RT's Ultimate Affair Plan - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #1 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

1. Introduction

Those that have experienced the trauma of an affair find it to be one of the most traumatic events of their lives. Both partners lives are instantly upended, as well as those immediately close to them, such as children. The betrayed/injured/rejected partner is left with their world no longer making sense to them, displaced by grief, anger, resentment, and sadness (2). The partners often engage in bitter disputes, sometimes physically so, as they deal with the immediate ramifications of the disclosure. But, what about the one that disclosed the affair? They suffer as well, with feelings of guilt, indignation, detachment, righteousness, sadness, fear, etc.

I am only concerned with what is proven to work, which is going to encompass what clinicians employ as they encounter infidelity in their practices Whether one disagrees with a specific approach, the reason behind it or has their own pet approach, we have to align ourselves with the published research, not because being a scientist makes them correct, but because the scientific method discovers what works and what doesn't. Bad research is addressed within the community of researchers, meaning that research evolves to correct upon the downfalls from previously published research and to introduce new hypotheses, which may end up as working theories. Good science implies asking a question, testing it and determining what the truth is.

A common theme throughout this thread will be tackling the following (1):
Quote:
Sexual fidelity is a normative assumption for most romantic relationships despite data suggesting that substantial numbers of persons in assumed monogamous relationships cheat.
I will introduce the reasoning behind the necessity for individuals to align themselves with objective reality, rather than with ideals (normative assumptions). In life, we have laws for how the world works. We can fight with all of our might, but we still cannot eliminate subdue the laws of physics, for example. We have only the option of working with immutable laws, meaning that we can receive the benefits, or reality can impose punishments. The target of this thread is the question, what are you going to do about it. Victimhood will be exposed for the punishments it imposes on individuals and what they may do about it; this is a very key element to the UAP. Much of the information will stem from CBT (various waves).

Throughout this thread, one will see the following:

A.)Why individuals cheat- I tripped/A Cry for Help
B.)Statistics
C.)Types of affairs
D.)Affair differences men/women (including perceptions)
E.)How to address an undisclosed affair (pre)
F.)How to address a disclosed affair (post)
G.)What NOT to do
H.)Understanding the betrayed
I.)Understanding the unfaithful
J.)Individual healing
K.)Understanding THE affair
L.)Rebuilding the relationship
M.)Boundaries
N.)Trust
O.)Choosing to end it
P.)Keeping it affair-proof
Q.)Preventing an affair
R.)Mindfulness
S.)Emotional Intelligence
T.)Victimhood
U.)Forgiveness
more may follow


-Purpose:

To compete with commonly held myths regarding infidelity, and to generally educate. The only thing that matters is that individuals find efficacious solutions to their problems, yielding the healthiest outcomes. One must always consider the ramifications for their thoughts, behaviors, and actions, including positive and negative externalities. Infidelity is a delicate subject, meaning that lives are on the line in a number of ways. This topic is one in which individuals have hardened stances on, making it a perfect candidate to receive attention.

-Limitations:

I will only be using scholarly sources for this thread.
I have other professional demands on my time, leaving this specific undertaking to a few hours per week.

-Bio:

I am a coach that lives for research and helping individuals. I am certified to coach. Coaching is a process that requires extensive work on my part to make it efficacious. This means that I have spent (and will continue to) incredible amounts of time to research the various aspects that involve relationships. My greatest interests are in sexual dysfunctions and infidelity. I have this interest to help others, because of the incredible pain I suffered in the past. I greatly desire to help others not feel the pain I felt.

One might ask why the heck I bother on forums, then. I do need some challenges and disagreements in my life. The relationship between coach and client does not present as much skepticism as I feel is required, leaving me to continuously test my knowledge with you. I learn by having what I say challenged. Being challenged forces me to consider things from alternate points of view, creating the demand for better arguments on my behalf. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.

I am thirty years old, engaged, and have a great little boy.

My Experience

I was cheated on a long time ago. I have felt the worst feelings and thought the worst things. I approach infidelity with the understanding of how it works and what it feels like, but with the understanding that we have no choice but to move on and eliminate the trauma that we feel. Through my incredible suffering, I learned an incredible amount about how emotions work. I spent absurd amounts of time to heal and understand the common pitfalls. I then realized that I could help others heal in the same manner that I did.

To be continued...........



1. Walters, A., & Burger, B. (2013). 'I Love You, and I Cheated': Investigating Disclosures of Infidelity to Primary Romantic Partners. Sexuality & Culture, 17(1), 20-49. doi:10.1007/s12119-012-9138-1
2. Peluso, P. R. (2007). Infidelity : A Practitioner’s Guide to Working with Couples in Crisis. New York: Routledge.


