RT's Ultimate Affair Plan - Page 19 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #271 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 11:34 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
Not sure where you get that number from. It's probably closer to 10%, but most will never know their partner stepped out.
It was a very large study done. I know may who have never cheated and never would.

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post #272 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:47 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Not sure where you get that number from. It's probably closer to 10%, but most will never know their partner stepped out.
Do you honestly believe that 90% of committed exclusive relationship partners cheat?

I know you didn't get that from any sort of study, it just sounds good or something, or maybe validates your wayward wife's actions in your own mind or because it's been your own personal experience you project this onto others. But it's completely untrue.
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post #273 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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It was a very large study done. I know may who have never cheated and never would.
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Do you honestly believe that 90% of committed exclusive relationship partners cheat?

I know you didn't get that from any sort of study, it just sounds good or something, or maybe validates your wayward wife's actions in your own mind or because it's been your own personal experience you project this onto others. But it's completely untrue.
The numbers are all over the place in regards to how many cheat. I've talked about it a lot in this thread, referencing the most widely cited research (Glass & Wright). It is safer to be VERY specific in how one qualifies "cheating". In Treating Infidelity (Weeks, et. al, 2003), we see this dilemma brought up. If we are going to reference statistics, then lets describe what they mean. 20-70% is the range. The higher end includes more types of cheating. The low end of the range is exclusive of a lot of things. Consider it like you would a definition. Then there are the many studies that present statistics of about half of all married couples include an instance of an affair. The ultimate answer is very hard to know. Researchers can fail to get the accurate number for a lot of reasons, even if their methods are sound.

For me, it is best for each couple to make their own definition of what constitutes cheating and set appropriate boundaries. Solo masturbation could be cheating to one couple. "Soft-swapping" could be harmless to another.

That said, I have seen higher numbers than 70%, but that has only been from blogs or articles. Those sources might reference the published journal literature, but be taking it out of context or misquoting it. They also might reference some online survey done, which isn't really scientifically valid, given the inability to get a representative sample.

I have briefly referenced the statistics. If more information about them is desired, please make a specific request so that I can look through my library.
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post #274 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:13 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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The numbers are all over the place in regards to how many cheat. . 20-70% is the range.
So in summary, from your research, the statistics are useless.

Got it.
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post #275 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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So in summary, from your research, the statistics are useless.

Got it.

The low end of the range (20%) is going to be mostly only looking at sexual affairs.

The high end of the range (70%) is going to be looking at sex, kissing, watching pornography, flirting, etc.

The cleanest, most digestible number is around 50%, which includes a definition of cheating that the median individual can understand and relate to.

All I can say is that we have to understand what the statistics tell us and be very specific in doing so.
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post #276 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:31 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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The low end of the range (20%) is going to be mostly only looking at sexual affairs.

The high end of the range (70%) is going to be looking at sex, kissing, watching pornography, flirting, etc.
Where do foot massages fit into this whole thing? I'm asking for a friend.
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post #277 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

A final note to the unfaithful partner. Keep in mind that the process tends to be circular, needing to be repeated.

Have you apologized to the betrayed?

Did you acknowledge the extent of the infidelity? This involves disclosing details which allows the betrayed a lot of closure and understanding.

Have you demonstrated remorse?

Have you exhibited a willingness to change?

Have you cooperated to build safeguards to ensure behavior change?




Reference: Treating Infidelity, Forgiveness is a systemic phenomenon, p. 132 (Weeks, et. al., 2003)
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post #278 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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The low end of the range (20%) is going to be mostly only looking at sexual affairs.

The high end of the range (70%) is going to be looking at sex, kissing, watching pornography, flirting, etc.

The cleanest, most digestible number is around 50%, which includes a definition of cheating that the median individual can understand and relate to.

All I can say is that we have to understand what the statistics tell us and be very specific in doing so.
While flirting etc isnt right its not cheating in the real sense.
I have heard that about 50% of married people will cheat at some point. Sounds about right from my experience of the many I have known.
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post #279 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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While flirting etc isnt right its not cheating in the real sense.
I have heard that about 50% of married people will cheat at some point. Sounds about right from my experience of the many I have known.
I agree with your 50% comment.

As far as what is and is not cheating, it is best for the individual couple to come up with what constitutes a violation of marital boundaries in terms of "cheating". This way we eliminate the excuses like the following:

-it was just sex
-it didn't mean anything
-we only kissed
-I wasn't going to sleep with him/her


The more difficult to address are those that take away energy from the relationship but aren't the typical type of cheating. This tends to concern the male partner diverting sexual and emotional energy to porn. There is a professional battle about how to define cheating, infidelity, and affairs, so I may present the results of this to help clarify terms for everyone here.
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post #280 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Catch up on the UAP
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan


Today's post is highly interactive and can be very rewarding to every single couple. That said, I urge every couple to consider implementing the contents of this post, although it seems to be written for newer couples. Most couples don't go through a formal process of setting boundaries and examining them, making this very helpful to do at any time.

