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Big fight

10K views 60 replies 20 participants last post by  katies 
#1 ·
although we are fine today, we keep having the same fight it seems. Although it's been a while since the last one.
A 29 year old woman who apparently must be at the gym hubby works out at friended him on FB. Her husband always works out there as well and he and hubby are buddies. This was a few days ago. I saw the "so and so are now friends" feed on my FB. I just sighed to myself, wondering why she friended him. She is one year older than our son! The guy she married was her former teacher and is 50.
Then, at the bball game last night, they said hi to each other (ignoring me, I was her teacher in junior high) and then I saw him glancing at her again.

We proceeded to have a good evening out with our friends and when we got back I mentioned that it felt threatening to me that he is friends with her. I said you always mention everybody else at the gym, why not her? when he explained how he knew her.

so we went around and around, he told me I Was stalking him (he obviously doesn't understand how FB feed works). Then he said I caused my own pain by starting all this. and then he apologized and then not and said I drove him to say those things. And things were said and crap and I had had enough and left the bed. Then he apologized.

What the hell is the answer here? I don't think he's having an affair. But why even go there. I would NEVER be friends with someone like that on FB. She obviously looked him up as they have no shared friends. WTH?
 
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#2 ·
Okay, politically incorrect answer here.

Apologies to bleeding hearts.

Rather than a bitter response, think of this as an educated response. I'm only offering my opinion.

Many young women today are well versed in how to get and keep a man. They are well educated in the fact that men are visual. They know they are attractive and what that means. They know how to have great sex and aren't afraid to have it with whomever they choose.

They also enjoy the attention that a man gives them whom they would never sleep with. He doesn't know it, because she will just keep him nibbling at the bait, thinking he has a chance. hahahaha. surrrre..he does.

And as added fun....it sure does screw with your head and marriage. Did you give her a hard time in middle school? Yeah, many today, men and women will find a way to get revenge. There is little they won't do and they think it is fun.

Laws today are such that a wife can have a child and get child support. She can then no-fault divorce and find another man who she believes will be a better provider. As she gets older, she will settle down with a man who has never had a woman with such sexual experience, but has plenty of money and a good reputation.

All of that and they can have a great career, too.

In other words, many women today know they can have it all. So, they go for it.
 
#3 ·
Since she likes older men, which is why she married one, I'd say you have reason to wonder. Not be concerned, but wonder. I think your husband shouldn't have argued with you, he should have simply ''unfriended'' her if he saw how upset you were. If you're a normally reasonable person, and have been married a while, he should put your feelings above what some random chick at a gym thinks.

I have friends who are men, and my fiance is mutual friends with most of them. But, if I started adding men I meet at the gym to my FB friend list, no matter their age, my fiance would wonder. She's not interested in being friends, that's my guess. She's interested in getting male attention, and your husband shouldn't have accepted the friend request. He should unfriend her if he cares at all about your feelings. The fact that he made a big deal about it is telling, though.
 
#4 ·
From what you have written. Is it typical in your marriage to have arguments like this?

If my wife told me that she was uneasy with a female friend, I would drop that friend out of respect for my wife.

His arguments and his defending the friendship makes me a little uneasy to tell the truth.

Maybe not an affair - yet. The old saying applies - "This is not Hell.........but you can see it from here."
 
#6 ·
I agree his reaction is like WTF? He HATES that I look at social media - once I saw him at a community lunch sitting next to a gal who later came up and hugged him while we were together and I was livid. He said she's just a jovial happy person. He accused me of looking at his LinkedIn page. I haven't looked at it in 2 years. But WHO CARES. He is a BS too! I would NOT CARE if he looked at my stuff. He doesnt' think it's healthy for married couples to do that. Well guess what, we're not the typical married couple.
He said if you don't trust me lets just end it. And then back pedaled. He just doesn't know how to NOT TAKE OFFENSE to anything I say. He said what's this about. I said EMPATHY!!!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Some woman collect facebook friends like trophies. He may have just been polite to accept the request. No harm done.

Is she a gym rat in which she can offer fitness advice? In which case no harm done.

Or he is flattered he befriended him, there is possibly a little sexual tension on his side while she just wants male attention and never will PA or EA your husband.

I vote for the last one.

50 yo guy here.
 
#9 ·
Who needs this crap. As we age our ego gets more brittle by the day.

He knows better.

When my wife stops being jealous of me is the day I would get really worried.

I went to just one H.S. Class Reunion. It was my 25th. I never had any contact with any of my former classmates. Why only one Reunion? As soon as we arrived at the 25th, a former High School girlfriend of mine screamed and jumped into my arms, her legs wrapped around my waist. My wife was horrified. I was dead meat.

He should be happy that his wife is protective of him. All within reason, of course.

I wish you the best.
 
#12 ·
Tell him exactly what you have said above. He could not be that obtuse that he does not realise the importance in your case of boundaries.

If it was me, I would give him some of his own medicine and flirt with the guys at the next event you attend, if he responds negatively, tell him that is exactly how you feel. So if he is prepared to sit down and talk about it in order to protect your marriage, great; if not, then yu both have to consider moving on as you cannot live like that.
 
#11 ·
You'll have to hope for those who've reconciled to come by with opinions. This is beyond most of us. I figured as much.

I'm going to suggest the old standby. Please, see a marriage counselor. Yours is not the typical situation. You could easily lose all you've worked for if you follow the wrong advice.

In the end, that may be best for both of you, but you will need counseling to help you determine what is worthy of leaving and what isn't.

Sorry you are here over this.
 
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#14 ·
It now goes against my values to flirt with other men.
Yes @katies!!! One may need affirmation in other ways, but the good feelings that come from being found attractive and desirable? IMO, those belong to one's partner and him/her alone.

As to your husband having what was likely a relatively innocent (if ego-stroking) interaction with this ex-student of yours? If it makes you feel uncomfortable or upsets you in any way, then he needs to know that and appreciate it. What he does with that information is then his choice. Frankly, I cannot see why she should feature in either of your lives in any way.

It seems to me that your argument was not about him continuing his "friendship" with this woman. (I don't think you said whether he wants to do this? If this is the case, then my advice changes) You were hurt that he had acted as he had - you saw it as him not respecting healthy boundaries. And he was hurt that you were checking up on him because he saw this as a lack of trust. (He probably also felt guilty after you told him about how you felt, which wouldn't have helped him see your feelings objectively.) Neither of you can control which feelings you have in response to this situation, they simply are. Sharing them is part of honest, open communication. It is understanding what to do with them and why they are there that matters. (For what it is worth, I would also have felt threatened and angry if I were you.)

However, the reality is that you need to trust him to be faithful in order to move forward in your marriage. Perhaps you already do so, at least in part. But, you also need to trust that he is fully invested in your marriage. That your comfort and happiness are important to him, even if it means respecting boundaries that he might not think are necessary. Trust like this is built over time by a thousand small gestures. It needs to be nurtured. Respecting your partner's feelings is absolutely necessary (and that works in both directions). Does your husband understand that you are not actually accusing him of having an affair? Were you hurt more by his initial behaviour or by his response when you told him how that behaviour made you feel? Your history possibly makes it difficult to have these types of discussions without one of you demanding that the other prove their love and commitment by showing trust first. The whole discussion then becomes stuck in a chicken and egg loop. Have you tried MC before? Or perhaps writing down your feelings so that you can share things like this more neutrally?

I hope that you can get through this together. It sounds as though you have both had painful journeys to get to this point.
 
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#16 ·
You guys need to get on the same page. To do this, there has to be some communication without judgment. As it stands, you two have things that have been left unsaid, guarded by past hurt. You two should be brought closer for things like this (intimacy), not divided. On one side, you have to be able to just listen to him. On the other, he has to be able to listen to you. If he doesn't hear you out, then you use some strategies to show him that it is important for him to listen, but not in a way that threatens him with emotional punishment.
 
#17 ·
We have said everything. It's just that we don't agree on some things. Can you have a marriage where you don't see eye to eye on critical issues?
We've discussed the affairs ad nauseum. I was also sexually assaulted in a hotel room, which devastated him and he was furious with me for not protecting myself.
He has NEVER had empathy with me for that and it gets thrown in my face as "sex with a guy." So if I think something is a rape and he thinks it's not, where do we go from there? If we don't talk about it, we're good. If we do, we don't come to any consensus but hurt.

What are these strategies that show him?
 
#30 · (Edited)
I wouldn't make him do anything, I just wouldn't allow someone to make me feel as small as he's making you feel. That part, you can control. The fact that your husband had two affairs and now has friended a random woman much younger than him at the gym, is telling of what is important to him. Sometimes, we like to tell ourselves stories about those we love, that are easier stories to swallow, I guess. We keep telling ourselves that these people who keep hurting us really love us, and have so many good qualities. Reality is always a harder story to tell ourselves, so we sometimes opt for the easier story. I'm not suggesting you leave him - but you don't need to walk on eggshells for him or make excuses for him.
 
