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post #16 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 02:51 AM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Originally Posted by blueinbr View Post
Maybe you should go into the details why your marriage is sexless. It's relevant.
I don't think his marriage is sexless. He's just not that involved.


If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #17 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 05:40 AM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

OMG my friend, that came out all wrong, or only made sense in my head! That's not remotely what I meant! So sorry!

The unique title! I thought, "Oh that's a clever title, sounds like something SCM would come up with." Then I get down and there's a post from you and your opening line is that you love the title.

I love reading all your posts. So intriguing. I had a friend that you remind me of that has passed away, and he was so awesome with words. I loved to listen to him talk. No insult given, in fact, I can't recall ever disagreeing with you!

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Well!

I have never been more insulted!

Before I go off on a long winded tangent, explain to our audience and OP why you thought this.

Or, just PM me [with your reply].

SCM

P.S. You are more correct than you think.........................only it's 65 years after the fact.

ESP....is real.

Ciao,

Spicy
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post #18 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 01:28 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

jetpilot, welcome aboard! I'm an airline captain fwiw. I've heard more stories of cheating pilot's wives than I care to think about. It is an epidemic.

First thing, stfu about any suspicions with your wife. And try to just stfu about everything until you've thought about it for a few moments at least. Let me tell you a story...

Years ago I suspected my wife (now ex-wife) was cheating. Kids were teens, I wasn't ready to nuke the marriage, and besides I hadn't been to TAM and didn't know about Weightlifter's thread on gathering intel. Lots of smoking guns, blood all over, but no dead body. So, I was not ready to file for divorce. Then, the trail went cold. I approached her about MC and tried talking with her about fixing the marriage. It appeared the affair was finished, if there'd been one.

So there we were, waiting for a flight for the big family vacation, killing time looking at my old, weak, smart phone. And I discovered a hidden mail folder. She had the same make/model phone, too. And I spontaneously blurted out what I'd discovered. Hundreds and hundreds of old emails going back several years. As the words were halfway out of my mouth I tried but failed to think of a way to change the sentence to keep from telling her this, so that I could later look at the emails she'd cleansed from her computer. Well, she suddenly glued her phone inside her pocket until late night after I'd gone to sleep, and she manually erased about 700 old emails. There was no bulk delete function. She spent several hours deleting them out while I slept.

I lost any chance of accessing her old emails by blurting something out without thinking. So be careful in what you say for the next few weeks while you investigate.

Consider installing a video camera built into a clock radio, smoke detector, or other gadget she won't suspect. They make VARs that look like a pen (and do write). If I were you, I'd carefully hide a VAR in your bedroom. Also in the living room or other area she would likely sit and talk on the phone. One in her car. Hide them well, because she may now be cautious given your observation of the bed moving.

Carefully search her car. All the cubbies and compartments, including spare tire, etc. You're looking for anything odd. Review the phone records carefully, going back at least a year. Changes in patterns may pop out. Review credit card records. Put a GPS on her car.

Another thought is to just end the marriage. It obviously has serious problems. Perhaps you would both be happier if you just split. If you live in a no-fault state it may be easier just to pull the eject handle rather than go looking for an affair. Talk to an atty first. Most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can find out how things work where you live.
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post #19 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 03:53 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Maybe you should go into the details why your marriage is sexless. It's relevant.
a sexless marriage is one just ASKING for trouble. fix that!
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post #20 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 04:40 PM
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My Bed Started Walking

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Originally Posted by Talker67 View Post
a sexless marriage is one just ASKING for trouble. fix that!


Well, i was trying unfortunately . That's why I'm here.
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post #21 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

Does she use the space under the bed for storage? If she isn't using under the bed totes or something similar, does she maybe stash her vibrator and dildo collection there? Does she maybe have a sock with her "emergency fund" hidden in the box spring?

