Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
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post #121 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 08:32 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I recall a story a betrayed husband shared with me where his foggy undecided wayward wife was trying to figure out if her husband was pretending to be a much better husband or faking it simply to trap her back in the old hopeless desperate marriage. So she asked him to cry and that would help HER believe he was legitimate and sincere. She wanted an emotional response as a reason to consider reconnecting with him versus the logic her husband and everyone else was presenting and demonstrating. He simply told her he'd run out of tears after months of this crap and she'd just have to believe him.

Maybe he'll share someday and maybe he won't.
He should have never taken her back, she sounds awful. Maybe he is making a big mistake.

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Maybe he's in denial and trying to act nonchalant about it or maybe, he knew that betrayal day would likely come because that's what happens when a 28 year man marries a teenager with significant abandonment and father issues; and, now, he's just THANKFUL it's over and thinks demonstrating grace towards her is either the best way to keep her from leaving or actually the most loving thing he can do FOR HER {especially considering her family history that he's aware of and how emotional upset she still gets about OM}. Or~~ he's a programmer and he monitors her computer and posting and gets all the validation he needs by reading her posts on the forum. Maybe he's a stoic man, devoid of all emotion and really is over it {not everyone wants to spend their entire life focused on this, it happened, it's over ~~ let's move on}.
This is what you call a success?

Just saying.

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post #122 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 06:04 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

Ella, I understand it might be hard to become completely transparent with your husband. You may be afraid of his response. You may be afraid of losing the marriage.

I can only tell you that from the very beginning of my relationship with my husband, nearly 24 years and five children ago now, I committed to transparency with him. The way I saw it, if we were going to be a couple, our relationship needed to be based on transparency, because transparency builds trust.

And if he could not handle my transparency, I was okay with losing the relationship. "Mejor sola que mal acompanada."

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #123 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 08:30 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

I don't think he is ever going to give you what you think you need to feel loved. He forgave you. He is a nice guy. No he's not emotional and he's not a romantic. But he loves you with the ability that he knows how. And I don't think this is good enough for you though.

Life is not a fairy tale. Marriage for sure is not a fairy tale. This whole thing, your whole story seems like In the end you are feeling board, unloved, unsatisfied, restless, searching for something to make you feel a certain way which is why you keep bringing up the past.

Your husband is fine. He's over it and he is happy. You on the other hand are not fine. Your not satisfied with your current life. You feel like you need him to talk to you about how much you hurt him, you want to see him get emotional and express love very deeply for you. My problem with this is... it goes back to you needing attention and it being all about you. AND why do you want to see your husband hurt... why reopen a scab? Just so you can feel like he does love and care about you? That's selfish. You husband will never be this emotional man, this romantic man that you feel you need him to be. But he's a pretty amazing guy being who he is. Appreciate him for him. Stop yearning for something he can't give you. You will never know peace if you don't stop searching.

Ella what would you do if your life was exactly like this in 5 years. Would you be happy?
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post #124 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I don't think he is ever going to give you what you think you need to feel loved. He forgave you. He is a nice guy. No he's not emotional and he's not a romantic. But he loves you with the ability that he knows how. And I don't think this is good enough for you though.

Life is not a fairy tale. Marriage for sure is not a fairy tale. This whole thing, your whole story seems like In the end you are feeling board, unloved, unsatisfied, restless, searching for something to make you feel a certain way which is why you keep bringing up the past.

Your husband is fine. He's over it and he is happy. You on the other hand are not fine. Your not satisfied with your current life. You feel like you need him to talk to you about how much you hurt him, you want to see him get emotional and express love very deeply for you. My problem with this is... it goes back to you needing attention and it being all about you. AND why do you want to see your husband hurt... why reopen a scab? Just so you can feel like he does love and care about you? That's selfish. You husband will never be this emotional man, this romantic man that you feel you need him to be. But he's a pretty amazing guy being who he is. Appreciate him for him. Stop yearning for something he can't give you. You will never know peace if you don't stop searching.

