RT's Ultimate Affair Plan - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #16 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
The question was asked of me, you don't have to like my answer.


"if a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." - Leviticus 20:10

Going by old testament law the adulterer is dead no need for divorce. Your point is moot.

God hates divorce it's true, but he puts to death the adulterer so divorce is not applicable in this case. By the way, that meant in the old testament you didn't even get a chance to R, because God overruled you and ordered your WS put to death. I wonder why that is, maybe God like me thinks for the most part it's pointless.
Well under the new law God doesn't put adulterers to death, nor did He put to death all of us humans whom murdered His son {though we are dead in spirit absent repentance and faith in Him}.

He still hates divorce.

Again ~~~ what you "think" is pointless is no where near as relevant {since you've never experienced infidelity} as what I and many others here and everywhere have actually experienced whether happily divorced or happily reconciled.

As ChrisH {forum adminstrator} posted as guidelines to this sub-forum:

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Originally Posted by Chris H. View Post
The Coping With Infidelity forum is an area for both betrayed and wayward spouses to post about, and discuss the circumstances and very powerful emotions surrounding infidelity.

For those that choose to participate in or contribute to these discussions, it is very important to be aware of your own circumstances in relation to, or how they differ from others.

It is also very important to be aware of the Forum Rules.

Affairs are very destructive. But relationships can, and do recover from them. Be supportive of those choosing to make that effort.
You were neither a betrayed nor wayward spouse and have no direct knowledge of such "circumstances". You post and contribute with seeming unawareness of your own circumstances in relation with others here and their circumstances and you continually deny Chris's basic premise that relationships can, and do recover from affairs while being completely unsupportive of those considering and/or choosing to make that effort.

Finally, since I KNOW you are not sinless yourself ~~~~>>>

"There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you" James 2:13 NLT



I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #17 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:33 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Thing is - this is more of a - we all marry expecting our partner to treat us great AND remain loyal.

Obviously it doesn't always play out like that.

Anyway it's fine - for those of you who would walk. I'm cool with that. Its just been my experience that most folks who say that, find it much harder to walk away when faced with the actual situation.



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While I appreciate your thought out posts, but inferring that folks who divorce over infidelity possibly do it because they lack ability, personality or empathy for forgiveness is myopic and arrogant.

I have forgiven much over the years and would forgive my wife her infidelity if she strayed. She would however, not be my wife afterwards.

God hates sexual immorality as well as divorce and saying He hates divorce far more than adultery is not accurate.
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post #18 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:37 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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While I appreciate your thought out posts, but inferring that folks who divorce over infidelity possibly do it because they lack ability, personality or empathy for forgiveness is myopic and arrogant.

I have forgiven much over the years and would forgive my wife her infidelity if she strayed. She would however, not be my wife afterwards.

God hates sexual immorality as well as divorce and saying He hates divorce far more than adultery is not accurate.
Good points. I used the word "possibly" because I don't know. I'm not trying to disparage those that choose to divorce nor the many that divorce without any chance or choices whatsoever as those persons may be the most able, strong, empathetic, forgiving persons ever yet still be divorced. I have a constitution that has enabled me to be forgiving, empathetic and merciful and I believe that was/is pleasing to God. Your opinion and experience may vary.

I'm not better than any betrayed spouse that ended up divorced. I was absolutely convinced that's where I was headed myself at one time through little fault of my own {neither of us were good at marriage back then}. I've also helped many betrayed husbands through the divorce process after a noble attempt at trying to save their wives and families from the consequences of divorce and spiritual death. I'm not anti-divorce.

I also am not trying to indicate that God hates divorce MORE than adultery. Just indicating He hates divorce as well as emphasizing His message of faith, hope, love along with mercy, repentance and forgiveness.
"Three things will last forever--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:13 NLT

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post #19 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:43 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Well under the new law God doesn't put adulterers to death, nor did He put to death all of us humans whom murdered His son {though we are dead in spirit absent repentance and faith in Him}.

He still hates divorce.

Again ~~~ what you "think" is pointless is no where near as relevant {since you've never experienced infidelity} as what I and many others here and everywhere have actually experienced whether happily divorced or happily reconciled.

