Any way back from 2nd EA? - Page 15 - Talk About Marriage
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post #211 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Dude how is it going?
Still here, not sure where to start.
I told W about the contact I made with OMW and that he'd be having a poly and I'd get the result emphasising that any PA would come out through this, W didn't flinch at all and I was watching her very closely. She reiterated her conviction that there was never any intimacy and that she was never physically attracted to OM and he was like a father figure to her, one that she openly admits was wrong because of his feelings towards her. She just didn't see the harm. She knows the harm it's caused me and our marriage and is sickened by it.
We had MC this week and it was a real wakeup call for her hearing how this has affected me.
I have been very blunt about what I need to see in order to consider moving toward R. I guess we'll see in the next weeks if her actions match her words.
I'm in good shape I'm controlling this thing, bossing it and running it my way at my pace to my schedule.i still need to see plenty more remorse and action from W bit the signs are good.
Thanks again for all your advice and support, whatever happens from here I'm going to be better than good. Much love CJ

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post #212 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

cjadek - it sounds like you are achieving a very objective state. IMO, this is a very good thing. Anger and pain can be incredibly energising in terms of getting things done, but I think the most constructive outcomes are always achieved once we recognise these emotions; and then choose our course of action wisely, taking them into account.

Well done on contacting the OM's wife. If she hasn't thanked you yet, then know that there will come a time when she will be grateful.

I wish you well, and also your wife. She has some way to go, but if she has begun to empathise with you, and understand the impact of her actions on you, then this bodes well. Many people here on TAM will discuss the difference between regret (focus on self i.e. WS) and remorse (focus on the BS).

(When you're ready, go back and read your first post - think about your state of mind now compared to how it was. I visit mine every now and then!)

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis
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post #213 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:27 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

Is the OMW going to let you know the results?
I am surprised that your wife was surprised that men lie about their marriages to other women. I thought everyone knew that.
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post #214 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:04 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I read/talk about/involve myself in a ton of these situations and I just say that my gut tells me that your wife is telling the truth.

She wasn't having an affair but likes the attention and was willing to sacrifice her own ethics for that attention. Had the OM been closer, better looking and probably a little more convincing it likely would have snowballed into a real affair. This is very concerning in that she's going to need some real work to fix this in her. She's a considerable affair risk and that's not safe.

But she can make herself safe for you if she tries.

----
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post #215 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I often wish with a real ferocity that human beings could come out of themselves even a little bit in order to be decent, in order to at least just 'do no harm.'

Your WW thinks that, since she had no romantic feelings for him, then what's the harm? For 15 years, a married man has pursued her and professed love, and she thinks, 'what's the harm'?

The harm is that he has a wife, a wife who is a real, three-dimensional human being with all of the feelings that go with that. Your WW didn't miss much of a beat when she simply discounted that poor woman's feelings.

How would your WW feel about a woman who stayed in your married life for 15 years as someone that her H professed deep love for?

Your WW should have shut this down 15 years ago, not just because of her commitment to you, but because she strives to be A DECENT HUMAN BEING.

At this point, if she has any real conscience, she should be crying real, relentless tears about the pain she and the OM have caused a woman who has deserved nothing less than basic human respect.

Your WW needs some kindergarten lessons on the golden rule.
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post #216 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 09:14 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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I often wish with a real ferocity that human beings could come out of themselves even a little bit in order to be decent, in order to at least just 'do no harm.'

Your WW thinks that, since she had no romantic feelings for him, then what's the harm? For 15 years, a married man has pursued her and professed love, and she thinks, 'what's the harm'?

The harm is that he has a wife, a wife who is a real, three-dimensional human being with all of the feelings that go with that. Your WW didn't miss much of a beat when she simply discounted that poor woman's feelings.

How would your WW feel about a woman who stayed in your married life for 15 years as someone that her H professed deep love for?

Your WW should have shut this down 15 years ago, not just because of her commitment to you, but because she strives to be A DECENT HUMAN BEING.

At this point, if she has any real conscience, she should be crying real, relentless tears about the pain she and the OM have caused a woman who has deserved nothing less than basic human respect.

Your WW needs some kindergarten lessons on the golden rule.
I so agree,if a married man professed love for me just once, I would have immediately stopped all contact with him. She went along with it for 15 YEARS!!!!
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post #217 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:39 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

@alte Dame, I so want to agree with you, but I'm afraid that I don't. Or, at least not exactly.

cjadek's wife should bear the full weight of the damage that she did to her marriage in pursuing a secretive, inappropriate, self-serving relationship with another man for 15 years. The OM should bear the full weight of his betrayal of his marriage vows. They each need to assume complete culpability for their own spouse's pain.

