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post #46 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 07:49 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

My ww spending time away when I kicked her out, time for her to think and deciding to do her own research (this was before seeing the MC to start on R), the fog was lifting. (And I'll admit there were a few who PM'd me to retain a bit of hope)
She told me she was starting to see the fantasy. (It was a fun fantasy for her, but not for me of course.) She was talking to family as well and was becoming depressed with her life choices about 10 days before she asked for R. She was figuring out on her own that I was right about the fog and her actions - which she thought were original. Deep in the affair, she had said "We have a special connection you cannot understand!" between her and the OM. The reality that was becoming clear was that the OM wasn't true love, just sex and chemicals. That I was making more efforts to take care of her and our son, long before and currently than any way the OM was. Actual love. The more she read about the fog on her own, the more she saw the truth. That I wasn't the bad guy she thought I was. I still had my issues and still improving myself.

I still hope for the best for us. Things are different, still. But by all means, the relationship I have with HER today is still healthier and more respectful than others I see around me in RL or online. She still beats herself up sometimes and I support helping her in the NOW and for the future.


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Last edited by TaDor; 02-20-2017 at 05:47 AM. Reason: fixed grammar error / might have been accidental paste.
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post #47 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 08:09 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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From both therapy and the book "Not just Friends" - there is the discussion about the grieving process from the wayward. Its still crappy to the WS, but understandable - human feelings are also involved.

For those trying for real R, that process will take a while. Hence, from the time we went from therapy, talk at a park, to my wife's place was her pulling the trigger to tell the POSOM to no more contact. The other times, I had tried to dictate the NC process and rules (way too early). But with the past experience, here and the book (She hadn't read "Not Just Friends" yet) - I put it on her, to SEE how *SHE* was going to do it, to determine if she was being legit or full of crap. I did not tell her what to say or what to write (she did show me the text before sending it) and when he called, she asked me first before answering. It was loud enough for me to hear his words. She deleted him, blocked him, then went through her phone to delete his pics on FB and memory. (I actually have his photos because I backed up her previous phone)

She still had some tears when she was finishing up the deleting process... but she told me she was angry for having them. Just has I still think about the affair, so does she - as we had talked about it in detail during and after our last few therapy sessions. Random thoughts that come and go. She still apologizes for her actions today as some things trigger her.

Of course, there are the WS that never R. As we all know, very very few ever become real relationships. Waywards go cold or crazy or vindictive or depressed when the dust settles. I forgot if it was here or elsewhere, a wayward wife got divorced and involved with druggie guy(s). He got the kids. Some time later, she realized her mistake and tried to come back "home", but he was done with her. So she went back to the OM (if I remember right) about the 1 year after D-Day, she along with OM died in a car crash - she was poor, bad health and unwanted.
Unless she really fixes what is broken in her she is vulnerable to do it again, and you are taking a big risk. This place and others are riddled with people whose WS apologized did all the right things and in 5 or 10 years later they were right back where you were in even worse shape. She needs a lot more the being sorry to change. WS are always a greater risk because they lack character. Character takes a lifetime to build and a lifetime to change.
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post #48 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:12 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I don't know. I don't know if certain things can be moved on from. The only other traumatic event in my life took ten years- almost to the day- to get over. I would have to stop believing in any part of myself, that I was at fault for the abuse I received. I would have to believe in my own goodness and innocence, and I do not, deep down. I would have to believe that I am worthy of all the empathy anyone could ever give me, and that I deserve no one's scorn. I would have to stop remembering the 10th of October, 2014 as the day it all fell apart. I would have to get his voice out of my ears. I would have to get the voices of my mother's friends, of my friends, out of my ears. The accusations and declarations of worthlessness, those would have to be rendered meaningless and obsolete forever.