As ChrisH {forum adminstrator} posted as guidelines to this sub-forum:



You were neither a betrayed nor wayward spouse and have no direct knowledge of such "circumstances". You post and contribute with seeming unawareness of your own circumstances in relation with others here and their circumstances and you continually deny Chris's basic premise that relationships can, and do recover from affairs while being completely unsupportive of those considering and/or choosing to make that effort.

Finally, since I KNOW you are not sinless yourself ~~~~>>>

"There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you" James 2:13 NLT
First off your premise of mercy and forgiveness has nothing to do with staying in the marriage. I believe whole heartedly that the BS should and is commanded to forgive. I believe that command is for the BS benefit more then the WS. Living with hate and unforgiveness will kill you. It is useful though at first to get out of adultery.

Besides that before if they cheated they were dead now they get to live, sounds like mercy to me. I think people who repent should be able to start over, I just don't think it is healthy for the BS, besides that that wasn't even what the post was about. It was about the silly hypothetical that was posted that I rejected outright. I admit it was rude of me to jump all over the teachers post though. I can be kind of an ass at times.

Second since you want to talk scripture (you brought up) God is the same yesterday, today and forever, as I am sure you know as it is used all the time for other things, that leads me to believe he has absolutely no problem with you leaving for Adultery since he was basically going to kill the WS. Again in the old testament you didn't even get to stay with your WS you were COMMANDED TO STONE THEM TO DEATH. (that seems very harsh to me, but can't deny it says it there)

In the new testament he give you the mercy of staying if you want, but the preponderance of evidence (since the WS was dead in the OT) is that God doesn't expect you to stay because he hates divorce. Same yesterday, today and forever right. So it doesn't make sense that now that we have the new covenant he expects the offended party to live with a worse deal then you did before. Name any other way where the new covenant works that way? Nope the mercy in this case is to the WS, and the BS if they should choose to stay together. The old testament commandment and not have to put there WS to death is void. You know kind of like how we can now eat pork. You don't have to kill you cheating spouse now. You can just divorce them. Seems like a good deal.

Um an Quality I don't care if you think what I say has pointless or not. I don't care if you think that just because I wasn't married when I was cheated on I didn't feel the same pain or have to make the same difficult choice. I know my own mind and married or not I would have made the same choice, even more so since I survived the first time. Finally I am not writing to convince you. If you feel differently that's fine, but quit trying to invalidate my opinion. I have a right to it just as you have yours.

Last edited by sokillme; 01-26-2017 at 10:48 PM.
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post #20 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:51 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Well what you are asking is would you rather eat dog shyt or cat shyt.

I don't eat at either restaurant. I have other choices.

I would never put up with an unsatisfactory marriage or my woman fvcking another man.

Just me. Some would honestly choose one of your options but I don't have limited choices and I require more.
See, it's so hard with the written word because I could {but I don't} take equal offense to these counter-implications.

I didn't have limited choices. I didn't really WANT to divorce but had we, I'd have been fine and found happiness. It was my wife and the mother of my chidrens' life I was more worried about at the time.

I and many other betrayed spouses that reconciled DID require more as well. I didn't rug sweep the adultery and just go about our young marriage as it previously existed. I got a new and better marriage. One that I didn't even know was possible and do not currently believe I had the ability, empathy, etc to have achieved any other way. The idiom it is better to give than receive is applicable here. I learned and have received countless blessings due to having been forgiving, loving and merciful towards my wife.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen

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post #21 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 10:56 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

I
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Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Thing is - this is more of a - we all marry expecting our partner to treat us great AND remain loyal.

Obviously it doesn't always play out like that.

Anyway it's fine - for those of you who would walk. I'm cool with that. Its just been my experience that most folks who say that, find it much harder to walk away when faced with the actual situation.
I have seen, helped and approved of many recons after infidelity.

As we have discussed and I have appreciated, your input, I am very good at being me.

Others need to play to their strengths and protect their weak side as well.

My best friend reconned successfully and I helped him.

He has different gifts and strengths than I. We admire in each other what we don't possess or need to develop.
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post #22 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 11:07 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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See, it's so hard with the written word because I could take equal offense to these counter-implications.

I didn't have limited choices. I didn't really WANT to divorce but had we, I'd have been fine and found happiness. It was my wife and the mother of my chidrens' life I was more worried about at the time.

