Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

User Tag List

 180Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #106 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,980
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Affaircare View Post
Good heavens, @sokillme ! Did you ever get the message! YES this!!

See the real turning point, the TRUE TURNING, is when you look up, the scales fall from your eyes, and you literally SEE the pain in your spouse's face. There are stains from where they've been crying. There are wrinkles from all the worrying. There are bags from night after night of sleepless hell. Something within you shifts when you look at what you have done and SEE IT, and you stop blaming and justifying and saying "Yeah but..." and with defenses down the place in you sees the full hurt in them and you know that YOU DID THAT to another human being!

That is the precipice! But it's also turning for basing everything on "self" and turning your eyes to others. Not 100% trusting or 100% selflessly--that's unhealthy too--but rather, basing love on getting to know the person who took another risk, and basing love on a decision to BE loving (not be loved), and basing love on acting to protect them...even if that means protecting them from you!
It's not like you didn't make it plain.

That has kind of been the point with this whole thread hasn't it in a way. It's were people take offense. I think what you said about WS and the self centered universe it very true. From your writing here I think you got it at some point and changed. From our last discussion and this one this quote right here would make me think that R with you would be possible, and since your husband had it in him I would think you well be OK. This is the kind of thinking that is needed. Sadly I think most don't GET it.

sokillme is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #107 of 243 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Ella, marriage is giving your life to the person. It's saying I am now living for you. Now of course you should know I don't advice that once you have been abused, but in a normal everyday marital relationship this is what is needed. Your spouse should do the same. Again romance is great it's like desert, but the meat and potatoes is the giving. The forcing yourself with your actions to think, how is this affecting my other half. When you do that you experience a much greater level of intimacy. You both become dependent on each other. This is a different kind of love then you see in romance novels and Disney. It is the kind that make you inseparable. It is the warm blanket kind of love. The concrete kind.

Think about what you just wrote. You had an affair and yet you forget about his side of the story? I think the fact that your husband has taken this so well in the long run has be detrimental to your learning about yourself. That is not a judgement on him but it is the dynamic that you find yourself in. You write a lot about you. This post is about WS as it relates to you.

Now write about the BS, I want you to put yourself in that situation, your a writing major, you should be able to do that. How would you feel if your husband were to do that to you. What healing would you need then.
Well, if he were to cheat on me, my reaction would be VASTLY different than how he must have felt or how he must feel. Mostly because his first instinct when in emotional turmoil is not suicide. I don't know whether I would want healing from the very person who hurt me. Hypocritically, I don't know that I'm the sort to offer reconciliation. Not because Mr. Suaveterre would be a bad person, but because with as many anxiety issues as I have now, with him being utterly devoted to me, I would be far, far too afraid to try once he'd cheated.

As to him... He was at work when he got the call from my mother that she was taking me to the mental hospital, being that it was 9:30 in the morning. That must have terrified him, being trapped at work and not having any idea what had happened. The few days leading up to my hospitalization, he knew little-to-nothing about OM, but he did know I was stressed out. I told him the night before that if I knew where to find heroin, I'd start doing heroin because it was probably the only thing strong enough to calm my nerves. So that was all the context he had. Had I actually found heroin and overdosed? Were they sure I was alive? Did I finally slit my wrists like I always halfheartedly joked about when I was feeling low? Mr. Suaveterre is NOT the kind of person to sit and worry over anything he can't solve using binary, but I imagine he must have had a hard time putting it from his mind.

It would be Tuesday before the hospital was open to visitors, and he was there at the first opportunity. I had decided he needed to know the truth, and I told him, "I cheated on you. I'm in love with someone else." and I handed him the pieces of loose printer paper out of which I had made a makeshift journal during my 4 days at the hospital. He read everything. I wrote that I was upset that my marriage was ending, but that I loved OM, and that was the way it was. A single tear fell down his face. Every other woman he'd ever loved had broken up with him, and now this one, too. Even though I promised to heal him from all his other relationships, and until that day, he thought I had. Now he had more empirical evidence that he just wasn't good enough- rich enough, tall enough, handsome enough- to be loved forever. And why the hell was it THAT guy?? He hadn't heard THAT name in months and now his wife's in love with him?!

