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post #61 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 03:12 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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You started it. What a hypocrite you are, you one the least self aware persons on this board. You don't even state my position correctly, even though I have stated like 20 times to you.
I was being sardonic.

You complained about my "psychoanalyzing" you on another thread just the other day so I was making an equally ridiculous joke about your attempt at mindreading above.

Further, saying "I started it" is funny since you've been doing it to me and every recovered betrayed spouse since you got on this topic.

Then again, I'm not self-aware, so maybe I'm wrong.


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post #62 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Oh my gods, everyone, I just found the most amazing workbook! It deals with fear of loss/fear of abandonment and lack of self-love. It is PERFECT for wayward spouses because it encourages one to address all the "whys" as to why the WS cheated and why the WS needs "ego-kibbles" and validation from other people... WITHOUT being judgmental at ALL. (and without using degrading terms like "ego-kibbles"!) It mostly deals with when someone you love leaves you, but it can be seamlessly applied to situations wherein you must leave someone you love, such as breaking up with an AP to save your marriage.

It explains that the feelings of loss of a romantic partner (be it the BS or the AP or both) are perfectly natural and normal, and teaches you how to nurture your innermost needs, "pamper your wounds" without wallowing in despair, and be okay with you as you are.

It's called, "The Abandonment Recovery Workbook: Guidance through the 5 Stages of Healing from Abandonment, Heartbreak, and Loss"

I have just ordered it on Amazon and I'm working through the beginning pages right now. it's like an interactive diary. It's perfect and I love it. It looks like it'll be perfect for working through the feelings of loss I feel when my friends aren't there for me like I expect them to be, and great for working through the remnants of my shame with the OM. I'm probably going to share this with every WS I ever meet. I'll report back more later. OMG, I'm so happy I found this.


Last edited by EllaSuaveterre; 02-24-2017 at 04:58 PM.
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post #63 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 06:17 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Oh my gods, everyone, I just found the most amazing workbook! It deals with fear of loss/fear of abandonment and lack of self-love. It is PERFECT for wayward spouses because it encourages one to address all the "whys" as to why the WS cheated and why the WS needs "ego-kibbles" and validation from other people... WITHOUT being judgmental at ALL. (and without using degrading terms like "ego-kibbles"!) It mostly deals with when someone you love leaves you, but it can be seamlessly applied to situations wherein you must leave someone you love, such as breaking up with an AP to save your marriage.

It explains that the feelings of loss of a romantic partner (be it the BS or the AP or both) are perfectly natural and normal, and teaches you how to nurture your innermost needs, "pamper your wounds" without wallowing in despair, and be okay with you as you are.

It's called, "The Abandonment Recovery Workbook: Guidance through the 5 Stages of Healing from Abandonment, Heartbreak, and Loss"

I have just ordered it on Amazon and I'm working through the beginning pages right now. it's like an interactive diary. It's perfect and I love it. It looks like it'll be perfect for working through the feelings of loss I feel when my friends aren't there for me like I expect them to be, and great for working through the remnants of my shame with the OM. I'm probably going to share this with every WS I ever meet. I'll report back more later. OMG, I'm so happy I found this.
Seriously. I hope this is sarcasm. Your shoulder was so hurting you couldn't even type a couple days ago so there's no way you ordered and received this book yet. Plus, you're a couple of years out from your affair so any physiological withdrawal feelings you may be having over such loss at this point would be clearly intentional. This has to be a joke to provoke all us "mean and bitter" betrayed. I just can't fathom that after all that's been said on this thread, you MUST know how hurtful just the workbook title alone would be to a betrayed spouse.

I was one of the calmest most gentle empathetic betrayed husbands EVER and I'd have HATED that book and the thought of my wife needing/wanting to seriously work some bullcrap 5 stage self-help recovery book because OM abandoned her instead of a 200 stage book about marital recovery would just be too much.

In MOST homes, 5 stages to get over your friggin' boyfriend will rightfully end up being 5 bounces down the front steps to the front curb if that book isn't ripped up and thrown away immediately.

Not to mention, any book that breaks things down into seeming convenient steps like that is bunk. It appeals to our nature of liking checklists and checking things off once completed. it's like the Kubler-Ross 5 stages of grief bullcrap ~ it correctly identifies typical feelings after the loss of a loved one but putting them in any order like there is any natural or normal flow to it is a misnomer.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #64 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Seriously. I hope this is sarcasm. Your shoulder was so hurting you couldn't even type a couple days ago so there's no way you ordered and received this book yet. Plus, you're a couple of years out from your affair so any physiological withdrawal feelings you may be having over such loss at this point would be clearly intentional. This has to be a joke to provoke all us "mean and bitter" betrayed. I just can't fathom that after all that's been said on this thread, you MUST know how hurtful just the workbook title alone would be to a betrayed spouse.