I and many other betrayed spouses that reconciled DID require more as well. I didn't rug sweep the adultery and just go about our young marriage as it previously existed. I got a new and better marriage. One that I didn't even know was possible and do not currently believe I had the ability, empathy, etc to have achieved any other way. The idiom it is better to give than receive is applicable here. I learned and have received countless blessings due to having been forgiving, loving and merciful towards my wife.
I wasn't actually addressing any real case of infidelity.

I was addressing his hypothetical question.

When asked which evil do I choose? The answer is no.

My best friend is wired differently than me and reconciled with his very wayward wife with my help and approval even though I would not have taken his path.

I pretty much affair proofed my marriage from the start though having seen far too much harm from people treating their families and marriages like sewage and even themselves through infidelity.

It wasn't going to enter my marriage unaware or unchallenged.

I have seen many that just didn't protect against it so it occurred.

But having laid my groundwork and after a lifetime of pain, I will not stay with an unfaithful woman though I know, and hope, adulterers can change.
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post #23 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 11:13 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post

Um an Quality I don't care if you think what I say has pointless or not. I don't care if you think that just because I wasn't married when I was cheated on I didn't feel the same pain or have to make the same difficult choice. I know my own mind and married or not I would have made the same choice, even more so since I survived the first time. Finally I am not writing to convince you. If you feel differently that's fine, but quit trying to invalidate my opinion. I have a right to it just as you have yours.
Ah, so you WERE betrayed. Explains a lot. I say this out of compassion for you: You have absolutely got to let go of your bitterness. Not necessarily to your wayward fiancee; you've a right to be angry with her if you wish.

I know you're in a pain that I can't even imagine. I'm sure you've been in that pain for years, and your pain rises up in a righteous fire every time you see or hear anything to do with Wayward spouses. That's understandable. You were traumatized by the one person you should have been able to trust. That is an immense burden to bear. But spreading this resentment to every Wayward spouse in the world is just not healthy. You're not going to be able to love or accept another woman in your life until you recognize and understand that not all waywards are the same. Far more importantly, you need to recognize that your bitterness will not protect you from further hurt.

There is a possibility that you could meet someone you think is safe, marry her, and be betrayed again in the future. Hating Wayward spouses as a group cannot prevent that from happening. And even if the unthinkable does happen someday, your wayward wife might not be like your wayward fiancee.

What if you got cheated on, and your wayward wife confessed to you, offered to take a polygraph, gave you ALL her info, went to IC, comforted you, answered every question, never defended herself, and basically made "How to Help your Spouse" her Bible? What if she did absolutely everything right? Would you deny yourself and her the opportunity to have a marriage with someone who truly and honestly wants to help you more than anything else in the world?

True remorse is rare, but It well may be that there is no marriage partner safer than the perfectly remorseful Wayward spouse. I'm not there yet, not in any sense of the imagination. But that is my goal: to be one hundred percent safe for my BH.

Anyway, the point of this rant is that you mustn't let your bitterness hurt you anymore. Harboring resentment does nothing to protect you. It only prevents you from seeing the hope in what could lie ahead.


Last edited by EllaSuaveterre; 01-26-2017 at 11:17 PM.
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post #24 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 11:16 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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First off your premise of mercy and forgiveness has nothing to do with staying in the marriage. I believe whole heartedly that the BS should and is commanded to forgive. I believe that command is for the BS benefit more then the WS. Living with hate and unforgiveness will kill you. It is useful though at first to get out of adultery.

Besides that before if they cheated they were dead now they get to live, sounds like mercy to me. I think people who repent should be able to start over, I just don't think it is healthy for the BS, besides that that wasn't even what the post was about. It was about the silly hypothetical that was posted that I rejected outright. I admit it was rude of me to jump all over the teachers post though. I can be kind of an ass at times.

Second since you want to talk scripture (you brought up) God is the same yesterday, today and forever, as I am sure you know as it is used all the time for other things, that leads me to believe he has absolutely no problem with you leaving for Adultery since he was basically going to kill the WS. Again in the old testament you didn't even get to stay with your WS you were COMMANDED TO STONE THEM TO DEATH. (that seems very harsh to me, but can't deny it says it there)

In the new testament he give you the mercy of staying if you want, but the preponderance of evidence (since the WS was dead in the OT) is that God doesn't expect you to stay because he hates divorce. Same yesterday, today and forever right. So it doesn't make sense that now that we have the new covenant he expects the offended party to live with a worse deal then you did before. Name any other way where the new covenant works that way? Nope the mercy in this case is to the WS, and the BS if they should choose to stay together. The old testament commandment and not have to put there WS to death is void. You know kind of like how we can now eat pork. You don't have to kill you cheating spouse now. You can just divorce them. Seems like a good deal.