I think cjadek's wife should be focused on cjadek and not on dealing with guilt for trangressing the bounds of common decency. Yes, her actions and choices impacted the OM's wife. Yes, she did not behave in a decent or honourable way. But frankly, that behaviour was incidental not deliberate. And the guilt that she should feel around this is way down on the priority list. She did not break any promises made to the OM's wife or even have any bond with her * (not sure whether she had even met her?). Trying to hold the OM or OW accountable in some way for the BS's hurt allows blame shifting from the WS. It's also a cunning tactic we BS's often try to use on our own to make our WS's more palatable - it wasn't their fault, they were tempted, misled etc. IMO, we need to honestly and objectively confront the offending part of our WS if we are to have any chance of forgiving them or even considering an effective reconciliation.

From my perspective - as a BS, it is entirely OK to loathe the OM or OW. (There are recently elected presidents that I loathe with far less personal reason.) I have very little respect for my husband's OW. But she really shouldn't matter to me at all. And to say that she "should have been a better person and considered my feelings"? Frankly, it feels a little toothless.

So to say that cjadek's wife should be weeping for the "pain she caused" the OM's wife. I'm not sure that it is useful... or realistic. We should all be striving to be better people and challenging ourselves when we fall short of that. I hope that one day, cjadek's wife does think about the pain caused this other woman so far away by her actions and inaction. And that it makes her a better person. But for now, all her energy should be on her marriage and on cjadek.


(* Where the OW or OM is a person that the BS has a relationship with (beyond acquaintanceship), then I have more complex feelings. But, even in this case, the additional pain the BS is feeling comes from the betrayal of their own relationship with the OW or OM. And that should be processed separately.)

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis

Last edited by Mizzbak; 03-04-2017 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Sorry - Correcting cam to be cjadek. Too little sleep for too many days .. .and apologies to cjadek. Comment holds.
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post #218 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:04 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

Is this cam's thread?

I thought I was responding to an OP whose wife carried on a 15-year A with a married man who was in love with her even though she didn't return his feelings of love.

??
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post #219 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:35 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

This is not Cam's thread


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post #220 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:36 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by alte Dame View Post
Is this cam's thread?

I thought I was responding to an OP whose wife carried on a 15-year A with a married man who was in love with her even though she didn't return his feelings of love.

??
Ha! Nope.

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post #221 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 07:49 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I was responding to Mizzbak's comment about my comment, lol. His comment assumed I was talking about Cam, which I wasn't.

And the OP of this thread is, in fact, a man whose wife had a 15-year EA, so I am leaving my comment above.
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post #222 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 08:59 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

...

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post #223 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 07:36 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

@alte Dame, I will take a longer break between reading threads. sigh. But my comments were for cjadek's thread and in response to your comment.

Would therefore like to know what you think?

(Humblest apologies, cjadek - I definitely meant you and your wife.)

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis
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post #224 of 224 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 09:21 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I think that Cam and his WW have a different scenario and thus my opinions are a bit different.

OP here is facing a WW who has hidden a relationship for 15 years. According to her, it was always unrequited love on the part of the OM.

Since for her they were never a 'couple,' then why would she stay in his marriage all this time? His BW's hurt is on both of them, in my opinion. OP's WW could have bowed out many years ago and after that not been in any way a vehicle for the mega-hurt that is coming the BW's way.

So, it's my opinion that it would have been very easy for the WW to do the right thing a long time ago. There were none of the typical excuses from the cheater's script on her part, if she's not lying about her feelings. No love chemicals or hormones, no sex, no romantic physical affection. She could have told him years ago that it was inappropriate and the two of them needed to part ways.

She didn't do it, though, for very selfish reasons.

Imagine that two people get drunk one night and drive around from bar to bar having fun. One of these people gets drunk every night and puts other people's lives at risk by driving drunk at the end of the night. This drunken person wants his friend to accompany him on all of his drunk driving nights.

But the passenger is now a sober man and doesn't feel the way his drunken friend does about bar hopping and DUI. Does this passenger get in the car with the drunken friend every night and drive around because he likes his company? Does he do that for 15 years?

Needless to say, we hope not. The OM in this case is the drunk and the WW is the passenger who let the driver drive drunk for years. Cam's WW and her OM were both drunk and driving around heedless.

I stand by my remarks, no question. I believe that the WW here was so careless in her sense of decency toward the OM's BW that it simply didn't matter to her whether she was stringing along the OM for years.

And again. 15 years.

Last edited by alte Dame; 03-04-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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