All of it would have to be gone. Not just the abuse, but also the infidelity. That for which I blame myself. I would have to somehow be absolved of it forever. That does not, from where I am standing, seem possible. So the best I can do, for now, is to give other wayward spouses the absolution which I cannot give to myself.
You don't get to do that. Only the wronged party, your husband, can do that and it sounds like he did you just don't want to accept it. The fact that you have remorse and guilt about this may mean you won't do it again. Most waywards don't haven any of that kinda self reflection. Why not concentrate on teaching that instead of this "forgive themselves" thing. Accountability on what they did is a better life lesson.
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post #49 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

I am aware of that. We also see people who rug-sweep for decades and stay together in a bad marriage... We have talked about this. I have run this through my head. I've asked few a number of times in the beginning of this that she has to be ALL IN. Not just for our son, either. I know myself in that I also know that I would never trust my wife or ANY future woman 100%. I'll say this, her drinking was a major problem in our relationship. And all these months of her not being drunk on a daily basis is WONDERFUL. She is very clear minded compared to before. Her moods are very stable compared to before since she's not having drug interactions anymore. So yeah, honestly our relationship is healthier now than before the affair, sucks how we got there but it's easily true. Before the affair - I was considering break up options - had things continued on the path (and let's say there was no affair) then she'd likely be dead or we would have broken up by now anyway. Twice before the affair and 3 times during - her drinking and medicated use had put her in danger, with some ER visits in that she could have died if I wasn't there to help and solve these issues. I didn't know the full scope of the problem back then.

Being clear-minded, her character is a lot better. She is a much better mom to our child than she was before, more education driven, more protective and more aware of his needs. We are more family oriented rather than club/party. We stayed home for New Years. We are doing better still since we moved and remaking our home. She is smiling more today like she used to when we first meet.

We still have normal couples issues, but overall - we really talk more, share our feelings more. I hope this continues to improve and lasts.

Ugh, I'll update on my thread.

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post #50 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 12:23 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by Ella
How exactly is sympathy akin to invalidation? They are the opposite! One must first understand someone's pain, thereby validating it at least in some aspect, before they can show sympathy.
First, on the other thread you sympathized with my pain and tried to validate my pain instead of addressing anything else I posted. I'm not in pain. I'm not bitter. I'm happily recovered for two decades with my lovely former wayward wife. I've also got several former close wayward friends that I've helped coach through and out of the wayward mindset. Showing uninvited sympathy and "validation" without reason and for non-existent pain is a highly manipulative diversion and invalidation technique.


It's funny, I did a short search of jld's posting history earlier today for an example to give you {recalling I'd seen her do it several times} and all I really had to do was wait a few hours.

Here's jld's recent post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
There is probably too much bitterness in the betrayeds to have any real dialogue, Ella.

Please do not internalize their pain. It does not belong to you.
Supposedly ALL of the betrayed's here are too bitter and in pain to be able to converse with you and you should, according to JLD, dismiss our opinions and constructive criticism because we are, seemingly, just trying to make internalize our pain. Pretty invalidating post, wouldn't you say?


But speaking of pain and bitterness~~~

You may not have noticed just a short bit earlier in the thread JLD dropped this completely cruel and mean post implying that the betrayed here at TAM aren't like your husband.

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I don't think he gives away his power as easily as some, Ella. If he were emotionally dependent on you, he may have reacted more like other betrayed spouses you have read about.
Apparently we were all too emotionally dependent on our wayward wives and we've all given away our power, so our betrayal circumstances have made us all uniquely mean and maladjusted. She tries to distance herself from actually saying "the betrayed persons here at TAM" because that might get her in trouble for name
calling or otherwise being too blatantly mean so she just refers to "betrayed spouses you have read about" while slamming us all with the inference just the same.

Isn't jld the one that encouraged you to write about this and start threads discussing this stuff here at TAM in the first place??? Maybe she's co-opting you to internalize and express HER pain, anger and bitterness. She's posted here almost 20,000 posts, so she certainly knew exactly the responses you were going to get here in "Coping with Infidelity". IMO, she set you up, let you take the heat so she could do some drive-by posts to drop bombs on us mean, bitter betrayed spouses. Pretty cruel and much more cruel than the MAJORITY of betrayed spouses that posted to you actually TRYING to help you {granted some are much more triggery and it got super repetitive and off-topic here and there but MOST were trying to get you to understand why running a prison ministry in a victim recovery forum is/was a bad idea but it's a free country and your threads are more on topic here than the dozens of "cheater never change threads" so post away as long as you don't mind all us bitter betrayed who happen to be here too and may chime in here and there}


