Dumb question about "Knowing" - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Dumb question about "Knowing"

Something that has kind of tickled the back of my mind after being on this site and several others in regards to cheating.

I have seen many threads where the WS thought (or in their arrogance knew) the BS knew nothing of their dalliances.

When you dig deeper in tothreads where the BS announces their spouse has cheated, after many updates, a pattern always emerges.

Something showed up as a red flag, but the BS ignored or rather, due to ignorance or disbelief,was unable to perceive their spouse cheating.

I read a thread on another site where a woman had an affair.
She knew her BS didn't have any idea she had an affair,
The thread continued on with should she tell or not.
She eventually told.
However, the BS suspected about her affair. He was pretty much aware from nearly the first week.
So in the long run, he actually knew about her undiscoverable affair.

I wonder how many ws have thought they were slick and fooled their spouse only to be surprised to find out that the BS knew all along (or rather I should say suspected).

Not looking for a who or what answer.

Just wondering if anyone else has wondered this.


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If YES - You have chosen wisely!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by snerg View Post
Something that has kind of tickled the back of my mind after being on this site and several others in regards to cheating.

I have seen many threads where the WS thought (or in their arrogance knew) the BS knew nothing of their dalliances.

When you dig deeper in tothreads where the BS announces their spouse has cheated, after many updates, a pattern always emerges.

Something showed up as a red flag, but the BS ignored or rather, due to ignorance or disbelief,was unable to perceive their spouse cheating.

I read a thread on another site where a woman had an affair.
She knew her BS didn't have any idea she had an affair,
The thread continued on with should she tell or not.
She eventually told.
However, the BS suspected about her affair. He was pretty much aware from nearly the first week.
So in the long run, he actually knew about her undiscoverable affair.

I wonder how many ws have thought they were slick and fooled their spouse only to be surprised to find out that the BS knew all along (or rather I should say suspected).

Not looking for a who or what answer.

Just wondering if anyone else has wondered this.
When my wife started cheating I knew straight away because she had done it ten years before and behaved the same.She didn't really hide it to well and I cleaned out our bank account and never let her back home.She was working away from home when she had an affair with her boss.I got a friend to take a picture of her and him holding hands in a restaurant and sent them to all of our family and friends and his wife.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:55 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

Honestly, I think both compartmentalize and fool themselves even though they each know the other suspects something is going on.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 10:01 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

Over 90% of women get away with cheating, and over 80% of men, based on stats I've read. So, only about 5-20% are revealed or discovered. There may be suspicion in more cases, but there can also be suspicion where there is no cheating.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 10:24 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

I donít think so many BS actually know their spouse is having an actual affair so much as something is off, guts are feeling weird, spidey senses are tingling that something is amiss. We just donít always put 2 and 2 together.

3 years ago my husband had reconnected with an ex gf. Well, sheíd never really gone too far away, but their contact over the years while always there, wasnít always hot and heavy. It was there and it was uncomfortable, I didnít like it, but I was just made out to be a jealous, insecure wife so thatís kind of what I believed I was. So 3 years ago, my husband has a pass code on his phone suddenly. Heís staying up later than normal. When heís coming to bed at 2AM, Iím waking up (Iím a light sleeper) and by the time I drift back off Iím hearing his phone vibrate that heís getting a text (always between 2 and 230AM). I donít hear him answer the text, but I hear him receiving it and then I fall asleep. My gut is telling me something weird is going on. I donít suspect an affair. Something is just off. My spidey sense is picking up on this text at 2-230AM but I never thought about it being an EA. I figured it was a friend texting. But that late night text every night just seems weird, I just canít figure out why. This goes on for a couple of weeks. And then one night he leaves to go to WalMart, I go downstairs to use the computer and the Verizon website is up to the ďsend a text messageĒ screen, but no one is signed in. This is a a HUGE red flag for me and I start getting into the phone bill. 2 days later I finally figure out how to see the list of who he is texting online. Thereís a number with over 1600 text messages in a month. I google the area code and sure enough itís the town she lives in. We donít know anyone else in this town. The texts are morning til night, and yes 2-230AM. Usually sheís the last one to text at night, heís the first to text in the morning. I ask who the number is, before he answers he calls and talks to her for 10 minutes. Admits that itís her, later claims that 10 minute phone call was to tell her I knew that they had been talking and not to lie to me if I called her. LOL because I surely believe that.

So what Iím trying to say is, while I knew something was up, I couldnít put my finger on it and I didnít expect it to be an affair. Once I figured it all out, yes, it made sense. But thatís not to say I knew he was having an affair. He didnít really act any different towards me. The 2 consecutive times that heís cheated on me with her, he HAS acted differently. But the red flag that I pick up on every time is the passcode on the phone. There are no more late night texts because now he uses his work phone for communication and that stays in the kitchen. However, I think they had an agreement that they wouldnít text past 5PM unless he reached out to her first. The last two times heís become incredibly distant and mean, borderline hateful.

I'll get through this, one day at a time.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

This was me. I now know that suspicions I had either noted in a log or I've since remembered (for example, I remember getting suspicious about a particular selfie she took -- which ultimately turned out to be unrelated -- but knowing the date it was taken I now realize it lined up exactly with the start of the affair). It took me another two months almost to finally get confirmation, during which time I was growing increasingly paranoid and confused given the fact that I never though my wife was capable of this, but otherwise it followed this exact script.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillybeffandswiss View Post
Honestly, I think both compartmentalize and fool themselves even though they each know the other suspects something is going on.
This was exactly it. My wife is not stupid and while I don't think he's all that bright, he's smart enough. There were a lot of mental gymnastics involved in the work up to it, but at a certain point I think there was just an element of "we've been careful enough, nobody will know" and they ignored any further evidence to the contrary.

In truth, the steps they were taking WERE enough to eliminate the evidence/paper trail. But there's no way to eliminate the "emotional" trail of evidence that a long term spouse is likely to pick up on (even if said spouse, like me, is slow to acknowledge the truth). That's why I'm such an advocate of paying attention to your gut feeling. I'm convinced that sh*t is some kind of evolutionary magic...
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by snerg View Post
Something that has kind of tickled the back of my mind after being on this site and several others in regards to cheating.

I have seen many threads where the WS thought (or in their arrogance knew) the BS knew nothing of their dalliances.

When you dig deeper in tothreads where the BS announces their spouse has cheated, after many updates, a pattern always emerges.

Something showed up as a red flag, but the BS ignored or rather, due to ignorance or disbelief,was unable to perceive their spouse cheating.

I read a thread on another site where a woman had an affair.
She knew her BS didn't have any idea she had an affair,
The thread continued on with should she tell or not.
She eventually told.
However, the BS suspected about her affair. He was pretty much aware from nearly the first week.
So in the long run, he actually knew about her undiscoverable affair.

I wonder how many ws have thought they were slick and fooled their spouse only to be surprised to find out that the BS knew all along (or rather I should say suspected).

Not looking for a who or what answer.

Just wondering if anyone else has wondered this.
This is a fascinating subject. But I think there are reason for this. As one of those who was CLUELESS until I found non monogamy books in the trunk of her car, I have always been TOTALLY amazed at how some BH have had more red flags than a bull fight and ignored them. Sometimes in the past I have actually been "pissed" at some of these guys unconsciously for being so naive and ignorant.
How does anyone ignore the following
SUDDENLY LOCKING THE PHONE
SHAVING HER SNATCH OUT OF THE BLUE
COMING HOME AT 4 AM CONSTANTLY OR NOT AT ALL
CUTTING OFF SEX
FINDING THOUSANDS OF TEXTS
I could go on and on. And yet practically every day someone arrives here and still wonders if he has anything to worry about or totally ignored all of the above and more. The answer is denial, the BH's WORST ENEMY.

And at the other end of the extreme are those of us whose WW fall into the category of "relatively happy marriages or very happy marriages" where a wife cheats. our WW are able to totally compartmentalize what they are doing because its just fun and we will never find out. They are able to have sex with us, love the kids, go to all the social events, and carry on the "perfect" marriage.
much harder to catch, ann only me stumbling on to the books clued me in, just as Cam on this forum only got clued in by someone seeing them in public.

I guess that why I kind of trigger when I read a thread with all the red flags where BH is making all sorts of excuses for the wife, blaming himself, and playing ostrich. When you wife cuts off sex, does all of the above red flags, treats you like a doormat, how does anyone ignore that. I will never understand it.

I think the feeling of humiliation at not acting and recognizing what happened contributes a lot to the feeling of emasculation and paralysis when these guys arrive here in despair after watching this go on for months or longer.

Quite honestly that is why there needs to be differing tones of advice if you really want to help someone. A BH who arrives on a forum like this hours after discovering his wifes infidelity is totally different than a guy who arrives after six months of "denial:, and watching the tumor grow. if you regard infidelity like a cancer, your doctor would offer different advice if he found a bump the size of a pin versus a grapefruit.

As far as all the threads having the same things, not sure about that but you can almost bet that these threads that are on page 20 with no action taken are the type you describe where BH knew something but did nothing.

Sorry for the rant.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
This is a fascinating subject. But I think there are reason for this. As one of those who was CLUELESS until I found non monogamy books in the trunk of her car, I have always been TOTALLY amazed at how some BH have had more red flags than a bull fight and ignored them. Sometimes in the past I have actually been "pissed" at some of these guys unconsciously for being so naive and ignorant.
How does anyone ignore the following
SUDDENLY LOCKING THE PHONE
SHAVING HER SNATCH OUT OF THE BLUE
COMING HOME AT 4 AM CONSTANTLY OR NOT AT ALL
CUTTING OFF SEX
FINDING THOUSANDS OF TEXTS
I could go on and on. And yet practically every day someone arrives here and still wonders if he has anything to worry about or totally ignored all of the above and more. The answer is denial, the BH's WORST ENEMY.

And at the other end of the extreme are those of us whose WW fall into the category of "relatively happy marriages or very happy marriages" where a wife cheats. our WW are able to totally compartmentalize what they are doing because its just fun and we will never find out. They are able to have sex with us, love the kids, go to all the social events, and carry on the "perfect" marriage.
much harder to catch, ann only me stumbling on to the books clued me in, just as Cam on this forum only got clued in by someone seeing them in public.

I guess that why I kind of trigger when I read a thread with all the red flags where BH is making all sorts of excuses for the wife, blaming himself, and playing ostrich. When you wife cuts off sex, does all of the above red flags, treats you like a doormat, how does anyone ignore that. I will never understand it.

I think the feeling of humiliation at not acting and recognizing what happened contributes a lot to the feeling of emasculation and paralysis when these guys arrive here in despair after watching this go on for months or longer.

Quite honestly that is why there needs to be differing tones of advice if you really want to help someone. A BH who arrives on a forum like this hours after discovering his wifes infidelity is totally different than a guy who arrives after six months of "denial:, and watching the tumor grow. if you regard infidelity like a cancer, your doctor would offer different advice if he found a bump the size of a pin versus a grapefruit.

As far as all the threads having the same things, not sure about that but you can almost bet that these threads that are on page 20 with no action taken are the type you describe where BH knew something but did nothing.

Sorry for the rant.
I forgave my wife the first time but told her that was her last chance.She waited ten years before ****ing up,the other guy dumped her and they both got sacked.I knew immediately because she couldn't lie very well and came up with a stupid reason to stay overnight.I sent a friend who she didn't know to the hotel and he got pics on his phone of them having a romantic meal together,he was at the next table and they never knew he was taking photos
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

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I forgave my wife the first time but told her that was her last chance.She waited ten years before ****ing up,the other guy dumped her and they both got sacked.I knew immediately because she couldn't lie very well and came up with a stupid reason to stay overnight.I sent a friend who she didn't know to the hotel and he got pics on his phone of them having a romantic meal together,he was at the next table and they never knew he was taking photos
Are you healed enough to be able to laugh at their audacity (or rather incompetence) now?

All I could think of was the Dave Chapel line "gotcha B**ch" when I read your post.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:57 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

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Are you healed enough to be able to laugh at their audacity (or rather incompetence) now?

All I could think of was the Dave Chapel line "gotcha B**ch" when I read your post.
She told me that they had an issue with a co worker and had to stay overnight to sort it out.She was lying through her teeth and I knew it straight away.I live in Ireland and divorce is relatively new,she was living in my family home and left with nothing.No children under eighteen so no child support.Now she lives in a small apartment and looks like an old woman.I am dating a woman twelve years younger than me and she is loaded.I would never marry again though.

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 08:45 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

I always knew our relationship wasn't right, but needed PROOF that I was being cheated on. I was not going to blow up over nothing. I wish I had done more investigating beforehand though.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 09:00 AM
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Re: Dumb question about "Knowing"

I think it is a mix of situations. Some people do have the gut feeling something is wrong but don't figure out what it is. Some have good evidence staring them in the face but they make excuses for it. Yet others have no idea whatsoever until they walk in on their spouse in the act or someone gives them irrefutable proof. Many BS do say after they find out that there were signs of it but they didn't put the pieces together.
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