I asked him why he was crying. He replied, "Why do you think?" I said, "I'm not leaving with (OM'S name). The plane would have left Sunday. I'm staying with you. I'm sorry, about all of it. I wish our marriage wasn't like this." Most likely he had been 100% unaware our marriage was "like this" because it was only desolate, loveless, and terrible from my vantage point. I asked him then if he would forgive me. He said "Maybe". We sat in silence for a little while. Then, he put his arms around me and held me and said, "I hope you get better" and left. It must have taken a lot of strength to hug me then. Or maybe it didn't. Our secondary love languages are both physical touch. Maybe he was just craving something familiar, something that used to be safe. Maybe he just didn't want to make a scene in a public setting such as the foyer of the local nuthouse.

He didn't stay in the apartment for the entire week. He slept at my parents', which couldn't have been too terribly much better, because he left his home country of England to be with me. Literally everything in his world, thus, was connected to me. He probably just wanted to be in England, in his village, in the pub, at age 25 again, with no Ella at all, ever. Skip to an alternate universe where we never met and he never had to get his hopes up and have them crushed in the most unexpected and horrifying way imaginable. He might or might not have been considering buying his own plane ticket and going the hell home.


A couple weeks passed, and his wife was home, and having nightmares about EVERYTHING almost every night, and constant panic attacks, and would occasionally just stop everything she was doing and stare into the middle distance until someone physically grabbed her shoulders and moved her along. Between this and the cheating, he must have been convinced I had finally gone truly, insanely crazy. He probably also thought that during our first six months of marriage when I couldn't stop sobbing and was summarily diagnosed with major depression, but this was different. Worse. But he's a programmer. A fixer. He takes broken things and makes them work again. It was just what he did. And what he was going to do.

BRB, I have to go hug the living daylights out of my husband.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #108 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Today, I talked to my husband about the affair. I was the one who brought it up. I said, "Darling... I was just thinking about how brave you are. It took a lot of courage, I'm sure, to take me back and continue to love me and to support BOTH of us...during... you know... what happened in 2014. I admire your bravery." He sat down beside me on the bed, pinned me down beneath his body and hugged me tight. He then replied simply, "It's in the past." I wasn't sure if it was an I don't want to think about this sort of reply or if it was an is she having a flashback sort of reply. I went on, "I know it's in the past, but I just want you to know that I still think about it... about what happened... what I did... about you. I wish I had been more emotionally present with you back then so I could have helped you." Again he replied, "It's okay; it's in the past."

Ehh. Something tells me if I tried to focus any more on his pain (or lack thereof) he'd be less than thrilled.

On the upside, though, Mr. Suaveterre ran out of his favourite breakfast smoothie. He was sleeping in my spare bed and said he was too tired to get up and go to the store, so I made him a smoothie of my own recipe. It was actually probably healthier and more nourishing than the store-bought ones. He thanked me. <3

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
 
post #109 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 03:55 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Well, if he were to cheat on me, my reaction would be VASTLY different than how he must have felt or how he must feel. Mostly because his first instinct when in emotional turmoil is not suicide. I don't know whether I would want healing from the very person who hurt me. Hypocritically, I don't know that I'm the sort to offer reconciliation. Not because Mr. Suaveterre would be a bad person, but because with as many anxiety issues as I have now, with him being utterly devoted to me, I would be far, far too afraid to try once he'd cheated.

As to him... He was at work when he got the call from my mother that she was taking me to the mental hospital, being that it was 9:30 in the morning. That must have terrified him, being trapped at work and not having any idea what had happened. The few days leading up to my hospitalization, he knew little-to-nothing about OM, but he did know I was stressed out. I told him the night before that if I knew where to find heroin, I'd start doing heroin because it was probably the only thing strong enough to calm my nerves. So that was all the context he had. Had I actually found heroin and overdosed? Were they sure I was alive? Did I finally slit my wrists like I always halfheartedly joked about when I was feeling low? Mr. Suaveterre is NOT the kind of person to sit and worry over anything he can't solve using binary, but I imagine he must have had a hard time putting it from his mind.

It would be Tuesday before the hospital was open to visitors, and he was there at the first opportunity. I had decided he needed to know the truth, and I told him, "I cheated on you. I'm in love with someone else." and I handed him the pieces of loose printer paper out of which I had made a makeshift journal during my 4 days at the hospital. He read everything. I wrote that I was upset that my marriage was ending, but that I loved OM, and that was the way it was. A single tear fell down his face. Every other woman he'd ever loved had broken up with him, and now this one, too. Even though I promised to heal him from all his other relationships, and until that day, he thought I had. Now he had more empirical evidence that he just wasn't good enough- rich enough, tall enough, handsome enough- to be loved forever. And why the hell was it THAT guy?? He hadn't heard THAT name in months and now his wife's in love with him?!

