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post #46 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 04:49 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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Originally Posted by sidney2718 View Post
I like your point of view. When we have an aggrieved spouse here we start singing the old song about the affair was not the fault of the aggrieved spouse. No matter what, the betrayed spouse is innocent.

In fact this is only half true. If a TAM member points out that the wandering spouse warned the betrayed spouse that eating potato chips in bed was a deal breaker, we tell the betrayed that no, it is not their fault their spouse left.

Some folks have a higher tolerance for potato chips on the sheets than others. (I trust you all understand that "potato chips" is a stand in for some other fault such as beating the wandering spouse, going on long weekends with the guys and and no wives, or whatever.)

As Deirdra notes, the betrayed spouse often does, in fact, have some responsibility for what went on. And that helps doom the second marriage.
Um, not sure I meant it like that. lol I don't ever think that the betrayed spouse should be at fault for their spouse cheating. Cheating is a choice. But, I will say that it takes two to make a marriage work, and two to make it not work.

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post #47 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 10:47 AM
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Re: Second Marriages

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From what I've known and read this seems to be the path of every divorce. The result is rarely much better than keep a bad marriage going.
You continue to confuse the path with the destination.
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post #48 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 10:59 AM
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Re: Second Marriages

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You continue to confuse the path with the destination.
wha? The pathway leads to the destination....? One relates to the other.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #49 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:19 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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wha? The pathway leads to the destination....? One relates to the other.
Let me explain. @jb02157

Most guys (some gals too but rarely) suffer dire consequences in a divorce. They typically lose a lot of money and assets, they don't get to see their children much, they don't have much disposable income after paying support, and they go through a whole bunch of forced change and adjustment to a new life- which sucks but you seem to be forgetting that everything that happens in a divorce is temporary.

Relationships with children can often be rebuilt- sometimes not- but either way you adjust. Money lost during a divorce can be earned back again. That crappy apartment which is all you can afford can be upgraded after the support payments end.

A new partner can be found and a new relationship can be established. Sometimes when you meet someone new, by sharing expenses with them you can improve your standard of living before you even get out from under the divorce imposed financial constraints.

(In my case I live with my girlfriend who makes good money and owns her home - but I had enough money even after my own obligations and had a nice condo before I sold it after moving in with her).

That's the destination- happiness, financial security, new relationships.

All the other crap that is preventing you from pulling the plug on your failed marriage and the daily misery you often post about- that's the path to the destination and it doesn't go on forever.
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post #50 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:29 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

I know that everyone has baggage, but instead of thinking of it like that, I'd like to think of it more as learning experiences. I've learned a lot from my marriage, and if it doesn't work out, I won't hate him, and I don't think he'll hate me. Going forward, I would take those learning experiences into future relationships, and be more proactive when issues arise. Instead of fighting and arguing, then turning a blind eye, I would sit down and calmly discuss. If that didn't work to reach a conclusion that worked for us both, seeing a professional to get an issue resolved would be the next step. Instead of waiting years, building resentments, and letting the love recede to just thinking of a partner as a buddy or roommate.
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post #51 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:02 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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I've learned a lot from my marriage, and if it doesn't work out, I won't hate him, and I don't think he'll hate me.
@Ursula, people who get divorced don't typically hate the person because things didn't work out.

They hate each other because they become fighters in a ring grabbing for as much of the "marital assets and support" pie as they can possibly get.

Two people who used to be best friends are suddenly adversaries because they both want the same thing and there doesn't seem to be enough for both of them. Throw a few kids into the mix and a battle over custody of visitation and the seeds for intense conflict are planted.

I recall that even though things "weren't working out" in my marriage, we were still civil and even friendly in the beginning of the end. She said things like "I won't hurt you in the divorce, I just want to be able to live comfortably".

She refused to work during the divorce even though she had an LPN license, and at one point was demanding $13,000 per month in child and spousal support while driving a wedge between my children and myself by saying how cheap I was for not just handing it over without putting up a fight and making them struggle financially.

Things weren't too friendly after that. I don't like to use the word "hate" but I was getting close.
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post #52 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:11 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

@browser, yikes, that sounds like an awful and unfair situation! And, what you say is true; that couples will fight for shared assets, etc. in the event of a divorce. In our case, we're easy-peasy. We each look after our own finances, everything is in my name as it's my home; he never wanted his name put on anything. No kids, very little was purchased since marriage (bedroom suite which I'd happily let him have, treadmill, which I would like, his car which belongs to him). We also have a prenup, which includes things like my business startups, my dogs, his pension, etc. It all would go to the respective owner of those things. So yeah, we're an easy case, but it doesn't make it any less hard to wrap one's head around.
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post #53 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:18 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

@Ursula

It wasn't all that unfair, I make good money.