If there's nothing stored or hidden under the bed, I'd go with perhaps she is having enthusiastic sex with someone while you're away.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #22 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

I appreciate all the replies. Someone asked me to expound more about the sexless marriage. When we started dating in Dec '06, we had a great sex life, in fact I've rarely had anyone as sexual as she. Gorgeous, eleven years younger than me, and with the sex drive of a man was a recipe I enjoyed. Then it happened, I proposed. She started turning me down more and more throughout the year long engagement and by the time we tied the knot we were mostly celibate. She always had an excuse and judging by the way things where in that area prior to our getting married, I figured things had to return to the way they were when we met at some point? She eventually tells me she has no sex drive and blames it on hormones. She initially didn't want to go see a doctor so getting her to do that took a while. Once she went to a doctor and went through testing and such, she was diagnosed with PCOS. I think that might be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age. I have read and confirmed with a couple of different therapist that women who are sexual abuse survivors, that once they get married, sex becomes a struggle. The survivor sees her husband as the one whom abused her, and so intimacy, both sexual and emotional goes out the window. Once I read this and talk to a couple of therapist I know, it all made sense. My company provides free counseling through our EAP so I have called and got that set up yet she will not go. I don't think she's being rebellious, just is terrified of opening up. This is the same person who when the two of us went to premarital counseling, started crying just walking in the door. It is very very painful for her to talk about anything deep. So my beliefs are that she has a sex drive, had had a sex drive, yet just nothing for me. And believe me I've done everything I can on my end. Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it. I do have some precautions in place at home now that I'm staring a new trip for work this evening. Does anyone know the specifics of FB Messenger? Like is it possible to put spy ware on her phone that can monitor those messages without jail breaking her phone (android)?? Once again, I appreciate the info and support from you all.


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post #23 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
jetpilot, welcome aboard! I'm an airline captain fwiw. I've heard more stories of cheating pilot's wives than I care to think about. It is an epidemic.

First thing, stfu about any suspicions with your wife. And try to just stfu about everything until you've thought about it for a few moments at least. Let me tell you a story...

Years ago I suspected my wife (now ex-wife) was cheating. Kids were teens, I wasn't ready to nuke the marriage, and besides I hadn't been to TAM and didn't know about Weightlifter's thread on gathering intel. Lots of smoking guns, blood all over, but no dead body. So, I was not ready to file for divorce. Then, the trail went cold. I approached her about MC and tried talking with her about fixing the marriage. It appeared the affair was finished, if there'd been one.

So there we were, waiting for a flight for the big family vacation, killing time looking at my old, weak, smart phone. And I discovered a hidden mail folder. She had the same make/model phone, too. And I spontaneously blurted out what I'd discovered. Hundreds and hundreds of old emails going back several years. As the words were halfway out of my mouth I tried but failed to think of a way to change the sentence to keep from telling her this, so that I could later look at the emails she'd cleansed from her computer. Well, she suddenly glued her phone inside her pocket until late night after I'd gone to sleep, and she manually erased about 700 old emails. There was no bulk delete function. She spent several hours deleting them out while I slept.

I lost any chance of accessing her old emails by blurting something out without thinking. So be careful in what you say for the next few weeks while you investigate.

Consider installing a video camera built into a clock radio, smoke detector, or other gadget she won't suspect. They make VARs that look like a pen (and do write). If I were you, I'd carefully hide a VAR in your bedroom. Also in the living room or other area she would likely sit and talk on the phone. One in her car. Hide them well, because she may now be cautious given your observation of the bed moving.

Carefully search her car. All the cubbies and compartments, including spare tire, etc. You're looking for anything odd. Review the phone records carefully, going back at least a year. Changes in patterns may pop out. Review credit card records. Put a GPS on her car.

Another thought is to just end the marriage. It obviously has serious problems. Perhaps you would both be happier if you just split. If you live in a no-fault state it may be easier just to pull the eject handle rather than go looking for an affair. Talk to an atty first. Most will give a free 15-30 minute consult where you can find out how things work where you live.


Hey Thor, thanks for the reply. So what happened if I may ask? Was that the final straw as far as seeing her deleting those emails? Yes, it's quite the epidemic with our industry. I have several friends who have gone through the same BS.


