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post #316 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 10:51 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner-Davis’s Divorce Busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say “I Love You”.
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold – just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it’s the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done — that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That’s not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it’s a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That’s when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what’s going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you’re doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.



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post #317 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 11:14 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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She invited me over for a little party they're having tonight. I don't know if I want to go. Maybe I should just afraid I'm going to be sad and mopey the whole time and ruin the vibe. This hurt is killing me.
You are supposed to be doing the 180, you are going out with your friends tonight, sorry you cannot make it!
Ddude you are not following the advice on here, stop the moping and do the 180 now
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post #318 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 11:37 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.
She will reverse this position before it's over. You can bank on it, and you would do well to brace yourself for an assault to financially gouge you for all she can.

Don't take anything for granted, and let your lawyer do her job.
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post #319 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 12:04 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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I don't understand.... When will I accept that she's gone?
It's a process rather than an event. The important thing is your adversary has a head start on you and in order to salvage your dignity and expedite healing you need to be really diligent in following the 180. You loved her and that is hard to reverse, but you must for your own sake.

I advise you to not be petty or add to the drama. You're the adult here, not her, thus you need to control the flow of events by maintaining distance from her and not allowing her to engage you in trivia she can use to manipulate you. Speaking with her is like wrestling a pig... it just gets you dirty and the pig likes it. You can bank on the fact that EVERYTHING she will say to you is contrived to manipulate you, so just don't go there with her. Be polite, but deflect her asap.

Just let her go. If you must speak with her just say something like this: Wife, I have loved you faithfully for these years and thus I want you to follow your heart. I think you and the other guy deserve each other and I won't stand in your way. Please move in with him asap and allow our divorce to proceed quickly so we can each get on with our lives. Good luck.

The reality is they do deserve each other, and you deserve to get rid of her. If she reverses her stance and wants you back you will be very wise to tell her that she already made her decision and what's done can't be undone.
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post #320 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 12:49 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

It's a sales term. Sometimes your offer mets every need and is best priced best offer yet the client stalls. Why?

Their are many on line directories that either list the therapist with their qualifications or offer comments about them. Also search using his name to see if he is published. Finally call him and ask for the titles of several books he finds very insightful.

PS: my iPad is having a lot of problems with this site. I tried to reapond yes to your request but it did not go though.

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
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post #321 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 12:51 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Wrong thread, sorry

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
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post #322 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 01:20 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Originally Posted by ddude23 View Post
I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.

Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?
She was a phony. Her love for you was really about herself. She loved what you did for her. Now she found someone else who does for her. You really had one chance, when she told you she had feelings for the other guy you would have needed to tell her it's over and then filed. That may have shocked her out if it but seeing the kind of person you would have ended up with would you really want her. You can't nice them back, you can't do anything because they behave like monsters. They lose all respect for themselves, they degrade themselves. Seriously anyone with any objective mindset can see what she is doing is truly evil. Yet she is running whole heatedly towards it. I mean even if her love for you is over you would think she would just have some human decency and kindness. Some form of loyalty for the years you built together. But most of them don't. This is why I repeatedly call them garbage. They so easily discard people who have been loyal to them for bells and whistles. They don't even get the concept. When you do that you end up left with very shallow relationships. Why anyone would want to be with anyone who could be so evil is beyond me.

The truth is though at some point this was always going to happen because she lacked the character it takes to have a long term relationship.

Just watch where she ends up in 10 years. She will be used up and lonely. She will probably have many boyfriends but no real love. She is broken dude. She is a broken human being. She has been raised to care about one person herself you were an extension of herself, now that other guy is. Sadly there seems to be a whole hell of a lot of women like this. About one thread a day. I don't envy young men out there. The men are just as bad, but some of the women have a special kind of cruelty.

I suspect finding out she is barren had something to do with it as well, that probably change her whole entire long term thinking. Maybe she married you because she thought you would be a good father. Now that there is no chance for that she wants something else maybe its money. Who knows.