Perhaps, if you do write some kind of self-help thing for waywards maybe try to refer to withdrawal from the affair partner in more physiological terms. Like a drug or alcohol addict going cold turkey and "withdrawing" from their nasty and destructive substance of choice versus the wayward needing to "process their feelings for the OM/OW" and all that focus on how they need to legitimately and painstakingly put the relationship behind them like an old real ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend {versus a paramour} before they truly build a new one WITH THEIR GOD GIVEN SPOUSE. Withdrawal is a normal response to the absence of a habitual behavior whether good or bad. If the betrayed spouse left them and abandoned them {say, for discovering their cheating} many wayward spouses would likewise go through withdrawal from their betrayed spouse {I've seen this happen even after rationalizing how much they hate them}. There's nothing special about the affair partner, it's just what humans do and go through when they end a relationship with anyone. Further, my wife and I, when coaching a wayward spouse, will encourage them, should they even THINK about the affair partner to envision a "stop sign" and actively train themselves to stop the behavior. Aversion techniques help too. If the affair partner is referred to they should be referred to as the affair partner's betrayed spouse's {first name}, wife/husband. The faster they "process" through "withdrawal" the better and they certainly should be encouraged not to lean upon their betrayed spouse for sympathy and empathy as they "withdrawal", the more they "suffer in silence" the more their betrayed spouse might actually be empathetic {seeing them suffering and conflicted while demonstrating restraint by not dumping such emotions on their victim}.

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post #51 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 12:24 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I am aware of that. We also see people who rug-sweep for decades and stay together in a bad marriage... We have talked about this. I have run this through my head. I've asked few a number of times in the beginning of this that she has to be ALL IN. Not just for our son, either. I know myself in that I also know that I would never trust my wife or ANY future woman 100%. I'll say this, her drinking was a major problem in our relationship. And all these months of her not being drunk on a daily basis is WONDERFUL. She is very clear minded compared to before. Her moods are very stable compared to before since she's not having drug interactions anymore. So yeah, honestly our relationship is healthier now than before the affair, sucks how we got there but it's easily true. Before the affair - I was considering break up options - had things continued on the path (and let's say there was no affair) then she'd likely be dead or we would have broken up by now anyway. Twice before the affair and 3 times during - her drinking and medicated use had put her in danger, with some ER visits in that she could have died if I wasn't there to help and solve these issues. I didn't know the full scope of the problem back then.

Being clear-minded, her character is a lot better. She is a much better mom to our child than she was before, more education driven, more protective and more aware of his needs. We are more family oriented rather than club/party. We stayed home for New Years. We are doing better still since we moved and remaking our home. She is smiling more today like she used to when we first meet.

We still have normal couples issues, but overall - we really talk more, share our feelings more. I hope this continues to improve and lasts.

Ugh, I'll update on my thread.
Just don't put all your eggs in one basket. Make sure you will be able to survive if old habits creep in. Stories like yours scare the hell out of me, but then again you probably know my MO by now. Anyway back to this thread.
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post #52 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 02:41 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion.
Me personally? I go back and forth between apathy and even pity for her.

With a rare occasional bout of thankfulness for giving me the reason I needed to dump her ass.

My life is so much better now with out hahaha. I love it!

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #53 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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First, on the other thread you sympathized with my pain and tried to validate my pain instead of addressing anything else I posted. I'm not in pain. I'm not bitter. I'm happily recovered for two decades with my lovely former wayward wife. I've also got several former close wayward friends that I've helped coach through and out of the wayward mindset. Showing uninvited sympathy and "validation" without reason and for non-existent pain is a highly manipulative diversion and invalidation technique.


It's funny, I did a short search of jld's posting history earlier today for an example to give you {recalling I'd seen her do it several times} and all I really had to do was wait a few hours.

Here's jld's recent post:



Supposedly ALL of the betrayed's here are too bitter and in pain to be able to converse with you and you should, according to JLD, dismiss our opinions and constructive criticism because we are, seemingly, just trying to make internalize our pain. Pretty invalidating post, wouldn't you say?


But speaking of pain and bitterness~~~

You may not have noticed just a short bit earlier in the thread JLD dropped this completely cruel and mean post implying that the betrayed here at TAM aren't like your husband.



Apparently we were all too emotionally dependent on our wayward wives and we've all given away our power, so our betrayal circumstances have made us all uniquely mean and maladjusted. She tries to distance herself from actually saying "the betrayed persons here at TAM" because that might get her in trouble for name
calling or otherwise being too blatantly mean so she just refers to "betrayed spouses you have read about" while slamming us all with the inference just the same.