I was pondering for weeks as to how to approach boundaries in the UAP, but I ultimately decided to go a practical route versus being informative. Part of this is because the scientific literature doesn't single out boundaries that much. This is no stretch. What they do single out are risk factors. I give clients a real good lesson on boundaries, especially in self-enforcement, but for this forum I want to make it more couples-oriented.

The best source I found was from the Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy, entitled Affair-Proofing Questions: Discussion Questions for Couples. The article is very straight forward, offering the typical prototype and explanation of an affair. The meat of the article is to help guide couples through a process of discovery, which ultimately brings them closer to one another. In a relationship, it is common for rules or expectations to be left unsaid, which leaves the other partner with too much of a leash. They often find themselves rationalizing bad behavior because it was never prohibited by their partner.

All of these questions are directly from the research article. Discuss them with your beloved. When having this conversation, use my 80/20 rule, paraphrase and ask questions for understanding, and be honest. (80/20 means listening 80 percent of the time when its the other partner's turn). Save the disputes and arguments for later. This exercise is all about engendering mutual understanding. Coming to an agreement on the terms of the boundaries will be hashed out after each person's position is understood.

Enjoy!

Affair-proofing part 1 (1)

1. How do you define infidelity?

(my comments: It may be necessary to specifically ask about different aspects of infidelity, such as dinner with person of opposite sex, kissing, flirting, etc.. Make no assumptions)

2. Sophie has gotten close to a man she knows from work. Her husband, Ted,
knew nothing about the relationship until he discovered some flirtatious
emails between them. Ted is furious that Sophie is communicating with this
man. Although the man lives in a neighboring state, Ted cannot help but
wonder if they have been seeing each other during business trips. Sophie
says that the emails mean nothing —she was just joking around, and Ted
has nothing to worry about. How can Ted and Sophie handle this situation?
What do they need to do next?


3. A woman caught her partner downloading pornography from various
websites. The woman is outraged by what she sees as “sick behavior” and
feels betrayed. She cannot understand the “need” to use pornography. Her
partner is embarrassed and feels ashamed about getting caught but says,
“It’s no big deal. I was just curious.” Is this a problem? What should the
woman do? What should her partner do?


4. Assuming a couple wants to stay together, what can they do to get beyond
an affair?



5. Do you have to fully trust your partner to begin healing your relationship
after an affair? Can you really trust someone who has cheated on you?
How do you rebuild trust?


6. A couple has been together for eight years and has three children together.
Recently, it was discovered that one of the partners had an emotional
affair that eventually turned into a sexual affair. The unfaithful partner
is scared, confused, and unsure about ending the affair. How can this
couple handle this situation? What do they need to do?


7. Jim had an affair two years ago and Lisa is still grieving and angry at him.
According to Jim, she brings up the affair 5 to 6 times each day. She still
feels mad or upset most of the time, even though Jim says it is over, that he
is sorry, and that he has stayed faithful. How can Jim and Lisa handle this
situation? What do Jim and Lisa need to do next?


8. How do affairs negatively affect children?

9. What can you do to affair-proof your relationship?


I will post the affair-prevention plan next. It is another activity for the couple.



Reference:

1). Piercy, F., et. al (2011). Affair-Proofing Relationships: Discussion Questions for Couples. Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy, 10:345–362, 2011

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post #281 of 281 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Catch up on the UAP
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan
RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Affair proof your relationship. This is a simple exercise meant to increase understanding and awareness on the topic, but to also come up with a more formal plan on what constitutes the relational boundaries. Discuss with your partner all of these questions, each coming up with a response as it relates to you, your partner, and the relationship.



• What behaviors would you consider to be infidelity and why?
• What guidelines do you and your partner want to agree upon around
socializing and communicating with others?
• What understandings and expectations do you and your partner have
around computer use, pornography, and chat rooms?
• What can you and your partner do to prioritize and nurture your relationship?
• Are you willing to promise to your partner that you will remain faithful?
Consider making that promise together at a special time and place.
• What can you and your partner do to nurture emotional intimacy in your
relationship?
• How might you and your partner show appreciation and love to one another
on a regular basis?
• What can you and your partner do to keep your sex life alive?
• How will you celebrate your love, anniversaries, birthdays, and other special
occasions?
(my added questions)
• What will you do to protect the relationship from boundary violations relating to your behavior?
• What will you do to protect the relationship from boundary violations relating to my behavior?
• What do you consider boundary violations.?

Reference:

1). Piercy, F., et. al (2011). Affair-Proofing Relationships: Discussion Questions for Couples. Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy, 10:345–362, 2011
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