Two hard lessons in life to learn are, there are cruel evil people in this world, and some of them are charming and attractive. They can hide their true nature very well. And the other is in this life everything eventually ends. This is now the time for this relationship to end for you. Embrace it and move to the next phase of your life.

Last edited by sokillme; 03-18-2017 at 01:24 AM.
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post #323 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 02:47 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Quote:
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I suggest the Op ignore this advice which is clearly coming from an emotional place and will cause more problems than it will ever solve.

There's a lot of reckless advice being thrown out on this thread. I hope the Op thinks twice before following any of it.
Hence, I thought I said that he should get advice from a lawyer before doing so. I called my police dept.

By dragging his feet, she may get an idea to FILE against him to force him out of the house.

Supporting those who want to divorce or reconcile. Not every relationship is the same.
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post #324 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 03:18 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

ddude23 : Yeah, went through that too. Days after the poop hit the fan, "we" were talking mediation and co-parenting. She too, got crap advice from the OM - even threatened me that his father would represent her. (his dad is a REAL lawyer) But she lied about that. I'm not sure why - but it was to generally get me to do things. Instead, I filed papers against her.
She threatened to pull the trigger... But I actually *DID* when I filed the paperwork, etc.

She is offering you a quick and easy deal, she wants to be DONE QUICK. I offered a deal for the wife to make the court go as fast as possible.
Talk to you sister about it TODAY. Schedule mediation tomorrow. sign it, get it notarized, etc - whatever and let the door smack her in the butt.

It will take about 1-2 months for the worst part. It does get better. If you are in a major city, locate a co-dependency meeting - its kind of like AA. It's called CODA

*SHE* is in a fog. It lasts for months - depending on factors. You can worry about maybe getting her back after the divorce - but if you do proper 180, why bother? She wants his kids - he is family-ready. And you get access to millions of women, who can have children. It sucks, it hurts. But you need to move quickly.

You are SO YOUNG. 33 years old. You can date chicks 21+ easily. I was dating / having sex with women in their 20s even into my 40s. I was 40 when I meet my future wife at 25yrs old. I'm 47 with a 3yr old... I'm enjoying being a dad. You could be missing out. Your cheating wife has given you a painful gift. Take it. she gets a chunk of change and *IS GONE*... no alimony, no constant court dates or contacts about money or kids. She is likely thinking that too... Take a bit out of your flesh and leave you forever.

Supporting those who want to divorce or reconcile. Not every relationship is the same.
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post #325 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 06:33 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Originally Posted by ddude23 View Post
She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.
Have your sister draw up papers that reflect her current offers and see if she will sign them. Assuming , of course your sister also thinks your getting a good deal. The longer she has to think and be coached by other people the more she will want.



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post #326 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 06:38 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.

Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?
OP,
I offer this as a means for you to possibly understand, to the extent possible, what is going on in your W's mind or not going on as the case may be. You must realize that the overwhelming majority of cheaters are mentally underdeveloped. As you process thought you extract bits of data from various portions of your brain and compile it and extrapolate, projecting possible outcomes. This is the normal, mature way to makes decisions. If the projected outcome is negative, harmful, destructive or what have you the decision is made NOT to do or say the thing.

A large part of that process for developed intellects is the consideration of the projected outcome on others, this is empathy, being able to place yourself into someone else's situation and imagine how they would feel and to actually care about their feelings. Another part is self preservation, determining how the outcome will affect you and your future.

Now this is difficult but try to imagine if your underdeveloped brain, due to lack of synaptic connections and storage limitations, did not have ready access to the data or if the stored data was simply not there, never being put into long term storage What then? As a decision was contemplated what would you use to base any projected outcome on? If there is insufficient data then it is impossible that the resultant outcome will not be erroneous.

It may help you to think of it this way. Imagine yourself at Disneyworld, a place you may visit with your new W and child but I digress. Now imagine you, as the adult, are contemplating safety, schedule, financial considerations, weather concerns and so on. For you the park is not as simple as just having fun. Now consider the child. The child has no thought for the considerations you are pondering, they simply see the fun. They get off of one ride and immediately run to the next as you call for them to "slow down". Their thoughts are only about the next fun ride.

As the day progresses they suddenly stop in mid stride on their way to another ride and declare "I have to go to the bathroom". So you accommodate them. In another little while they pause again and say "I'm hungry", to which you respond "what do you want to eat" and they answer "I don't know" so you, as the adult, decide on the most prudent lunch menu.

Do you really expect the child to answer you by saying "well I have been expending a lot of energy, burning a lot of calories so I feel a meal consisting of a mixture of carbohydrates and protein, with a small amount of sugar would best facilitate my activities for the rest of the day as I continue to experience the opportunities for enjoyment that this park has to offer"? To expect such would be delusional for they are driven by instinct rather than cognitive thought. They go by feelings.

In this scenario you are the adult, your W is the child and life is the amusement park. To expect more from her would be inviting disappointment, she is not capable. For a time you were the "fun and exciting" ride, no pun intended, but now she has become tired of you and is off, running, to the next exciting ride. She has no concern for her safety, her future, her health but rather only knows that she is now "hungry" for more fun.

Now the next ride has less to offer than the ride she is on but that is not part of her thought process, she only thinks "it is new and different and will be better than this ride". No, or very very little, contemplative thought has gone into this "decision" and the outcome is therefore erroneous but she does not see it, her eyes are fixed on that next ride. Soon she will tire of that ride and her focus will shift to a new one.

Sometimes the cognitive process is dependent on more time and experience. In other words, sometimes the WS does process more of the available data as time and the experience of the new ride combine and they "come to their senses" and want to go back to the initial ride not understanding how badly they damaged that ride on their departure. I do not believe that your W is capable of that level of thought and will "run" from ride to ride throughout her time in Disneyworld.

If you do not find this helpful simply ignore it. I wish you well as you proceed.

Peace and long life
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post #327 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 07:22 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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OP,
I offer this as a means for you to possibly understand, to the extent possible, what is going on in your W's mind or not going on as the case may be. You must realize that the overwhelming majority of cheaters are mentally underdeveloped. As you process thought you extract bits of data from various portions of your brain and compile it and extrapolate, projecting possible outcomes. This is the normal, mature way to makes decisions. If the projected outcome is negative, harmful, destructive or what have you the decision is made NOT to do or say the thing.

A large part of that process for developed intellects is the consideration of the projected outcome on others, this is empathy, being able to place yourself into someone else's situation and imagine how they would feel and to actually care about their feelings. Another part is self preservation, determining how the outcome will affect you and your future.

Now this is difficult but try to imagine if your underdeveloped brain, due to lack of synaptic connections and storage limitations, did not have ready access to the data or if the stored data was simply not there, never being put into long term storage What then? As a decision was contemplated what would you use to base any projected outcome on? If there is insufficient data then it is impossible that the resultant outcome will not be erroneous.

It may help you to think of it this way. Imagine yourself at Disneyworld, a place you may visit with your new W and child but I digress. Now imagine you, as the adult, are contemplating safety, schedule, financial considerations, weather concerns and so on. For you the park is not as simple as just having fun. Now consider the child. The child has no thought for the considerations you are pondering, they simply see the fun. They get off of one ride and immediately run to the next as you call for them to "slow down". Their thoughts are only about the next fun ride.

As the day progresses they suddenly stop in mid stride on their way to another ride and declare "I have to go to the bathroom". So you accommodate them. In another little while they pause again and say "I'm hungry", to which you respond "what do you want to eat" and they answer "I don't know" so you, as the adult, decide on the most prudent lunch menu.

Do you really expect the child to answer you by saying "well I have been expending a lot of energy, burning a lot of calories so I feel a meal consisting of a mixture of carbohydrates and protein, with a small amount of sugar would best facilitate my activities for the rest of the day as I continue to experience the opportunities for enjoyment that this park has to offer"? To expect such would be delusional for they are driven by instinct rather than cognitive thought. They go by feelings.

In this scenario you are the adult, your W is the child and life is the amusement park. To expect more from her would be inviting disappointment, she is not capable. For a time you were the "fun and exciting" ride, no pun intended, but now she has become tired of you and is off, running, to the next exciting ride. She has no concern for her safety, her future, her health but rather only knows that she is now "hungry" for more fun.

Now the next ride has less to offer than the ride she is on but that is not part of her thought process, she only thinks "it is new and different and will be better than this ride". No, or very very little, contemplative thought has gone into this "decision" and the outcome is therefore erroneous but she does not see it, her eyes are fixed on that next ride. Soon she will tire of that ride and her focus will shift to a new one.

Sometimes the cognitive process is dependent on more time and experience. In other words, sometimes the WS does process more of the available data as time and the experience of the new ride combine and they "come to their senses" and want to go back to the initial ride not understanding how badly they damaged that ride on their departure. I do not believe that your W is capable of that level of thought and will "run" from ride to ride throughout her time in Disneyworld.

If you do not find this helpful simply ignore it. I wish you well as you proceed.


Great analogy.


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post #328 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Yeah my sister is going to draw up papers with the ageeement we bad in place about the money. We have to talk about the retirement accounts though and other things. All she said was she won't ask for spousal support and home equity.

She didn't come home last night. Of course I shouldn't care, but I feel like ****. I want to get everything moving so I can get out of this hell. She is adamant that she wants mediation. I want to get everything signed. Should I just contact her and tell her what we're dividing and how we are proceeding so I can get papers signed? I don't want to wait all weekened for her to change her mind.
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post #329 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 07:31 AM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.

Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?
Dude,

There is nothing to really understand that is going to help you. What has happened here is not unique. Most betrayed spouses get blindsided and are asking the same questions. Her behavior has been going on for going on a half year, and if she was the way you describe all during that time all it means is she was able to compartmentalize it and justify it because as she told you she did not love you like you loved her.
If she was showing any signs of remorse and wanting to stay with you, the "why" might matter. Right now, all the analysis of her mental state does nothing to get you protected financially and get you out of this bad situation, which is going to get unfortunately worse if you have to stay in that house and watch her "date" her boyfriend every night. Your only focus right now needs to be on ending that situation.
She is going to continue with this guy, and if for some reason it does not work out, most likely if it is within a reasonable time period she will try to lure you back in since she does not make that much money. Hopefully, you will not be fooled twice.

You have a sister who is on your team and is legally qualified to help you. my friend, that is a big advantage versus others who struggle to even afford an attorney. If OM has three kids or whatever, unless he makes a lot of money, it is unlikely he is going to bankroll her legal efforts. But listen to your sister because if I understand mediation correctly, the mediator will try to make it "fair", which means she probably is entitled to more than she says she wants.

Stop engaging her and stop hanging around the house brooding about what she is doing. yes it is hard, but you have to do it. We can't do it for you. You will get through this.
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post #330 of 613 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 08:12 AM
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Dude - couple things

1. Ignore her. Never try to have a reasonable conversation with an unreasonable person. Right now her head is filled with cats and you will go crazy trying to figure out what she is thinking. So stop! There is no point in having any discussion with her about anything with the marriage. Pretty evident she doesn't care about you so why bother trying to show her you are hurt? She intentionally betrayed you dude. This wasn't an accident. So wise up!

2. If she is willing to basically walk away - TAKE IT! Get the divorce done NOW. If you wait, and her life turns to crap, who do you think she will blame? Herself? Haha, yeah right! If 6 months from now you are still married to her, you could very likely be stuck in a divorce where she gets a lawyer who demands it all! You can always remarry her later if you both choose to reconcile. I am telling you - this is a gift!!!

Went through it personally, and I didn't want a divorce at all. Fortunately I had a great lawyer who explained the same thing to me and it saved my life. My cheating ex didn't even hire a lawyer. 3 years later she constantly brings up how she got screwed and how I got everything. That's right, I did!

Save yourself! Forget the OM, forget your traitorous wife that conned you. Play along and get the divorce done now. Agree with her about her choices and put the pedal to the metal!!!!!
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