Evidence of Affair, need advice - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Evidence of Affair, need advice

Crossposting this from the surviving infidelity subreddit for further perspective. Long story short, I've found evidence that my wife is having an affair. I've had a gut feeling for a while that something wasn't right, and there have been a few red flags that I've picked up on. This weekend, I found evidence that she's considered or has already engaged in an affair. There's no incontrovertible proof but I doubt I'm going to find any given the situation.

Backstory - We're both 30, married for 5 years, together for 7. Starting in February/March of last year we both got distant from one another. Both of us work in demanding careers with long hours and work was busy for both of us. I started to withdraw into myself due to the lack of physical intimacy from her (it was already a borderline dead bedroom situation at this point) and stopped meeting her emotional needs. I'm not entirely blameless here and I accept that. 2016 was a pretty **** year for our relationship.
In Late December we had a come to Jesus talk - she was considering divorce due to her needs not being met, "I love you but I'm not in love with you," etc. and I agreed I would work on fixing myself as a precursor to working the relationship. Starting getting **** done around the house, going out of my way to meet her needs, hitting the gym, visiting a counselor. She acknowledged all these changes as very positive and was very proud of me for making them. My life has done a complete 180 but she is still dragging her feet on being active in the marriage.

This weekend, I snooped and found some things that are pretty hard to deal with. Based on browsing history, in March of last year she began looking for apps that would allow someone to message in secret. A few months after that, she began browsing pages on sexting (many many articles for this). I have never been the recipient of a sext from her. I also found evidence of searches for apps and ways to hide photos on an iPhone. All of these searches usually coincided with google or facebook searches for a particular guy. Several articles for spicing up the bedroom, sex moves, sexual health at a time we weren't having intercourse. Also there are searches for articles on ****** ******* and other affair-related articles. In addition, this guy is married with two children. Found multiple searches for their school and school hours (?). In addition, found evidence that she was out a restaurant when she specifically had texted and said she was stuck at work and would be home late.

I don't think I'm ever gonna find definitive proof as I suspect that all communication is happening over apps that don't leave a paper trail. I suspect it probably began in March last year as a way for her to seek emotional fulfillment she wasn't getting from me and blossomed into a full blown emotional affair and probably physical affair as well.

I had already previously brought up my concerns regarding this guy in late January after I found a bunch of facebook searches for him (searching like 2-3 times a week for 6 months). She said it was just a crush (yeah, right). She got really angry with me violating her privacy, deleted all her browser history and facebook history, changed the password on her phone, stopped wearing her wedding rings for a couple days, and then came back and said she wanted to work on our relationship and felt hopeful for our future. Things had been better until this past weekend where she seems checked out again with regards to the marriage. I checked her browsing habits and she has been looking this guy up on facebook again every day for the last 4 days. Last thing before she went to bed last night and first thing after waking up today.

tl;dr - We have our first couples counseling session in a week. I don't know if I can sit on this info until then. I really thought we could give things a shot again and it would work out but it seems like she is more than happy having her needs met elsewhere. I don't know that trust could ever be rebuilt. I'm willing to wait until counseling but another part of me just wants to have this over and done with. The problem is that I have a super busy work week, and a business trip this upcoming weekend for four days and I just don't have time to deal with the fallout of a divorce this week. Need advice, support, hugs, criticism, whatever you want to throw my way.

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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Which would you find more stressful:

A. Knowing your marriage is over and you are enroute to divorce?

B. You kept your mouth closed and she is busy making plans for a rendezvous with her boyfriend?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:10 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

All I can say is get a friend to drive by the house a few times a day while you're away

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:17 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

This is a very tough situation to be in and I feel for you. What are your goals with her? Do you want to try to save the marriage or are you at the point that you are ready to end it? Or do you just want to get proof so you can make a more informed decision on what you want to do?
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Bananapeel,

I'm honestly not sure what my goals are. I go back and forth. I don't feel like this marriage can be saved because she's clearly still interested in him despite the progress we've made in the last few months. I would say I'd like more evidence to make the best informed decision possible.

*editing to add I've read the Standard Evidence Post and plan to use an iPhone backup recovery program on her phone the next time I have access to it.
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:27 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by throwaway9255 View Post
I don't feel like this marriage can be saved because she's clearly still interested in him despite the progress we've made in the last few months.

The first part of the sentence is very enlightened of you.

The second part of the sentence is very naive of you (if you'll pardon me saying so).

She is clearly leading you to think there has been progress, but in reality, there can be no progress as long as she is still in contact with her affair partner. It is quite simply, a rouse to placate you and lead you down one path while she continues with the OM. That is not real remorse, that is fake reconciliation.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

some things to remember

1. lots of marriages get too busy and spouses get stuck in the rat race and the marriage suffers as a result.
and they don't end up cheating. they stop and say "whoa, our marriage is suffering, we need to slow down and work to live, not live to work".

2. this tells me she was looking for love all in the wrong places.

3. trust your gut........yes she is cheating. and it's all on her, not your busy lives.

4. understand the lesson here for future marriage or serious relationships.........do not become workaholics at the expense of marriage.
the big house, the career aspirations and the dreams of early retirement are fine, but not at the expense of relationships.
good solid relationships and a great marriage are worth far more than gold or company awards and promotions

5. in spite of all the above, your wife was probably going to be a casualty even if you had not ignored the marriage.
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Lot of red flags for sure.

To me, this is a situation where it's likely that she's cheating; thus you have a very good chance of catching her - if you do full scale monitoring. If you come up with evidence that she can't dispute, you can put yourself in a much better position strategically and your choices will be clearer. You can feel confident in your reasons if you decide to D, or you'll know what you're trying to forgive if you consider R.

Make yourself an expert on discreetly monitoring her. You have several options. Reviewing her cell phone records, spyware on her phone, key logger on her computer, VAR in her car, GPS tracking, recovering her text messages, PI. You can get plenty of help here.

Good luck and keep posting.
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 11:02 AM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Depends on which evidence you want, and here's what I mean:

If you're looking for evidence that you can use to prove infidelity in court, you might have enough already, though you'd probably have to make the case that you found her browser history and whatever other evidence that you have on a computer or other device that you own or share with her. If you want more evidence of this type, you may have to hire a PI or catch her with someone else (and, ideally, take pictures) yourself.

If, however, all you want is proof that you can use to prove to yourself that you're not crazy and/or confront her, a VAR and/or GPS in her car (along with tracking her phone via the "Find My iPhone" and whatever apps you're looking to use for data recovery) should do the trick.

Also, if she backs up her phone via iTunes using a computer that you're able to access, you can run recover against the backup. Similarly, if she backs up her phone to iCloud AND you have the email address and password associated with her iCloud account, you can run recovery against the iCloud backups. Also note that doing either of these (or running recovery against the iPhone itself) could trigger an alert sent to her via email, so you'll want to be ready to intercept that.

If you have an iPhone yourself (which would be ideal), test any apps or methods against your own phone/account FIRST.

By the way, NEVER give up your sources to her (or anyone else that isn't your lawyer) unless it's something that you're disclosing to prove infidelity from a legal perspective. And even then, don't reveal how you know what you know until you absolutely have to.

Once you have what you need, be sure to expose the affair to OM's wife.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 11:38 AM
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Evidence of Affair, need advice

Yep. Doesn't sound good. Fwiw if my w was searching for another guy and removed her wedding ring I'd be done. And even though I have 30+ years with her - no infidelity.

The thing is - I trust her. I trust her to not cheat... but with those acts of disrespect I'd trust what she is saying - "I've moved on". Don't even start on the ILYBINILWY comment. That's definitive proof IMO

If it's advantages in court for more proof I'd pull out all stops with a PI or two. Otherwise it'd be D papers.

IF she came crawling back, sobbing, etc I MIGHT listen to her but your W did the opposite.

So are you going to believe what she's telling you, or not?

(BTW I rarely jump straight to D in my comments but you've presented a solid case IMO and frankly it sounds like you've made your decision)


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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:00 PM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

This does not look good. You have already voiced concerns, and it appears they have fallen on deaf ears. I hate to see the D option as the first option, however, in several of my clients' cases, the shock of the divorce and evidence piling up does cause a turn in the relationship. Whether it spurs her to end the A (if there is one-EA or PA), and commit to the marriage or it spurs her on to end the marriage, at least there will be an answer FWIW.

One hopes that you will get your answer.
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:45 PM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Since you are short on time as you say, hire a PI to follow her while you are gone. At your work print off the divorce papers needed to file and fill out some sections. At your MC meeting hand her the papers and tell her she is obsessed with OM and she should go to be with him. Also have a friend contact the OM's wife while you are at therapy. Tell your wife that OM's wife is being filled in now about the affair. Then walk out, go home and begin moving her things to a spare room.

When your wife gets home tell her she has been moved to the guest room, and she has until midnight to never contact or search for OM again. Tell her if she can do this you won't list OM and adultery as reasons for your divorce. This could shock her into admission, but in order to save your marriage you have to be willing to lose it. Then implement the 180. Good luck.

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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

She is having an affair or had an affair. Either way she is thinking fondly or the OM. You have enough to divorce now but you may want more evidence to strengthen your resolve and explain yourself to friends and family. What you have is solid but she may call you crazy. Then you will spend time debating with her about how much circumstantial evidence is enough. Plus she will be more careful if you confront with what you have now. You need better evidence to avoid all that.

The post by Gus is great. The only thing I could add is to have her methods of communication monitored BEFORE you confront. That way you can know what she tells her friends or OM about your concerns.

As Gus said never give up your sources. Think of them as your spies. Don’t rat them out because once you do they’re gone. If you find out something that you can only know because of a VAR then you can’t show that you know it unless you come up with another way you found out. Like someone saw them. Don’t give up the VAR. Never tell anyone about the VAR. I will disagree with Gus a little here. Telling your lawyer depends on the state. Some will have a legal duty to tell you not to but then they know. I would only tell your lawyer if you could use it in court.

Also do what I call a “soft confront.” Do not present all your evidence. People make the mistake of spilling their guts because it feels good to get it all out. Your wife knows what she did. All you are doing is telling her all you know so she can make up a story that fits. Leave some evidence out. For example if you find two hotel receipts then tell her that you found one. Then you can see how truthful she is.

HERE IS A GOOD LINK:
Standard Evidence Post

Last edited by Graywolf2; 03-13-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 01:14 PM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

Sounds like you need more evidence. I agree with the previous post about getting a VAR and PI so you can get enough evidence to expose. All you have now are internet searches that confirm what your gut was telling you- something is off. BUT it could be a one-sided crush, in which case, you can turn it around if you want to remain married. But only if she isn't in an affair, which would require a different approach.

She might just be fantasizing about having an affair with this guy and he has no clue. Or it could be an EA/PA.

If she's fantasizing and wishing for something else, it could be because your marriage needs help and there are ways to fall back in love. But you need to know what you're dealing with first.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 01:21 PM
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Re: Evidence of Affair, need advice

I'd find a way to secretly contact OM's wife and compare notes.

You definitely need to put a couple VARs around her, mainly in the car and the bedroom.

You'll find your smoking gun soon. You have a sexless marriage at the young age of 30. Eventually someone will get their needs met. She's now just starting the prime of her sexual years. You're the one who should be benefiting.
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