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post #31 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 06:44 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

Out of curiosity CJ, how does she respond when you ask accusatory type questions? Give an example if you can.


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post #32 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 06:45 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I'm so very sorry that you're going through this pain. People who haven't experienced EA's really don't understand that it can be an even bigger betrayal than a PA in many ways. Knowing that your 'partner' has spent a life sharing intimacies with another person is excruciating. I've lived this. It's terrible. Again, I'm very sorry.
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post #33 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 06:46 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

She's spent years successfully lying to you -- a poly is pointless.

Either she's a really good liar and she'll pass or she'll fail but manage to convince you not to trust the poly because she was so nervous because she loves you so much and was afraid that she'd lose you and that's why she failed because her heart was beating so fast and blah blah blah blah blah.

Still, if you're just set on the poly, don't mention it until you're in the parking lot at the testing facility. Otherwise you give her nothing but time to study up on how to beat a poly.

Men don't spend years investing themselves in EAs unless they're getting something out of it. And since they spent years working together... well, it's not hard to guess exactly what he was getting out of it.

Rationalize all you like, but know this --

They've had sex.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #34 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 08:51 PM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by cjadek View Post
The more she's talked about it the more I'm being swaying by fact my W's father died in her mid teens which totally rocked her world as he was her world, and she viewed OM as a sympathetic father figure (he is 12-15 years older) who listened intently and told her the nice things she wanted to hear, things a Dad might say. Please comment on this as my bull**** filter is clearly not functioning 100%. The email trail from both of my discoveries align with this.
My mother's father died when she was 5, it caused her to marry bad men but she never and would never cheat. I get my black and white thinking about this from her. So what you say may be true but that is really not an excuse. I see this all the time the desire to know why. The real question is does it matter, it doesn't fix her even if you know the reason. It just shows that she is defective and probably not a good choice to continue. The only person who can fix her is her and she has wasted 15 years at this point. Times running out for you to have a good marriage, assuming that was one of your dreams when you were young. You ain't getting any younger waiting for her to fix her 5hit.

I think you should get the timeline and then spring the poly. Thing is if she refuses to take it then that has to be it. You can't back down, unless you want more of the same. I hope she understands she is hanging on by a thread. If she really is, maybe she thinks you are all talk, she was able to con you before. Looks like she just said everything you wanted to hear and then continued acting exactly the same way. She probably knows she can do the same now. You must remember if she can't be honest she is not worth much in a relationship, at least if you want a healthy one. If you look at it that way the ball isn't even in your court.

One more time why are you not telling the man's wife. You are participating in the cover up. What are you afraid of? Where is your compassion for this lady. You of all people should understand the betrayal yet you have no empathy for this woman. This would be probably the most effective way to take some control and power in this situation and you refuse to use it. Again there is that passiveness I keep talking about. I think there is a very good chance you will find out this was a PA, are you prepared for that? Then the question becomes your third child.

If you are smart and move on when you learn to be assertive you will be a good catch for some other woman, you had a 15 year faithful relationship from your end. That makes you valuable. However you should never love anyone enough to let them abuse you. You are responsible for protecting yourself at all times, just like they say it the ring. This passiveness you have shown will make you attractive to the wrong type of woman. And it will turn of the right kind. Woman don't like passive men, the ones that do like them because they can dominate them.

No person in your life is worth your self respect. No matter what you do try to remember that. It's really better to be alone.

Last edited by sokillme; 02-11-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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post #35 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
Out of curiosity CJ, how does she respond when you ask accusatory type questions? Give an example if you can.
She responds with something like "I told him I wasn't interested in anything but being his friend I told him I waited along time for you to come into my life and I would never do anything to harm that (sounds contradictory in the current context eh!). He said he can accept that but just wants to keep in contact just to know how I'm doing"
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post #36 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

I haven't told the OM's W as I haven't been bothered until now to research where the poor woman lives or even what her name is.
I will follow up on this in due course it's just not a high priority for me right now.
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post #37 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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She's spent years successfully lying to you -- a poly is pointless.

Either she's a really good liar and she'll pass or she'll fail but manage to convince you not to trust the poly because she was so nervous because she loves you so much and was afraid that she'd lose you and that's why she failed because her heart was beating so fast and blah blah blah blah blah.

Still, if you're just set on the poly, don't mention it until you're in the parking lot at the testing facility. Otherwise you give her nothing but time to study up on how to beat a poly.

Men don't spend years investing themselves in EAs unless they're getting something out of it. And since they spent years working together... well, it's not hard to guess exactly what he was getting out of it.

Rationalize all you like, but know this --

They've had sex.
While they may well have had sex I haven't seen any clues/hint to this end in any of there correspondence not one suggestive comment or innuendo. Between the 2 times I've 'caught them' I've read quite a few pages of dialogue. I would've thought I'd have seen even hint if that were the case. (This doesn't mean I'm convinced they didn't)
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post #38 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 01:03 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by cjadek View Post
Thanks all for your thoughtful and thought provoking replies, I've learnt allot about my situation and myself and how I plan to proceed.

I'm getting my W to write a timeline of the EA and encourage her to leave nothing out, obviously dates will be sketchy given the timeline but the interactions won't be whatever they were (PA).

Then I'm going to hit her with a poly to prove that timeline isn't more lies and half truths anything but full, frank and total honesty will be terminal for our marriage.

Anyway thanks to you all I am now much more comfortable with whatever and however this turns out. I read the 180 and have implement my version of it, I call it the 135. I woke up this morning full of purpose because no matter what happens I am awesome and I'll be just fine with or without her.

The more she's talked about it the more I'm being swaying by fact my W's father died in her mid teens which totally rocked her world as he was her world, and she viewed OM as a sympathetic father figure (he is 12-15 years older) who listened intently and told her the nice things she wanted to hear, things a Dad might say. Please comment on this as my bull**** filter is clearly not functioning 100%. The email trail from both of my discoveries align with this.

She has been at painful lengths to say there has been and never ever was any PA. Too me there is a possibility there was before we were married. She is convincing, but pathological liers are aren't they!!

The bottom line is I gave my W a 2nd chance when many wouldn't have and she slammed that goodwill/trust (some say naivety) back into my face then lied to my face to cover up detail.
What was her reaction when you said this to her?

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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post #39 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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What was her reaction when you said this to her?
She'd say things like. "I'm so sorry I've hurt you, he was never really in my life he was just a guy who fell in love with me and yes I know it's selfish I can't believe what I've done to you and our marriage all for a guy I just saw as a good friend, I've been so stupid, you are only man I love always have and always will. I had the opportunity to be with him when he told me he loved me but I said no I don't love you I love CJ and nothing will ever change that"
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post #40 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 01:29 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by cjadek View Post
She'd say things like. "I'm so sorry I've hurt you, he was never really in my life he was just a guy who fell in love with me and yes I know it's selfish I can't believe what I've done to you and our marriage all for a guy I just saw as a good friend, I've been so stupid, you are only man I love always have and always will. I had the opportunity to be with him when he told me he loved me but I said no I don't love you I love CJ and nothing will ever change that"
I hope you don't believe this crap.For FIFTEEN years she has been lying to you,men have spent less time in prison after getting a life sentence.
I agree with Gus,the poly is pointless,I know how they work and your wife is too good an actress and too far in denial for it to work.You may get the parking lot confession but that's about it.
You need to wake the f*** up and do something because this 135 talk and not telling the om's wife is rug sweeping at an Olympic level.If you are happy to live your life as it is now then keep doing exactly what you have been doing i.e. nothing,keep begging your wife and pleading with her and she will lose more respect for you every day,but she doesn't have much anyway so it doesn't matter.Tell her you are speaking to a lawyer and advice her to do likewise,that should show her you mean business.

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post #41 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 01:34 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by cjadek View Post
She'd say things like. "I'm so sorry I've hurt you, he was never really in my life he was just a guy who fell in love with me and yes I know it's selfish I can't believe what I've done to you and our marriage all for a guy I just saw as a good friend, I've been so stupid, you are only man I love always have and always will. I had the opportunity to be with him when he told me he loved me but I said no I don't love you I love CJ and nothing will ever change that"

How much of this, do you think, is self serving crap, and how much is true?