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post #24 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
Does she use the space under the bed for storage? If she isn't using under the bed totes or something similar, does she maybe stash her vibrator and dildo collection there? Does she maybe have a sock with her "emergency fund" hidden in the box spring?

If there's nothing stored or hidden under the bed, I'd go with perhaps she is having enthusiastic sex with someone while you're away.


Yeah, there's nothing under there. I'm the one that does most of the cleaning so I vacuum under our bed -we have stained cement floors and I would've seen something along those lines. She's a sharp person. And I'm frankly surprised she slipped up like this. She is a fraud investigator for an insurance company, doesn't miss anything. Has an eye like I've never seen for detail. I don't think it's been recent, as far as any activity with her and someone else, I just noticed the bed moved this one occasion. Of course now she will be very diligent about that. Thanks for your help.


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post #25 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:02 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

So no kids?

Pull the cord, Captain.


Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."

Last edited by GusPolinski; 02-28-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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post #26 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:11 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

I'm in a very active relationship right now, and my bed walks quite a bit. There's definitely something going on
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post #27 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:18 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

jp37

Noting that your wife is “very good at covering her tracks”, as per Spicy’s recommendation, I also suggest you consider hiring a professional such as a PI, the next time you are away from home. A PI can setup a surveillance, follow your wife, provide advice on placement of VARS, etc.

A common error is confronting a wayward spouse too soon with insufficient evidence. A not unusual result is the wayward spouse denning, deflecting, turning the table, etc. resulting in the betrayed spouse backing down. Before you confront, you want to be in the position of asking questions you already know the answers to.

If this affair is still ongoing, particularly if your wife is bringing the other man in your home, the PI’s report and other discovery actions will likely provide the required evidence in a relatively short period of time.

In the interim, it is important you act like “life is normal” so that you wife does not become suspicious that you may be aware; thus, resulting in her in doubling down in “covering her tracks”.

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post #28 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:34 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

Please read thor's threads and posts. He dropped it, accepted and lived in a poor marriage for years, she filed.

Your post about CSA may well be the truth. I have not read any threads where reconciliation was successful once the CSA victim went down the path of adultery. There is one thread that is some what current on the board now, but he did not have a sexless marriage.

@JayOwen I believe is his user name. He has made the decision to work on reconciliation. A decision I respect and support as he is fully aware of the pitfalls ahead and has a solid exit plan in mind if unsuccessful.

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
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post #29 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:43 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Originally Posted by jetpilot37 View Post
When we started dating in Dec '06, we had a great sex life, in fact I've rarely had anyone as sexual as she. Gorgeous, eleven years younger than me, and with the sex drive of a man was a recipe I enjoyed. Then it happened, I proposed. She started turning me down more and more throughout the year long engagement and by the time we tied the knot we were mostly celibate. She always had an excuse and judging by the way things where in that area prior to our getting married, I figured things had to return to the way they were when we met at some point? She eventually tells me she has no sex drive and blames it on hormones. She initially didn't want to go see a doctor so getting her to do that took a while. Once she went to a doctor and went through testing and such, she was diagnosed with PCOS. I think that might be part of it, but the other issue is there's extensive abuse in her past. Definitely emotional and more than likely sexual. She can't recall any of her childhood however has admitted to remembering bits and pieces of sexual abuse. She says she doesn't remember who or what the circumstance or at what age. I have read and confirmed with a couple of different therapist that women who are sexual abuse survivors, that once they get married, sex becomes a struggle. The survivor sees her husband as the one whom abused her, and so intimacy, both sexual and emotional goes out the window. Once I read this and talk to a couple of therapist I know, it all made sense. My company provides free counseling through our EAP so I have called and got that set up yet she will not go. I don't think she's being rebellious, just is terrified of opening up. This is the same person who when the two of us went to premarital counseling, started crying just walking in the door. It is very very painful for her to talk about anything deep. So my beliefs are that she has a sex drive, had had a sex drive, yet just nothing for me. And believe me I've done everything I can on my end. Interestingly enough, since she and I had our talk which spawned my writing all of this, we have slept together several times, basically every day. This hasn't happened in years. I'm not sure what to make of it. I do have some precautions in place at home now that I'm staring a new trip for work this evening. Does anyone know the specifics of FB Messenger? Like is it possible to put spy ware on her phone that can monitor those messages without jail breaking her phone (android)?? Once again, I appreciate the info and support from you all.
By the time I got to the line about her having childhood abuse it was obvious that was going to be the situation. You have a good general understanding that this is a typical progression. Your situation is textbook. It sounds to me as if she were victimized at a fairly young age, grade school most likely. Her sexual history sounds to me inconsistent with a teen rape victim, though CSA victims sometimes find themselves also rape victims as teens.

