RT's Ultimate Affair Plan - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 12:57 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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JLD,

Yes. That is exactly what bothers me about this. It sort of goes like this:
- Sexual infidelity
- Physical violence
- Addiction to (gambling, drugs, alcohol, ...) that disrupts day to day life

Those are valid reasons for divorce. Maybe even seen as righteous reasons for divorce - meaning that staying with such a person is 'wrong/bad'.

I personally see it differently. I far prefer a terrific partner who may on occasion err, than a mediocre partner who avoids any 'major' sins. But that's just my preference.

And - I am fully aware that the opposing view is a terrific partner who doesn't err.
A terrific partner who doesnt err(cheat) is the only thing I would settle for(and have got). I would rather be single that be with a man who abused or cheated.

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post #47 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 12:59 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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JLD,

Yes. That is exactly what bothers me about this. It sort of goes like this:
- Sexual infidelity
- Physical violence
- Addiction to (gambling, drugs, alcohol, ...) that disrupts day to day life

Those are valid reasons for divorce. Maybe even seen as righteous reasons for divorce - meaning that staying with such a person is 'wrong/bad'.

I personally see it differently. I far prefer a terrific partner who may on occasion err, than a mediocre partner who avoids any 'major' sins. But that's just my preference.

And - I am fully aware that the opposing view is a terrific partner who doesn't err.
If you are happy with who you are with, MEM, that's good enough for me.

I do think there are people who would be happier with a different partner. But they have to come to that on their own. And maybe not in this lifetime.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #48 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 12:59 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Diana,
And many people marry a good person who is faithful for life. And I sincerely hope that you achieve that result.




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A terrific partner who doesnt err(cheat) is the only thing I would settle for(and have got). I would rather be single that be with a man who abused or cheated.
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post #49 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:22 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Thing is, you marry a single human, not a bell curve.

The statistics say:
- In general men are less forgiving of an affair
- And are more likely to cheat

Me personally - I'm wired pretty well for monogamy. And forgiveness. M2 would never forgive an affair. She might stay with me, but she'd never really forgive me.
I remember @EleGirl saying once that men are 7 times more likely to leave a cheater than women. Do you remember where you read that, Ele? I think it was in the summer of 2014 I read that.

I don't think I could ever have an affair on Dug. I am too transparent. I just do not feel right hiding anything. And he reads me so well.

If he met someone he liked better than me, I think we would just have to get divorced. If the other person is a better fit, I think you have to let go. Marriage is not supposed to be a prison.

Dug thinks that an affair is a sign of trouble in the marriage. I know he would examine his conscience long and hard if I were to be unfaithful.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #50 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:28 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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I remember @EleGirl saying once that men are 7 times more likely to leave a cheater than women. Do you remember where you read that, Ele? I think it was in the summer of 2014 I read that.

I don't think I could ever have an affair on Dug. I am too transparent. I just do not feel right hiding anything. And he reads me so well.

If he met someone he liked better than me, I think we would just have to get divorced. If the other person is a better fit, I think you have to let go. Marriage is not supposed to be a prison.

Dug thinks that an affair is a sign of trouble in the marriage. I know he would examine his conscience long and hard if I were to be unfaithful.
Thats interesting, because I think I would be far more likely to leave a cheater than my husband would.

Like you I would/could never do it. I would not be able to live with myself. I am a very honest person, I could never lie like that.
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post #51 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Diana,
And many people marry a good person who is faithful for life. And I sincerely hope that you achieve that result.
Well he never cheated on his ex who he was married to for 23 years, and wasn't very happy with, and he has never had sex outside marriage, so I know I have a good 'un.
I wasn't going to get married again unless I found a very special man.

We have had so many cheaters married to people in my family, and a few in the family, that I know I wouldn't put up with any of that stuff for myself.
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post #52 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:37 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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A terrific partner who doesnt err(cheat) is the only thing I would settle for(and have got). I would rather be single that be with a man who abused or cheated.
I find myself agreeing with your posts a lot today.

There seems to be this idea that we all just need to sadly accept that cheating is a part of marriage. lol No, it really isn't.

Every now and then, you fall in love with the most unexpected person at the most unexpected time. - unknown

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post #53 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:44 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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I find myself agreeing with your posts a lot today.

There seems to be this idea that we all just need to sadly accept that cheating is a part of marriage. lol No, it really isn't.

Exactly, and if a man or woman knows that there will be no consequences to their affair(IE their spouse wont end the marriage), then they may well do it again.
I know a man who forgave his wife for 2 affairs and didn't end the marriage, and then she cheated twice more, divorcing him for the 4th man and marrying that man. Sometimes we can enable others behaviour by not standing up to it. He did it for the right reasons, he didn't want the children hurt, but usually a leopard doesn't change its spots, as in her case.
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post #54 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:56 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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To expect our spouse to be faithful
Should be a requirement. It's the very, very least, the very base foundation of marriage. Nothing else. Because if you don't have that you don't really have a marriage.
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post #55 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:02 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Should be a requirement. It's the very, very least, the very base foundation of marriage. Nothing else. Because if you don't have that you don't really have a marriage.
Polygamous societies might disagree with you . . .


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #56 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:05 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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So you're saying that if someone refuses to stay with an adulterer, that they lack empathy?

I said "maybe" and I expanded upon it already to Conan earlier.


Empathy can be defined as the the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

The successfully recovered couples I've seen, helped and/or know seemed to include betrayed spouses that were able to understand and share the feelings of their wayward spouse. They were certainly hurt deeply but still able to understand that such feelings weren't facts and didn't/don't define them. They were able to take the focus solely off their own pain and recognize their own humanity through the failure of their spouse. An unrepented wayward spouse is DEAD, spiritually; and, if one of your loved ones is DEAD, the sympathetic and empathetic thing one may choose to do is to TRY to save them {whether you reconcile or not}.

In my opinion only, throwing away your spouse {and other parent of your children ~ absent kids and a young marriage you should probably run} forever, post haste and without a second thought due to their sexual immorality {adultery} is to me indicative of someone that probably has less empathy.

Then again, maybe empathy is developed/modified/molded through the process of such reconciliation or really any trial and tribulation of life. Getting older, maturing, practicing Christianity all have their effect ~~ positive or negative. It's an interesting consideration as empathy appears to be multi-dimensional involving both cognitive and emotional elements which, in part, might explain some of our differences on this forum between the persons that have experienced the true emotions involved and those that have not but simply share their cognitive "empathy" {or lack thereof}. I don't know. I'm not an expert and don't claim to know it all and I'm just discussing this with you all.

I thought it would be really hard to evaluate and measure "empathy" but I just googled and apparently someone developed a {scientific} test called the Interpersonal Reactivity Index LINK

I tried to do a before and after comparing how I think I would have answered these questions as the young naive idealistic unrepentant married man I was and the man I am today.

My scores: Me Then/Me Now ~~ Index Mean: Men/women

Perspective Taking Scale: 17/23 ~~ 16.78/17.96
Fantasy Scale: 16/19 ~~ 15.73/18/75
Empathetic Concern Scale: 16/22 ~~ 19.04/21.67
Personal Distress Scale: 12/9 ~ 9.46/12.28

Appears I'm NOW more empathetic than the average man on all indexes where I was at or below average years ago.

Here's a bit about what the scores mean ~ LINK

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #57 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:14 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Yes I hear that idea that men especially are 'wired to have sex with as many women as possible' and that also is an excuse.
The idea that you have to 'sow your wild oats' before you marry is wrong as well. There are many men who don't do that who are happily married.
I believe that we are made to be in a family unit, made to be faithful and exclusive.
As you say, its a decision to cheat, especially if the affair is longer. Each time you have sex with that person you are making that decision again and putting your selfish lusts before your spouse and children.
Humans are wired to do lots of things. We are wired to take stuff to eat when we want, but we don't if we don't own or pay for the food we eat. We are wired to go the bathroom whenever we want. But we don't because we believe in hygiene and such. Many of us are wired to sleep in or at least sleep as long as we want. But most of us hit the snooze button once or twice and then get up and go to work.

Whenever I hear this idea that humans are not wired for monogamy my answer is always so what. When do we ever do anything in life just because we are wired to be that way? That is never been a good reason. Is a child wired to go to school? And no one ever forced someone to promise to be monogamous against their own free will. It's a dumb argument. If you don't want to be monogamous don't get married. There are no re-education marriage camps in the western world forcing people to put on rings.

Besides, only the very religious believe you should stay in a marriage if you are terribly unhappy. I believe everyone if they had a choice would have their spouse tell them they were unhappy and leave before they had an exit affair. The feeling by me and I am sure many others is that the abuse is in the cheating, not leaving the marriage. It is not too much to ask that you honorably end one relationship before starting another. No one is entitled to two at the same time.

Besides, at least half of the affairs you see are not even about leaving the marriage, the WS wants to say even when they are doing it. It is really about ego and endorphin rush.
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post #58 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:22 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Yep. Lots of ways to betray a partner. Not just the one way TAM folks seem fixated on.
We are not "fixated", these are the post that started on the board. I am sure if we had new financial betrayals posted almost daily, and exactly the same, the way sexual ones are we would be talking about them just as much and just as harshly. I personally see very little difference in the two. lying is lying.
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post #59 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:25 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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I am fully aware that the opposing view is a terrific partner who doesn't err.
Yeah, basically your first part just sounds like settling. I would have just continued to look if I had to choose one of your two, or just be alone. I was actually quite happy alone before I met my wife.
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post #60 of 326 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 02:33 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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yes and I read recently that man who has many partners before marriage is more likely to cheat.
There is actually a study that showed women who have had many partners are also more likely to cheat. I just read it the other day. Maybe I am wrong but if you see sex is just something you do and don't place any more value to it then say having dinner, I would assume cheating wouldn't be seen as such a big deal either. Or at least not as big a deal as say someone who sees sex as sacred.

I, being a person who has never had sex with someone I didn't at least have some emotional feeling for, never understood how your mindset before marriage could be, this is basically just another thing you do to get to know people and then after marriage it is a sacred magical bond. I am not judging when I say that, I am just saying I don't understand that.

Then again I am a man who never had and never wanted to have a one night stand. Sex was just too personal to me.
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