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post #481 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:49 PM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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The net of this is, God help me, I've decided I have to dig a bit just to settle my mind.
God, Someone please tell me I'm crazy and that I just need to let it go.
No, you're not crazy. You want to let it go but you can't. Part of why you can't is that there are red flags which anyone would wonder about in the past, and secondly her current behavior is out of the norm for her and you recognize her pattern of deception.

I would put a VAR in her car. There is a high likelihood she is talking on the phone with somebody about what is going on. And/or VAR the house where she may have a conversation. Her friend the BS wife may be her confidant and they have discussions in your house.

Aside from her confessing to you, I think you are very unlikely otherwise to stumble upon the truth. The pressure of a polygraph could provide an answer. So there are the 2 options I see as offering a good chance of getting you some closure.

FWIW, my wife would rarely state overt lies. I think she sees herself as an honest person. But she would omit critical facts, and deflect conversations to slightly different aspects so as not to reveal the truth. Trust your gut in how you are perceiving your wife's behavior.

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post #482 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:49 PM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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Hate to suggest this.....but I just read about your wife being flirty. You traveled a lot. Any chance your wife was sexually assaulted and that's what she's hiding?
I cant see that his wife would need to hide a sexual assault?
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post #483 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:55 PM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

I see this as being about trust. How can the op trust his wife again if he knows she is hiding something? For those who say let it go and move on, how is he to trust her in the future if she is lying about the past? In a healthy marriage there has to be honesty.
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post #484 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:56 PM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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She's said she'd like to go to counseling but she seems a little nervous about it perhaps because I've been pretty clear I wanted to talk about the possibility of infidelity.

She has never read more than friends... she's just very friendly. She has read very surprised when someone responded beyond her expectation. I said earlier that she didn't seem to understand why it bothered me but the truth is that one of the reasons she developed more care with her boundaries was that she got a couple of unexpected responses and got scared.
First, I might approach it as the evidence circumstantially looks like infidelity, and while you don't want to believe it about her and that your marriage has been good, your brain can't shut off the feeling of unease. You want to have a good strong marriage with her but this unease is preventing it. By taking this approach you are not accusing her of infidelity, and you are stating you want to have a marriage with her. But you are laying the problem in front of her to deal with it. Instead of you saying you'll just quietly keep it bottled up, you are telling her that she can't have a marriage with you until this problem is solved.

Secondly, as to her touching I think it may be explained by 5 Love Languages. Most men are very high on touch. I am, and when a woman touches me it is usually a bit uncomfortable (or was when I was married) because I took it as having a message attached. Your wife may not be like that at all, so when someone gives her a little touch on the shoulder she doesn't perceive a subtext communication. If you two haven't read "5 Love Languages" yet it might be worth reading it.
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post #485 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:01 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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I describe her, half jokingly, as a verbal ninja. We don't fight very often but when we do, it rarely ends in my favor unless I can purely appeal to morality or to what's best for the family. She's very good at debate and since we keep our conversations as civil as possible, I have to fight just to stay on point. That's one reason I think an MC would help. I need an outside observer to help me pick when she shifts...someone else in the room to tell me i'm not crazy when I think she's intentionally deflecting.
Two suggestions on this. First, the book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by M. Smith is a great resource to improve your verbal skills. It is far more than the title suggests. Your local bookstore may well have it in stock. I highly recommend it. Secondly, consider recording your conversations so you can go back. I wish I'd don that a number of times with my ex. All of a sudden she'd say something completely unexpected and stunning, which would leave me disarmed and confused. Later I'd wonder what she'd really said, and wondered if my recollections of the conversation were accurate. I also wondered how much I missed.
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post #486 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:02 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I see this as being about trust. How can the op trust his wife again if he knows she is hiding something? For those who say let it go and move on, how is he to trust her in the future if she is lying about the past? In a healthy marriage there has to be honesty.
He suspects she is lying but doesn't know for sure.

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post #487 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:06 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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I think you need to stop asking her, just drop it.

And do things like put a VAR in her vehicle, check out her computer, phone calls, etc. Next time you travel, have a PI watch her.

Basically, whether she has ever cheated or not, your marriage is over. You don't believe her. She is sticking to her story and there is a small chance that her story is true. If she is telling the truth, she will not put up with this much longer.

And you will never trust her again.

Sorry dude, I don't see a way for this to get better.
Yeah I think his last chance it to poly. She may not go for it. The marriage isn't going to survive this though. He needs to just tell her, he doesn't believe her she hasn't really been forthcoming because she is picking her words. She either poly's or he is done.