None of us are qualified to actually diagnose her, but this is how it reads to me.

Nothing is going to get better unless and until she deals with her childhood abuse. She needs a good therapist who specializes in child sex abuse. You can't be her therapist. At best, with the direction of her therapist, you can be a support to her.

You are a Secondary Survivor of Child Sex Abuse. She is the victim or the Survivor. You are the Secondary, meaning you are enjoying the fallout. And this is a terrible place to be. You have to tread very carefully in discussing the entire topic of CSA with her. Many times the victim believes they are ultimately unloveable because of the abuse. This is why they hide it. Perhaps a parent or other adult knew of the abuse and told her to stfu because nobody would believe her, or that she would be ostracized if people knew she were a dirty girl. Such events may be more damaging to the young child than the actual abuse events themselves. Anyhow, you and I know she is a victim of a crime, and is not dirty or unloveable, but she may not. So, she fears anyone finding out about the abuse.

Additionally, she cannot distinguish between the abuse itself and the long term effects it has on her. She is unhappy and feeling anxious at times, and she has behaviors which harm the marriage and upset you. To admit she has these issues may be in her mind the same as admitting she was at fault for the abuse (which makes her in her mind a dirty unloveable person if she was at fault for the abuse). So, to admit she has issues today could be a very frightening thing to her. She may not even cognitively understand it, but she may fear if she admits to deficiencies as a wife then you may see her as dirty and unloveable.

Remember she most likely experienced whatever abuse as a young child, not an adult or even a teen. So she has encoded it as a child would. Some say the child never matures emotionally from the time of the abuse. Idk if I fully agree with it, but I think it is accurate to say she doesn't have the same perspective or ability to evaluate it as non victims do.

Last edited by Thor; 02-26-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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post #30 of 139 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 07:58 PM
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Re: My Bed Started Walking

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Hey Thor, thanks for the reply. So what happened if I may ask? Was that the final straw as far as seeing her deleting those emails? Yes, it's quite the epidemic with our industry. I have several friends who have gone through the same BS.
So what happened was basically nothing. I didn't take decisive action.

We arrived at the vacation house mid-day. She kept her phone in her pocket the whole day. Very uncharacteristic!

Those old phones only deleted emails with a slow data connection and had to delete them from the main server. So it was a slow process to delete emails.

So that evening she had it on the charger and I took a quick peek, seeing something like 800 or 900 emails going back about 2 years. That was right through the suspicious time period. But I didn't have time to look more closely.

And I never just took her phone. We were a few weeks into trying to fix things, and I was in that euphoric state of thinking she was on board. Actually she wasn't, she was doing just enough for me to think so.

So I woke up at like 4 am and stealthily took her phone. She'd moved it to the nightstand next to her. I went under the covers and went to the folder, to find all but the most recent few emails had been erased. She had waited until I went to sleep and then deleted them.

Going by how long it took me to erase my old emails during the next week, she spent around 90 minutes deleting hers. I made up some silly reason to ask her about it, which she replied that she woke up in the night and had nothing better to do.

I wish I'd said nothing when I discovered the hidden folder on my phone. But we'd both been having major storage issues with those old phones and my immediate reaction was I'd found a way to solve it. Stupid! And I should have just taken her phone and gone for a long walk with it when we got to the vacation house. I permanently lost any chance of finding out what had been going on.

Last edited by Thor; 02-26-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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