In fact, the divorce laws in my state changed right after my divorce was final and more specific guidelines and formulas were put in place to reduce discretion of the court which resulted in some really unfair and unpredictable rulings, and also when more strict guidelines are put in place there's less "wiggle room" and less for the two parties to fight about so the attorneys can't run the legal bills up so high. Attorneys rallied and lobbied against the guidelines and they always do when legislators try to put them into action- because they are greedy, selfish pigs who suck money out of their clients to pay for their yachts and vacation homes and private college educations for their children while us divorcing parties are lucky to be able to keep a roof over our heads. Sorry I went on a tangent there.

Anyway if I was to get divorced under those new guidelines she probably would have gotten something closer to what she was originally asking for. As it is, she got a lot but it wasn't that much.
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post #54 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:33 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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Originally Posted by browser View Post
Let me explain. @jb02157

Most guys (some gals too but rarely) suffer dire consequences in a divorce. They typically lose a lot of money and assets, they don't get to see their children much, they don't have much disposable income after paying support, and they go through a whole bunch of forced change and adjustment to a new life- which sucks but you seem to be forgetting that everything that happens in a divorce is temporary.

Relationships with children can often be rebuilt- sometimes not- but either way you adjust. Money lost during a divorce can be earned back again. That crappy apartment which is all you can afford can be upgraded after the support payments end.

A new partner can be found and a new relationship can be established. Sometimes when you meet someone new, by sharing expenses with them you can improve your standard of living before you even get out from under the divorce imposed financial constraints.

(In my case I live with my girlfriend who makes good money and owns her home - but I had enough money even after my own obligations and had a nice condo before I sold it after moving in with her).

That's the destination- happiness, financial security, new relationships.

All the other crap that is preventing you from pulling the plug on your failed marriage and the daily misery you often post about- that's the path to the destination and it doesn't go on forever.
I'm not sure if I agree. There is some things that absolutely do remain forever such as the financial consequences. I cannot live off of 30% of my income. I wouldn't even be able to live with 70% of my income. That's the facts. I refuse to live my life any lesser than I do now if divorced. I'm not going to penalize myself or my children for what my wife did. That's not negotiable. Does that impact the destination, yes. I do not think that right away or 5 or even 10 years from now the financial impact would go away. I would never be able to buy another home that would be acceptable to me. I simply do not agree that I would either be happy or financially stable in the future if I divorced. I've been over and over the numbers myself, with accountants and lawyers and the result is the same each time. I have maybe 10 more working years left. If everything gets taken away now I would never be able to build the amount I would need to finish my kids college and retire even at double my salary.

As far as new relationships go, that's something I've thought over and over about and each time the conclusion is that I would not want another relationship where I would have to risk this happening again to me. To me, it just isn't worth the risk. 70% of second marriages don't last. Those are odds I just don't like. I'm sure there's many many wonderful terrific women out there, but I'm not going to risk everything at a shot at a relationship with one. With my luck, I'd get stuck even worse than I did before.

I'm sure you don't agree with a word I've said along with probably 90% of TAMers but this is the world the way I see it and I really don't have many ways to play my cards now. I admit it's my fault for waiting too long, but I bet on rebuilding what we had and lost.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"

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post #55 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:46 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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I'm not sure if I agree. There is some things that absolutely do remain forever such as the financial consequences. I cannot live off of 30% of my income. I wouldn't even be able to live with 70% of my income. That's the facts. I refuse to live my life any lesser than I do now if divorced.
The support payments are temporary and the general trend of the courts is less support for shorter duration, something around 1/3 to 1/2 the marriage duration (unless your marriage is long duration and you live in a state that is prone to award permanent maintenance). So you'd have to tighten your belt for a period of time but not forever. And if you meet someone new who has money your financial situation will naturally improve.

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I'm not going to penalize myself or my children for what my wife did.
Dude your life is one of daily misery, you've posted this time and time again. You're ALREADY penalized from what your wife did, and continues to do. That will eventually take a toll, I think you underestimate the impact it will have over time, not only on you but on your kids too, unless they're completely shielded from the conflict and dysfunction which is unlikely. Kids are smarter than we think.

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I do not think that right away or 5 or even 10 years from now the financial impact would go away. I would never be able to buy another home that would be acceptable to me.
I obviously don't know your specifics or your finances so I will just have to take your word for it that you would be so close to broke and have so little to live on and your credit is so poor that you could never, ever buy a new house and get a mortgage. But having read many of your posts I'm going to wager a guess that you have a much more negatively skewed view than reality would suggest.

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I simply do not agree that I would either be happy or financially stable in the future if I divorced. I've been over and over the numbers myself, with accountants and lawyers and the result is the same each time. I have maybe 10 more working years left. If everything gets taken away now I would never be able to build the amount I would need to finish my kids college and retire even at double my salary.
Ok, so you did the numbers and you've had neutral third parties agree that your financial situation would be dire. So you're going to stay with this woman in misery for the rest of your life, because you like your house? As far as retirement goes, she'll get roughly half of your retirement fund, but then you wouldn't be paying to support her anymore. And again, although you can't bank on it, there are lots of available women in your age group that have their own retirement funds.

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As far as new relationships go, that's something I've thought over and over about and each time the conclusion is that I would not want another relationship where I would have to risk this happening again to me.
Well, you are your own worst enemy to simply dismiss the possibility of ever meeting someone else and getting involved. With that sort of self defeating attitude I understand why staying put makes the most sense to you, but it doesn't have to be that way.

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70% of second marriages don't last. Those are odds I just don't like.
Who says you have to ever get married again? I sure don't.

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Originally Posted by jb02157 View Post
I'm sure there's many many wonderful terrific women out there, but I'm not going to risk everything at a shot at a relationship with one. With my luck, I'd get stuck even worse than I did before.
Like I said, you're already the judge, jury, executioner, and victim of your own future. Isn't your avatar the main character from the Shawshank Redemption? If he thought like you do, he'd never have tried to escape, he'd just be an eternal prisoner.


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post #56 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:52 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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The support payments are temporary and the general trend of the courts is less support for shorter duration, something around 1/3 to 1/2 the marriage duration (unless your marriage is long duration and you live in a state that is prone to award permanent maintenance). So you'd have to tighten your belt for a period of time but not forever. And if you meet someone new who has money your financial situation will naturally improve.



Dude your life is one of daily misery, you've posted this time and time again. You're ALREADY penalized from what your wife did, and continues to do. That will eventually take a toll, I think you underestimate the impact it will have over time, not only on you but on your kids too, unless they're completely shielded from the conflict and dysfunction which is unlikely. Kids are smarter than we think.



I obviously don't know your specifics or your finances so I will just have to take your word for it that you would be so close to broke and have so little to live on and your credit is so poor that you could never, ever buy a new house and get a mortgage. But having read many of your posts I'm going to wager a guess that you have a much more negatively skewed view than reality would suggest.



Ok, so you did the numbers and you've had neutral third parties agree that your financial situation would be dire. So you're going to stay with this woman in misery for the rest of your life, because you like your house? As far as retirement goes, she'll get roughly half of your retirement fund, but then you wouldn't be paying to support her anymore. And again, although you can't bank on it, there are lots of available women in your age group that have their own retirement funds.



Well, you are your own worst enemy to simply dismiss the possibility of ever meeting someone else and getting involved. With that sort of self defeating attitude I understand why staying put makes the most sense to you, but it doesn't have to be that way.



Who says you have to ever get married again? I sure don't.



Like I said, you're already the judge, jury, executioner, and victim of your own future. Isn't your avatar from the shawshank redemption? If the main character thought like you do, he'd never have decided to escape, he'd just be an eternal prisoner.
I told you you wouldn't agree. You obviously look at things way differently than I do. I find no merit at all to any of your arguments.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #57 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:58 PM
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Re: Second Marriages

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I told you you wouldn't agree. You obviously look at things way differently than I do. I find no merit at all to any of your arguments.
This is sad. I can relate to where you are. I thought my divorce would ruin me financially, I didn't think there was any way I'd get through it unscathed. My anxiety was through the roof, I was so depressed it affected how I functioned on a daily basis. For a while I was medicated. I was in a deep dark hole and say no way out.

That was in 2006.

It took a few years but things started slowly turning around. 10 years later I'm in a really good place, with a great woman and just about clear of any remaining support obligations, with money in the bank and retirement about 10 years away.

Now your financial situation may not be as positive. I get that, but one thing is indisputable. Having the victim mentality will only work against you, regardless of what you choose to do or not do to improve your situation.

There are clearly things within your power to change that have nothing whatsoever to do with finances and everything to do with fear, which is what holds everyone back if they allow it to get the best of them.
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