Um an Quality I don't care if you think what I say has pointless or not. I don't care if you think that just because I wasn't married when I was cheated on I didn't feel the same pain or have to make the same difficult choice. I know my own mind and married or not I would have made the same choice, even more so since I survived the first time. Finally I am not writing to convince you. If you feel differently that's fine, but quit trying to invalidate my opinion. I have a right to it just as you have yours.
Here's a decent article on the subject of the supposed commandment to put adulterers to death by stoning. It certainly happened but it wasn't universal nor was it ever actually carried out by God {that we know of}. There are "commandments" to stone people working on the sabbath and for heresy. I'm sure there were even courts back then that would have convicted any one of us for looking and lusting at porn at any point in our lives as evidence of adultery of the heart. LINK

As far as requesting that I quit posting posts invalidating your opinion I simply request that you maybe try to make them less invalidatable. Saying recovery from infidelity is pointless and always unhealthy is ridiculous and appear to be counter to the premise {or rules} of this sub-forum. You certainly have the right to your opinion but either one of us sharing it here is at the courtesy of the owner{s} and their tremendously wise moderators.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #25 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 11:26 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Here's a decent article on the subject of the supposed commandment to put adulterers to death by stoning. It certainly happened but it wasn't universal nor was it ever actually carried out by God {that we know of}. There are "commandments" to stone people working on the sabbath and for heresy. I'm sure there were even courts back then that would have convicted any one of us for looking and lusting at porn at any point in our lives as evidence of adultery of the heart. LINK
I love it when church people do this. Oh that commandment was never really used (but this other one, that was used all the time). convenient. By the way there was lots of times where the law was not obeyed, every time God brought judgment, it's very convenient that somehow this commenter knows that this one law was OK to disobey. Using your logic Quality I could just as well say do not murder is not really valid, after all I am sure not all murderers were stoned. I mean you can't be arguing that can you?

Whoever does not obey the law of your God and the law of the king must surely be punished by death, banishment, confiscation of property, or imprisonment. -Ezra 7:26 There are like 100 of these scriptures you know, doesn't say, well but maybe this one is a little harsh.



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As far as requesting that I quit posting posts invalidating your opinion I simply request that you maybe try to make them less invalidatable. Saying recovery from infidelity is pointless and always unhealthy is ridiculous and appear to be counter to the premise {or rules} of this sub-forum. You certainly have the right to your opinion but either one of us sharing it here is at the courtesy of the owner{s} and their tremendously wise moderators.
I don't care what you post.

That's the other thing you do all the time, try to get the moderators to ban me. There is a word for people who try to silence people who say stuff they don't like. Doesn't invalidate my argument though.

I never intended to post on this thread, until that stupid question was asked. I answered then Quality attacked me as he usually does when when people say R is a bad idea. If he is going to say my posts were meaningless and invalidated everything I say because I wasn't married when I was cheated on and then he quote a scripture at me. I am going to defend myself and point out where he is scripturally wrong. I am not bitter, I am not angry but I have a right to say the question is dumb and not get attacked for it.

I will leave this thread though as we are way off point as usual.

@MattMatt feel free to delete all this garbage so Teacher can continue to teach.


Last edited by sokillme; 01-26-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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post #26 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 04:35 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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But that's not what actually happens.

You have most of your adult life invested with someone and then they get tempted.

Many folks don't WANT to toss an overall good marriage over a single betrayal. And plenty of marriages recon successfully.

Hey - it's not for everybody, but lots and lots of folks recon and there is no repeat of the affair.

The unfortunate tone of TAM is that the BS gets a total and 100 percent free ride for whatever happened leading up to the affair.

In some cases they may deserve that, in others not.
Being tempted isnt the issue, its what you do with the temptation that matters. They know that they may loose their spouse and family if they do it, but they do it anyway.