Last edited by Relationship Teacher; 02-07-2017 at 08:53 PM.
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post #2 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 01:48 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

While I understand your desire to talk about reality and dealing with it, there are also some simplifying assumptions that can be made. So although it's true that people cheat, it's also true that promiscuity and swinging from tree to tree can be fun. And if the one stipulation one makes when forgoing all others is to demand the same of their spouse, then violating that stipulation completely ends the one thing that artificially binds a couple. For that reason, many need not even try to understand the WS... it immediately becomes irrelevant as the bond is broken and there is no more spouse. No need for analysis, hand-wringing, understanding, etc. Anger, resentment and grief from loss are ok, and I suppose that warrants a discussion.


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post #3 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 04:10 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

BD's Ultimate Affair Plan.....

Immediate divorce and NEVER look back.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #4 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 04:36 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

RT,
You initiated the thread with a great post on an enormously important topic.

A ways back I attempted to get folks to answer a very simple question. Would they prefer to marry someone who:
- Treats them great during the marriage has a brief affair and immediately ends it and works to recon when discovered
Or
- Doesn't really treat you well, but never cheats on you

Almost no one would answer the question as asked.

The sad thing is - the second spouse is sort of chronically breaking their vow to 'love'.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Relationship Teacher View Post
1. Introduction

Those that have experienced the trauma of an affair find it to be one of the most traumatic events of their lives. Both partners lives are instantly upended, as well as those immediately close to them, such as children. The betrayed/injured/rejected partner is left with their world no longer making sense to them, displaced by grief, anger, resentment, and sadness (2). The partners often engage in bitter disputes, sometimes physically so, as they deal with the immediate ramifications of the disclosure. But, what about the one that disclosed the affair? They suffer as well, with feelings of guilt, indignation, detachment, righteousness, sadness, fear, etc.

I am only concerned with what is proven to work, which is going to encompass what clinicians employ as they encounter infidelity in their practices Whether one disagrees with a specific approach, the reason behind it or has their own pet approach, we have to align ourselves with the published research, not because being a scientist makes them correct, but because the scientific method discovers what works and what doesn't. Bad research is addressed within the community of researchers, meaning that research evolves to correct upon the downfalls from previously published research and to introduce new hypotheses, which may end up as working theories. Good science implies asking a question, testing it and determining what the truth is.

A common theme throughout this thread will be tackling the following (1):


I will introduce the reasoning behind the necessity for individuals to align themselves with objective reality, rather than with ideals (normative assumptions). In life, we have laws for how the world works. We can fight with all of our might, but we still cannot eliminate subdue the laws of physics, for example. We have only the option of working with immutable laws, meaning that we can receive the benefits, or reality can impose punishments. The target of this thread is the question, what are you going to do about it. Victimhood will be exposed for the punishments it imposes on individuals and what they may do about it; this is a very key element to the UAP. Much of the information will stem from CBT (various waves).

Throughout this thread, one will see the following:

A.)Why individuals cheat- I tripped/A Cry for Help
B.)Statistics
C.)Types of affairs
D.)Affair differences men/women (including perceptions)
E.)How to address an undisclosed affair (pre)
F.)How to address a disclosed affair (post)
G.)What NOT to do
H.)Understanding the betrayed
I.)Understanding the unfaithful
J.)Individual healing
K.)Understanding THE affair
L.)Rebuilding the relationship
M.)Boundaries
N.)Trust
O.)Choosing to end it
P.)Keeping it affair-proof
Q.)Preventing an affair
R.)Mindfulness
S.)Emotional Intelligence
T.)Victimhood
more may follow


-Purpose:

To compete with commonly held myths regarding infidelity, and to generally educate. The only thing that matters is that individuals find efficacious solutions to their problems, yielding the healthiest outcomes. One must always consider the ramifications for their thoughts, behaviors, and actions, including positive and negative externalities. Infidelity is a delicate subject, meaning that lives are on the line in a number of ways. This topic is one in which individuals have hardened stances on, making it a perfect candidate to receive attention.

-Limitations:

I will only be using scholarly sources for this thread.
I have other professional demands on my time, leaving this specific undertaking to a few hours per week.

-Bio:

I am a coach that lives for research and helping individuals. One might ask why the heck I bother on forums, then. I do need some challenges and disagreements in my life. The relationship between coach and client does not present as much skepticism as I feel is required, leaving me to continuously test my knowledge with you. I learn by having what I say challenged, even if it is not done in a nice manner. Being challenged forces me to consider things from alternate points of view, creating the demand for better arguments on my behalf. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.


To be continued...........



1. Walters, A., & Burger, B. (2013). 'I Love You, and I Cheated': Investigating Disclosures of Infidelity to Primary Romantic Partners. Sexuality & Culture, 17(1), 20-49. doi:10.1007/s12119-012-9138-1
2. Peluso, P. R. (2007). Infidelity : A Practitioner’s Guide to Working with Couples in Crisis. New York: Routledge.
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post #5 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 05:05 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
BD's Ultimate Affair Plan.....

Immediate divorce and NEVER look back.
Yep, its a choice to cheat, there is no excuse. I certainly wouldn't waste any time with anything that tries to justify cheating, or the one who cheats.
Its wrong and cruel, period.
Some can stay after it, and some cant. Some stay our of fear of being alone or of being a single parent.

Last edited by Diana7; 01-26-2017 at 05:12 PM.
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post #6 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
RT,
You initiated the thread with a great post on an enormously important topic.

A ways back I attempted to get folks to answer a very simple question. Would they prefer to marry someone who:
- Treats them great during the marriage has a brief affair and immediately ends it and works to recon when discovered
Or
- Doesn't really treat you well, but never cheats on you

Almost no one would answer the question as asked.

The sad thing is - the second spouse is sort of chronically breaking their vow to 'love'.
I will answer you, neither.
There is a third option, be single.
I would rather be single than live with a man who treats me badly OR who cheats. For me cheating is a complete no no. The trust is gone and so has the intimacy. I have seen so many peoples/children's lives ruined by it.
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post #7 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 07:31 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

But that's not what actually happens.

You have most of your adult life invested with someone and then they get tempted.

Many folks don't WANT to toss an overall good marriage over a single betrayal. And plenty of marriages recon successfully.

Hey - it's not for everybody, but lots and lots of folks recon and there is no repeat of the affair.

The unfortunate tone of TAM is that the BS gets a total and 100 percent free ride for whatever happened leading up to the affair.

In some cases they may deserve that, in others not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I will answer you, neither.
There is a third option, be single.
I would rather be single than live with a man who treats me badly OR who cheats. For me cheating is a complete no no. The trust is gone and so has the intimacy. I have seen so many peoples/children's lives ruined by it.
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post #8 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 07:51 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
RT,
You initiated the thread with a great post on an enormously important topic.

A ways back I attempted to get folks to answer a very simple question. Would they prefer to marry someone who:
- Treats them great during the marriage has a brief affair and immediately ends it and works to recon when discovered
Or
- Doesn't really treat you well, but never cheats on you

Almost no one would answer the question as asked.

The sad thing is - the second spouse is sort of chronically breaking their vow to 'love'.
Why would I answer this question, I don't accept the premise of that this is the choice. It's like saying would you rather get shot or hit by a car. Um no. I choose no, or neither. I choose to be respected and not cheated on because the two can not exist together. So the answer to your question is C. You don't get to do either if you are with me.

This is the same reason this post is meaningless to me. I really don't care to understand infidelity, I choose to not accept it in my life. Just like I choose not to accept violence in my life. That is the best answer.
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post #9 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:01 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
This is the same reason this post is meaningless to me. I really don't care to understand infidelity, I choose to not accept it in my life. Just like I choose not to accept violence in my life. That is the best answer.
Pretty much sums up the reason your posts about infidelity are meaningless. You've never had to ACTUALLY choose whereas I and many other knowledgeable and experienced posters have.

When it's really happening to you and not some exercise of the imagination or "Sophie's Choice" it's not so "meaningless" and there's a big difference between speculating, even with emphasized certainty, in advance, "I CHOOSE to not accept it in my life" to when the woman you love and married, committed your life to and have children with is actually putting you in the position to have to choose.

That's not to say you can't CHOOSE divorce. It would be your biblical right and some people lack the ability, personality and maybe empathy to ever forgive and continue the way God would prefer, if possible. The biblical out was given to us as an escape from relational pain. It's not a requirement and God was clear when He said he hated divorce.
"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." - Malachi 2:16 NLT

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #10 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:01 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
The unfortunate tone of TAM is that the BS gets a total and 100 percent free ride for whatever happened leading up to the affair.
What? Not by a long shot.

The BS is responsible for his/her part of the marriage before the affair. They can work on whatever shortcomings they had if they decide to R or D. The WS is responsible for 100% of the affair because they knowingly and willfully chose to cheat instead of working out problems with their partner or divorcing first. Cheating is NOT in any way, shape or form, the solution to the problems in a marriage.

And I'm pretty sure you remember those threads where a BS comes here and admits to domestic violence or prior cheating,etc, and the members here let them have it.


Last edited by lordmayhem; 01-26-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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post #11 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:19 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
RT,
You initiated the thread with a great post on an enormously important topic.

A ways back I attempted to get folks to answer a very simple question. Would they prefer to marry someone who:
- Treats them great during the marriage has a brief affair and immediately ends it and works to recon when discovered
Or
- Doesn't really treat you well, but never cheats on you

Almost no one would answer the question as asked.

