Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

User Tag List

 180Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Warm in the summer, cold in the winter
Posts: 2,198
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Ella, you are a human being, flaws in all, and will never be perfect. That holds true for me also, and everyone posting here at TAM. Nobody is perfect. Being a betrayed spouse, I can't tell you how badly I was hurt. I can tell you I tried to kill myself, pause right here, do you understand what it really feels like to see death as the only answer? I had never thought of suicide before, never had I felt as hopeless as I did that night. Just me and my weapon at the kitchen table that night. Alas I'm still here, but for months afterward I still wished I wasn't here. Death would have ended my pain, death was my way of dealing with the devastation. Everything else was dead, no big deal if I die too. Have you ever been in that mindset that has you at such a low point? I don't blame my wife entirely, I coped in the worst way possible, and I'm now a much different man.

Wayward spouses are still human beings also. I can only really speak about my wife, as I have seen what she goes through and how she copes. I know for a fact my wife would give her life if it meant she didn't hurt me with her affair. But what's done is done, and we can't change anything. Many here feel my wife is a vile and cruel person, what she did was vile and cruel. That doesn't mean she can't change, that doesn't mean she can't have value and worth. My wife has worked very hard to prove she is worthy and valuable. The posters here still may not accept that, they have their opinion and I'm ok with that. I don't protect her here, if I'm here ten years from now maybe I will. It's still to soon for me to protect her. That doesn't make her efforts any less, it doesn't mean she won't have worth and value. It doesn't mean she won't be respected down the road. Nobody knows what she will be in ten years including me.

I believe people can change, some who cheat can and do change, then again some don't. Some understand and get what they have done, some don't. It comes down to a persons core belief, that they accept their flaws, work on them and become a better person. Some can self reflect, make the changes and become better people. Our MC had to tell my wife on numerous occasions that what she chose to do was bad, but she can be a good person and is. Honestly the first time our therapist said this I thought she was crazy, nope, she was correct.

Everyone has the potential to do good or bad. My wife chose to make the worst decision of her life, and that decision had life altering effects. What she is doing now is also life altering, but now it's in a positive way. If you didn't know my wife had a six month long affair with her co-worker. That affair produced twin boys, and I found out the paternity two days after d-day. D-day was two and a half years after the affair stopped. My wife ended the affair.

Forgiving yourself is necessary, you need to so you can move forward in healing. If you don't forgive yourself you can't heal, not healing means you aren't making all of the necessary changes to yourself. Constantly beating yourself up is not healthy either, learn from you choices and make better choices in the future. But that means you need to move forward without forgetting.


Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see.


Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
drifting on is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:09 PM
Member
 
katiecrna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,588
Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

You remind me of those men that were jocks in high school that always reminisce about the big game even though it was 20 years ago. Like they peaked in high school and it was the best time of their life so they always talk about it, and they look for ways to randomly bring it up.

Ella it's over. Let it go. Stop finding excuses and ways to bring it back to life. You say you came on this forum because you wanted to talk about your husband. No you didn't. Most of your posts are about your affair that happened years ago. Didn't you get kicked off a forum for keep talking about the affair?

Leave it in the past. It's over. I don't know why you get satisfaction talking about it so much and why you feel the need to continue to talk about it.

I am not going to enable this problem by continuing to participate in it. I wish you luck in your relationship and in your life
katiecrna is offline  
post #18 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:16 PM
Member
 
Married but Happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,521
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

If we cannot have compassion (eventually) for a remorseful WS, then we are no better, and deserve none either. Compassion and forgiveness are the hallmarks of all religions and major philosophies, and is a trait that makes us fully human.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
Married but Happy is offline  
 
post #19 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
You remind me of those men that were jocks in high school that always reminisce about the big game even though it was 20 years ago. Like they peaked in high school and it was the best time of their life so they always talk about it, and they look for ways to randomly bring it up.

Ella it's over. Let it go. Stop finding excuses and ways to bring it back to life. You say you came on this forum because you wanted to talk about your husband. No you didn't. Most of your posts are about your affair that happened years ago. Didn't you get kicked off a forum for keep talking about the affair?

Leave it in the past. It's over. I don't know why you get satisfaction talking about it so much and why you feel the need to continue to talk about it.

I am not going to enable this problem by continuing to participate in it. I wish you luck in your relationship and in your life
No, I got banned from SurvivingInfidelity for saying that a BS was being cruel by wishing the OW would commit suicide. I got banned from Loveshack because people believed I was lying about marrying a 28-year-old man at 18. And as to CWI, please read my post again. I'll re-post it here.