I asked him why he was crying. He replied, "Why do you think?" I said, "I'm not leaving with (OM'S name). The plane would have left Sunday. I'm staying with you. I'm sorry, about all of it. I wish our marriage wasn't like this." Most likely he had been 100% unaware our marriage was "like this" because it was only desolate, loveless, and terrible from my vantage point. I asked him then if he would forgive me. He said "Maybe". We sat in silence for a little while. Then, he put his arms around me and held me and said, "I hope you get better" and left. It must have taken a lot of strength to hug me then. Or maybe it didn't. Our secondary love languages are both physical touch. Maybe he was just craving something familiar, something that used to be safe. Maybe he just didn't want to make a scene in a public setting such as the foyer of the local nuthouse.

He didn't stay in the apartment for the entire week. He slept at my parents', which couldn't have been too terribly much better, because he left his home country of England to be with me. Literally everything in his world, thus, was connected to me. He probably just wanted to be in England, in his village, in the pub, at age 25 again, with no Ella at all, ever. Skip to an alternate universe where we never met and he never had to get his hopes up and have them crushed in the most unexpected and horrifying way imaginable. He might or might not have been considering buying his own plane ticket and going the hell home.


A couple weeks passed, and his wife was home, and having nightmares about EVERYTHING almost every night, and constant panic attacks, and would occasionally just stop everything she was doing and stare into the middle distance until someone physically grabbed her shoulders and moved her along. Between this and the cheating, he must have been convinced I had finally gone truly, insanely crazy. He probably also thought that during our first six months of marriage when I couldn't stop sobbing and was summarily diagnosed with major depression, but this was different. Worse. But he's a programmer. A fixer. He takes broken things and makes them work again. It was just what he did. And what he was going to do.

BRB, I have to go hug the living daylights out of my husband.
It sounds like the bolded is when he became a man, Ella. He saw outside of his own pain to that of someone more vulnerable than himself.

And you, even if unintentionally, gave him that opportunity. As he matures, and despite the pain it brought to both of you, he may be thankful to you.

And you continue to offer him opportunities to grow. Every time you try to initiate deep conversations, ask him questions about his feelings, share your own heartfelt sorrows and dreams, you model communication and connection to him.

He is a lucky man to be with you, Ella. Not every woman can offer him the genuineness and stimulation that you can.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #110 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:06 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Today, I talked to my husband about the affair. I was the one who brought it up. I said, "Darling... I was just thinking about how brave you are. It took a lot of courage, I'm sure, to take me back and continue to love me and to support BOTH of us...during... you know... what happened in 2014. I admire your bravery." He sat down beside me on the bed, pinned me down beneath his body and hugged me tight. He then replied simply, "It's in the past." I wasn't sure if it was an I don't want to think about this sort of reply or if it was an is she having a flashback sort of reply. I went on, "I know it's in the past, but I just want you to know that I still think about it... about what happened... what I did... about you. I wish I had been more emotionally present with you back then so I could have helped you." Again he replied, "It's okay; it's in the past."

Ehh. Something tells me if I tried to focus any more on his pain (or lack thereof) he'd be less than thrilled.

On the upside, though, Mr. Suaveterre ran out of his favourite breakfast smoothie. He was sleeping in my spare bed and said he was too tired to get up and go to the store, so I made him a smoothie of my own recipe. It was actually probably healthier and more nourishing than the store-bought ones. He thanked me. <3
Have you ever said to him, "I need you to talk about it. I need to hear your heart speak to me about it. Even if it is painful to me, I want to know you--all of you."

What happened to you was obviously traumatizing. I think it could be very healing for you to hear how he was affected, too, deep in his heart. It would probably make you feel even more loved to know how much he was affected, and what has gone through his mind since.

It is hard to be a feeler married to a thinker. It can feel like you are reaching deep inside their heads, trying to find and pull out a feeling to examine.

And yet those feelings are essential for feeling emotionally connected to them. That sort of exchange simply must happen for there to be deep understanding and bonding.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #111 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
Have you ever said to him, "I need you to talk about it. I need to hear your heart speak to me about it. Even if it is painful to me, I want to know you--all of you."

What happened to you was obviously traumatizing. I think it could be very healing for you to hear how he was affected, too, deep in his heart. It would probably make you feel even more loved to know how much he was affected, and what has gone through his mind since.

It is hard to be a feeler married to a thinker. It can feel like you are reaching deep inside their heads, trying to find and pull out a feeling to examine.

And yet those feelings are essential for feeling emotionally connected to them. That sort of exchange simply must happen for there to be deep understanding and bonding.
It had never occurred to me that I could ask and bring it up and explicitly state it was for my own sake. I would be very scared to do so just out of the blue on an afternoon. I'd be afraid he's shut me down, or get overwhelmed, or get hurt, or wonder if I'd broken my 3-year NC with the OM, or any combination of those. If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't want to force him into a corner. He might get uncomfortable and then I'd have to deal with the guilt that happens when you hurt someone you love. I'm not even sure it's my right to ask him to talk about it.

But there is one way I can get my answers... maybe we can play The And on Thursday, when it's my day to choose what we do for the evening. I could... ahem... arrange the cards so that a question relating to affairs comes up, and from there ask my question. He always answers in multiple sentences when we play The And. Those are the rules, and the structure of it gives us a sort of sanctuary, since we know beforehand that some kind of emotional topic is going to come up, and we know we must be honest, detailed, and calm no matter what.

Sometimes I wish we could play The And forever, or treat every conversation like that.

Or, y'know, I could just sit him down and ask him... and tell him about the above things that scare me, too... if he could be brave, so can I. I just don't want him to get upset with me for any reason. I wouldn't mind if he was upset over the affair; that's 100% reasonable. I mean I don't want him to be angry or frustrated with me for wanting to talk about it.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #112 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:24 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
It was three years in and the newlywed butterflies were dying for the first time. I didn't know that 1) that happens in all marriages; limerant feelings of infatuation diminish and 2) those feelings are supposed to be revived through continued acts of kindness and romantic gestures. I literally just thought, "Wow, I thought I was supposed to have butterflies every time I look at my husband forever. I never thought I could fall out of love with him... I guess this means we're through."

The OM found me at about that time and told me he could take me out of my home and my marriage before my husband divorced me and left me with nothing, so even if I wasn't compatable with him in every way (or any way) I figured I had better get off the boat as fast as I could while there was still a lifeboat waiting to take me away.
I am not sure about the bolded. Or maybe it just works differently for different people?

I have a great deal of respect for my husband. He is not romantic, and that is indeed a disappointment.

But he is so smart. And so kind. Such a genuinely good and mature man. And I just find that so inspiring.

I guess you are right, Ella. It is my husband's character that pulls me back towards him every time I start feeling disappointed in him.

I think the difference in our marriages is that in your marriage, you are the one taking responsibility for nurturing the marriage. And in mine, it is my husband who is inspiring me, consistently drawing me back towards him.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #113 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:27 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
I have a great deal of respect for my husband. He is not romantic, and that is indeed a disappointment.

But he is so smart. And so kind. Such a genuinely good and mature man. And I just find that so inspiring.
I resonate with the above so much. He appears to have the emotional capacity of a potato, but when I look in his eyes and see them smile, turned up at the corners, sparkling and dancing... I can tell he really, truly loves me. When I see him look at me like that, that, all on its own, is poetry.

EllaSuaveterre is offline  
post #114 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:30 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
It had never occurred to me that I could ask and bring it up and explicitly state it was for my own sake. I would be very scared to do so just out of the blue on an afternoon. I'd be afraid he's shut me down, or get overwhelmed, or get hurt, or wonder if I'd broken my 3-year NC with the OM, or any combination of those. If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't want to force him into a corner. He might get uncomfortable and then I'd have to deal with the guilt that happens when you hurt someone you love. I'm not even sure it's my right to ask him to talk about it.

But there is one way I can get my answers... maybe we can play The And on Thursday, when it's my day to choose what we do for the evening. I could... ahem... arrange the cards so that a question relating to affairs comes up, and from there ask my question. He always answers in multiple sentences when we play The And. Those are the rules, and the structure of it gives us a sort of sanctuary, since we know beforehand that some kind of emotional topic is going to come up, and we know we must be honest, detailed, and calm no matter what.

Sometimes I wish we could play The And forever, or treat every conversation like that.

Or, y'know, I could just sit him down and ask him... and tell him about the above things that scare me, too... if he could be brave, so can I.
I just don't want him to get upset with me for any reason. I wouldn't mind if he was upset over the affair; that's 100% reasonable. I mean I don't want him to be angry or frustrated with me for wanting to talk about it.
Please do not walk in fear. There is no need to.

You radiate light, and love. Trust in that.

Be transparent with him.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #115 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 04:37 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasuaveterre View Post
i resonate with the above so much. He appears to have the emotional capacity of a potato,


Quote:
but when i look in his eyes and see them smile, turned up at the corners, sparkling and dancing... I can tell he really, truly loves me. When i see him look at me like that, that, all on its own, is poetry.


Beautiful, Ella.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #116 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:56 PM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,116
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

You might like this book, Ella:

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Heaven-P.../dp/1501143271

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
post #117 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 02:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,980
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
It had never occurred to me that I could ask and bring it up and explicitly state it was for my own sake. I would be very scared to do so just out of the blue on an afternoon. I'd be afraid he's shut me down, or get overwhelmed, or get hurt, or wonder if I'd broken my 3-year NC with the OM, or any combination of those. If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't want to force him into a corner. He might get uncomfortable and then I'd have to deal with the guilt that happens when you hurt someone you love. I'm not even sure it's my right to ask him to talk about it.

But there is one way I can get my answers... maybe we can play The And on Thursday, when it's my day to choose what we do for the evening. I could... ahem... arrange the cards so that a question relating to affairs comes up, and from there ask my question. He always answers in multiple sentences when we play The And. Those are the rules, and the structure of it gives us a sort of sanctuary, since we know beforehand that some kind of emotional topic is going to come up, and we know we must be honest, detailed, and calm no matter what.

Sometimes I wish we could play The And forever, or treat every conversation like that.

Or, y'know, I could just sit him down and ask him... and tell him about the above things that scare me, too... if he could be brave, so can I. I just don't want him to get upset with me for any reason. I wouldn't mind if he was upset over the affair; that's 100% reasonable. I mean I don't want him to be angry or frustrated with me for wanting to talk about it.
You are married, ask for what you need. Part of being a spouse is being willing to give those things. When you are married to someone occasionally you have to do things that are uncomfortable. Just ask him to talk to you. Tell him your fears. This is how intimacy is built.
sokillme is offline  
post #118 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 03:30 PM
Member
 
katiecrna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,585
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Today, I talked to my husband about the affair. I was the one who brought it up. I said, "Darling... I was just thinking about how brave you are. It took a lot of courage, I'm sure, to take me back and continue to love me and to support BOTH of us...during... you know... what happened in 2014. I admire your bravery." He sat down beside me on the bed, pinned me down beneath his body and hugged me tight. He then replied simply, "It's in the past." I wasn't sure if it was an I don't want to think about this sort of reply or if it was an is she having a flashback sort of reply. I went on, "I know it's in the past, but I just want you to know that I still think about it... about what happened... what I did... about you. I wish I had been more emotionally present with you back then so I could have helped you." Again he replied, "It's okay; it's in the past."



Ehh. Something tells me if I tried to focus any more on his pain (or lack thereof) he'd be less than thrilled.



On the upside, though, Mr. Suaveterre ran out of his favourite breakfast smoothie. He was sleeping in my spare bed and said he was too tired to get up and go to the store, so I made him a smoothie of my own recipe. It was actually probably healthier and more nourishing than the store-bought ones. He thanked me. <3


People handle things differently. And you need to respect how your husband handles it. It's obvious he doesn't want to talk about it or be reminded of it. I am the same way personally.
People like you Elle want to talk about it. Which should be done with close friends or a therapist. Personally I think you need to drop it.
katiecrna is online now  
post #119 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 07:12 PM
Member
 
Quality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 318
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
Have you ever said to him, "I need you to talk about it. I need to hear your heart speak to me about it. Even if it is painful to me, I want to know you--all of you."

What happened to you was obviously traumatizing. I think it could be very healing for you to hear how he was affected, too, deep in his heart. It would probably make you feel even more loved to know how much he was affected, and what has gone through his mind since.

It is hard to be a feeler married to a thinker. It can feel like you are reaching deep inside their heads, trying to find and pull out a feeling to examine.

And yet those feelings are essential for feeling emotionally connected to them. That sort of exchange simply must happen for there to be deep understanding and bonding.

This strikes me as cruel and generally amounts to pain shopping.

I, too, saw it as the cliffhanger question Ella was dangling out there that I figured a wayward thinking person would probably take a stab at eventually; and, again, I wasn't disappointed or surprised.

It's not enough he took her back, forgave her and didn't berate or punish her. Instead it's suggested she seek more validation that he cares and loves her by pain shopping for details about all the pain and turmoil he felt inside. I also like how it's wrapped up in niceties that this MUST happen for THEM to feel emotionally connected and for deep understanding and bonding as though this advice was meant to benefit him as well.

It's like because he was to nice to Ella and pretty non-emotional about it {then and now}, he's being perceived as not really caring and therefore, must be prompted to share his innermost hurts because Ella needs to feel more love and get her admiration fix.

How does Ella put up with such a monster?

{another clue why it's a bad idea to have a waywards guiding waywards}


I recall a story a betrayed husband shared with me where his foggy undecided wayward wife was trying to figure out if her husband was pretending to be a much better husband or faking it simply to trap her back in the old hopeless desperate marriage. So she asked him to cry and that would help HER believe he was legitimate and sincere. She wanted an emotional response as a reason to consider reconnecting with him versus the logic her husband and everyone else was presenting and demonstrating. He simply told her he'd run out of tears after months of this crap and she'd just have to believe him.

Maybe he'll share someday and maybe he won't. Maybe he's in denial and trying to act nonchalant about it or maybe, he knew that betrayal day would likely come because that's what happens when a 28 year man marries a teenager with significant abandonment and father issues; and, now, he's just THANKFUL it's over and thinks demonstrating grace towards her is either the best way to keep her from leaving or actually the most loving thing he can do FOR HER {especially considering her family history that he's aware of and how emotional upset she still gets about OM}. Or~~ he's a programmer and he monitors her computer and posting and gets all the validation he needs by reading her posts on the forum. Maybe he's a stoic man, devoid of all emotion and really is over it {not everyone wants to spend their entire life focused on this, it happened, it's over ~~ let's move on}.

Regardless, Ella, you do NOT have to drag this out of him FOR YOU to FEEL "deep understanding and bonding".

He forgave your betrayal ~~ isn't that enough?

Why would any wayward NEED their betrayed spouse to share all their pain in greater and greater detail to, themselves, feel more loved?

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
Quality is offline  
post #120 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllaSuaveterre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

@Quality: Thanks for your response from the other side of the coin. And thank you for reminding me that he really does love me, because I sometimes wonder due to his lack of emotional responses. I forget that I still have a lot to be thankful for. At least he does try. I told him I was feeling insecure tonight and he hugged me and said, "You are my sweet puffling, and you always will be. I'll never leave you." Even though he sounded a little like he was reciting something he was supposed to memorize, the fact that he knows I need to hear words of comfort and tried to offer them was good enough. He really does try, and that's very meaningful all on its own. He did offer me grace when I assumed he was going to kick me out, and that's a blessing, and I understand that he did so purely as a gesture of lovingkindness.

I didn't end up asking him to talk about how the affair made him feel today, as JLD suggested. I saw a picture in a magazine of the same type of religious jewelry that the OM used to wear, and it was sort of a trigger. I felt like I was going to be sick, and unless I take deep breaths and intentionally focus on something else, I still see him. And I hate it. I hate his face. I see her too, his daughter, way too thin, unkempt, looking scared and vulnerable. I hate seeing these images and I want to forget right now, too. I said to my husband, who was reading the magazine with me, "I have GOT to get over my revulsion to the Tree of Life." He looked confused. "That necklace. That symbol is what HE wore." He still looked confused for a brief second and then I could see it dawn on him. He said, "Oh! That." and he took me in his arms and held me really tightly, so that I'd have to focus on his hug. Mindfulness. It sometimes almost sort of works for me.

Since Mr. Suaveterre is a man of few words, I have to discern rather a lot through his facial expressions. He still had a blank look for a half-second when I said the word "HE", and he startled ever-so-slightly as he understood to whom I was referring, like the memory was a surprise to him. It's not at the front of his mind. It's not a constant thought in his head. This tells me he really is over it, that he's no longer tormented over it, and that he really does forgive me.

But Quality, you're right. I don't need to traumatize my husband by coaxing him into talking if he doesn't want to.

However I do want to clarify that I didn't ask the question hoping to get or expecting an answer of "Yes, talk to him" or "No, don't talk to him". I was merely asking because asking my husband for help for my emotions about the affair is one of those things they say WWs shouldn't do, but my situation was/is atypical, so I had no idea what would have been the "right" thing to do.


Last edited by EllaSuaveterre; 03-01-2017 at 08:44 PM.
EllaSuaveterre is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What advice would you give to a wayward/betrayed spouse and why? EllaSuaveterre Coping with Infidelity 202 02-20-2017 01:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome