WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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Originally Posted by badmemory View Post
So you did lose some moral high ground; just not all of it.
I totally agree with that.

I don't think my response to her cheating totally exonerates her from her choice to cheat in the first place. Lose some but not all.

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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:40 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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I totally agree with that.

I don't think my response to her cheating totally exonerates her from her choice to cheat in the first place. Lose some but not all.
And your two subsequent EAs plus her kissing the guy in the truck pretty much makes you both serial cheaters.

Let each other go. Neither of you is satisfied by the other.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:41 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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That is 100% true.

In retrospect, I don't think we made a true attempt at R either. I feel certain my wife did not pick up on my thoughts about leaving all these years. She was in her own little bubble. She thought I didn't divorce her so we were good. She rationalized away the rages and other issues we were having too. She was unaware of the EAs until recently too. She totally avoided any discussion about the A.
What has she done to fix her brokenness? I don't mean realizing what she is missing if you leave. I mean when the sh*t hits the fan, when shes gains 10 pounds feeling bad about herself and some new guy tells her she is hot kind of brokeness. That should be your focus because the sh*t always hits the fan.

In the same respect, you can't expect her to work on her brokeness without you working on yours. You need to do this to have hope for any successful relationship with anyone in the future. My stepfather had rage issues. It destroyed his life. He lost my mother, me and lives alone. The sad thing is, he had it under control for the first 3 years of their marriage. My mother and I often talk about if he had stayed like that they would still be married. I don't believe you can't control it because if you were in a room with Mike Tyson and felt rage at him I bet you would control it. That is your biggest problem right there. All people who use rage do so to control others. It's about intimidation. FIX THAT SH*T! No one likes counseling. Adults do stuff they don't like all the time to improve themselves.

Back to your marriage, the biggest thing is this is a hell of a lot of work and sacrifice. If you don't love her, why bother, you may love someone else and not have the sacrifice. Don't stay in a marriage because of fear, it won't be healthy, you won't be healthy. Maybe you are too scared to admit you still love her. That's different.

Again if you don't fix yourself you aren't going to have a good relationship with anyone.
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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:45 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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There is a difference between a 6mo A and a drunken ONS stand in response to it.

I disagree with you on the moral high ground. I did not draw first blood here. I did not rationalize some B.S. reasons to cheat. I felt emasculated, hurt, ashamed, embarrassed, angry, confused, and taken advantage of and I made a choice I thought would help me and simultaneously give her a taste of her own medicine. This was in direct response to her actions. It didn't turn out so well for me either. I had gut wrenching guilt about it and it damn sure didn't make me feel better about the situation. I don't think it hurt her as much as her A hurt me either. It didn't level the scales of justice at all.
Yes she did. But if you're going to use that as a justification why not have a bunch more ONS's? I mean, she drew first blood so now there's no standards of behavior for you, right?

As I said, I totally understand why you had one, I just think you gave up some moral high ground.

And to be honest I get a general tone from you of nothing is really your fault. Sure you admit that you aren't perfect but pretty much everything you've done has been in response to things she's done.

So she caused everything, you're at fault for nothing. How's that attitude going to work for you even if you move on to someone new? Probably not well.

So she went to birthday parties while you went to school? I get that you were working hard.....I've worked full time, gone to school, and raised kids at the same time (and my degree is in STEM-physics) so I understand what that's like. But you don't seem to have any real appreciation for the fact that your wife was raising three little kids essentially alone. Was it really that big of a deal that she wasn't doing laundry as often as you wanted? That was what you wanted to fight about? She was raising them alone and she certainly didn't have your company. Not your fault.....you were working and going to school, but did it ever occur to you that this was how she coped?

Did you get nasty with her when she didn't perform household tasks that you thought she should? When she says you were mean to her what exactly does that mean?

I'm trying to get a feel for the dynamics of the entire marriage. I think too often on TAM when there's an affair involved it tends to eclipse everything and the betrayed spouse is elevated to sainthood (I forget who here said that but someone did). That's not to say she dealt with things well because clearly she did not, and you had every right to lay down boundaries for moving forward and to dump her if you felt like you needed to. But you chose to stay.

And I don't sense any real ability to introspect from you, only anger at the evils that have been heaped upon you throughout your entire marriage. Yes her 6 month affair was lousy and you were rightfully angry about that, but it seems to me that you have a general angry victim mentality as it relates to all parts of your marriage.

It would be one thing if you had a balanced view of the whole marriage and were only angry about her affair.....that I could understand. But your anger permeates the entire marriage and you seem to think you're the only who who sacrificed and contributed.

If you can't get beyond this then do both of you a favor and end this.
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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:46 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

You barely mention the children. How old are they? Are any of them still at home? Do you REALLY want to be living 1,300 miles away from them? How often do you think you will see them at that distance?
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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:52 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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TX-SC, I doubted the changes too. I thought it was love bombing or hoovering. My mentioning D was what spawned this whole mess. I thought she was manipulating me and trying to engineer the outcome she wanted which was for us to stay married.

I lean the other way now. It's hard to explain but her demeanor is different. She approaches life situations differently. She has empathy now. She has taken a horrendous amount of verbal and emotional brow beating from me and not thrown any back my way. She beats herself up for what's she's done. She constantly apologizes. She's riddled with guilt and shame. You can see it in her eyes. I don't think she has it in her to fake all the changes she's made. Who knows, she fooled me once before...

Believe me, I don't underestimate what she has done. I've born the brunt of the consequences of her choices. MC probably could have fixed what was wrong in our marriage before she cheated. I loved her very much. Now, two families have been destroyed. Generations of lives, some yet to come, impacted by one woman's stupid choice to cheat. Untold amounts of mental energy, time, money, sleepless nights, and heartache for a bit of flattery and a few sexual encounters, the bulk of which were in a truck. The whole thing is absolutely asinine. Nobody involved escaped consequences in this tale of woe.
My thing with people like your wife is just because they are one way today, that doesn't mean 10 years from now they get tired and change again. Their integrity is not based on their honor and right and wrong (you know, the black and white thinking that is scoffed at by today's academics), it's based on how they feel. Feelings change.
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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:53 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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Yes she did. But if you're going to use that as a justification why not have a bunch more ONS's? I mean, she drew first blood so now there's no standards of behavior for you, right?

As I said, I totally understand why you had one, I just think you gave up some moral high ground.

And to be honest I get a general tone from you of nothing is really your fault. Sure you admit that you aren't perfect but pretty much everything you've done has been in response to things she's done.

So she caused everything, you're at fault for nothing. How's that attitude going to work for you even if you move on to someone new? Probably not well.

So she went to birthday parties while you went to school? I get that you were working hard.....I've worked full time, gone to school, and raised kids at the same time (and my degree is in STEM-physics) so I understand what that's like. But you don't seem to have any real appreciation for the fact that your wife was raising three little kids essentially alone. Was it really that big of a deal that she wasn't doing laundry as often as you wanted? That was what you wanted to fight about? She was raising them alone and she certainly didn't have your company. Not your fault.....you were working and going to school, but did it ever occur to you that this was how she coped?

Did you get nasty with her when she didn't perform household tasks that you thought she should? When she says you were mean to her what exactly does that mean?

I'm trying to get a feel for the dynamics of the entire marriage. I think too often on TAM when there's an affair involved it tends to eclipse everything and the betrayed spouse is elevated to sainthood (I forget who here said that but someone did). That's not to say she dealt with things well because clearly she did not, and you had every right to lay down boundaries for moving forward and to dump her if you felt like you needed to. But you chose to stay.

And I don't sense any real ability to introspect from you, only anger at the evils that have been heaped upon you throughout your entire marriage. Yes her 6 month affair was lousy and you were rightfully angry about that, but it seems to me that you have a general angry victim mentality as it relates to all parts of your marriage.

It would be one thing if you had a balanced view of the whole marriage and were only angry about her affair.....that I could understand. But your anger permeates the entire marriage and you seem to think you're the only who who sacrificed and contributed.

If you can't get beyond this then do both of you a favor and end this.
I don't agree the very first paragraph in his first post was all the crap he did. I personally didn't read it thinking he is all that great a husband so he didn't paint that picture.
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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:59 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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I don't agree the very first paragraph in his first post was all the crap he did. I personally didn't read it thinking he is all that great a husband so he didn't paint that picture.
True but if you read closely he really doesn't own any of it.

Everything was in response to her. Apparently he has no control over himself and is forced to respond the way he does.

There's a difference between acknowledging and owning.

That's basically the argument used when a cheater says "yes I cheated but you were mean".

Acknowledging but not owning.
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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:23 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

As I read your post in conjunction with hers and separately, I come to the same conclusion each time. You guys have a lot of issues individually and as a couple. I say the following with the best intentions.

You fought. Issue number one. You guys never really learned to respect yourselves or the other person. If you did, you would not have lowered yourselves to violence. Alcohol seems to have played a roll in other stuff. Too big of a roll. You have lived sort of a lie with your wife by deciding years ago to leave in the future. That is just practically sociopathic at some level. She did not pick up on anything being amiss. That is almost delusional at some level. Lack of empathy is clear.

I think that what you guys called a marriage, anyone else would have just called existing without war.

MC is not going to work because each of you has some serious issues to deal with and need IC. Then again, at your ages, maybe you are so comfortably set in your individual dysfunctional ways that you don't want to change, in which case, your initial question makes sense.

My advice, change yourself. You focus on you. She needs to focus on her. No one needs to divorce or plan for it yet. Just try to get yourselves as close to "pretty good shape" as possible. Then, maybe you will see the value in MC and be willing to work on it. Alternatively, you decide to D. Still, each of you is really a mess. I mean this with the best of intentions and not to insult you, but two broken people don't make one fixed anything, they just make a broken something else.

Alcohol, tempers, anger, grief, FOO, hurts, bitterness, resentments, forgiveness, empathy, and clear-headedness are all currently missing and have been deficient for what seems to be the duration. No sunk cost analysis here. Starting over with the same problems will yield the same results.
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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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Yes she did. But if you're going to use that as a justification why not have a bunch more ONS's? I mean, she drew first blood so now there's no standards of behavior for you, right?

As I said, I totally understand why you had one, I just think you gave up some moral high ground.

And to be honest I get a general tone from you of nothing is really your fault. Sure you admit that you aren't perfect but pretty much everything you've done has been in response to things she's done.

So she caused everything, you're at fault for nothing. How's that attitude going to work for you even if you move on to someone new? Probably not well.

So she went to birthday parties while you went to school? I get that you were working hard.....I've worked full time, gone to school, and raised kids at the same time (and my degree is in STEM-physics) so I understand what that's like. But you don't seem to have any real appreciation for the fact that your wife was raising three little kids essentially alone. Was it really that big of a deal that she wasn't doing laundry as often as you wanted? That was what you wanted to fight about? She was raising them alone and she certainly didn't have your company. Not your fault.....you were working and going to school, but did it ever occur to you that this was how she coped?

Did you get nasty with her when she didn't perform household tasks that you thought she should? When she says you were mean to her what exactly does that mean?

I'm trying to get a feel for the dynamics of the entire marriage. I think too often on TAM when there's an affair involved it tends to eclipse everything and the betrayed spouse is elevated to sainthood (I forget who here said that but someone did). That's not to say she dealt with things well because clearly she did not, and you had every right to lay down boundaries for moving forward and to dump her if you felt like you needed to. But you chose to stay.

And I don't sense any real ability to introspect from you, only anger at the evils that have been heaped upon you throughout your entire marriage. Yes her 6 month affair was lousy and you were rightfully angry about that, but it seems to me that you have a general angry victim mentality as it relates to all parts of your marriage.

It would be one thing if you had a balanced view of the whole marriage and were only angry about her affair.....that I could understand. But your anger permeates the entire marriage and you seem to think you're the only who who sacrificed and contributed.

If you can't get beyond this then do both of you a favor and end this.
I completely own my part of the marital issues prior to the A. I think my posts are pretty clear on that point. The A is on her. She did break the marriage contract. My behavior cannot compel her to do something that she thinks is unmoral or wrong. That same logic applies to me for the ONS. I had other options available to me and I chose to be petty and try to purposely inflict pain upon her. That's not a good thing.

I can't possibly put every detail in these posts. She fully admits she shirked her mom and wife duties early in our M. It wasn't just birthday parties or similar events, she would go to my mom's house on weekends and sleep for hours while my mom watched the kids. She would go to her parent's house after work and stay and lounge for hours before heading home. I busted my butt working overtime for a mortgage down payment while she would nap or talk on the phone for hours. I would do laundry when possible, I would clean the house when possible. I gave baths. I changed diapers. I organized lunches, clothes, and other stuff for them at night too. I didn't expect her to do it all. I just needed her to be a partner. It wasn't feasible for me to do everything. This imbalance of the workload wasn't so apparent in our M until I started school. She would do dumb stuff like hide laundry and mail. She would spend money on trivial stuff or loan it to some family member and not pay bills. She wouldn't mail bills even when they were ready to go with stamps and all. She was selfish, lazy, and self centered. She would pout if she didn't get her way over trivial things. I didn't start out yelling and demanding she get off her lazy butt and do work. It did get tiresome after years of this same bs. I kept thinking she would see the big picture and pitch in. She focused entirely on the here and now and that didn't involve housework. Later in the M. I was the one helping with homework, having difficult talks with them. Pushing them to excel or not settle for less than they were capable of. Explaining right and wrong. I doled out punishment and praise. Mom was the fun one. I didn't trust her to raise them even half of the time. I do have some regrets, what parent doesn't, but I did the best I could at the time. She focused on work friends and other things that validated her and not necessarily her family. I think she alludes to some of this in her post.

I focused on how I missed some of these traits while we were dating. Thing is, you really don't know someone until you live with them. You don't know what kind of parent they will be. You don't know exactly The truth is we got married way too young because of a pregnancy. We both needed to mature some. Her more than me. I had fears of ending up dirt poor and not being able to provide for them. I felt it was my job to provide and her job to handle the bulk of the housework. That didn't pan out. It wasn't an ideal situation.

Also, to bigfoot, I almost never drink. I don't think alcohol is an issue for either of us.

I'm painting a grim picture but it wasn't all bad. In spite of all of this our kids turned out to be well adjusted, well balanced, level headed adults. One has graduated college and just got married and he and his wife seem crazy about each other. One is close to graduating with her teaching certificate. The youngest is living at home and going to community college. She wants to be a pediatric nurse. There's no substance issues with any of them. They have a varied circle of friends. They have solid relationships with their grandparents and other extended family members. The oldest two keep in touch even though they don't live at home. They seem to have a pretty good set of morals and great work ethics. We took some awesome family vacations together and we remiss about those times often. We have some neat family traditions at Thanksgiving and Christmas which the kids primarily drive now. I didn't sit around all of these years moping, feeling sorry for myself, and cursing the world or my wife. I have friends, hobbies, and my wife and I did do things together. Our kids have no idea this is part of our past. I'm 100% certain of this.

I do think the issue is now with me. I just can't seem to "get over it". What is some of the work you folks think I need to do? What's the first step to start a true R?

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post #41 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:25 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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I completely own my part of the marital issues prior to the A. I think my posts are pretty clear on that point. The A is on her. She did break the marriage contract. My behavior cannot compel her to do something that she thinks is unmoral or wrong. That same logic applies to me for the ONS. I had other options available to me and I chose to be petty and try to purposely inflict pain upon her. That's not a good thing.

I can't possibly put every detail in these posts. She fully admits she shirked her mom and wife duties early in our M. It wasn't just birthday parties or similar events, she would go to my mom's house on weekends and sleep for hours while my mom watched the kids. She would go to her parent's house after work and stay and lounge for hours before heading home. I busted my butt working overtime for a mortgage down payment while she would nap or talk on the phone for hours. I would do laundry when possible, I would clean the house when possible. I gave baths. I changed diapers. I organized lunches, clothes, and other stuff for them at night too. I didn't expect her to do it all. I just needed her to be a partner. It wasn't feasible for me to do everything. This imbalance of the workload wasn't so apparent in our M until I started school. She would do dumb stuff like hide laundry and mail. She would spend money on trivial stuff or loan it to some family member and not pay bills. She wouldn't mail bills even when they were ready to go with stamps and all. She was selfish, lazy, and self centered. She would pout if she didn't get her way over trivial things. I didn't start out yelling and demanding she get off her lazy butt and do work. It did get tiresome after years of this same bs. I kept thinking she would see the big picture and pitch in. She focused entirely on the here and now and that didn't involve housework. Later in the M. I was the one helping with homework, having difficult talks with them. Pushing them to excel or not settle for less than they were capable of. Explaining right and wrong. I doled out punishment and praise. Mom was the fun one. I didn't trust her to raise them even half of the time. I do have some regrets, what parent doesn't, but I did the best I could at the time. She focused on work friends and other things that validated her and not necessarily her family. I think she alludes to some of this in her post.

I focused on how I missed some of these traits while we were dating. Thing is, you really don't know someone until you live with them. You don't know what kind of parent they will be. You don't know exactly The truth is we got married way too young because of a pregnancy. We both needed to mature some. Her more than me. I had fears of ending up dirt poor and not being able to provide for them. I felt it was my job to provide and her job to handle the bulk of the housework. That didn't pan out. It wasn't an ideal situation.

Also, to bigfoot, I almost never drink. I don't think alcohol is an issue for either of us.

I'm painting a grim picture but it wasn't all bad. In spite of all of this our kids turned out to be well adjusted, well balanced, level headed adults. One has graduated college and just got married and he and his wife seem crazy about each other. One is close to graduating with her teaching certificate. The youngest is living at home and going to community college. She wants to be a pediatric nurse. There's no substance issues with any of them. They have a varied circle of friends. They have solid relationships with their grandparents and other extended family members. The oldest two keep in touch even though they don't live at home. They seem to have a pretty good set of morals and great work ethics. We took some awesome family vacations together and we remiss about those times often. We have some neat family traditions at Thanksgiving and Christmas which the kids primarily drive now. I didn't sit around all of these years moping, feeling sorry for myself, and cursing the world or my wife. I have friends, hobbies, and my wife and I did do things together. Our kids have no idea this is part of our past. I'm 100% certain of this.


I do think the issue is now with me. I just can't seem to "get over it". What is some of the work you folks think I need to do? What's the first step to start a true R?
Ok. It is hard to get an accurate tone while writing and reading posts, so often they can come across different from how they are intended.

And I can certainly understand the not knowing someone until you live with them.....I knew my first husband for 3 months before we got married and he turned nasty almost overnight when he realized that marriage and ultimately kids meant he couldn't do him and screw everyone else. And he had very specific ideas about where women belonged.

I divorced him, we didn't get along for some years, and have more recently made some peace with each other and our kids are also thriving. I would tell you that's because I'm stable and a strong personality, but I digress.

My ex would probably tell you I was lazy too, but the fact was I had terrible PPD and no family or support, plus a husband that was a nasty jerk and didn't life a finger to help raise his kids. I'm not suggesting this is you guys, only that there are all kinds of personal issues that can cause what from the outside looks like horribly lazy and selfish behavior.

As for now, you've got to let go of your anger.....there is no possible circumstance where it will serve you well. I find the best tool for this is compassion.....true my ex is a jerk but ultimately he does try to give what he can. It's just that he doesn't have much.....he's not evil, his parents just raised him to be selfish and look down on women. People's lousy actions are seldom really personal toward you.....they're a result of their own demons. I think too many recipients of lousy behavior take it personally.....this is an outlook that's helped me get past my CSA.

Try to imagine that your wife was likely battling her own demons and didn't do what she did to stick it to you. You aren't required to get past her affair, so if you ultimately decide you can't that's ok. But it's been 18 years.....it really is time to go or get off the pot. I recommend first dealing with your own anger at life and having some compassion for your wife. Not because she was a victim or you somehow wronged her but because she was very likely giving what she had to give at that time in your lives, even if it wasn't much. People do tend to give what they have to give.

If after you do that you find you still can't get past her affair then divorce as amicably as possible. If there's anything else you need from her that you haven't made clear then make it clear to her now.
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post #42 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:27 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

Marriages are propped up by only two legs. If either leg fails or gets unhaaaaaapy, the marriage is done. Do you trust each other to hold this bargain forever? I didn't think so.
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post #43 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:48 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

I just read her post on SI. I actually don't blame you for being so angry. I find it hard to believe that a WW would dare to insist on having male friends to hang out with and talk with. All that time away from you, hanging out with other men and she never hooked up? It was only that one time make out in the guy's truck? Sorry, I find that a bridge too far for me.

Also, all those times that she's "resting" at her parents, not taking your calls, could she have been out with an OM. You're busting your but raising the kids and keeping the home in order and she's leaving the house to rest and nap else where? Hmm, doesn't pass the smell test.

Could her FINALLY waking up be due to guilt of what she did with guy in pick up truck or some other guy? Probably not, this is a woman that placed her desire for hanging with men over her husband and her family. No, what's she's experiencing is dread. You finally standing up for yourself by letting her know you're dumping her adulteress behind has shocked her. Made her realize that she doesn't want to be a middle aged divorcee.

So is the change real? Has she shown through her actions that she loves you? A poly to find out if there have been other affairs should be done.

I can understand wanting to continue this new R, she's the mother of your children. Future grandchildren seem more enjoyable with their mother by your side instead of a woman that's not vested in them.
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post #44 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:39 PM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

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Originally Posted by fleek View Post
I completely own my part of the marital issues prior to the A. I think my posts are pretty clear on that point. The A is on her. She did break the marriage contract. My behavior cannot compel her to do something that she thinks is unmoral or wrong. That same logic applies to me for the ONS. I had other options available to me and I chose to be petty and try to purposely inflict pain upon her. That's not a good thing.

I can't possibly put every detail in these posts. She fully admits she shirked her mom and wife duties early in our M. It wasn't just birthday parties or similar events, she would go to my mom's house on weekends and sleep for hours while my mom watched the kids. She would go to her parent's house after work and stay and lounge for hours before heading home. I busted my butt working overtime for a mortgage down payment while she would nap or talk on the phone for hours. I would do laundry when possible, I would clean the house when possible. I gave baths. I changed diapers. I organized lunches, clothes, and other stuff for them at night too. I didn't expect her to do it all. I just needed her to be a partner. It wasn't feasible for me to do everything. This imbalance of the workload wasn't so apparent in our M until I started school. She would do dumb stuff like hide laundry and mail. She would spend money on trivial stuff or loan it to some family member and not pay bills. She wouldn't mail bills even when they were ready to go with stamps and all. She was selfish, lazy, and self centered. She would pout if she didn't get her way over trivial things. I didn't start out yelling and demanding she get off her lazy butt and do work. It did get tiresome after years of this same bs. I kept thinking she would see the big picture and pitch in. She focused entirely on the here and now and that didn't involve housework. Later in the M. I was the one helping with homework, having difficult talks with them. Pushing them to excel or not settle for less than they were capable of. Explaining right and wrong. I doled out punishment and praise. Mom was the fun one. I didn't trust her to raise them even half of the time. I do have some regrets, what parent doesn't, but I did the best I could at the time. She focused on work friends and other things that validated her and not necessarily her family. I think she alludes to some of this in her post.

I focused on how I missed some of these traits while we were dating. Thing is, you really don't know someone until you live with them. You don't know what kind of parent they will be. You don't know exactly The truth is we got married way too young because of a pregnancy. We both needed to mature some. Her more than me. I had fears of ending up dirt poor and not being able to provide for them. I felt it was my job to provide and her job to handle the bulk of the housework. That didn't pan out. It wasn't an ideal situation.

Also, to bigfoot, I almost never drink. I don't think alcohol is an issue for either of us.

I'm painting a grim picture but it wasn't all bad. In spite of all of this our kids turned out to be well adjusted, well balanced, level headed adults. One has graduated college and just got married and he and his wife seem crazy about each other. One is close to graduating with her teaching certificate. The youngest is living at home and going to community college. She wants to be a pediatric nurse. There's no substance issues with any of them. They have a varied circle of friends. They have solid relationships with their grandparents and other extended family members. The oldest two keep in touch even though they don't live at home. They seem to have a pretty good set of morals and great work ethics. We took some awesome family vacations together and we remiss about those times often. We have some neat family traditions at Thanksgiving and Christmas which the kids primarily drive now. I didn't sit around all of these years moping, feeling sorry for myself, and cursing the world or my wife. I have friends, hobbies, and my wife and I did do things together. Our kids have no idea this is part of our past. I'm 100% certain of this.

I do think the issue is now with me. I just can't seem to "get over it". What is some of the work you folks think I need to do? What's the first step to start a true R?
I agree - the issue is now with you. I personally think this marriage is worth saving. You have gone through the worst - and now you are at the doors of your golden years. Why throw it all away - just because you "can't get over it". Let go of the resentment, take a risk. She has done her part of the work - why don't you do yours. Just think how awesome it could be if you did!

If you divorce her now and start all over - who knows who or what you will end up with! Frankly, you are still going to have to do the work to make a new relationship work out! And you will be taking a risk opening your heart to anyone new!

I would find a good IC and start to work on yourself! I personally believe "getting over it" is a choice you make and you are choosing to hold on to your resentment and disillusionment with her. It may not be simple and may require you to learn to change your thinking process - but it is totally doable - if you want it and are willing to do the work! It sounds like your wife really wants it and is already doing work towards that goal! The ball is totally in your court!

The first step to a real R is to commit to stay with your wife and make EVERY effort you have to make it work!! You say she is doing her part and has already taken that step - just do the same!

My vote (if it counted) would be you stick it out and do your part in fixing yourself, then you both do your part to build TOGETHER the kind of marriage you both want! And then have a marvelous golden life together! I am willing to bet you will be glad you did in the end!!
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post #45 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:36 AM
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Re: WW Posted on Another Site. Not Sure How to Proceed

First let me say that I admire the fact that you stayed and saved your children from suffering the consequences of their mother’s dumbass-ery … her affair and uninvolved mothering style. If you had divorced 18 years ago and the children were left in her primary custody I shudder to think how that would have affected them in the long-term. For that reason alone there is no “sunk cost” in your situation, those 18 years were of tremendous value to your children.

I have no idea if your wife had an epiphany 2.5 years ago when you told her of your intent to divorce OR if her behavior since that time is an elaborate and manipulative ruse. There are no guarantees but I am here to tell you that there are people in this world that are capable of pulling off this exact type of ruse. I was married to one.

My 28 year marriage followed a similar course. Once our child was raised and launched into college I pulled the plug on my marriage. The difference is that my husband knew very well of my plans. He evidently did not believe I was serious because when I did leave he acted gob-smacked and frantically started an all-out effort of self-improvement to persuade me to give him another chance. After a few months I (stupidly) decided to give him one, he was in IC and things seemed to be genuinely improving between us. Almost one year later I found that he was seeing (yet) another woman. He had been stringing me along until he could find my replacement.

I do not believe that people who consistently behave in a selfish/compassionless manner (for years) all of a sudden develop empathy and a conscious … IC or no. My opinion is from experience and not “expert” I know, however it is something to consider.
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