World has been turned upside down in a day. - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
Do you think this goes for emotional affairs too? I do think part of upholding boundaries is making sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations or disrespectful situations. If a husband claims he has strong values and morals and would never physically cheat, does that mean his wife should be ok with her husband texting privately and/or spending time with other women without her around? Or that a wife should be trusted to hang out with other men without her husband around? After all, the OP's wife says it never got physical. She just developed feelings for the OM, and the OP is devastated. I would be too, even if my husband upheld his strong boundaries and never touched the OW.
I think if you're hanging around someone of the opposite sex, and texting privately etc, then you've already crossed boundaries. It's simple - ask yourself "would my spouse be totally 100% OK with what I'm doing?". If the answer is anything but an unequivocal "yes", you shouldn't be doing it, your boundaries are weak and you're betraying your spouse.

To answer the first question - emotional affairs are affairs.

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post #92 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:50 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Let me get this straight - I dispel an assertion Harley made in his book with proof of my own, and you threaten to ban me? I was responding to a post that directly referenced something Harley laid out as fact in his book - so totally on topic - proved with my own experience it's categorically untrue, and you threaten me?
Speaking as a Moderator:

Please let this serve as an example of what not to do when a moderator is polite enough to warn you for a clear violation of the rules.

Stay on subject, folks. Save the debate for its own thread.

Now back to Ddude.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #93 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:12 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Don't ever be someone else's second choice.

You don't even have kids.

You only have one question for her. Does she want the divorce to be mediated, fast, amicable, and inexpensive, or does she want to make a fight out of it.

Dr. Harley would say..

>




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(just kidding!)
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post #94 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:00 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

The minute she refused to give up contact with her boyfriend was the minute she chose him over you and your marriage. Your focus now, however painful, is to get yourself out of infidelity. Get yourself out of this marriage that now involves three people courtesy of your wife.

MC while the affair is still active is a waste of time and money.

She is asking you to sit like a trained dog while SHE decides what your future will be. Don't do that. Take charge of your future. Tell her she is free to follow her feelings, but you will not wait on her to decide. You should talk to your sister about divorce. That may shock your wife out of this or it may not. But at least you will have your answer.

The best advice I have ever heard is to let the wayward spouse go. Don't argue, don't beg, don't let them see you sad, just let them go. Focus on your life without them in it.
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post #95 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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The minute she refused to give up contact with her boyfriend was the minute she chose him over you and your marriage. Your focus now, however painful, is to get yourself out of infidelity. Get yourself out of this marriage that now involves three people courtesy of your wife.

MC while the affair is still active is a waste of time and money.

She is asking you to sit like a trained dog while SHE decides what your future will be. Don't do that. Take charge of your future. Tell her she is free to follow her feelings, but you will not wait on her to decide. You should talk to your sister about divorce. That may shock your wife out of this or it may not. But at least you will have your answer.

The best advice I have ever heard is to let the wayward spouse go. Don't argue, don't beg, don't let them see you sad, just let them go. Focus on your life without them in it.
Dude,

I am going to tell you again. Read the above. Not one word to you that mentions anything about giving up her new boyfriend. Stop trying to guess what she is thinking.

It's not complicated. DO YOU WANT TO BE MARRIED TO A WIFE WITH A BOYFRIEND????? If the answer to that is NO, THEN SHE EITHER ACCEPTS THAT AND ENDS THIS AFFAIR NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF AFFAIR IT IS, OR YOU DIVORCE OR YOU ALLOW AN OPEN MARRIAGE.

Figuring out your marriage comes AFTER you gat out of infidelity, not while she continues to cheat. Now by now they have their plan figured out on how she is going to try to keep you in limbo. You need to destroy that plan
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post #96 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:09 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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You need to destroy that plan
Not if he's going to hand her divorce papers and move on with his life and find a woman who is worthy of his trust, love and affection.

She sure isn't.

What kind of a woman says to her husband "I can't decide between you or him, give me time to decide".

