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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #91 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BS with long time update

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Trigger this far out

Longterm recovery

Red flag

successful rugsweep?

Read in order. If you click on a name after the @ you will bring up the user's profile page. Also when posting if you use the @StillSearching it will send them a notification.
It does sound like River Rat and I have a lot in common. I've only been married 24 years now. I feel to talk to him, if that is what your getting at, may not be all that helpful to me. Is that what this post is about?

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post #92 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 10:17 PM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Seems like a lot of the guys here that are cheated on work in IT or software.

Why is that? What's the common trait?
A propensity for debugging/troubleshooting combined with a stubborn refusal to accept that the app/environment you've spent years building is a steaming pile of crap, though mostly because you've chosen a crap language/hardware platform.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #93 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 10:51 PM
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Re: BS with long time update

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One thing that comes back to me every few months happened at the very first MC meeting. He asked us each "What are you most afraid of?"
I said "Losing my marriage and children"
She said "That he wakes up and realizes things and leaves me."
And that's how you get your self-respect back. You can absolutely get it back if you want to. Who is to say she hasn't been cheating while on the road on business trips. Don't make excuses about staying for the kids, and then staying for money (business). You sound very codependent and afraid to give up the good sex. Your wife has less integrity than a $20 crack *****, so your decision to stay and suffer the psychological torture is all on you. Learn from River Rat; get your balls back from inside her purse, staple them back on, and move on with your life. All men must have a measure of self-respect. You, Drifter777, River Rat, and MajDeath all need to get together for a beer sometime.
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post #94 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 11:26 PM
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Re: BS with long time update

I think people in those fields are more likely to go to online forums. Reddit has many people in those jobs.
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post #95 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 11:45 PM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Everything you have said are things I have said in one post or another on here. I also stayed and consider it easily the worst mistake of my life.

I always failed to understand is why so many men, myself included, who chose to stay with WW end up regretting that decision and become strong advocates for divorce. Recently I read some research regarding human inertia and I really connected with it. This is a great article and I encourage everyone to read it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...s-life-inertia

The "force" that made the biggest impact on me was this:

if our needs have not been adequately met in childhood, for example, if we grew up in an emotionally chaotic family, then our need for love and security becomes a propulsion system that drives us powerfully, but down the wrong path. We will need to let go of our unhealthy needs and reconnect with our healthy ones, so that we can finally power our life inertia with a propulsion system of our own choosing.

The very notion of "life inertia" just feels right to me. There are more of these inertia forces that are equally powerful but suffice it to say that many people are terrified of change. To me this explains why many men choose to try reconciliation after their initial reaction. The horror of their wife screwing another man is simply less than the terror of making a dramatic change to their life. Over time a man can become more enlightened and realize that this life inertia is something that he CAN change. That the prison he is living in is truly of his own doing. Lots of these guys decide to end the marriage but probably more of them choose - again - to just find a way to live with it. Like it's safer choosing the devil you know. A big part of the reason these guys would still stay is that over the time between d-day and that day he realizes staying was a mistake a whole lot more family & financial entanglements have developed. This gives him tangible support for just continuing to ride it out.

The time to leave is d-day. Don't waste time trying to reconcile. At best reconciliation is a long, painful process for both BH and WW and it often ends in divorce anyway or BH simply pretending he will "get over it". End the marriage and start fresh - it's much better for both of you.
I get not wanting to leave because of fear (not really but at least can see why it may seem easier) but what explains them so passively taking the crap and still being so meek about it. So many write about the crap they have to eat like its filet mignon. For instance some of the people who advocate for others to also settle and be in the same kind of trapped lives?

I mean if I decided to stay lets say for the kids, I am almost positive I would cheat and probably do it in the most painful way possible, and gaslight the hell out of it on purpose I might add. I would turn into a truly awful despicable human being. My first priority would be to kill every inch of my love for this person with fire as quickly as possible. Our marriage at that point would be detente, an ice cold business partnership. This is why I know I could never R. It's not in my nature.

I think it's more than fear of change, it's the belief that you don't deserve better. There is none of the, if someone punches me, I will stab them back, which is in my opinion a healthy feeling, though it should not be acted upon. That feeling is what helped me leave my cheater. It's the school yard bully syndrome. A lot of these guys that stay are kind of the same as the kid that keeps getting punched in school. They never learned to fight back. That seems to be another big part of what is missing.
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post #96 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:11 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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I guess I have a deep aversion to grouping people in general and "mens only" clubs in particular, but curious to know why you both feel so strongly about this? When I met with my husband's AP's husband to talk over what we both knew about the affair, I was very conscious of how similar our feelings and states of mind were. There was an almost alarming degree of mutual empathy.

I see that each of us are unique, but can share experiences and backgrounds that enable us to identify with one another outside of ourselves. For example, I would expect to have more in common (in my understanding of infidelity) with a BH who came from a similar cultural background than a BW who came from a culture that saw marriage in a very different way to mine. Out of interest, how would either of you respond to a man asking for advice as a BH with a WH?
Maybe the difference isn't in the feelings of being cheated on, but the feelings about what you are looking for in a partner of the opposite sex. Personally I think the similarities outweigh the differences by a great margin. But I do think when it comes to R men and women have some differences in how the affair affects how they think of themselves as it pertains to their gender and how they think they live up to their ideals. If you get what I am saying.

In the end I don't really think it matters much as far as advice given. So a women doubts is she is pretty, and a man doubts if he is masculine enough. That is kind of different, but only in the sense that the genders have different things they want from one another and themselves.

A great difference has to do with paternity though. Paternity fraud is a special kind of hell only men go through.

I think a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that even today when it comes to the sexes, generally the norm is, women are supposed to be chased, but men have to win their wives. So in this dynamic it is always the man is active and the women who is passive. I think that also has something to do with it.

Maybe is some ways that makes it worse on the woman as if you think of the stereotype an attractive women always will have suitors, but for a man to cheat he has to be out there trying to win his affair partner. Active vs passive. In reality it doesn't work that way, but that is still how we perceive each other.
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post #97 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:19 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Originally Posted by Quality View Post
I don't find it surprising the TAM members in 2002 found your story fake considering Chris launched this forum January 24, 2007.

Besides, the whole "I have a good relationship with my wife but I would have been a lot happier had I left in 2002" therefore all you all should "get a lawyer ~ get a D ~ get on with your life ~ be happy" after your supposedly former wayward wife went to counseling with you just a couple of times and then proceeded to keep cheating with the OM and have 3 additional OM's thereafter despite you watching her "like a hawk" just sounds absolutely unbelievable.


Most marriages reconcile and, more often than not, the next person to actually have an affair is the betrayed spouse. If the Wayward spouse cheats again ~~ you divorce. There's also no sense staying with an unrepentant wayward spouse. A betrayed spouse that stays with a serial cheating spouse after 3 or 4 affairs really shouldn't be in the relationship advice business.

I'm sorry for your story if it's true, but I'm happily recovered two decades and my wife and I have many other couples recover too. Divorce probably would have been the correct choice for you, in hindsight, but you should have known that fact 14 years ago, so applying your 15 years of resentment onto everyone's wayward spouse is a little bit over the top.
Here he comes to save he day!! And as usual he doesn't use logic for rebuttals nope first like of attack is the persons credibility and character. Quality you really are not.
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post #98 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 12:24 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Originally Posted by 225985 View Post
Seems like a lot of the guys here that are cheated on work in IT or software.

Why is that? What's the common trait?
I suspect people who work in software are more apt to post on a message board. Remember message boards are about 75% of were they get technical help and information. It's really a part of the culture.
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post #99 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 01:46 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
I mean if I decided to stay lets say for the kids, I am almost positive I would cheat and probably do it in the most painful way possible, and gaslight the hell out of it on purpose I might add. I would turn into a truly awful despicable human being. My first priority would be to kill every inch of my love for this person with fire as quickly as possible. Our marriage at that point would be detente, an ice cold business partnership. This is why I know I could never R. It's not in my nature.
This above is completely a wayward mindset. That your fidelity/character/morality is dependent upon another person. It's the same mindset many waywards use while justifying and rationalizing their own affairs. It's also consistent with the theory that waywards make the worst betrayed spouses ever. it's so often "not their nature" and "they know they could never recover". I know your theories are all figurative since you've never experienced actual marital infidelity so you've never had to make any of these choices in real life but maybe as you grow older and more experienced you'll come to understand that much like you didn't discard and end your relationship with your own wayward father, many people are likewise capable of forgiveness and understanding of their longterm spouses with whom they share a rich history of love and respect {albeit a wayward period} and with whom they often share children, bank accounts, mortgages, etc. For your sake, since your fidelity, as you state, is so situational, I hope your wife finds you redeemable should you ever feel she deserves to be cheated on at any point in time down the road.


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I think it's more than fear of change, it's the belief that you don't deserve better. There is none of the, if someone punches me, I will stab them back, which is in my opinion a healthy feeling, though it should not be acted upon. That feeling is what helped me leave my cheater. It's the school yard bully syndrome. A lot of these guys that stay are kind of the same as the kid that keeps getting punched in school. They never learned to fight back. That seems to be another big part of what is missing.
Ahhhh, the wayward battlecry of entitlement ~~ "I deserve better". None of us are getting what we actually deserve {biblically speaking}.

I deserve whatever MORE God sees fit to provide me. He's already saved me from death at the Cross and I'm not a proponent of the prosperity gospel where I get to self declare who I am in Him and wish/anoint myself royalty, an apostle or a prophet. Instead "what I deserve" will result from who He is within me and the choices I make in counsel with the Holy Spirit inside me. The upside? The fruit of the spirit is not fear but rather love, joy, peace, FOREBEARANCE, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV). But that's just my actual experienced having recovered my loving marriage two decades now. I've been very fortunate and though my wife and I both changed a lot, God gets all the credit.

Jesus saw fit to provide us with a right to divorce for adultery if one chooses. There is no requirement to divorce. It's up to each of us what we can bear or forgive in this life or not. Some persons can't do it and some can. There's nothing wrong with either but God hates divorce and we know Jesus would want us to try as He is forgiveness and modeled forgiveness for us throughout His life {and death} here on earth. Sure some unwisely stay married in the face of unrepentance and fail to address and overcome the sin, conflicts, immaturity and continued abuse but, likewise, there are many others who divorce too quickly and then come to regret a hastily made decision and forever second guess whether there might have been a chance to fix it. The issue really becomes about discerning the best, most God pleasing, path for each individual person as they experience it. Helping them sort through the emotions and feelings that cloud good judgment over time so they can arrive at the absolute truth about the likelihood of redemption, repentance, restoration and reconciliation in any given situation and actually decide for themselves what they choose to bear or forgive as they see fit for THEIR LIVES.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #100 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 02:16 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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Here he comes to save he day!! And as usual he doesn't use logic for rebuttals nope first like of attack is the persons credibility and character. Quality you really are not.
The evidence suggests that the OP appears to be riverrat.

That is either a fact or not a fact that rebutting with logic or lllogic will never change.


I then presumed the posters sad story may be truthful and provided a logical rebuttal which can be summarized that just because he sucked at reconciliation and shouldn't have recovered doesn't negate the possibility of a great recovery in any, let alone, every situation and his thesis that every one should file ~ be happy ~ is as ridiculous as me claiming that since I recovered wonderfully, that EVERYONE should recover {or even try to recover} wonderfully.

But then again, I'm just a cowering co-dependent weak betrayed husband too afraid to seek out all the better I deserve from life posting completely out of my cognitive dissonance trying to make myself feel better about my obviously miserable soul sucking choices to forgive my wife and let her get away with adultery so who am I to contradict your astute logical rebuttals and overall ability to avoid ridiculous attacks on poster's credibility and character?


I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #101 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BS with long time update

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The evidence suggests that the OP appears to be riverrat.

That is either a fact or not a fact that rebutting with logic or lllogic will never change.


I then presumed the posters sad story may be truthful and provided a logical rebuttal which can be summarized that just because he sucked at reconciliation and shouldn't have recovered doesn't negate the possibility of a great recovery in any, let alone, every situation and his thesis that every one should file ~ be happy ~ is as ridiculous as me claiming that since I recovered wonderfully, that EVERYONE should recover {or even try to recover} wonderfully.

But then again, I'm just a cowering co-dependent weak betrayed husband too afraid to seek out all the better I deserve from life posting completely out of my cognitive dissonance trying to make myself feel better about my obviously miserable soul sucking choices to forgive my wife and let her get away with adultery so who am I to contradict your astute logical rebuttals and overall ability to avoid ridiculous attacks on poster's credibility and character?
I won't say this again. I am not River Rat.
I have read some of his posts and am not that miserable.
I do have a good relationship with my wife.
I came here to share my experience or 15 years of recovery and where it lead me.
I don't think I sucked at reconciliation. I'm still married 24 years now.
Great recovery? That's a farce. Good luck.
I sense by your attitude and skepticism of a stranger that you might be one to defect the reality of your marriage to others.

Your condescending sarcasm is lost in your arrogance.

Maybe you should use your experience to help me understand how it made your marriage great?
I'm here to learn as well.

Last edited by StillSearching; 03-24-2017 at 07:58 AM.
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post #102 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:12 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

OP,

You mentioned your WW was involved in work A's. Were all her OM's co-workers ?

How did you find out about her A's, specifically the first one.

I ask the above because a LOT of the cheating we see here seem to be work related and any insight you might have along those lines my be useful.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."

- Benjamin Franklin
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post #103 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BS with long time update

I came here to share my insight. I knew what waits in the shadows and still I came.
To me it is important.

Suffering IS the human condition
We are all here to do it, and become better people as a result. That's not say we should not avoid it.
Reconciliation intensifies suffering
Reconciliation makes suffering more frequent
Reconciliation extends the duration of suffering
Your marriage will never be the same. Stronger? Better? what does that really mean?
My experience is different, every ones life experience is different.
I say reduce your suffering.
Start a new life as soon as you can.
You may only have one. Don't be me.
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post #104 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:57 AM
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Re: BS with long time update

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If you are still in the marriage are you sure you are not making the same one over and over again?
Possibly, but not necessarily. As I posted originally, life changes occur over 10 years ... what I thought was a good decision 10 years ago, may not look so good in the rear view mirror with the benefit of hindsight, but I can't go back to THEN and remake that decision. Also, as we age, priorities change. At this point in my life, I'm 3.5 years away from retirement. I've worked nearly 40 years to get here and I have real plans for that time that I'm not willing to chuck just to attempt a "do over" of a 10 year old mistake at this point in my life.

Much like StillSearching, I'm not dealing with a horrible, or even bad, situation. If I were, we wouldn't even be discussing this, but in fact, we have a very comfortable life that however, is "less than" what it could have been. I'm also not nearly as invested in the M as I was 10 years ago, which has lead to a 180 degree power shift in the M. Whoever said, "The one who cares the least in a relationship, holds the power" was SPOT ON.
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post #105 of 277 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BS with long time update

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Originally Posted by barbados View Post
OP,

You mentioned your WW was involved in work A's. Were all her OM's co-workers ?

How did you find out about her A's, specifically the first one.

I ask the above because a LOT of the cheating we see here seem to be work related and any insight you might have along those lines my be useful.
Were all her OM's co-workers ? Two from work. The other was a EA from old facebook friend.

How did you find out about her A's, specifically the first one. I came home from picking up my kids. I was gone 1 1/2 days. I went to have sex with her and she had marks on her private parts and stomach. I asked her if she did that to herself. She said "No." My heart stopped. She confessed a one night fling with stranger at a party, but said there was no penetration. That was the start of a very long painful road. I believe that that was the first day infidelity. Second one, she went to ALT for work could not be reached by phone for 18 hours. Told me she was in the hotel bar drinking with a friend. Found out there was not hotel bar. She came home, never confessed. Never told me where she was. When with to GYN Dr. made her get STD tested. came back clean.

I ask the above because a LOT of the cheating we see here seem to be work related and any insight you might have along those lines my be useful. The numbers suggest most are. Work affairs are very hard to find out. Get to know her work friends. She will tend to avoid introducing you to her lover. Watch her body language at work get together's. No girls night out with work friends. No after work group dinners. Check her phone when she sleeps. She may tend not to delete late night chats til morning. VAR of course. It's paramount to know and understand your wife's childhood history.
Most importantly be the confident man you were that she feel in love with and dated. That will keep from straying in the first place.
"Your not who I married" don't be that guy.
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