Last edited by sokillme; 03-21-2017 at 12:16 AM.
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post #488 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:09 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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I was an avid fan of the TV program "Castle". In one episode Castle was trying to find out how many men Beckett had been with. She looked at him and smiled and said, "Men, they want to know but they really don't want to know." If infidelity was happening now or recently I would say go for it. Find out what you want to know. Sometimes though, when what you seek is long in the past and especially when things are good and can continue to be good, it's just better to leave things as they are instead of creating a s--t storm and blowing everything up. I know because there was a time I didn't ask because it was long passed and all it would have accomplished would have been to create havoc in a marriage that was going great and has been great for the last 35 years. Many will say I was weak for not finding out the truth. They would be wrong. At the time I was a Special Forces soldier on an A-Team and knowing may have caused some man dire physical harm and I may never have looked at my wife the same way again. Sometimes, after much time has passed, you just don't need or should want to know. Just deal with the medical issue and drop the "I need to know" issue. Is this knowledge you seek really necessary to your well being or to the well being of your marriage? Our life is dictated by the choices we make and then we have to live with those choices. Chose wisely "Grasshopper". (Are you old enough to know who Grasshopper was?) I do wish you well.
Some people think living like that is worse.
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post #489 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:12 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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"I haven't! I said that last time we talked about this!"

"You still haven't looked me in the eye tonight and said ""I have never been with anyone but you""

Looks me in the eye, says firmly "There's no one else. There wasn't ever any one else"
So she didn't say "I have never been with anyone but you". She said stuff sort of like that and which implies it, but doesn't say it. "There's no one else" means she isn't boffing anyone else today. But what about 1 yr ago or 5 yrs ago? "There wasn't ever any one else" means she never considered leaving you to marry someone else. Or she never loved any one else like she loves you. But it doesn't mean she has never had sex with anyone else.

My wife used those same kind of skillful wordings which weren't what was asked for. Right down to the "I said it last time" even when she didn't use the precise words.

So if my wife had ever asked me if I'd cheated, I would have responded along the lines of "No, in the most expansive and inclusive ways, I have never cheated on you. No sex, no oral, no touching, no kissing, no ILYs, no love letters, no pictures, nothing". Yet your wife is using very narrow language in her denials. While it sounds good on the surface, it actually doesn't answer the broad question. Nobody has touched her genitals. Has she touched other people's genitals? Did she engage in anal sex?

She also seems to be combative, refusing to simply do what you've asked which is to look in your eyes and tell you she has not had any kind of sexual contact with any other person. I would communicate to her that this is not helping matters.
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post #490 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:24 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

Here is the thing, you seem very codependent. She knows this, this is probably why she was with you in the first place and why she doesn't tell the truth. She knows she can get away with it and there will be no consequences. This has probably been the dynamic from the start. Once again this fits the pattern that we see on here over and over. The fact that you are already telling her if she cheated you will be OK with that just shows there are no serious consequences for her. Why shouldn't she just lie to you, cheating is worse and you are quick to forgive.

I mean how hard is it to say. "Wife no more carefully worded sentences, I want you to tell me to my face you have not had any sexual contact with anyone since we got serious, that means kissing, fondling, any kind of penetrative sex period. Also I want you to tell me you never had an emotional affair with anyone."

If she gets mad, she gets mad, she will get over it or she won't but you won't get over this though. If she gets mad and doesn't say it to you my response would be. "I'm sorry but having a STD which from everything I have read most likely have to had happened within a 2 year period changes things. Unfortunately that is life, and that is where we are. I am surprised you don't understand that this would cause worry in anyone. This is not me being insecure this is me being logical and protecting myself. I have never questioned you about this before. I would expect you do the same and have offered a polygraph to give you the same peace I am looking for. Look I can tell I am not going to get over this unless you can tell me that and right now it looks like you can't. I guess it's time for me to asses if we have a future." Seems to me that is where you are at anyway.


Last edited by sokillme; 03-21-2017 at 10:44 AM.
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post #491 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 04:23 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

This may seem ridiculous but maybe she had an affair with her doctor.
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post #492 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 06:48 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
I think you need to stop asking her, just drop it.

And do things like put a VAR in her vehicle, check out her computer, phone calls, etc. Next time you travel, have a PI watch her.

Basically, whether she has ever cheated or not, your marriage is over. You don't believe her. She is sticking to her story and there is a small chance that her story is true. If she is telling the truth, she will not put up with this much longer.

And you will never trust her again.

Sorry dude, I don't see a way for this to get better.
Corroboration of her story. If she is telling the truth, and it checks our in MC and through snooping, it helps. If you catch her in lies....well then the discussion moves to why she lied, and "I can't believe you don't trust me" is no longer a defensible position.

But it is irrevocable. The marriage will never be the same again, sadly.
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post #493 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:51 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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I cant see that his wife would need to hide a sexual assault?
Have you ever been sexually assaulted? Not all people want to tell anyone. I didn’t tell my husband until we’d been together 10 years. (It happened before him). We have another member here who was sexually assaulted, told her husband and he considers it an affair. My husband has told me that what happened before him wasn’t his fault and had nothing to do with him. It’s not an easy thing to talk about, nor is it generally received well. Rape culture is alive and well in many people.

I'll get through this, one day at a time.
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post #494 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:04 AM
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Re: Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

Occam's razor :

Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

OP got an STD. OP only has had sex with his W. W gave OP STD. W has been unfaithful.

Simplest answer with the least assumptions.

Could OP be the small % that gets this non sexually. Yes, but again that's more assumptions and a more complicated answer.

Simplest answer is W has cheated.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."

- Benjamin Franklin
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post #495 of 671 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:01 AM
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Not sure what to do - Positive HPV test

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Last edited by blueinbr; 03-21-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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