Isn't jld the one that encouraged you to write about this and start threads discussing this stuff here at TAM in the first place??? Maybe she's co-opting you to internalize and express HER pain, anger and bitterness. She's posted here almost 20,000 posts, so she certainly knew exactly the responses you were going to get here in "Coping with Infidelity". IMO, she set you up, let you take the heat so she could do some drive-by posts to drop bombs on us mean, bitter betrayed spouses. Pretty cruel and much more cruel than the MAJORITY of betrayed spouses that posted to you actually TRYING to help you {granted some are much more triggery and it got super repetitive and off-topic here and there but MOST were trying to get you to understand why running a prison ministry in a victim recovery forum is/was a bad idea but it's a free country and your threads are more on topic here than the dozens of "cheater never change threads" so post away as long as you don't mind all us bitter betrayed who happen to be here too and may chime in here and there}


Perhaps, if you do write some kind of self-help thing for waywards maybe try to refer to withdrawal from the affair partner in more physiological terms. Like a drug or alcohol addict going cold turkey and "withdrawing" from their nasty and destructive substance of choice versus the wayward needing to "process their feelings for the OM/OW" and all that focus on how they need to legitimately and painstakingly put the relationship behind them like an old real ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend {versus a paramour} before they truly build a new one WITH THEIR GOD GIVEN SPOUSE. Withdrawal is a normal response to the absence of a habitual behavior whether good or bad. If the betrayed spouse left them and abandoned them {say, for discovering their cheating} many wayward spouses would likewise go through withdrawal from their betrayed spouse {I've seen this happen even after rationalizing how much they hate them}. There's nothing special about the affair partner, it's just what humans do and go through when they end a relationship with anyone. Further, my wife and I, when coaching a wayward spouse, will encourage them, should they even THINK about the affair partner to envision a "stop sign" and actively train themselves to stop the behavior. Aversion techniques help too. If the affair partner is referred to they should be referred to as the affair partner's betrayed spouse's {first name}, wife/husband. The faster they "process" through "withdrawal" the better and they certainly should be encouraged not to lean upon their betrayed spouse for sympathy and empathy as they "withdrawal", the more they "suffer in silence" the more their betrayed spouse might actually be empathetic {seeing them suffering and conflicted while demonstrating restraint by not dumping such emotions on their victim}.
I know it's been some time since I posted; I've torn a muscle in my shoulder and have been quite unable to type for the last several days. I have actually seen a guide like you mentioned for wayward spouses on SurvivingInfidelity, in which the authoress encourages her fellow waywards to consider their affair partner to be like a drug, and the longing for them to be like withdrawal. It was actually that article which inspired me to write mine. In her article, she wrote,

Quote:
I felt a connection. The only way I can describe it is haunted, where I 'd feel like he was in the room with me. When one of those waves hit it was really hard. But I just decided that a connection didn't mean I had to keep being connected.
I can't find the other things that she posted, but I recall reading that her pain-this emptiness she felt without her OM- got so bad she would have to pull over to the side of the road when she was driving and cry and scream. She would lock herself in the bathroom at work and cry to her God to take her mental and emotional anguish away from her.

When I first read that (and I will find it later, mark me) I actually had to put my phone down a couple times and process. I personally didn't feel that kind of pain over my own AP, but anyone who's ever lost anyone dear can relate to that. The anguish of grief is universal.

Technically, every emotional pleasure you can get from anything is all just dopamine and serotonin flooding the brain. Every grief, from the minute to the life-shattering, is due to neurochemicals.To say that the affair is merely a chemical reaction is true, but so is eating ice cream. To call it withdrawal doesn't seem to quite do justice to the amount of sheer turmoil this woman (and thousands like her) are in when they lose their AP.

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post #54 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:49 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Anyway, the point is that I'm generally able to see both sides of almost any story, and have compassion for most people. Even if I dislike them or find their actions distasteful or immoral, I can usually understand to some extent what made them feel led to act that way.
I would make for a very poor prosecutor, because were I to be at a murder trial, I could comfort the victim and the perpetrator in the same hour! "I know you didn't mean to kill him", I would say, to the shock and horror of the bereaved.

But the devil used to be God's favorite angel, and there are so many people crying in courtrooms, be they murder trials or divorce
You are very kind. Remain kind. Keep up the charity shown to all. Life will harden you....soon enough.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................
Yes, and God is the only one who can forgive Satan. He is the Father of the original Wayward.

All manner of things come from the Creator. Good things and bad things. These are labels that we use to organize our lives, survive in our short lives.