The sad thing is - the second spouse is sort of chronically breaking their vow to 'love'.

It is a rather "Sophie's Choice" type question begging for an alternate choice.

I'm long recovered and happily married and my wife and I share our testimony with many other couples all the time. Some have endured infidelity and others have much more insignificant issues to overcome and find inspiration in our story because it gives them the "if they can have a great marriage after THAT, then certainly we can address and fix our issue".

My wife's affair open my eyes to a whole new way of life, understanding and thinking that I very much doubt I, personally would or could have obtained any other way. I was just as vulnerable to an affair as my wife at that time in our lives and had I found myself in Satan's snare, I believe I lacked the ability my wife had to pull myself out of it, repent and commit myself to rebuilding a great marriage AND even if I could, my wife probably couldn't have done what I did. I harbor no resentment over the affair. It's as far as the east is from the west and being able to share ourselves with other couples is God's plan for us. Her affair wasn't "of God". It was certainly evil and the natural consequences of our ignorance and sins; but that hasn't stopped the angels from singing as we both repented/repent for our sins and glorify Him through redemption and reconciliation of our truly biblical marriage.

So to kind of answer your question, I would rather have what I have now including the history that my wife committed adultery two decades ago than to have had a faithful wife all these years that treated me poorly.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #12 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:19 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quality View Post
Pretty much sums up the reason your posts about infidelity are meaningless. You've never had to ACTUALLY choose whereas I and many other knowledgeable and experienced posters have.

When it's really happening to you and not some exercise of the imagination or "Sophie's Choice" it's not so "meaningless" and there's a big difference between speculating, even with emphasized certainty, in advance, "I CHOOSE to not accept it in my life" to when the woman you love and married, committed your life to and have children with is actually putting you in the position to have to choose.

That's not to say you can't CHOOSE divorce. It would be your biblical right and some people lack the ability, personality and maybe empathy to ever forgive and continue the way God would prefer, if possible. The biblical out was given to us as an escape from relational pain. It's not a requirement and God was clear when He said he hated divorce.
"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." - Malachi 2:16 NLT

The question was asked of me, you don't have to like my answer.


"if a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." - Leviticus 20:10

Going by old testament law the adulterer is dead no need for divorce. Your point is moot.

God hates divorce it's true, but he puts to death the adulterer so divorce is not applicable in this case. By the way, that meant in the old testament you didn't even get a chance to R, because God overruled you and ordered your WS put to death. I wonder why that is, maybe God like me thinks for the most part it's pointless.

Last edited by sokillme; 01-26-2017 at 09:34 PM.
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post #13 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:31 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
RT,
You initiated the thread with a great post on an enormously important topic.

A ways back I attempted to get folks to answer a very simple question. Would they prefer to marry someone who:
- Treats them great during the marriage has a brief affair and immediately ends it and works to recon when discovered
Or
- Doesn't really treat you well, but never cheats on you

Almost no one would answer the question as asked.

The sad thing is - the second spouse is sort of chronically breaking their vow to 'love'.
Well what you are asking is would you rather eat dog shyt or cat shyt.

I don't eat at either restaurant. I have other choices.

I would never put up with an unsatisfactory marriage or my woman fvcking another man.

Just me. Some would honestly choose one of your options but I don't have limited choices and I require more.
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post #14 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:49 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quality View Post
Pretty much sums up the reason your posts about infidelity are meaningless. You've never had to ACTUALLY choose whereas I and many other knowledgeable and experienced posters have.

When it's really happening to you and not some exercise of the imagination or "Sophie's Choice" it's not so "meaningless" and there's a big difference between speculating, even with emphasized certainty, in advance, "I CHOOSE to not accept it in my life" to when the woman you love and married, committed your life to and have children with is actually putting you in the position to have to choose.

That's not to say you can't CHOOSE divorce. It would be your biblical right and some people lack the ability, personality and maybe empathy to ever forgive and continue the way God would prefer, if possible. The biblical out was given to us as an escape from relational pain. It's not a requirement and God was clear when He said he hated divorce.
"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." - Malachi 2:16 NLT
While I appreciate your thought out posts, but inferring that folks who divorce over infidelity possibly do it because they lack ability, personality or empathy for forgiveness is myopic and arrogant.

I have forgiven much over the years and would forgive my wife her infidelity if she strayed. She would however, not be my wife afterwards.

God hates sexual immorality as well as divorce and saying He hates divorce far more than adultery is not accurate.
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post #15 of 325 (permalink) Old 01-26-2017, 09:58 PM
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Re: RT's Ultimate Affair Plan

So when are you going to finish writing that guide, and will you include advice for wayward spouses on soothing tower betrayed beloved, and on helping themselves process and recover from their own guilt?

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