I was one of the calmest most gentle empathetic betrayed husbands EVER and I'd have HATED that book and the thought of my wife needing/wanting to seriously work some bullcrap 5 stage self-help recovery book because OM abandoned her instead of a 200 stage book about marital recovery would just be too much.

In MOST homes, 5 stages to get over your friggin' boyfriend will rightfully end up being 5 bounces down the front steps to the front curb if that book isn't ripped up and thrown away immediately.

Not to mention, any book that breaks things down into seeming convenient steps like that is bunk. It appeals to our nature of liking checklists and checking things off once completed. it's like the Kubler-Ross 5 stages of grief bullcrap ~ it correctly identifies typical feelings after the loss of a loved one but putting them in any order like there is any natural or normal flow to it is a misnomer.
I am not bring sarcastic at all. I ordered the e-book version of the workbook as an instant download, and "fill it out" by alternating between typing and a speech to text program. It takes a little longer to type than usual, but since I was injured just under a week ago, I'm getting better and managing fine.

I ordered and received the e workbook a couple hours ago. And I know that the five stages of grief aren't natural, orderly, linear stages. They're just categories of different types of feelings, and you can feel different "stages" in different orders, or even be in two or the "stages" at once.

And you're right, right now I'm not using the workbook in reference to my OM. The person I'm trying to get over at present is a dear friend whom I had to remove from my life because he defended my abusive OM. It really stung to hear him say I deserved it, and I feel guilty and angry and hurt. When said former friend mentioned the OM's name I was suddenly feeling all that old fear, anger, and shame and I wanted a way to work through it (again) and also feel at peace about losing my former friend. Books can't work miracles, of course, but I imagine this might help me deal with the latest wave of flashbacks and bad feelings.

But I can see how this book would be useful to help other people deal with getting over the AP. If I had access to it 3 years ago when I actually DID miss the OM and was feeling like I'd die without him (emotionally and literally) I feel like this book would have helped me process.

I wish I could word this in a way that would be less triggering to you. This is just what I've found that might help me deal with co-dependent fears of abandonment, and learn to work through my triggers, bad feelings, fears, bad memories, etc without needing to seek outside validation.


Last edited by EllaSuaveterre; 02-24-2017 at 06:40 PM.
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post #65 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:22 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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OK, folks, not pointing fingers at any one individual person, but can we ensure that everyone is treated with respect, please?

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post #66 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:36 PM
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Cool Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

I have only personally known two prolific, cheaters in my lifetime: My first W and my RSXW!

If either of them ever want to seek out the sympathy of old Arb, I highly suggest that they each consult Webster's, looking somewhere between the entries "sh*t" and "syphillis!"

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post #67 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:53 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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If I had access to it 3 years ago when I actually DID miss the OM and was feeling like I'd die without him (emotionally and literally) I feel like this book would have helped me process.
I thought you hated you OM?
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post #68 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I thought you hated you OM?
I do, but before then there was a period of time (at least a few months, I think) where I was torn about having to lose him. On one hand, I thought that (while I wasn't willing to use the word "abusive" yet to describe him) he had been unfairly moody and would lash out at me for almost nothing, and I resented the fact that he seemed not to care about my emotions. On the other hand, he had promised me so much- money, wisdom, validation, support- and I (thought I) could have had it all if I'd been brave enough to go live with him. I believed him when he said that I'd never find anyone as wonderful as he was. I didn't understand why I felt so skittish and timid around him since he said he cared for me so much.

I hadn't yet realised that I felt scared around him because every other sentence out of his mouth was a threat and that he had only promised me all those wonderful things to get me to sleep with him in any and every degrading way he could dream up and be his live-in domestic servant. Once I realised THAT, I started hating his guts. But that was a slow realisation and took weeks of therapy and more weeks of pining after him and still more weeks of wrestling with my conflicting emotions.

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post #69 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:20 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I do, but before then there was a period of time (at least a few months, I think) where I was torn about having to lose him. On one hand, I thought that (while I wasn't willing to use the word "abusive" yet to describe him) he had been unfairly moody and would lash out at me for almost nothing, and I resented the fact that he seemed not to care about my emotions. On the other hand, he had promised me so much- money, wisdom, validation, support- and I (thought I) could have had it all if I'd been brave enough to go live with him. I believed him when he said that I'd never find anyone as wonderful as he was. I didn't understand why I felt so skittish and timid around him since he said he cared for me so much.