If nothing else, she's rather selfish.
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post #97 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:17 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
If you do walk out of the counseling session due to blame shifting, make sure you are not angry or emotional when you do so.

Look at the counselor and say:

"It is unfortunate that my wife has called me in here to justify why it was okay for her to open herself emotionally and sexually with another man. I will not live in infidelity. She either immediately breaks contact 100%, permanently, forever, with the other man, and takes steps to show she can be a trustworthy partner again, or the marriage ends. This is not a negotiation. Every day that passes in which she continues in her affair reduces the likelihood of my forgiveness."

Draw your line in the sand. Hold that line; no wiggling, no excuses, no gaslighting, no blameshifting. If she will not agree to that, you consult an attorney, file for divorce, and have her served at her place of employment as that is where the affair occurred.
If I could love a post, I would LOVE this one.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

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post #98 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:39 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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Originally Posted by moth-into-flame View Post
I don't get this mentality - forcing an affair to stop doesn't solve the problem. Forcing someone's hand to stop their horrible behavior doesn't make the behavior go away, or make them somehow come around, or stop being a cheater. If you want to burn down an affair for the sake of burning it down - to prevent them from enjoying their devious, cruel, disgusting behavior, by all means. But shutting it down will not solve the problem - which is that your spouse doesn't love you anymore, that they are by nature a liar, cruel, narcissistic, devious, deceitful and willing to do anything to anyone to get what they want, when they want it. Shutting down an affair may kill the affair (probably not), but it will not change the nature of the cheater.
@moth-into-flame,

I'd realize it's several pages later, and I'm answering your question because I suspect the OP may also be asking himself this--in other words "How in the world could exposing possibly be helpful? Tha'ts crazy!"

So first, let's just be clear that if you want to divorce, and infidelity is a deal-breaker period...the marriage was killed by the disloyal spouse and it is DEAD...then that is a choice that has both a benefit and a cost, just like every other choice. In that instance, exposure does not possible good, other than to inform some people so that the loyal spouse has some support. Thus, if it's DONE and that's that...the loyal might tell his/her own family or their mentor/pastor or best friend so they have someone who can give them wise counsel and emotional reinforcement.

But if the loyal spouse WANTS A CHANCE AT reconciliation, that literally can never, EVER happen while the affair is active. Thus, ending the affair becomes focus #1. End the affair at all costs. Again, this is a choice that has both a benefit and a cost, just like every other choice. It is like a last ditch attempt to save the marriage. There is maybe a 5-10% chance it may work, because affairs thrive in secrecy and very often die in the light of day. So the idea-hope-concept is to expose it as ADULTERY to his family, her family, his siblings, her siblings, pastor/minister/priest (spiritual guide), marriage-friendly friends--and risk the "anger" of the disloyal in order to essentially smack them upside the head and bring them to their senses. A marriage can survive anger--it can not survive ongoing adultery. So that is part 1--end the adultery. Part 2 would have to be that disloyal does come to their senses AND CHANGES OF THEIR OWN ACCORD.

See, very often people forget about that second part. Sure, it's possible to end the affair by embarrassing the **** out of the AP and disloyal, but that doesn't automatically mean that the disloyal all-of-a-sudden is going to "stop being unfaithful" and "start being faithful." To rebuild the marriage you can't just stop the poor behavior! You have to also/simultaneously start HEALTHY behavior. And that means that the disloyal has to want it and has to be the one to pursue changing who they are from the inside. At the same time, the loyal has to be willing to put up with all that! And that is a HUGE gift! If someone can do that, they are quite literally a hero!

So the answer is this: this is a last-ditch attempt. If the affair continues, the marriage has 0% chance to survive. If the affair at least ends, without the influence of the AP, there is maybe a 5% possibility the disloyal MIGHT come to their senses. If they can come to their senses, it is at least within the realm of possibility that they may be willing to identify their own weaknesses and face their demons and change. If they do not come to their senses, they'll likely still defend their choices out of pride--being unable to admit they were wrong. I'd say about 95% are too proud to change even when they come to their senses, and that number is conservative.

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The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this! * Weightlifter's Evidence Gathering Post for Newbies * The Man Up Nice Guy Reference
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post #99 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:47 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Ugh. So many triggers. Sorry you're here.

At this point, you're future together depends on what you will and will not tolerate. A 3rd entity in a marriage is a deal breaker. But further, you're wife needs to take a deep look inside to see why she has acted so selfishly.

I'm almost 30 days from my d-day and my wife still is minimizing her sh*t.

I'm praying for you, bro. Buckle up. It's a nasty ride.
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post #100 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:54 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

Calmly tell your wife today, "Wife, that's great that you're going to see a counselor to help you decide if you want your boyfriend, or if you want your husband. While you do that, I'm going to my lawyer to have divorce papers drawn up, because I don't want a wife who broke her vows to her husband and who has a boyfriend."

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post #101 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:03 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.

My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


With all due respect it's not her decision to divorce. It's yours at this point.

You will get lots of advice in many different forms. The first thing that you must do is tell her "I am being abused. I will not be in infidelity for one second longer. You go unconditionally no contact and drop that class or you will be served divorce papers on Tuesday"

- if she agrees then she must have over all passwords to all electronic devices and accounts. Snapchat must be deleted.
- You will get his name and contact information. Atleast 50% of "divorced" boyfriends are actually married.
- DO NOT GIVE HER HER PHONE BACK YET. Run Dr Fone on it to recover deleted texts.
- DO NOT GIVE HER HER PHONE BACK YET. Determine if her boyfriend is married and then expose it to his wife BEFORE HE HAS HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE UP A COVER STORY.


Listen, if you actually want to start feeling good you need to take ACTION. One foot in front of the other. Go read Sharpshooter's message. For every small foot you put in front of the other you are EMPOWERING YOURSELF. Right now you are feeling like crap because the punches keep coming and you have no way of getting out of the way. Do exactly what I describe above tonight tonight TONIGHT and you will feel better. If you do not then I will donate $1000 to the charity of your choice.

Please please please, we don't want to see you flail around. We are here to help. That is why we are here.

----
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post #102 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:21 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

I just want to add a note. You have seen and you will see more comments telling you to file for divorce, but it's not like divorce is the only option people recommend. Instead, it's the best way to help yourself be strong and hold the upper hand. You can always drop the divorce paper on the way. Don't quickly go to reconciliation and counselling when all conditions haven't been met. That's the biggest mistake in your situation.

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post #103 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:27 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

My advice is to pack
A ton of her clothes in a garbage bag and take them to the dance studio and tell her lover you need to put them in his car publicly. Then I would ask her for the keys to your house. (Everyone here knows you can't force her out of the house but you can make one helluva point)
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post #104 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

DO NOT confront the OM....omg, this isn't a high school prom. lol

I'd not continue counseling if she is still seeing this guy, and if she is still seeing this guy and still ''confused''...then, I'd end the marriage, or at least separate so you can get some space and think clearly. Counseling won't help your wife's character flaws, and she will blame you for not being as good as the OM (not wording it like that of course), I'm guessing? I don't think it's worth it, honestly.

I'm against reconciliation with cheaters, personally, because you don't need to settle. No one ever needs to settle for a cheater in their relationship, that is how I see it. That the BS is settling for someone who thinks nothing of lying and humiliating them.

Best of luck to you with this, but please...stand up for yourself, and don't let her hurt you anymore. You can't control her, but you can control to the level that you let her continue hurting you.

I have some respect in that she confessed this to you...she could have kept you in the dark forever, and you could have found out on your own. Not that it makes it better, but it shows she has been feeling guilty.
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post #105 of 612 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:56 PM
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Re: World has been turned upside down in a day.

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...

My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.
@ddude23 - Take advantage of having your sister available for emotional and legal advice (and I hope you disclose everything that's going on). Unless your relationship is strained, you can't beat having a sister. She'll have your back!
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