as good at maintaining social networks in real life.

So I will agree there are trends, but I believe your assessment of a narrow range of men is confirmation bias.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #144 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:14 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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I spell confirmation bias.

ETA:

I believe there is a range for both sexes. I believe it men impacted by infidelity are more likely to come to a site than women simply because we are typically not as good at maintaining social networks in real life.

So I will agree there are trends, but I believe your assessment of a narrow range of men is confirmation bias.
How do you see confirmation bias?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #145 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:18 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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A man who understands this concept of lifting a woman's limitations and boundaries has a great appeal to a woman. By restoring a woman to her whole self, she will never feel more alive and never feel more of a committment to this man. Again, even if it's just temporary.
Could you elaborate on these ideas, please, Apexmale? I am not quite following you.

How do you "lift a woman's limitations and boundaries"?

How exactly is a woman "restored to her whole self"?

How does that cause a commitment to a man, and why would it just be temporary?


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #146 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:27 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Um... That sounds really good, and briefs well, until one considers that men can only legally take from a woman but she is willingly giving away (and vice versa).
I can only speak from what my personal experience has taught me. My personal experience includes relationships with 6 different married women in my younger, single days. And I learned a hell of a lot.

And you are right in that men can only take what willing women will offer. The goal, is to get her to offer what you want. And if sex is the goal, lifting boundaries and limitations has been (for me), the key. Knowing these things as a married man serves no other function than to understand how to protect my own marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
Your assumption in this post opines that:

1. Women have no agency to either prevent it from happening or to say something when it has happened.
Aren't parents the first to begin dictating to daughters what is acceptable behavior and what is not? This process is unpreventable. We all become obliviois to the process and we continue it well into adulthood. Individual repression continues into womanhood a lot longer than it does for men.

Quote:
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2. Male spouses are systematically setting about to restrict their female partners.
Do husbands not tell thier wives, either directly or indirectly, what she can wear, who is acceptable to converse with, where she can work, and what activity she can partake in to name a few?

Read around these forums about men having difficulty with what their spouses have worn or what their spouses are now wearing.

Read around these forums about disgruntled men whose wives are having conversations that they deem "inappropriate" behavior.

Read around these forums about jealous husbands who are having difficulty with activity at their wives place of employment.

Read around these forums about men who are discussing the difficulty in "allowing" their wives out dancing with her friends or even staying out late.

It's my experience, that I support my own wife in whatever she wants to wear, wherever she wants to wear it, and however she wants to wear it. If it's low cut, a short skirt, or even if it involves Daisy Dukes... the choice is hers nonetheless. And I tell you, I'm happy she does sometimes! It's also my experience that if she wants to go clubbing with her friends, she can. If she wants to stay out late on "girls night out", she can. The minute I begin to tell my wife what she can and cannot do, I risk another man crossing her path reiterating to her she really can.



Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
If a woman has to hide herself from her husband, either she has problems with communication or she chose poorly her husband.
Every man and woman hides a portion of themselves from the other.



Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
When we understand that we are responsible for our decisions, and all of the consequences that come along with them, suddenly there is a greater emphasis on making the right ones. This is why we see over and over and over again the effectiveness of showing any wayward spouse, whether male or female, consequences for their choice to cheat.
As a single male, and as stated earlier, there were no consequences for me. I had no vows to anyone, no promises, and no obligations. I had nothing to lose, and so much to learn.

You know that sound you sometimes hear of something falling inside the cubbard when you close the door? That is the sound of someone else's problem.
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post #147 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:29 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Additionally, I would further argue that better than half (and likely closer to three quarters) of the cases that present themselves here and sites like SI are because of a lack of boundaries in a relationship.
But why are the boundaries breached, far? Isn't that the more important question?

If your wife does not actually cheat, but burns in her heart for another man, does that really make you feel better?

Quote:
Frankly, there needs to be less emphasis on trying to figure out why both men and women make poor choices, and more time spent emphasizing taking back their agency. With agency comes responsibility. When we understand that we are responsible for our decisions, and all of the consequences that come along with them, suddenly there is a greater emphasis on making the right ones. This is why we see over and over and over again the effectiveness of showing any wayward spouse, whether male or female, consequences for their choice to cheat.
Is that what we really want, though, people who do not cheat because they are fearful of the consequences? Does that really make either of them feel loved and safe in the relationship?

Is the simple absence of cheating enough?

Quote:
But then again, that requires that we grow up. And going back to your original post, there's almost a suggestion that women don't want to. I'm not necessarily buying that, as there was just a post earlier today by @turnera suggesting that wives have to wait for their husbands to grow up. So, which is it?
Why would it have to be just one or the other?

Quote:
The more I think about it, and the longer I'm here, I believe more and more that it comes down to the fact that the world is filled with selfish jerks. We make decisions that hurt people because we're selfish. That's not a man or a woman thing, but a people thing. Anything else anybody sells trying to be gender-specific often smells like the stuff I periodically shovel from my barn.
Far, if you do not think there are differences between men and women . . . then I just do not know what to say.

Some people purposely do things to be hurtful. Some people simply do not realize what they are doing. Some people get in over their heads. And there can be combinations of all of these.

Life is messy. Humans are complicated.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #148 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:39 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Originally Posted by Apexmale View Post
Individual repression continues into womanhood a lot longer than it does for men.
I think RT addressed that when he said that men are often congratulated for having affairs, while women do not usually get that sort of affirmation. Is that correct, @Relationship Teacher?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #149 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:44 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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I can only speak from what my personal experience has taught me. My personal experience includes relationships with 6 different married women in my younger, single days. And I learned a hell of a lot.

And you are right in that men can only take what willing women will offer. The goal, is to get her to offer what you want. And if sex is the goal, lifting boundaries and limitations has been (for me), the key. Knowing these things as a married man serves no other function than to understand how to protect my own marriage.



Aren't parents the first to begin dictating to daughters what is acceptable behavior and what is not? This process is unpreventable. We all become obliviois to the process and we continue it well into adulthood. Individual repression continues into womanhood a lot longer than it does for men.



Do husbands not tell thier wives, either directly or indirectly, what she can wear, who is acceptable to converse with, where she can work, and what activity she can partake in to name a few?

Read around these forums about men having difficulty with what their spouses have worn or what their spouses are now wearing.

Read around these forums about disgruntled men whose wives are having conversations that they deem "inappropriate" behavior.

Read around these forums about jealous husbands who are having difficulty with activity at their wives place of employment.

Read around these forums about men who are discussing the difficulty in "allowing" their wives out dancing with her friends or even staying out late.

It's my experience, that I support my own wife in whatever she wants to wear, wherever she wants to wear it, and however she wants to wear it. If it's low cut, a short skirt, or even if it involves Daisy Dukes... the choice is hers nonetheless. And I tell you, I'm happy she does sometimes! It's also my experience that if she wants to go clubbing with her friends, she can. If she wants to stay out late on "girls night out", she can. The minute I begin to tell my wife what she can and cannot do, I risk another man crossing her path reiterating to her she really can.





Every man and woman hides a portion of themselves from the other.





As a single male, and as stated earlier, there were no consequences for me. I had no vows to anyone, no promises, and no obligations. I had nothing to lose, and so much to learn.

You know that sound you sometimes hear of something falling inside the cubbard when you close the door? That is the sound of someone else's problem.
This is just mumbo jumbo from a wanna be player who could only score with married women who were having problems in their marriages and vulnerable to some would be pick up artist.How did you fare out with single women of your own age.I wouldn't think you did very well.Trying to justify ruining someone's marriage because you have the amazing abilities to spot a vulnerable woman isn't that impressive dude.You do realise that these women were playing you as much if not more than you were playing them.
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post #150 of 281 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 05:50 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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This is just mumbo jumbo from a wanna be player who could only score with married women who were having problems in their marriages and vulnerable to some would be pick up artist.How did you fare out with single women of your own age.I wouldn't think you did very well.Trying to justify ruining someone's marriage because you have the amazing abilities to spot a vulnerable woman isn't that impressive dude.You do realise that these women were playing you as much if not more than you were playing them.
I had plenty of "regular relationships". Not enough in my opinion and too many in my wife's opinion.

You can believe it's all mumbo jumbo, in fact it's required for the process. Men who deny themselves the reality that mindsets of that type, such as mine in my youth, exists in men is what is so crucial to be that much more effective.

And as stated before, none of the marriages broke apart and to my knowledge, none of the women discussed thier activity with their husbands.

And yes, these women played me too. I was quite alright with it.
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