I hadn't yet realised that I felt scared around him because every other sentence out of his mouth was a threat and that he had only promised me all those wonderful things to get me to sleep with him in any and every degrading way he could dream up and be his live-in domestic servant. Once I realised THAT, I started hating his guts. But that was a slow realisation and took weeks of therapy and more weeks of pining after him and still more weeks of wrestling with my conflicting emotions.
I got to be honest your story doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How can you be in love and newly married to your husband whom you thought of a as prince charming and at the same time so infatuated with this man who sounds like an ogre. You really weren't into your husband that much right? I don't see how both are possible.

You always talk about seeing love like Disney and yet you just switched and dropped your husband like old news. Only thing that makes sense is that you just weren't into him like you say you were.
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post #70 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I got to be honest your story doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How can you be in love and newly married to your husband whom you thought of a as prince charming and at the same time so infatuated with this man who sounds like an ogre. You really weren't into your husband that much right? I don't see how both are possible.

You always talk about seeing love like Disney and yet you just switched and dropped your husband like old news. Only thing that makes sense is that you just weren't into him like you say you were.
It was three years in and the newlywed butterflies were dying for the first time. I didn't know that 1) that happens in all marriages; limerant feelings of infatuation diminish and 2) those feelings are supposed to be revived through continued acts of kindness and romantic gestures. I literally just thought, "Wow, I thought I was supposed to have butterflies every time I look at my husband forever. I never thought I could fall out of love with him... I guess this means we're through."

The OM found me at about that time and told me he could take me out of my home and my marriage before my husband divorced me and left me with nothing, so even if I wasn't compatable with him in every way (or any way) I figured I had better get off the boat as fast as I could while there was still a lifeboat waiting to take me away.


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post #71 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:37 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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It was three years in and the newlywed butterflies were dying for the first time. I didn't know that 1) that happens in all marriages; limerant feelings of infatuation diminish and 2) those feelings are supposed to be revived through continued acts of kindness and romantic gestures. I literally just thought, "Wow, I thought I was supposed to have butterflies every time I look at my husband forever. I never thought I could fall out of love with him... I guess this means we're through."

The OM found me at about that time and told me he could take me out of my home and my marriage before my husband divorced me and left me with nothing, so even if I wasn't compatable with him in every way (or any way) I figured I had better get off the boat as fast as I could while there was still a lifeboat waiting to take me away.
So at that point you weren't into him.
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post #72 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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So at that point you weren't into him.
No, I wasn't that into him, you're right. I still acknowledged that he was a wonderful provider and a caring man, but I didn't want to be married to someone for whom (I assumed) I would never feel passion again. Would that I were not so naive and rash and careless back then.


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post #73 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 11:26 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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No, I wasn't that into him, you're right. I still acknowledged that he was a wonderful provider and a caring man, but I didn't want to be married to someone for whom (I assumed) I would never feel passion again. Would that I were not so naive and rash and careless back then.
What if you would never feel passion again. Then what. You seem to be saying, well now you know you can still feel passion so you won't do it again.
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post #74 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 11:27 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Any man who would wish to break up a marriage, is no man at all. But, many women, I'm included...have dated ''bad guys''. I think it comes down not respecting ourselves enough, and the reasons for that are varying and different for every woman, so we attract men and are attracted to men who disrespect us, as well. Once you work on yourself, you no longer attract those types. Please keep working on yourself, Ella...so this never happens again. I hope the best for you and your husband, now.
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post #75 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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What if you would never feel passion again. Then what. You seem to be saying, well now you know you can still feel passion so you won't do it again.
To be perfectly honest, I would end it. In real life, you don't know if or when the passion can come back, so I would probably, realistically, try for several years- go to counselling and read more books and schedule sex and all those things. But if a few years passed and he made me feel nothing but a vague sadness that the love had died, I'd go. And if he stopped feeling passion for me, and we somehow knew he never would again, I'd hope he'd have the decency to let me go. Hopefully I could find someone else who actually liked me, but if not I could see myself living sitcom-style with a roommate or two or four. Maybe we would even stay legally married but both consensually agree to hook up with and/or date other people, opening our relationship up to others and remaining friends. But I am not so much a martyr that I would stay in a monogamous, eternal bond with anyone whom I did not love, and could never love again.

I adore my husband now, and have vacillated between adoring a lot and adoring slightly less than a lot for the vast majority of our marriage. I don't see that changing now that I know how to cultivate love. But if my efforts to cultivate it stopped working, well... The point of a long-term romantic relationship is, well, romance. And while I've learned that every moment can't be a Disney moment, if you never ever feel any sort of non-platonic feelings for your spouse, it's time to let yourselves go free and live an authentic life. A romantic partnership without love is a lie.

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