#24 ·
I think his two affairs were reactionary to my affair. But I also think that the lack of empathy and "you should be over this" attitude is disappointing, to say the least.
I talked to him again last night and said I wasn't happy with how things went the other night. I said I didn't know how to bring things up without him thinking he couldn't do anything right and being defensive. He said just bring things up and that's he trying hard and nothing is going on.
It would be a no bRainer to me to dump someone from Facebook.
 
#35 ·
I think his two affairs were reactionary to my affair.
Maybe he's passive aggressively still getting his digs in/revenge , after all it appears you started the affair trend in your relationship.
Not healthy for either one of you.
 
#41 ·
Being with others like that is a big deal... you either have to fully reconcile and forgive or it will irrevocably erode and one of you will leave, that is assured.

Can the both of you let the past really become the past?

Many can't after the transgression of an affair. I think those that do come to an understanding much deeper than the hurt created. What you need is a pact... a peace treaty if you will, make it written is recommended, that any future disagreement will not bring up the agreed areas in anger or an argument. When an argument seems to be forming that appears to be spiraling downward in trended negative feelings in it's tit-for-tat model, place the agreement on the table and work on keeping things fair, clear, and calm as you address your hurts and fears.

Keep the list visible and add to it initializing each new line you add to the treaty... before long you will see that the rehashing of old jabs are diminished and you now have room for the growth and good communication. If minor violations come, and they will, be humble if you cause them and patient/understanding if he does when called out... you are both human.

This isn't a weapon, it's a tool, and it protects you both.

If it doesn't work for you, wonderful... you have to use the tools that are best for you. The whole idea is that when you disagree, you can do it with fairness and without fear. When I argue with my wife, and we do have our share of disagreements... it's not that we disagree, it's how we disagree and quality counts.

Again, it's how you also react... what happens if you simply watch the things that are throw at you come and are caught by you? You owned them, correct? Perhaps it's now time to own the insecurities you both may have.

If this cycle doesn't stop, it will stop you...
 
#43 ·
I don't think forgiveness helps with triggers. We have forgiven each other. I have to forgive myself for staying, apparently. Not in the cards to forgive any AP.
Kate, You wrote this on 8/6/2015

Your WH thinks along the same lines.

I do not think it is in the cards FOR HIM to forgive your affair.

He loves you. You are a lovely women.

But he does not believe your version of what happened in that hotel room. He does not believe you. Behind the scenes, he shows this disdain and acts accordingly.

For you, it is death by subtle blows. He seems very passive. He has no empathy? No, he has some. HE JUST HAS NO EMPATHY FOR YOU. His love for you and his hurt from you collide, collude and you get this women in your face....forever?

He still loves you, but he is still punishing you. He is conflicted. Your constant complaining about him and his affairs just fuel the passive glowing ember that is his relationship with this women.

I get it. You love him. You are remorseful.....he is not. He may say he is. But he is still hurt.

Like a leaf, he cannot/will not stop the local breeze from sending him astray. If he were a stronger man he would ask for a divorce. His "if" is weak.

He is coasting in life. And so are you. Get off the skateboard.

He will never get off his skankboard, will he?
 
#46 ·
Nor do I... I think vulnerability is a critical component of self-love, less fearful of any rejection and not worrying about what one looks like when openness is no longer an issue, but a asset.

This is what I meant by how we allow them to surface, removing those things that keep us guarded and disguising our authenticity.
 
#47 ·
I'm dragging this thread out because I'm not quite sure what to do.
I found out how to find out what you've searched for in Facebook. I looked at hubbys.
In December he searched three time for a business women's name. She's very attractive and about our age. She is not in any line of work he is in but I suppose as a business person their paths have crosssed.
So why look her up? They have two mutual friends. I don't have access to his LinkedIn account so no idea of they're friends there.
He hasn't looked for anything else but sports teams.
He was very supportive of me this weekend when I did my hobby type job.
My gut is that he saw her or maybe met her somewhere and then looked her up.
If I ask him about it I'll give away my source and he'll accuse me of stalking him.
He's obviously interested in knowing about other attraactive women. Do other men do this?
 
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