I know a few marriages that did make it work after an affair, but its never the same. I know far more that ended. I know that I couldn't trust again after an affair, after the lying and deceiving, and I know that I couldn't have sex with him again after an affair, so for me the marriage would be over. Its a massive betrayal, it shatters the marriage and destroys the promises made. No matter how long you have been married the effects are terrible, and in fact the longer the marriage the greater the pain.

Whatever has happened in the marriage cheating is wrong. My husband didnt have a very happy first marriage. The sex was limited and controlled by his wife . A lady at his work was recently divorced and giving him rather too much attention. It would have been easy for him to cheat(and take advantage of that ladies vulnerable state) but he didn't. He made it clear he wasn't interested and got on with his work. He made that choice to keep his promises and be faithful to his wife.Its all about the integrity of the person. As my DH says, the cheating isn't worth the pain and devastation it causes.

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post #27 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 04:40 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

About forgiveness. Its so important for our own well being, BUT it doesnt have to mean that you remain in the marriage. Its not the same as reconciliation. The adultery has serious consequences, and one of them may well be that you loose you marriage.
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post #28 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 04:47 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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See, it's so hard with the written word because I could {but I don't} take equal offense to these counter-implications.

I didn't have limited choices. I didn't really WANT to divorce but had we, I'd have been fine and found happiness. It was my wife and the mother of my chidrens' life I was more worried about at the time.

I and many other betrayed spouses that reconciled DID require more as well. I didn't rug sweep the adultery and just go about our young marriage as it previously existed. I got a new and better marriage. One that I didn't even know was possible and do not currently believe I had the ability, empathy, etc to have achieved any other way. The idiom it is better to give than receive is applicable here. I learned and have received countless blessings due to having been forgiving, loving and merciful towards my wife.
For me the marriage could never be better after an affair. It would never be the same, something would be lost, the trust would be shattered, and the intimacy gone.
Forgiveness doesn't have to mean reconciliation.

Last edited by Diana7; 01-27-2017 at 07:27 AM.
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post #29 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:26 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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For me the marriage could never be better after an affair.
Yet, my experience indicates the exact opposite, by leaps and bounds. Our marriage sucked prior to the affair but through my wife's repentance and my mercy and forgiveness, God blessed us both with a much more meaningful, loving and purposeful marriage. To be clear, it was because of the affair, but of God.


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It would never be the same, something would be lost, the trust would be shattered, and the intimacy gone.

That's kind of my point, it's not the same, it's better. Blind trust and naivete might be lost but it was never real to begin with. We're all capable of committing grave sins against our fellow man. Some struggle with sexual immorality while others struggle with other demons and sins. I've yet to meet a couple that didn't have any struggles. I've accepted our character and our destiny. I/we can't change the past so onward we go ~~ simply doing and being better.


“To live, to err, to fall, to triumph, to recreate life out of life. A wild angel appeared to him, the angel of mortal youth and beauty, an envoy from the fair courts of life, to throw open before him in an instant of ecstasy the gates of all the ways of error and glory. On and on and on and on!”

- James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

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Forgiveness doesn't have to mean reconciliation.
No one is arguing otherwise. In fact, my wife believes I forever retain the biblical right to divorce her based upon her long ago ~~ repented for ~~ and forgiven ~~ adultery. I don't know if intellectually/hypothetically/spiritually I agree with "forever". Could I {or any betrayed spouse} really file for divorce NOW based upon something that happened over 20 years ago? I suppose if I was still truly struggling with it and it was legitimately based upon that; but, God will know your heart and if you truly put out your spouse for any reason other than that {despite what you might indicate to the world} you will likely have to answer for that? Fortunately I don't ever anticipate having to discern the question in real life.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen

Last edited by Quality; 01-27-2017 at 10:41 AM.
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post #30 of 281 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:49 AM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Why would I answer this question, I don't accept the premise of that this is the choice. It's like saying would you rather get shot or hit by a car. Um no. I choose no, or neither. I choose to be respected and not cheated on because the two can not exist together. So the answer to your question is C. You don't get to do either if you are with me.

This is the same reason this post is meaningless to me. I really don't care to understand infidelity, I choose to not accept it in my life. Just like I choose not to accept violence in my life. That is the best answer.
Yep, I have a zero tolerance policy myself. I haven't really been able to understand why you would be willing to stay after being cheated on. I know that people who have stayed have expressed why they have here on TAM but no reason I have read to date really wouldn't hold any water with me.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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