It was Jesus who said: "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do". A true statement from God. But this line of thought is not so helpful for [us] lesser beings.

It is one thing to "forgive". It is another thing to understand human weakness and turn your cheek, only to be slaughtered for your beliefs.

Transgressions need consequences and punishment.

A puppy that pees on the floor gets the newspaper "whack" across the nose to prevent the "bad" behavior. What he did was not bad in reality, but bad in situational context.

People are selfish and violent. This is reality. But in context "civilization" cannot survive a lack of law and order.

Wayward behavior violates the vows given on ones wedding day. Broken vows can be forgiven intellectually, rarely emotionally.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #55 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 12:56 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Hope your shoulder feels better.


One of the problems with SI is they have a separate protected wayward forum. Trying to navigate your way through this wayward labyrinth by relying on the advice, experience and supposed wisdom of only other similarly lost and wayward thinking persons who continue to self-label as wayward is, IMO, a very non-productive way to go about healing and restoring oneself or one's marriage.

Doesn't mean everything ever said by any wayward is worthless and this thread here at TAM, though repetitive and sometimes a bit harsh, is ten times better FOR YOU to be participating in than a similar thread on SI where everyone would just be telling you how awesome it is and giving you undeserved kudo's and hugs as that's the only currency they have there {versus wisdom, accountability, productive criticism}.

On the other hand, it's really an exercise in futility for a self-labeling wayward to post here indefinitely without always feeling like they are less than and can NEVER be nice enough or post enough caveats without triggering some "mean and bitter" betrayed spouse who takes offense to something such wayward posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
To call it withdrawal doesn't seem to quite do justice to the amount of sheer turmoil this woman (and thousands like her) are in when they lose their AP.
This is an example. I'm not bothered personally by it one bit and after just 400 posts I'm certain it's innocuous and unintended, but certainly somewhere there's one betrayed spouse somewhere who could or would read the above sentence/phrasing and be all like "sheer turmoil....when they lose THEIR ap" ~~ OMG, whatever, suck it up buttercup" and carry on with "the AP is stolen merchandise, someone's else's husband or wife and not "THEIRS" to lose in the first place. Despite it being a completely accurate sentence and innocuous phrasing when posted by a former wayward spouse it just could sound a bit insensitive to some betrayed spouse. Then you may feel bad because as hard as you try for admiration and to be kind here and always coach and proof-read your wording and posts, you just always somehow seem to be keep getting knocked down, attacked and accused of being this horrible human being OR you end up NOT feeling bad and thinking it's "our" problem {"our" being the collective "bitter" betrayed spouse population here} so you then perpetuate the "us" waywards versus "them" the betrayeds board wars that pop up here and there OR you end up liking it as a form of self-punishment OR you just enjoy the attention and debates you can provocate on the internet {so pushing hurt buttons while feigning kindness is intentional}.

I don't pretend to know the answer. Before my wife ever thought about writing her own "guide to former wayward spouses" type article, she had read enough by others to realize it was a bad idea. Even on a private Christian forum it is/was a bad idea. She came to peace with the fact that some betrayed spouses are NEVER going to be OK with her or her opinions and that's was/is OK with her. It didn't mean such betrayed spouses were mean or bitter or horribly unforgiving persons. It didn't mean there was something wrong with "them" and it certainly wasn't her responsibility or obligation to convince "them" otherwise. She'd earned that consequence and didn't require or need to seek the approval or acceptance of every betrayed spouse in the world in order to feel OK about herself or her behavior. In other words, she's completely on team betrayed spouse 100%, and in real life, it's me that is much more kind and empathetic to the wayward spouses in the couples we coach.


I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #56 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:06 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
I can't find the other things that she posted, but I recall reading that her pain-this emptiness she felt without her OM- got so bad she would have to pull over to the side of the road when she was driving and cry and scream. She would lock herself in the bathroom at work and cry to her God to take her mental and emotional anguish away from her.
I could never stay married to a person who would feel that way while married to me. I just think I should be worth more then that. I guess I am selfish like that. I have to be the one, the only one.
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post #57 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:57 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I could never stay married to a person who would feel that way while married to me. I just think I should be worth more then that.

I guess I am selfish like that. I have to be the one, the only one.
Sigh ~~~ Again an exercise in speculation since you've never been faced with such dilemma nor do we even know what the original poster of those words on SI was feeling anguish over at the time. Such anguish might have been over being played for such a fool by a manipulative OM like the OP's here and she was self-punishing because the completely natural physiological feelings of withdrawal were making her think of and somehow miss OM despite otherwise feeling nothing but disgust for the man {i.e. - knowing OM was NOT the one}.

Also, for someone so staunchly independent, why express such co-dependent need to always and forever "be the one, the only one"? Seems a risky proposition for someone with your intimacy and FOO issues to base their self-worth simply on the feelings of their spouse.

My wife's batting 98.2% {about 10,800 out of about 11,000 days} that I was her "one, the only one" which is definitely better than my batting average over the same days where I sometimes mistakenly put my friends, my work, my family, our investments, etc. before her. I LIKE being my wife's "one and only" but I'm not entitled to such feeling, our entire relationship isn't/wasn't dependent on that sole "feeling" nor am I dependent on it personally {I'd be happy either way}.

Also ~~~ "FEELINGS" aren't fact. Just because my wife briefly felt the OM was her destiny and soulmate and some anguish over the end of her stupid affair, didn't make me actually worth less or NOT "the one", in fact. That would imply God made a mistake, which He did not.

People FEEL stuff all the time. We watch television shows and movies that allow us to escape ourselves and sometimes evoke emotions and feelings of "what if that was my life" all the time. I have to wonder how much thought policing you've actually done on your wife because she's certainly put herself before you many times whether you know it or not. Women fantasize about another alternative life all the time or, sometimes, they get neglected or FEEL neglected by their spouse {who maybe is too busy posting on SI, TAM and Reddit about his ex-girlfriend that cheated on him 20 years ago} that they FEEL they "selfishly are entitled to more" since their husband doesn't treat them as "their one and only" thereby rationalizing and justifying having an affair in the first place.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #58 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:11 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Sigh ~~~ Again an exercise in speculation since you've never been faced with such dilemma
Quit stalking me!

I am sure every person you give your advice to you have had exactly the same experience. Which is a stupid position to have anyway as we could go through exactly the same thing and your feelings about it would be very different then mine. What would work for you might not work for me.

I am not sure how you can coach couples when you are so strident in your opinions.

I have no intimacy and FOO issues, the only one who has issues here is you, and it's quite obvious that you are insecure in your position. That is why you must make it a point to critique mine so strongly.

Seriously I can't even state a opinion about myself without you writing a rebuttal.

"thou doth protest too much"

Seriously dude the personal stuff, it's getting weird and really reflects poorly on you.

Last edited by sokillme; 02-24-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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post #59 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Quit stalking me!

I am sure every person you give your advice to you have had exactly the same experience.
Ummmm ~ you posted 10 minutes after me today on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killme
I have no intimacy and FOO issues, the only one who has issues here is you, and it's quite obvious that you are insecure in your position. That is why you must make it a point to critique mine so strongly.
Please do not psychoanalyze me.

I'm only critiquing your outrageously speculative, ridiculously naive and irrational perspective here. I may or may not have issues, but one of them is NOT denying the reality that some couples happily recover from infidelity and thrive while others end up divorced due to infidelity and find happiness and contentment elsewhere or as single persons nor the absolute reality that some waywards repent and become useful, productive, worthwhile, important, loving human beings again and some waywards don't.

Also, I have no personal insecurity about my position or life whatsoever. Thy doth thinketh too highly of thyself. I've just experienced being a betrayed husband and I've worked with many betrayed spouses over the years to know what it feels like during the actual moments such person opens up on the internet to solicit advice and help from a group of persons they believe have all shared a similar experience. You haven't, so you're just speculating about what you'd do, need or want. You're not their peer. You've never been anywhere near "being in their shoes" and they have no idea or notice {other than my posts} that you have an agenda to promote divorce in all such circumstances {including the use of passive aggressive threads and attacks poking at their situational insecurities}

Fortunately, more and more persons are becoming aware that the internet is a dangerous place to seek out help and advice and they need to be very discerning about who they listen to. It's unfortunate but when the politics of agendas interfere with just the common curtesy of being honest and helpful to a hurting person in need, everyone loses out.

I WISH I could really understand WHY you do it? Why you feel the ends justify the means?

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen

Last edited by Quality; 02-24-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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post #60 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:34 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by Quality View Post
Please do not psychoanalyze me.
You started it. What a hypocrite you are, you one the least self aware persons on this board. You don't even state my position correctly, even though I have stated like 20 times to you.
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