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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 11:03 AM
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Re: Need some help...

If she is saying it will be easier if you don't know the details of the sex act two things jump to mind;

1. She really, really enjoyed it and it was only her guilt over betraying you that eventually stopped her. (Or more than likely - the OM stopped the A by dumping her)
2. She did things with him that she has never done with you or things she has refused to do with you.

Sorry.

If either of these is true, you have to accept that she will now forever think of the A with fond memories.

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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: Need some help...

1. Its a reasonable conclusion she enjoyed it. Unless the OM was completely unskilled, women generally enjoy sex with a man they choose to lay down with.

2. She can easily say "all we did was conventional booty call, doggy style, sex with no eye contact and no extras. At best it was fair to midland." If she refuses to take a poly to confirm it, you have a mexican standoff.

In either case, its likely to be an exercise in futility. He either decide to continue to live with her or he doesn't. Personally, I'd like to hear what she was thinking when she decided to sleep with the other cat. I'd hope it wouldn't be, "I'd never f--ked this guy if he hadn't been f--king my sister."

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help...

Thanks all. We are still working on it and I appreciate the advice. She no longer works with the OM. We was a player and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. A lot of my digging after my wife told me was to find out more about the OM.

Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts. Nothing overtly sexual, just racy. You could tell the OM was the pursuer in the relationship. I confronted her and she came clean. The reason she had been acting funny was because of the guilt of what she'd done. She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up. She has done everything I could ask of her since. I think we can get past this if I can get past the things troubling me. Again, I am not so naive as to think she was blameless so I still keep an eye on things to make sure...
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 11:33 AM
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Re: Need some help...

i asked you if she confessed the affair or if you found out about via other means.

Your response was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post. My wife told me 6 months ago about the A.
Then you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
I confronted her and she came clean.
She didn't just "tell you about the affair".

She did not confess until you confronted her with indisputable evidence.

At which point she confirmed only what you already knew. Nothing more.

You sir are in a fair amount of denial and you are giving your wife way too much credit as to how honest and forthcoming she has been with you, and you will most likely live to regret it.
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 11:35 AM
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Re: Need some help...

Good luck my man and keep things in perspective.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 01:26 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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She didn't just "tell you about the affair".

She did not confess until you confronted her with indisputable evidence.

At which point she confirmed only what you already knew. Nothing more.
Exactly...

Minimizing the affair is the only card in the deck your W has left to play.

I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying... Andy, Shawshank Redemption.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
Thanks all. We are still working on it and I appreciate the advice. She no longer works with the OM. We was a player and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. A lot of my digging after my wife told me was to find out more about the OM.

Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts. Nothing overtly sexual, just racy. You could tell the OM was the pursuer in the relationship. I confronted her and she came clean. The reason she had been acting funny was because of the guilt of what she'd done. She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up. She has done everything I could ask of her since. I think we can get past this if I can get past the things troubling me. Again, I am not so naive as to think she was blameless so I still keep an eye on things to make sure...
So which of the two of them left for a different job?

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 07:22 PM
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Re: Need some help...

sinjin

I suggest reading the earlier post by Affaircare - also google (it's on here somewhere) CWI Strategy - not sure if it is legal to post url here.

Forgiveness - this if FOR YOU. Please start reading about it. When you forgive, the hate and hurt will greatly diminish.

Forget? No, never - the event is burned into your memory until death. This is the hardest part. It never goes completely away. With time it will affect you less and the memory will pop up less often. T his is maybe the hardest part of Reconciliation.

My wife had an affair over 30 years ago. It still in my mind almost daily. The trust has never fully returned.
However, my life is much better with her than it would be without her. How will you be going forward?

When is happened, I offered her divorce without any strings. and a "please go" unless you can come clean. She broke and
started showing remorse. She still does show remorse if some event reminds her.

Your wife? Remorse? Timeline? Accountability? Are you going to bare your heart on chance she will again wander?

Regarding the mind movies. If you really want to visualize what she did - tell her you want to know. My suggestion is to visit some porn sites with the explicit depiction of the act of copulation - have here watch with you.

Her attitude and/or willingness to do so will be very telling.

Before getting off my soap box - don't "stay for the children" - my parents did that and I still deal with some of the effects.
Kids don't need the kind of memories of the broken relationship of their parents. It warps them.
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:43 AM
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Re: Need some help...

Quote:
By Aftercare
This is actually pretty typical--forgiving an affair is a pretty tall order! But my thought is that if you want to forgive there are two things that might help you. A) Study forgiveness. What is it? How do you do it? What does it mean? What is actually involved? I would recommend reading books about forgiveness, Googling "forgiveness" and just in general finding out all you can about the process of forgiving.

I just want to pass along some information that may expand Aftercare’s post above and may help you with some of your concerns and questions about forgiveness. The first is from Mayo Clinic and the second from Berkley Web Site



Forgiveness: Letting go of grudges and bitterness - Mayo Clinic

Forgiveness
These wounds can leave you with lasting feelings of anger, bitterness or even vengeance — but if you don't practice forgiveness, you might be the one who pays most dearly. By embracing forgiveness, you can also embrace peace, hope, gratitude and joy. Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.
What is forgiveness?


Generally, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge

Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life.


How do I reach a state of forgiveness?
Forgiveness is a commitment to a process of change. To begin, you might:
• Consider the value of forgiveness and its importance in your life at a given time
• Reflect on the facts of the situation, how you've reacted, and how this combination has affected your life, health and well-being
• When you're ready, actively choose to forgive the person who's offended you
• Move away from your role as victim and release the control and power the offending person and situation have had in your life

As you let go of grudges, you'll no longer define your life by how you've been hurt. You might even find compassion and understanding.




By Berkeley education web site
Forgiveness Definition | Greater Good

What Is Forgiveness?
Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.



My comments below are based upon my degree of forgiveness:

You already know that Not forgiving is detrimental to your wellbeing. I like the definition of forgiveness that is presented by the Berkeley Web site as stated in bold above. Your anger and difficulty in dealing with forgiveness is totally understandable especially since you are only 6 months away from D-day. I hope you noticed that the definition above states a decision to release feelings of RESENTMENT and VENGENCE. What is NOT included is that you having positive and loving feeling for your wife. That may occur or maybe some has occurred already but do not feel like you are failing if they do not prove to be present in your emotions at this time.

To be blunt, part of your thinking and incentive towards forgiveness involves you wanting to forgive so that YOU can get better! You have to believe that forgiveness will help you get better and then do the work until you see the results. I want to bring your attention to the quote by Mayo Clinic in bold below:

"Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being."

Another action that I used to forgive was that I did some introspection of myself and saw where I could build myself up in body, mind and spirit, and then I got busy improving in those areas. I am not suggesting that your areas that you could improve in were the reason that your wife betrayed you; this is not about looking for blame but to get you to focus on you so you can get better.

I also got a lot closer to my other family members and did not 100% depend on my emotional healing coming from my WS. In fact I worked at getting myself more self-sufficient and not to put too much of my emotional health back into the hands of my wife. I am not saying that you detach from your wife, I am saying that you get a proper balance in your emotional nourishments.

The damage that betrayal does is very significant and deep and if you have any idealism about marriage then you will have to accept the new realities.
I have over 20 years of R and have a good life, have a good relationship with my o wife most of the time, and have a very close relationship with my children and grandchildren. I believed God that I should forgive as I have been forgiven and that God rewards obedience and grace. After years my life convinced me that God is faithful.

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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:41 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts.
I confronted her and she came clean.
First off she didn’t spontaneously tell you about her “one time physical encounter.” You found evidence. It may not have been iron clad about sex but it was proof of bad behavior. The way you tell it she was so eaten up by guilt that she jumped at the chance to spill her guts at the first opportunity.

If I did something I was terribly guilty about I wouldn’t be exchanging racy texts with my accomplice.

That’s called reminiscing.
Reminisce: indulge in enjoyable recollection of past events

One time physical experience + AP still available = Very unlikely but possible
One time physical experience + AP still available + Racy texts (after experience) = No way one time


Last edited by Graywolf2; 01-29-2017 at 03:32 PM.
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:43 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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I am having a really tough time forgiving her fully. What she did seems so selfish to me and I just can't quite bring myself to FULLY forgive. I am not sure how to get over that hump. I feel like I am angry all of the time and mostly manage to keep it in check but if I can't figure out a way to forgive her I won't be able get past this.

I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...

She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up.
Understand that you are very normal. The problem is that you had your wife of 30 years up on a pedestal. Men commonly do that if given half a chance. She is the woman they picked and went all in for. In sickness and in health, etc. Your wife was “very religious" to boot.

She was special and you were special because only you could have sex with her. The woman you knew for 30 years would have never done what she did. You paid full price and the OM got it for free. She risked everything to give it to him to boot.

Now she want's the reward of a faithful wife and to grow old with a nice stable family man like you. I read about a guy in your situation that had just decided to try R with his WW. Then she hurt her back and he had to wait on her had and foot. What ate him up is the OM should be doing it. After all he got the exciting dates.

What will help you is to understand that your wife was not as good as you thought she was. Maybe she never was. She’s human. If you had thought less of her all along this would be easier to take. She will never will be as special to you as she once was. How could she be? It’s not a problem with you. It's a problem of what she did for some extra fun on the side. You just have to face your new reality. It's like planning to be a doctor for your entire life and then realizing that you will never get into medical school.

Now that your wife is off the pedestal do you still want to be married to her? Is she good enough warts and all? That's what you have to figure out.

Last edited by Graywolf2; 01-29-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:44 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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She no longer works with the OM. He was a player and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. .
The following is a link to a letter written by a “player.”

Written by a player...

Print it and give it to your wife.

Last edited by Graywolf2; 01-29-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 01:40 PM
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Re: Need some help...

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Hello all. First post after lurking for a while.

I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.

My problems are:

1. I am having a really tough time forgiving her fully. What she did seems so selfish to me and I just can't quite bring myself to FULLY forgive. I am not sure how to get over that hump. I feel like I am angry all of the time and mostly manage to keep it in check but if I can't figure out a way to forgive her I won't be able get past this.

2. I can't get the images of her with the OM out of my head. We have never discussed the act itself in any detail so my imagination runs wild. She has said she thought it would be easier to get past if we don't discuss the details. I am not so sure. Is it better to know the gory details or not?

3. The last issue is that we live in a small town so there is no one for me to really talk to about this without word getting out and affecting our daily lives and hence our ability to possibly work through this. We move in the same basic circles and telling one person would be like telling a lot of people. So I am trying to deal with it on my own and that is really tough. I sometimes feel if I could just vent to someone I would be able to move forward. I need some way to release all of the pent up stuff I am carrying around. I guess that is why I came to TAM.

I am not convinced we can get past this if I can't figure out how to deal with it. What have others done? Any and all advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Its unlikely that it was her first after 30 years of marriage.
Do not blame yourself; that only plays into her need to justify.
I am sorry she did this to you.
For your mental health sake please try journaling (or even writing here!). Small town therapists are just like big city therapists and they gossip. It is just that in the small town it is more readily recognized. Confidentiality is for them a lofty notion they all make claim to but human nature needs to talk and enough detail will get out and you'll be recognized.

Kick her out while you're thinking. At least it will let you feel like a man for now after what she took from you. There is a lot of mourning to do, including the loss of holidays, memories and the worst:

never trusting her ever again.

I am a new poster here, but a lurker and I noticed that there are more honest men here than in another forums. The ones dominated by women often say "forgiveness and staying together" are the same thing. They are not.

Also therapists who make money off of your pain often come from broken homes themselves, so their advice is what it is.

Let them men here help you talk things through. The first responder said that this was not likely her first time.
He's right.

Also, it is WAY worse using imagination: make her tell you everything: full disclosure, if she wants you back...it must be on your terms.

The devil you know is easier to deal with than the devil you don't know.

Hang in, man, you did not deserve this after 30 years.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: Need some help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by browser View Post
i asked you if she confessed the affair or if you found out about via other means.

Your response was:



Then you wrote:



She didn't just "tell you about the affair".

She did not confess until you confronted her with indisputable evidence.

At which point she confirmed only what you already knew. Nothing more.

You sir are in a fair amount of denial and you are giving your wife way too much credit as to how honest and forthcoming she has been with you, and you will most likely live to regret it.
it may sound like he's digging at you, but getting to the truth is vital. You're going to be making life changing decisions; it must be based upon truth.

You deserve the truth but more importantly, she needs truth.

An affair is deception and if she is going to make things right, she has to "confess" (homo = same and logeo=confess), that is to not alter any of it...

she was led away because she wanted to be led away. She chose to answer texts. She chose to meet. She chose to inflict pain upon you that is unbearable. The only chance for surviiving is the truth. In denial, you postpone the pain.

It is similar to strong addicts in recovery: man, they do not let themselves off the hook for a minute.

But, if you don't want to know everything, I don't condemn you. I wish you the best. We all do what we can to survive and it is really hard. The more dedicated we were to our wives, the worst the betrayal. I project my own feelings here, so please know, whatever you must do, you must do...

I hope you are exercising, walking, etc, and eating right.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 08:42 PM
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Re: Need some help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Blunt View Post
I just want to pass along some information that may expand Aftercare’s post above and may help you with some of your concerns and questions about forgiveness. The first is from Mayo Clinic and the second from Berkley Web Site



Forgiveness: Letting go of grudges and bitterness - Mayo Clinic

Forgiveness
These wounds can leave you with lasting feelings of anger, bitterness or even vengeance — but if you don't practice forgiveness, you might be the one who pays most dearly. By embracing forgiveness, you can also embrace peace, hope, gratitude and joy. Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.
What is forgiveness?


Generally, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge

Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life.


How do I reach a state of forgiveness?
Forgiveness is a commitment to a process of change. To begin, you might:
• Consider the value of forgiveness and its importance in your life at a given time
• Reflect on the facts of the situation, how you've reacted, and how this combination has affected your life, health and well-being
• When you're ready, actively choose to forgive the person who's offended you
• Move away from your role as victim and release the control and power the offending person and situation have had in your life

As you let go of grudges, you'll no longer define your life by how you've been hurt. You might even find compassion and understanding.




By Berkeley education web site
Forgiveness Definition | Greater Good

What Is Forgiveness?
Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.



My comments below are based upon my degree of forgiveness:

You already know that Not forgiving is detrimental to your wellbeing. I like the definition of forgiveness that is presented by the Berkeley Web site as stated in bold above. Your anger and difficulty in dealing with forgiveness is totally understandable especially since you are only 6 months away from D-day. I hope you noticed that the definition above states a decision to release feelings of RESENTMENT and VENGENCE. What is NOT included is that you having positive and loving feeling for your wife. That may occur or maybe some has occurred already but do not feel like you are failing if they do not prove to be present in your emotions at this time.

To be blunt, part of your thinking and incentive towards forgiveness involves you wanting to forgive so that YOU can get better! You have to believe that forgiveness will help you get better and then do the work until you see the results. I want to bring your attention to the quote by Mayo Clinic in bold below:

"Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being."

Another action that I used to forgive was that I did some introspection of myself and saw where I could build myself up in body, mind and spirit, and then I got busy improving in those areas. I am not suggesting that your areas that you could improve in were the reason that your wife betrayed you; this is not about looking for blame but to get you to focus on you so you can get better.

I also got a lot closer to my other family members and did not 100% depend on my emotional healing coming from my WS. In fact I worked at getting myself more self-sufficient and not to put too much of my emotional health back into the hands of my wife. I am not saying that you detach from your wife, I am saying that you get a proper balance in your emotional nourishments.

The damage that betrayal does is very significant and deep and if you have any idealism about marriage then you will have to accept the new realities.
I have over 20 years of R and have a good life, have a good relationship with my o wife most of the time, and have a very close relationship with my children and grandchildren. I believed God that I should forgive as I have been forgiven and that God rewards obedience and grace. After years my life convinced me that God is faithful.

Great post on forgiveness. At the beginning when I was full of resentment and bitterness I thought I could never get to a place where I have forgiven. I am getting there but making sure I do not leave my emotional health back into the hands of my husband is where I struggle. To me my H is supposed to be my other half, if I cannot trust him with my emotions then what is the point of marriage?
This is where I am now. I can continue in the marriage, probably have a fairly satisfying life but there will always be something missing. I am really struggling with that plus the fact I never got total disclosure. How do I deal with that? Sorry for hijacking thread.
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