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post #76 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by *Deidre* View Post
Any man who would wish to break up a marriage, is no man at all. But, many women, I'm included...have dated ''bad guys''. I think it comes down not respecting ourselves enough, and the reasons for that are varying and different for every woman, so we attract men and are attracted to men who disrespect us, as well. Once you work on yourself, you no longer attract those types. Please keep working on yourself, Ella...so this never happens again. I hope the best for you and your husband, now.
I couldn't agree more. It all comes down to a lack of self-confidence and self-love.


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post #77 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 04:48 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I thought you hated you OM?
The two concepts are not mutually exclusive especially in the context of severe abuse by a person who has been granted or has seized religious dominion over a vulnerable person.

There was even a case in London recently of an atheist sect controlled by one Marxist Leninist man who used mind control techniques and rape to keep his female subjects under total subjugation for decades. They loved him and also hated him at the same time.

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http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk...-cheaters.html (Be afraid UK cheaters! CheaterVille has come to the UK!
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post #78 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:46 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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To be perfectly honest, I would end it. In real life, you don't know if or when the passion can come back, so I would probably, realistically, try for several years- go to counselling and read more books and schedule sex and all those things. But if a few years passed and he made me feel nothing but a vague sadness that the love had died, I'd go. And if he stopped feeling passion for me, and we somehow knew he never would again, I'd hope he'd have the decency to let me go. Hopefully I could find someone else who actually liked me, but if not I could see myself living sitcom-style with a roommate or two or four. Maybe we would even stay legally married but both consensually agree to hook up with and/or date other people, opening our relationship up to others and remaining friends. But I am not so much a martyr that I would stay in a monogamous, eternal bond with anyone whom I did not love, and could never love again.

I adore my husband now, and have vacillated between adoring a lot and adoring slightly less than a lot for the vast majority of our marriage. I don't see that changing now that I know how to cultivate love. But if my efforts to cultivate it stopped working, well... The point of a long-term romantic relationship is, well, romance. And while I've learned that every moment can't be a Disney moment, if you never ever feel any sort of non-platonic feelings for your spouse, it's time to let yourselves go free and live an authentic life. A romantic partnership without love is a lie.
Most of Disney's themes though have a princess always needing to be rescued by a prince, which your marriage has that aspect to it, in a way. And then when your husband was failing at that, someone else took his place as the prince, except he was a 'dark' prince, so that didn't work. I also want to have a romantic marriage, but at the same time, there are no fairy tales, and you need to really examine if your husband loves you as an equal partner, or if he views you as helpless, and needing to always be romanced and rescued. Because Disney movies typically are about finding ''the one'' and being rescued from a life of pain, by ''that one.'' That's not real life, no one should need to be rescued...but men do that a lot with women, and call it love.
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post #79 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Most of Disney's themes though have a princess always needing to be rescued by a prince, which your marriage has that aspect to it, in a way. And then when your husband was failing at that, someone else took his place as the prince, except he was a 'dark' prince, so that didn't work. I also want to have a romantic marriage, but at the same time, there are no fairy tales, and you need to really examine if your husband loves you as an equal partner, or if he views you as helpless, and needing to always be romanced and rescued. Because Disney movies typically are about finding ''the one'' and being rescued from a life of pain, by ''that one.'' That's not real life, no one should need to be rescued...but men do that a lot with women, and call it love.
Men do that a lot. Rescue women. KISA.

Just as women are protective of their brood, especially birth children, men want to be protective of their wife.

Not all men. Some men are innately self-centered, better put....selfish. Egotists.

Passionate men want to hug their wives, put their arms around them, grabbing and touching them. I know that this annoys some women, others love it.

This is the outward and visible form of men's passion.

Yes, they are visual, yes passionate men are touchy-feely. I put myself in that category. Not so much in public, though. My wife wants this in public, not so much in private ???

Men are instinctively dominant with respect to women. They like the feeling of a women needing them, a women enjoying their presence, their hugs and touch.

Hugging a women close gives them comfort. This is mine! My women.

I know, in today's Feminist society, men do not OWN their wife. She is free to do and say and act as she pleases...... I get that.

Controlling men suck. I own my body, get your hands off me you, you....dirty minded....husband.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................................

When women push men away, when women turn the tables on men and try to control them; try to "teach" them, lecture them, belittle them...the man's ego deflates and he pulls back.

He becomes ***** whipped. Hen-peckered.

He no longer is the KISA. He either finds new interests, he turns to porn, he cheats....he deflates to teenager mode. He lets her become the Mommy and he does "fun" stuff, rather then husband stuff.

Yes, yes, yes, men enjoy being KISA's. I have this character trait......call it a flaw if you like. And yes, I like to grab and hug my wife. And touch her stuff !!!!
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................

Women hate weak men. But many hate strong men, too. They admire them....from a distance. Let them get close....kick em in the balls.

Men hate [overly] dominant, aggressive women. Especially women who incessantly talk about: kicking men in the balls, cutting men's penis's off. Calling dominant men *******s and idiots or cavemen.

Have you heard this one from a women? "Just because a man has six inches, he thinks his **** doesn't stink".

If a man says he hates dominant women [to a dominant women] , she will say, "Tough, get over it!"

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #80 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

This is a more painful post than many of the others I’ve written, because of its personal nature. Last night and this morning have not been easy for me. As my husband slept peacefully four feet away on a nearby couch, I lay in bed against six pillows and a heating pad, in entirely too much emotional (and physical) pain to sleep. As I said, I’d been working through the workbook I mentioned (The Abandonment Recovery Workbook, still very much recommend it) and it brought back a WHOLE lot of ill feelings and even brought on a flashback at one point.
I found it very interesting to note that in the author’s examples, she describes both a betrayed spouse whose husband cheated on her and a wayward spouse who can’t seem to let go of her affair partner, both being in her group therapy sessions and using this workbook. Come to think of it, this would be an excellent book for betrayed spouses trying to keep to the 180 as well. After a brief introduction to the concept of abandonment and a description of who has found the book helpful, it described the five sets of feelings, in no particular order, that people go through when they perceive they have been betrayed or abandoned.

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The Five Stages of Abandonment

Shattering: The painful tear in your attachment, a stab wound to the heart. The sudden disconnection sends you into panic, devastation, shock, and bewilderment. You feel symbiotically attached to your lost Person—as if you couldn’t survive alone. You’re in crisis and feel as if you’d been severed from your Siamese twin and you were in the recovery room in pain and alone. You try to keep remnants of your fractured self together, but your whole sense of reality feels destroyed. One minute you succumb to the overwhelming despair, suicidal feelings, and sorrow. The next, you see glimmers of hope.

Withdrawal: Love withdrawal is just like heroin withdrawal—each involves intense yearning for the object of desire, and this craving is mediated by opioids within your body. You feel a painful aching, longing, needing a love fix and can’t get one. You feel strung out. Your mind incessantly waits for your lost love to call or return. You’re plagued with separation anxiety—an expectant, urgent feeling of heightened vulnerability. Physical components of withdrawal from love are the same as they are for withdrawal from heroin. You’re in withdrawal from your endogenous opiates as well as suffused with fight-or-flight stress hormones. Your withdrawal symptoms include wasting, weight loss, wakefulness.

Internalizing: You begin to turn your rage over being rejected against yourself, which accounts for the intense depression that accompanies abandonment. You idealize your lost Person at your own expense, indicting yourself for losing the most important person in your life. You internalize the rejection, interpreting the dismissal as evidence of your alleged personal unworthiness. Internalizing is the most critical stage, when your wound can become infected, scarring your self-image. You inculcate a narcissistic injury. Your self-doubt has the power to implant an invisible drain deep within the self that insidiously leaches self-esteem from within. You have grave doubts about your ability to hold someone’s love and blame yourself for the loss. Old feelings of insecurity merge into your new wound, creating lingering insecurity. Without recovery, this feeling can interfere in future relationships.

Rage: You attempt to reverse the rejection, expressing rage over being left. You are restless to get your life back in order and riddled with low frustration tolerance, your anger spurting out of control. You resent being thrust into aloneness against your will. You regress into fantasies of revenge and retaliation. Your aggressive energy is like a pressure cooker. You boil over easily, sometimes spewing anger onto innocent bystanders (like your friends when they fail to understand what you’re going through). Many of you who have difficulty with assertiveness tend to invert your rage into an agitated depression.

Lifting: Life begins to distract you, lifting you back into it. You experience intervals of peace and confidence. Abandonment’s lessons are learned, and you get ready to live again. Without recovery, some of you make the mistake of lifting above your feelings, losing touch with your emotional center, becoming more isolated than before.

You swirl through the stages within an hour, a day, a year, cycles in cycles, and you emerge out the end of its funnel-shaped cloud a changed person. As you learn how to handle the feelings at each stage of this overwhelming process, this transformation lifts you to greater life and love.
After I had read what each of the stages were, the book asked me to think about the relationship(s) in my life over which I had felt these feelings. It asked me to journal, about how each of these stages felt when I left behind or lost each of these people. I won’t go into detail about everything I wrote last night; that would take a whole page. Or two. But I wrote about my friend, who had insulted my husband and said I deserved the OM’s abuse. I wrote about the shock I felt, the longing for comfort, the anger, the self-loathing, the relief. I wrote it all down, spilling out paragraphs. I'm glad my shoulder is healed enough that I can type without worsening it. I wrote about another male friend, whose friendship I’d had to give up because it was a codependent friendship and- though there was no deception involved and my husband knew of every conversation- I depended on him more than was healthy, and unknowingly made my husband feel left out in the cold. I wrote about feeling all those things for him, too. I ALMOST wrote about the OM the same way, but I couldn’t fill out any other categories except “Internalizing” and “Rage”. I hate myself for trusting him. I hate him for doing what he did to his daughter, for trying to do it to me. I hate myself, I hate him, I hate myself, I hate him… I finally had to close the laptop and give up for the night because I wasn’t getting anywhere.

The worst part about all this is that my husband forgives me for everything and his forgiveness doesn’t bring me any relief. He knows about EVERYTHING I’ve ever said to EVERYONE, and he forgives me for the OM and for my codependent friendship, and tells me I haven’t done anything wrong otherwise. We’ve talked about it so much, and I’ve apologized so much, and I’ve read all the infidelity books- a few even with him. But I still feel “The Swirl” as the book calls it, and so I’m here writing and crying and remembering, hoping I can stop hating myself by the time I reach the end of this workbook.
I finally curled up next to my husband and held him tight. I could feel him smile even in the dark.

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post #81 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:24 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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This is a more painful post than many of the others I’ve written, because of its personal nature. Last night and this morning have not been easy for me. As my husband slept peacefully four feet away on a nearby couch, I lay in bed against six pillows and a heating pad, in entirely too much emotional (and physical) pain to sleep. As I said, I’d been working through the workbook I mentioned (The Abandonment Recovery Workbook, still very much recommend it) and it brought back a WHOLE lot of ill feelings and even brought on a flashback at one point.
I found it very interesting to note that in the author’s examples, she describes both a betrayed spouse whose husband cheated on her and a wayward spouse who can’t seem to let go of her affair partner, both being in her group therapy sessions and using this workbook. Come to think of it, this would be an excellent book for betrayed spouses trying to keep to the 180 as well. After a brief introduction to the concept of abandonment and a description of who has found the book helpful, it described the five sets of feelings, in no particular order, that people go through when they perceive they have been betrayed or abandoned.



After I had read what each of the stages were, the book asked me to think about the relationship(s) in my life over which I had felt these feelings. It asked me to journal, about how each of these stages felt when I left behind or lost each of these people. I won’t go into detail about everything I wrote last night; that would take a whole page. Or two. But I wrote about my friend, who had insulted my husband and said I deserved the OM’s abuse. I wrote about the shock I felt, the longing for comfort, the anger, the self-loathing, the relief. I wrote it all down, spilling out paragraphs. I'm glad my shoulder is healed enough that I can type without worsening it. I wrote about another male friend, whose friendship I’d had to give up because it was a codependent friendship and- though there was no deception involved and my husband knew of every conversation- I depended on him more than was healthy, and unknowingly made my husband feel left out in the cold. I wrote about feeling all those things for him, too. I ALMOST wrote about the OM the same way, but I couldn’t fill out any other categories except “Internalizing” and “Rage”. I hate myself for trusting him. I hate him for doing what he did to his daughter, for trying to do it to me. I hate myself, I hate him, I hate myself, I hate him… I finally had to close the laptop and give up for the night because I wasn’t getting anywhere.

The worst part about all this is that my husband forgives me for everything and his forgiveness doesn’t bring me any relief. He knows about EVERYTHING I’ve ever said to EVERYONE, and he forgives me for the OM and for my codependent friendship, and tells me I haven’t done anything wrong otherwise. We’ve talked about it so much, and I’ve apologized so much, and I’ve read all the infidelity books- a few even with him. But I still feel “The Swirl” as the book calls it, and so I’m here writing and crying and remembering, hoping I can stop hating myself by the time I reach the end of this workbook.
I finally curled up next to my husband and held him tight. I could feel him smile even in the dark.
Did your husband ever go through any pain over this or was he always in forgive you mode?
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post #82 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Men do that a lot. Rescue women. KISA.

Just as women are protective of their brood, especially birth children, men want to be protective of their wife.

Not all men. Some men are innately self-centered, better put....selfish. Egotists.

Passionate men want to hug their wives, put their arms around them, grabbing and touching them. I know that this annoys some women, others love it.

This is the outward and visible form of men's passion.

Yes, they are visual, yes passionate men are touchy-feely. I put myself in that category. Not so much in public, though. My wife wants this in public, not so much in private ???

Men are instinctively dominant with respect to women. They like the feeling of a women needing them, a women enjoying their presence, their hugs and touch.

Hugging a women close gives them comfort. This is mine! My women.

I know, in today's Feminist society, men do not OWN their wife. She is free to do and say and act as she pleases...... I get that.

Controlling men suck. I own my body, get your hands off me you, you....dirty minded....husband.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................................

When women push men away, when women turn the tables on men and try to control them; try to "teach" them, lecture them, belittle them...the man's ego deflates and he pulls back.

He becomes ***** whipped. Hen-peckered.

He no longer is the KISA. He either finds new interests, he turns to porn, he cheats....he deflates to teenager mode. He lets her become the Mommy and he does "fun" stuff, rather then husband stuff.

Yes, yes, yes, men enjoy being KISA's. I have this character trait......call it a flaw if you like. And yes, I like to grab and hug my wife. And touch her stuff !!!!
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................

Women hate weak men. But many hate strong men, too. They admire them....from a distance. Let them get close....kick em in the balls.

Men hate [overly] dominant, aggressive women. Especially women who incessantly talk about: kicking men in the balls, cutting men's penis's off. Calling dominant men *******s and idiots or cavemen.

Have you heard this one from a women? "Just because a man has six inches, he thinks his **** doesn't stink".

If a man says he hates dominant women [to a dominant women] , she will say, "Tough, get over it!"
Men who ''rescue'' women they barely know, aren't necessarily being selfless. Sometimes, they like women who are lost and vulnerable, so they can control them. My advice to my guy friends who are single...DON'T rescue women from debt, and their own drama, and for my single women friends...don't seek to have a guy rescue you.
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post #83 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Did your husband ever go through any pain over this or was he always in forgive you mode?
He did go through pain, but very quietly. He cried once, did not sleep in our apartment whilst I was in the hospital and at first refused to forgive me. He did forgive me, though, after a few weeks, after he saw I was in therapy and working through it. I could probably have seen his pain more clearly if I wasn't so busy at the time with my own. I'm focusing a lot on my pain now, too, but I also keep an eye out for his. If he were to have any triggers nowadays, I'm sure I'd notice and respond.

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post #84 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

@Affaircare, I don't know whether you accept PMs but I couldn't find the button to send one. I noticed you (and several others, but that's beside the point) said that the advice I'd give to other wayward spouses is so self-focused that you barely know where to begin to open up a conversation with me about it. Well, I want to start (or, well, continue) said conversation with you because I really like your website and the advice you give. For example, that, "I don't know who to choose/I don't know what to do" means that your heart knows what's right, but you don't want to act because you'll lose someone...very, very wise.

...Anyway, rambling. I agree that my advice for waywards is pretty much 100% focused on the WS/DS and I don't say much- if anything- about the BS/LS at all. This is because:

1. Everyone ELSE on marriage forums everywhere is mostly focused on the Betrayed Spouse so the WS doesn't need my help or advice on how to help their BS when they have so many other great resources to which to turn for that. (Like yours!)

2. Wayward spouses are broken people, generally. I actually agree with @sokillme to a degree on that. They're usually not actually happy that they blew up their marriage. I don't think I've ever seen a WS who honestly delights in their BS's misery and anguish. Usually, on D-day and after, the WS feels lousy. They're probably not feeling bad for the "right" reasons. They're probably feeling regret rather than remorse. But they're still, usually, not very happy. These are people that have such low self-esteem and such miserable psyches that they are willing to ruin every aspect of their lives for a dopamine hit and an ego boost. Therefore, teaching them how to meet their own needs, how to practice healthy, nondestructive self-care, and how to forgive themselves and not hate themselves so much, is vital. If they can meet the needs that led them to cheat in the first place before they get desperate and put their morals aside, they'll be less likely to need an ego boost- another affair- in the future. That's why I like that abandonment self-help workbook so much. The premise thereof is that you don't need another person (like an affair partner) to make you happy/safe/loved/important/whatever.

I'm not very good at self-care yet, and I'm a complete novice at not hating myself. I'm hardly qualified to be any kind of counselor to anyone. But it seems like wayward self-care and self-forgiveness (and thereby filling one's own bottomless emotional bucket so one is no longer so tempted to commit adultery) has been abandoned and laughed at by infidelity experts, and it just baffles me utterly. So I feel the need to step in where no one else has or will.

You've been in this particular rodeo a long time. Surely I can't be the first one to think of this. It's not that I don't care about the betrayed spouses of the world; that's not it at all. It's just that the whole infidelity-recovery community remains focused on the BS. With me being the lone voice saying "Love yourself!" in a crowd of people saying "Forget yourself and help your spouse!" it's not like WSes are going to somehow miss the memo that their BS is hurting badly and that they need to try to give them security, comfort, and answers. With so many great people reminding them of it, they can't miss it, surely.


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post #85 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 01:05 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Very well. I do see what you're saying about being hydrated during a marathon when most are only just getting on the treadmill. Perhaps too much focus on the wayward spouse might make him think he (or she) has permission to put their wants above their spouse's needs, and that's a problem. I have tried to address this tastefully, without saying to the wayward spouse, "You can't have healing yet" because the wayward spouse probably is hurt to some degree or another by their action, even if that hurt really only amounts to longing for their AP. Would it make my words softer for the betrayed if I wrote an article, for them, too? I really see no need for that as so many authors have stepped in on their behalf and offered them much better help than I can provide.






No, no, you misunderstand me. I'm sorry; I should have been clearer. Let me try again.

I do very much understand how betrayed spouses are, in the first months, unable to look at their wayward spouses with empathy. That even seeing their face brings back gut-wrenching panic, nausea, terror, and grief. But as you said, it was different for me.

When I first went into hospital, it was very much "all about me" from the get-go. My weeping mother, hugging me and telling me, "Don't come out before you're better." At first I was more than willing to call a spade a spade, albeit in a very selfish way. I had an affair, and I'm moving out to be with my lover. Let me go so I can be with him. My husband will be better off divorced. But as I started to talk to these doctors about why I was starving myself, changing my hairstyle, and having constant panic attacks, they immediately rushed in with sympathy and compassion. "Don't you understand that he did this to you? He's not your lover, he's your abuser. We're here to help you." They all had a battered woman narrative, and to them I fit that role.

The doctors helped me see who my OM really was. When people came home and accused me- correctly- of cheating on my husband- I still literally broke down into inconsolable wailing, even months later. The shame I felt was almost unbearable. It would be another two years, nearly, before I could even begin to confront that shame, let alone face up to the consequences of my actions and try to make amends.

My experience of being a victim of abuse and a wayward spouse made me wonder how much these other wayward spouses must suffer because no one cared for them in the same way that a small legion of doctors and psychologists cared for me. True, they were never abused, but they too must hurt. They too must feel assailed by guilt and shame and self-loathing, perhaps even more than me because they never had parts of their affair that were non-consensual. So, as there was no literature for them that didn't further fan the fires of their shame, I wrote my own.

Of course I can see how it might hurt the betrayed spouse to have to see someone having sympathy for their abusers. But I also remember the massive outpouring of support and help I got for my own affair, and feel pangs of sympathy that no such help is offered to other wayward spouses.
Refering to what I bolded above, you are assuming that the Wayward actually has any misgivings for what they have done. They have 'destroyed' their BS and should look outwards first before looking inwards. Many WS have no guilt only self pity for themselves for getting caught and having to give up the cake they were enjoying eating. A WS would not engage in infidelity if they had any inkling what it does to their partner.

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post #86 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Refering to what I bolded above, you are assuming that the Wayward actually has any misgivings for what they have done. They have 'destroyed' their BS and should look outwards first before looking inwards. Many WS have no guilt only self pity for themselves for getting caught and having to give up the cake they were enjoying eating. A WS would not engage in infidelity if they had any inkling what it does to their partner.
I appreciate your explaining the pushback I've been getting so succinctly, but I don't see how this could be true, except for the last sentence. After the WS remains out-of-contact with their affair partner for a few weeks or a few months, after the WS gets over their paramour and gets out of "the affair fog", the world begins falling down around them. Not to the degree that the BS's world has crumbled, but even so.

They discover their affair partner has flaws after all and/or that "happily ever after" with their affair partner might not have been the paradise they assumed it would be.

They may discover that they still have feelings for their spouse, but even if they don't, they still see their spouse weeping hysterically, raging, shaking, throwing up, having panic attacks, and just generally being traumatized. I don't know of anyone who could see that and not be moved to compassion and feel wracked with guilt. Even if they eventually decide to divorce the BS they'll probably still feel horrible about causing so much damage to a person they used to love, and wish they would have gone about leaving them in a much gentler way.

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post #87 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 02:34 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
@Affaircare, I don't know whether you accept PMs but I couldn't find the button to send one. I noticed you (and several others, but that's beside the point) said that the advice I'd give to other wayward spouses is so self-focused that you barely know where to begin to open up a conversation with me about it. Well, I want to start (or, well, continue) said conversation with you because I really like your website and the advice you give. For example, that, "I don't know who to choose/I don't know what to do" means that your heart knows what's right, but you don't want to act because you'll lose someone...very, very wise.
@EllaSuaveterre, I would be happy to converse with you, but I wanted you to know that I didn't see this until rather late this evening, and I have a cold so I wanted to go to bed early. I'll reply in the morning, okay? And I'm tickled you both read and liked my thoughts!

P.S. I have it set so that I can only receive PMs from people who are my contacts or friends or whatever. I do not write privately with people as a general rule because if it's honest, it can be said in public and someone could learn from it. And I especially do not PM with men, because that's one way I protect my marriage. I write everything right out in public so my Dear Hubby could see anything he'd ever want to see that I write.

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Last edited by Affaircare; 02-27-2017 at 02:40 AM.
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post #88 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

As an afterthought, you can get the same message across two different ways, and one goes down much more easily than the other.

Let's say a wayward spouse is currently pitying themselves because they just can't take their betrayed spouse's crying and pained expressions anymore- it makes them feel too guilty and like a bad person. Said WS posts as much on a marriage forum like this one.

I might say to them, "YOU'RE upset?! Too bad. You don't get to be upset now. Your spouse probably DOES think you're a bad person! YOU ruined your spouse's life and now YOU have to pay for it, end of story."

That's the truth of the matter, but if they're already feeling low and self-pitying, a boot-camp style lecture isn't going to make them feel any better, and they need to feel better in order to summon the courage to get things done.

I could also say, "I know. It is a truly awful thing to see someone you love and live with so closely being in such pain. The guilt must be unbearable at times. I know it's hard, but your spouse needs you to be brave and strong for them right now, because they can't be. And I know it probably feels like you can't be strong either. But you need to pull yourself together for a bit, and you absolutely can, I promise. Just take ten minutes to take deep breaths and compose yourself, and then go in the living room and talk to your partner. Tell them you feel for them, and that you want them to know that you'll do anything you can to help heal them. Then, ask what you can do. If they tell you something, write it in a notebook to remember later. And then, go take an hour to relax and decompress. I promise, it sounds daunting, but it's not so bad."

That- empathizing with the wayward's pain and discomfort, reminding them of their responsibility, talking them through what to so, and encouraging them to reward themselves when the task is done- will give them courage and strength. They'll feel less overwhelmed and less guilty, and that will help them be who their spouse needs them to be.

Both messages say that they have to comfort their spouse whether they feel up to it or not, but IMO, the second message is more encouraging.


Last edited by EllaSuaveterre; 02-27-2017 at 04:12 AM.
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post #89 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 04:34 AM
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Cool Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

As a loving spouse, my job is never to rescue, control, or dominate my spousal cohort; nor allow the same to occur to me by them!

It is to love, respect, honor, and cherish each other above all, over all others ~ bar none!

If that part of the marriage vows or contract cannot be held in strict compliance and obeyance, then I'd just rather bask in the happiness of being single!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #90 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 02:30 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
As an afterthought, you can get the same message across two different ways, and one goes down much more easily than the other.

Let's say a wayward spouse is currently pitying themselves because they just can't take their betrayed spouse's crying and pained expressions anymore- it makes them feel too guilty and like a bad person. Said WS posts as much on a marriage forum like this one.

I might say to them, "YOU'RE upset?! Too bad. You don't get to be upset now. Your spouse probably DOES think you're a bad person! YOU ruined your spouse's life and now YOU have to pay for it, end of story."

That's the truth of the matter, but if they're already feeling low and self-pitying, a boot-camp style lecture isn't going to make them feel any better, and they need to feel better in order to summon the courage to get things done.

I could also say, "I know. It is a truly awful thing to see someone you love and live with so closely being in such pain. The guilt must be unbearable at times. I know it's hard, but your spouse needs you to be brave and strong for them right now, because they can't be. And I know it probably feels like you can't be strong either. But you need to pull yourself together for a bit, and you absolutely can, I promise. Just take ten minutes to take deep breaths and compose yourself, and then go in the living room and talk to your partner. Tell them you feel for them, and that you want them to know that you'll do anything you can to help heal them. Then, ask what you can do. If they tell you something, write it in a notebook to remember later. And then, go take an hour to relax and decompress. I promise, it sounds daunting, but it's not so bad."

That- empathizing with the wayward's pain and discomfort, reminding them of their responsibility, talking them through what to so, and encouraging them to reward themselves when the task is done- will give them courage and strength. They'll feel less overwhelmed and less guilty, and that will help them be who their spouse needs them to be.

Both messages say that they have to comfort their spouse whether they feel up to it or not, but IMO, the second message is more encouraging.
I'm sorry Ella but you really have no concept that their truly are selfish evil people out there who just don't care about there SO. What do you say about the people who kill their SO. Did they do it because they were felling like a bad person? There really are. It's hard to give advice when you basically think the best of people some of who are the worst.

Here's the thing, you are actions. You should be judged on your actions. What else do you think we should judge people on if not their actions?
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What advice would you give to a wayward/betrayed spouse and why? EllaSuaveterre Coping with Infidelity 202 02-20-2017 01:34 AM

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