Fifteen years of lying and being selfish is not an anomaly, it's who she is. The anomaly here would be her being honest.

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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post #42 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 01:53 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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While they may well have had sex I haven't seen any clues/hint to this end in any of there correspondence not one suggestive comment or innuendo. Between the 2 times I've 'caught them' I've read quite a few pages of dialogue. I would've thought I'd have seen even hint if that were the case. (This doesn't mean I'm convinced they didn't)
And don't get caught up on wondering if it went PA. Is that the deal breaker for you? And not the years of lying?

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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post #43 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 02:57 AM
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Cool Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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Originally Posted by cjadek View Post
While they may well have had sex I haven't seen any clues/hint to this end in any of there correspondence not one suggestive comment or innuendo. Between the 2 times I've 'caught them' I've read quite a few pages of dialogue. I would've thought I'd have seen even hint if that were the case. (This doesn't mean I'm convinced they didn't)
@cjadek ~ While they may profess their undying love for each other, having had sex with each other is just one subject matter that neither of them will rarely, if ever, want to confess to, either orally or in written form! To negligently do so could possibly jeopardize both their social and employment livelihoods! Both would greatly prefer to carry on as "Plan B's" than to let their spouse and family know about their shameful little deceptive arrangement!

And while it is rather unmistakable that a longtime PA did, in fact, occur between them, that in and of itself, is proof positive that you, as well as your children, were undeniably and consciably betrayed!

She doesn't really have to connect sex organs with someone to evoke gross infidelity ~ she already did that with intertwining her heart with his, and then simply saw fit to lie, vacillate, and to "trickle-truth" to you about it for some 15 years!

For simplicity sake, let's just say to hell with the extremely high probability that physical sex actually occurred between them! Let's say that a PA never happened!

Given that, doesn't 15 years of an emotional attachment to another man count for something? It's more than apparent that she deceptively left the emotional exclusivity of her marital union with you so many, many years ago, and that the only true constant here is that she has unflinchingly continued to lie to both you and herself about it for all of these years!

And while it's all too apparent that you definitely do not want to be in the company of an unremorseful cheater, you sure as hell don't want to be in the midst of some unconscionable liar either!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html

Last edited by arbitrator; 02-11-2017 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Edification
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post #44 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 03:42 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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I haven't told the OM's W as I haven't been bothered until now to research where the poor woman lives or even what her name is.

I will follow up on this in due course it's just not a high priority for me right now.


It needs to be your top priority right now. Period.

Do you want to rug sweep like you did years ago and just have this happen again? Your goal right now isn't to save the marriage, it's to get out of infidelity.

She's probably already warned you that you're going to call. Every second that you wait is another second they will invent a backstory about this 'crazy husband'.

Then they will lie low for a period of time and then restart. Everyone who comes here likes to think that their situation is different but it's really not.

This WILL happen if you don't expose. This WILL happen again with someone else if you don't assign consequences to action. You WILL have an astronomically higher chance of finding out the real story with her boyfriend's wife as a partner. You WILL be doing to moral thing and letting her know that she's living with a monster.

The reason your wife was sick when you told her you'd contact his wife is because it would end the affair and you'd find out things she didn't want to tell you. She cares so much about keeping him that she, like most cheaters, feel they are the 'prize' and that she would seperate from you if you did that. The truth is she's damaged goods, it's an empty threat and YOU CANNOT AVOID EXPOSURE FOR ONE MORE SECOND.

And please do not even kind of hint that you're doing this. You'll also find out quickly if they're still in contact if she finds out without you telling her, so don't even tell her until then. It's a very good tool.

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post #45 of 224 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 05:09 AM
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Re: Any way back from 2nd EA?

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She'd say things like. "I'm so sorry I've hurt you, he was never really in my life he was just a guy who fell in love with me and yes I know it's selfish I can't believe what I've done to you and our marriage all for a guy I just saw as a good friend, I've been so stupid, you are only man I love always have and always will. I had the opportunity to be with him when he told me he loved me but I said no I don't love you I love CJ and nothing will ever change that"
Is this accurate?

This may be the case of her being honest for once. And lying about saying no?

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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