Ella what would you do if your life was exactly like this in 5 years. Would you be happy?
I would be happy. I would be content. I would not be elated, but I would be content. I have always struggled with needing emotional intensity in my relationships to feel loved. In high school, my last relationship was based solely on the fact that he felt like he was my knight in shining armor and wanted to save me from my emotional problems. He said all the right things, all the romantic and tender things that he probably learned from watching emotional anime. But after a year of dating him I broke it off.

I realized I wasn't going to get married to this guy, because as intense as it was it was all very shallow. I understood on some level that the damsel-in-distress dynamic that I need wasn't enough to sustain a long-term relationship. I decided that the next relationship I'd be in would not be based in my needing to be rescued. And the next relationship I was in was with my husband. I knew when we were dating, and I knew when I married him, that he wasn't the type to shower me with sympathetic words.

But I also know on some level that the fact that he's not emotionally intense enables him to weather my emotional storms without getting exasperated. His clement temperament, even if it's boring, makes him able to withstand things most men couldn't. He doesn't mind my constant weeping spells. He provides for me and takes care of me and even does his best to attend to my emotional needs. I look around me and I see that everything I own, he bought for me. My luxurious bed, a closet literally bursting with dresses, and so. Much. Jewelery. What kind of man would do that for a woman but one who loves her? He genuinely likes the side of me that wants to decorate the whole world pink and watch kids' shows on tv. What man would love that in a woman but one who loves her?

So when I get down about the fact that he's never going to take me in his arms and whisper soothing nothings into my ear as I sob info his chest, then draw me a bath and spoon me all night... I think about all the things he HAS done for me. It's not perfect, but I'm not perfect either, not even to my own standards. And I eventually decide what I already have is good enough. Meanwhile I work on the fact that I need emotional intensity to feel loved in therapy. My therapist is convinced once I master the art of mindfulness and self-love I won't need emotional intensity so much anymore. I remain doubtful, but hopeful.

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post #125 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:45 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

But I don't think this has anything to do with the affair. I think this is just who you are and who you have always been. I don't understand the need to always bring up the affair.
The affair is not something that caused anything or needs to be looked into with a microscope. The affair is a product of you being who you are... needing to feel loved to such a high degree in order to feel loved. THAT needs to be the issue that needs to be worked out.
I don't understand why you keep harping on the affair. It's not good for you or for him. You were this way before the affair. Now your using the affair as ammo to invoke a reaction out of your husband to make you feel loved. It's not nice. Drop the affair.
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post #126 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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But I don't think this has anything to do with the affair. I think this is just who you are and who you have always been. I don't understand the need to always bring up the affair.
The affair is not something that caused anything or needs to be looked into with a microscope. The affair is a product of you being who you are... needing to feel loved to such a high degree in order to feel loved. THAT needs to be the issue that needs to be worked out.
I don't understand why you keep harping on the affair. It's not good for you or for him. You were this way before the affair. Now your using the affair as ammo to invoke a reaction out of your husband to make you feel loved. It's not nice. Drop the affair.
Alright, I won't mention it to him again, if I can help it. I haven't intentionally used the affair as ammo to make myself feel loved. I was going to ask him to show his emotions for me, but more people say that it will end up going badly than say that it will end up going well, so I won't. The only times I've brought the affair up so far are when I've had a trigger. The rest of my thoughts about a generally stay in my head or end up on this forum.

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post #127 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 11:23 AM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Alright, I won't mention it to him again, if I can help it. I haven't intentionally used the affair as ammo to make myself feel loved. I was going to ask him to show his emotions for me, but more people say that it will end up going badly than say that it will end up going well, so I won't. The only times I've brought the affair up so far are when I've had a trigger. The rest of my thoughts about a generally stay in my head or end up on this forum.
I don't think you bring up the affair to feel loved. Not at all. I think you bring it up because you are still working through the trauma, just on a different level than you did a few years ago. You are talking it through, considering it from different angles. It is surely part of healing.

Now, could talking about it with him end up making you both feel loved? I think so. Deep sharing often has that effect on a couple. Again, opening our heart to our spouse is part of bonding.

Ella, your last sentence is concerning. Does he know what you are writing here? I think it is important that he does. Again, transparency builds trust. Nothing should be hidden in marriage.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #128 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I don't think you bring up the affair to feel loved. Not at all. I think you bring it up because you are still working through the trauma, just on a different level than you did a few years ago. You are talking it through, considering it from different angles. It is surely part of healing.

Now, could talking about it with him end up making you both feel loved? I think so. Deep sharing often has that effect on a couple. Again, opening our heart to our spouse is part of bonding.

Ella, your last sentence is concerning. Does he know what you are writing here? I think it is important that he does. Again, transparency builds trust. Nothing should be hidden in marriage.
He knows of what I write here,but he had not read it himself, to my knowledge. He could if he wanted to; I'd let him. But I'd be embarrassed. And afraid. I don't want to hurt him. I don't know what to do. Part of me really wants to talk about it with him, because I need him and I need his comfort, and I need to know that he knows and that he cares. But maybe the others are right. Maybe I don't have any right to ask that my need to process be met in this way. Maybe I need to process alone, lest I drive him away. Maybe I need to process alone because anything else would be selfish. I don't understand why I'm thinking about OM so much. I also had a relapse into my eating disorder a fortnight ago. I starved myself for 5 days but then I started eating normally again. I don't know why I want to rehash old emotions or why I want to lose weight and stop eating. Maybe I do just want attention, and maybe that's a bad thing. I wish it wasn't.

I'm going to therapy in a couple hours. I'll talk about it then.


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post #129 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:06 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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He knows of what I write here,but he had not read it himself, to my knowledge. He could I'd he wanted to; I'd let him. But I'd be embarrassed. And afraid. I don't want to hurt him. I don't know what to do. Part of me really wants to talk about it with him, because I need him and I need his comfort, and I need to know that he knows and that he cares. But maybe the others are right. Maybe I don't have any right to ask that my need to process be met in this way. Maybe I need to process alone, lest I drive him away. Maybe I need to process alone because anything else would be selfish. I don't understand why I'm thinking about OM so much. I also had a relapse into my eating disorder a fortnight ago. I starved myself for 5 days but then I started eating normally again. I don't know why I want to rehash old emotions or why I want to lose weight and stop eating. Maybe I do just want attention, and maybe that's a bad thing. I wish it wasn't.

I'm going to therapy in a couple hours. I'll talk about it then.
Oh, Ella, I am so sorry to hear about the eating disorder.

So glad you are seeing a therapist. I hope he or she can help.

I don't think you are selfish, nor are you simply seeking attention. You are trying to deepen the marriage through transparent communication and vulnerability. It could be very healing for both of you.

I certainly do not see anything wrong with sharing everything in your heart openly with him. Honestly, I think it is very healthy and absolutely essential for a thriving marriage.

Ella, does your therapist know you post here? Does she know the kind of feedback you are getting?

If you were my daughter (and my own daughter is actually just two years younger than you are), I would urge you to open your whole heart to your husband--complete vulnerability. A strong man can handle that. He won't take it personally. He will likely be moved by his wife's trust in him.

Ella, I do think your husband loves you. I also think he could grow from revisiting what happened, however uncomfortable initially.

The more you share from your heart with your spouse, the more vulnerable you are, the greater the chance for understanding and bonding. Who would ever not want that in marriage?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #130 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:08 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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Alright, I won't mention it to him again, if I can help it. I haven't intentionally used the affair as ammo to make myself feel loved. I was going to ask him to show his emotions for me, but more people say that it will end up going badly than say that it will end up going well, so I won't. The only times I've brought the affair up so far are when I've had a trigger. The rest of my thoughts about a generally stay in my head or end up on this forum.


I think its 100% ok to tell your husband you need more emotion out of him. I'm like you Ella, I require more from my husband to feel loved because of issues that I have. And my husband knows this. So when I feel I need "more" from him usually because I am feeling vulnerable I tell him this. Babe I'm feeling unloved and vulnerable today...

You have two separate issues. Your need to feel loved and this affair. The affair has nothing to do with anything. The issue is you sometimes need more love from your husband and that's ok. It's because of who you are as a person, not because of the affair.

So when you need more love and attention, tell him that. Don't bring up the affair to him to invoke a reaction out of him so you feel loved. So you understand what I'm saying?

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post #131 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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So when I feel I need "more" from him usually because I am feeling vulnerable I tell him this. Babe I'm feeling unloved and vulnerable today...

You have two separate issues. Your need to feel loved and this affair. The affair has nothing to do with anything. The issue is you sometimes need more love from your husband and that's ok. It's because of who you are as a person, not because of the affair.

So when you need more love and attention, tell him that. Don't bring up the affair to him to invoke a reaction out of him so you feel loved. So you understand what I'm saying?

That's all I usually say too, that I'm having a bad body image day or I'm having bad memories or I just need more love and reassurance. I don't usually go into detail. Meanwhile, I know the affair has nothing to do with anything, yet here I am. I wish I could stop thinking about it. They say every time you remember something, your mind changes the mental picture of the memory just a little bit, until eventually the memory you have looks very little like the actual event. I wonder if what I remember was even real? It's been so long. Why am I still thinking about it? Why is it now that I'm suddenly having more intrusive memories?

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post #132 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:15 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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.



Now, could talking about it with him end up making you both feel loved? I think so. Deep sharing often has that effect on a couple. Again, opening our heart to our spouse is part of bonding.



.


I agree that it COULD bring them together. But it could also tear them apart. Especially if her husband is the kind of man who doesn't want to talk about it and wants to drop it. She has attempted to open up to him multiple times and he clearly said just forget it. He is respectfully saying he doesn't want to talk about it. And I think the more she try's to bring it up, and the more he shuts her down the worse she is going to feel, the more unloved she is going to feel.

She needs to accept that he loves her in his own way. But he doesn't want to talk about the affair, that's how he deals with it. The more she try's and fails the worse she will feel. She is hurting herself by not letting this affair go. She needs to let it go and accept that he loves her in his own way.
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post #133 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:24 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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That's all I usually say too, that I'm having a bad body image day or I'm having bad memories or I just need more love and reassurance. I don't usually go into detail. Meanwhile, I know the affair has nothing to do with anything, yet here I am. I wish I could stop thinking about it. They say every time you remember something, your mind changes the mental picture of the memory just a little bit, until eventually the memory you have looks very little like the actual event. I wonder if what I remember was even real? It's been so long. Why am I still thinking about it? Why is it now that I'm suddenly having more intrusive memories?


Your thinking about it because your constantly talking about it Ella.
It's normal to have memorizes here and there. It's not normal to obsess and keep talking about it years after the fact.
And I love Therapy and I believe in therapy but sometimes you need to stop opening up the scab and just let it heal.
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post #134 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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That's all I usually say too, that I'm having a bad body image day or I'm having bad memories or I just need more love and reassurance. I don't usually go into detail. Meanwhile, I know the affair has nothing to do with anything, yet here I am. I wish I could stop thinking about it. They say every time you remember something, your mind changes the mental picture of the memory just a little bit, until eventually the memory you have looks very little like the actual event. I wonder if what I remember was even real? It's been so long. Why am I still thinking about it? Why is it now that I'm suddenly having more intrusive memories?
I think it is coming into your mind because you still have some healing you need to do.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #135 of 243 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 12:30 PM
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Re: Sympathy for The Devil- Wayward Spouses and Compassion

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I agree that it COULD bring them together. But it could also tear them apart. Especially if her husband is the kind of man who doesn't want to talk about it and wants to drop it. She has attempted to open up to him multiple times and he clearly said just forget it. He is respectfully saying he doesn't want to talk about it. And I think the more she try's to bring it up, and the more he shuts her down the worse she is going to feel, the more unloved she is going to feel.

She needs to accept that he loves her in his own way. But he doesn't want to talk about the affair, that's how he deals with it. The more she try's and fails the worse she will feel. She is hurting herself by not letting this affair go. She needs to let it go and accept that he loves her in his own way.
That is not "dealing with it," Katie.

These feelings are not going to just go away, Ella. Your husband needs to hear them, and you.

What are you scared of, ultimately? That he will leave you?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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