Quote:
The affair and its aftermath are no longer the massive part of my life they once were, but rather like a plague survivor who has regained her life, I want to stay at the emotional bedsides of the sick and suffering, and offer support to the people for whom many here only feel disdain. That's so much more important than cataloging my happiness and my minor trials.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #20 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

@drifting on, I couldn't agree more. And I'm so, so sorry for your pain and suffering. I'm sorry death seemed like the only option for you back then. I have been there, albeit for other reasons. I'm so glad you and your wife are reconciling.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #21 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:25 PM
Moderator
 
MattMatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: England
Posts: 19,197
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayOwen View Post
Noted, and apologies, I'm stepping back -- I'm getting too worked up.
No worries. Make yourself a nice cup of tea and eat some custard cream biscuits. That'll help you chill.

Triggering is horrible.

My own being cheated on was so weird that I am rarely triggered on TAM. But it does happen from time to time.

http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk
http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk...-cheaters.html (Be afraid UK cheaters! CheaterVille has come to the UK!
MattMatt is online now  
post #22 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:29 PM
Member
 
DustyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Edging slowly closer to the frozen tundra
Posts: 459
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post

If you haven't read the thread, it was basically my argument that even wayward spouses, being that they are human beings, have a fundamental right to self-care and self-compassion, and that such would actually enable them to be better healers to their betrayed spouses when they needed to be. The counterargument was that any talk of the wayward spouse feeling anything but self-hatred was a knife in the back of the betrayed.
I do not think of self-care and self-compassion as "rights". IMO, they are fundamental obligations.

People who do not engage in self-care and self-compassion render themselves incapable of offering care and compassion to others.

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
DustyDog is offline  
post #23 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:34 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,872
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
No worries. Make yourself a nice cup of tea and eat some custard cream biscuits. That'll help you chill.

Triggering is horrible.

My own being cheated on was so weird that I am rarely triggered on TAM. But it does happen from time to time.
Tea and custard cream biscuits.Now it's you who have triggered me.
It would be a thread jack though and I have been warned.
Andy1001 is offline  
post #24 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,174
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
You remind me of those men that were jocks in high school that always reminisce about the big game even though it was 20 years ago. Like they peaked in high school and it was the best time of their life so they always talk about it, and they look for ways to randomly bring it up.

Ella it's over. Let it go. Stop finding excuses and ways to bring it back to life. You say you came on this forum because you wanted to talk about your husband. No you didn't. Most of your posts are about your affair that happened years ago. Didn't you get kicked off a forum for keep talking about the affair?

Leave it in the past. It's over. I don't know why you get satisfaction talking about it so much and why you feel the need to continue to talk about it.

I am not going to enable this problem by continuing to participate in it. I wish you luck in your relationship and in your life
Agree, and think that maybe Ella, you personally still feel bad about what you did, and you need to forgive yourself. That has nothing to do with anyone else, but you. The title of your thread here seems way off...lol No one in that other thread remotely referred to you as the devil. Cheating has consequences, and not just for the BS. You are suffering your own consequences, now...guilt, shame, etc. Until you reconcile those feelings, you might always have the need to keep discussing your affair. If your husband has forgiven you and truly loves and trusts you, then your need to keep talking about self care, compassion, etc is more about you, than him or anyone else. You don't need our approval or anyone's approval to feel good about yourself. That's probably what led you to have an affair to begin with...you have to heal that part of yourself that needs other people's approval.
*Deidre* is offline  
post #25 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Deidre* View Post
Agree, and think that maybe Ella, you personally still feel bad about what you did, and you need to forgive yourself. That has nothing to do with anyone else, but you. The title of your thread here seems way off...lol No one in that other thread remotely referred to you as the devil. Cheating has consequences, and not just for the BS. You are suffering your own consequences, now...guilt, shame, etc. Until you reconcile those feelings, you might always have the need to keep discussing your affair.
The title was hyperbolic and, yes, does reflect what I feel in the aftermath of my infidelity. I feel that perhaps by extending forgiveness and empathy to others who have been where I am, I will be better able to extend it to myself. Or, at the very least, harden myself towards those who would criticise me. I have never thought of compassion and forgiveness to be a thing which I can extend to myself. Even if I could, things like kindness always seem to carry so much more weight then bestowed upon me by someone else, rather than given to myself.

I realised I could go two ways with this: I could eternally seek to fill the gaping black hole within, which A. is impossible and B. could lead me down a very dark path again if I should start to depend too much upon the person who comforts me. Or, I could play healer to those like me, giving to them what I cannot give to myself, and heal myself by feeling gratified that I am healing others. I chose the latter path because not only does it really feel good to help other people, there's virtually no risk that I should become overly attached to anyone whom I comfort. I only form strong co-dependent bonds with white knights, not damsels or dudes in distress.


EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #26 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,003
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
I am beginning to understand that, yes, the wayward spouse's pain might further trigger a betrayed spouse, but on an emotional level, I have yet to discover precisely why.
If I may paste the last thing I wrote on the other thread
Most of us see that pain you talk about is very basic consequences for very bad actions. This being the very basic step in understanding the magnitude of what they have done. It's actually a very good and healthy thing for a WS to experience. No one should attempt to minimize it, at least at first. They need to learn from it. Just like the pain you feel when you put your hand in a fire is a good thing. It's a warning to you. If a child did this and you could some how shut off the pain center in it's brain, it may lead the child to do the exact thing again and in the process lose it's hand. Pain is not necessarily a bad thing. In many cases it is good and healthy, as is shame. Oh how much our society would benefit from more shame in it.

The trigger is because the pain is disproportionate (much smaller) to the pain the BS suffers, and the BS is innocent. Plus almost all WS are selfish and self-centered, that doesn't change without years of work. So almost all of the time part of the pain is the WS yearning to return to the sins that have cause irreparable damage to the BS. The feeling is. You are yearning for the very thing that has almost killed me and changed my life for the worse? What kind of monster are you? You are supposed to love and protect me!

I would reminder you Ella that the pain you feel when thinking about the trauma of the stuff the other man did to you is similar to what most BS feel about the infidelity they suffered. Same types of lies same types of manipulation. If they try to R they are trying to R with the very person who caused them such pain. Seeing their WS sad because they can't continue to behave in the very same manner that caused such pain is going to trigger most. Your husband kind of missed a lot of that.

Last edited by sokillme; 02-19-2017 at 01:58 PM.
sokillme is offline  
post #27 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 02:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,003
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by drifting on View Post
If you could honestly show compassion to my wife AND THE OM, then you are a far better person then I. Not that I'm some great person, not that I'm better then anyone else, but I just can't give compassion to OM.
This leads to another great philosophical discussion does everyone deserve compassion? From the Christian stand point the answer is no. We all deserve none. Compassion is seen as a gift that is undeserved but given anyway.
sokillme is offline  
post #28 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 02:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,003
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
"Don't you understand that he did this to you? He's not your lover, he's your abuser. We're here to help you." They all had a battered woman narrative, and to them I fit that role.
When you post stuff like this Ella I always want to ask you. What if he was your lover would that have made what you did any less wrong? Whether the AP was Gandhi (what irony if you know about Gandhi and his treatment of women) or the Devil has nothing to do with your infidelity. You broke your promise.
sokillme is offline  
post #29 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
When you post stuff like this Ella I always want to ask you. What if he was your lover would that have made what you did any less wrong? Whether the AP was Gandhi (what irony if you know about Gandhi and his treatment of women) or the Devil has nothing to do with your infidelity. You broke your promise.
And to that I have no defense. I never have. I will say as I have been saying, that the part of my Affair where I flirted with the other man and fell for him, before the abuse started, was entirely, fully, and 100% my fault and my responsibility. It was selfish and short-sighted, and I have no defense. I broke my vows to the man I promised to love. My actions could have and should have damaged him irreparably. We are phenomenally lucky I didn't cause him more pain than I did. It is still my duty and my honor to help him deal with whatever triggers he may have stemming from it for the rest of our lives.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #30 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 02:42 PM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,138
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
And to that I have no defense. I never have. I will say as I have been saying, that the part of my Affair where I flirted with the other man and fell for him, before the abuse started, was entirely, fully, and 100% my fault and my responsibility. It was selfish and short-sighted, and I have no defense. I broke my vows to the man I promised to love. My actions could have and should have damaged him irreparably. We are phenomenally lucky I didn't cause him more pain than I did. It is still my duty and my honor to help him deal with whatever triggers he may have stemming from it for the rest of our lives.
Why do you think the bolded, Ella?

Why "should" he have been damaged by what you did? And why irreparably?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What advice would you give to a wayward/betrayed spouse and why? EllaSuaveterre Coping with Infidelity 202 02-20-2017 01:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome