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post #106 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 08:19 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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I'm not twisting myself in a pretzel to conform to his interests and I don't think this affair is my fault at all. This was a wake up call to me though that we really have absolutely nothing in common and I don't ever try to involve myself in his interests when, to his credit, he really does involve himself in mine.

For her it's easy to be fun when you have no kids to worry about. I realized that I spent so much time in survival mode. Wake up, manage kids and all that comes with it, the household, a marriage, a job, and then just trying to make it to the finish line of bed at the end of the day, frazzled and exhausted. In trying to survive all my obligations, making time for each other and I made no effort to do anything with him beyond my todo list and parenting. That's not me when we were dating. I tried all sorts of things just because it meant time together. He never stopped, even when things were bad. He definitely went 3/4 of the way to my 1/4. Changing that is something I need to do. It's not me conforming or losing myself, it's a basic fact in the dynamic of our marriage. It's not good.

With her husband I'm not surprised I got the response I did. I sent him the evidence but he's a really closed off, brash guy. He doesn't like me or my husband. I didn't expect him to be a resource really. I don't want to get into a war of words with him because, really, he has no control over what she does. What's the point of burning him down in an email fight over something he has no control of? She's her own women for better or worse and I have only so much energy for so many battles. I'd rather focus on mine than trying to send him on his.

Thank you for the support guys. It's hard to talk to people IRL. I feel like most of them don't want to help or support me, they just want gossip from the horses mouth to discuss over the water cooler. I don't trust anybody at this point. The thing I can't shake is if so many people knew or suspected, why would they come to me now for details and to give sympathy? Wouldn't they have done it earlier if they cared as opposed to wanting to spread gossip? At least with my husband I know where stuff stands because I can lay out what I need and my expectations and set a pathway for accountability. I can't with other people. I don't want to add chasing down gossip to my list of concerns.

In that way I wish I'd kept it quiet. I didn't realize so much of the focus and attention would come back on me. Silly, right?
Only after I filed for divorce did I find out that everyone but me knew that my husband was cheating. Even a couple of my close female friends knew. One of them told me that they suspect as much since his car was always parked overnight at the home of some nurse who lived down the street from her. My husband was an MD doing his residency. He was telling me that he was at the hospital all the time... clearly he was not.

But why didn't she tell me before I filed? Whey didn't she tell me every morning when we walked for 4 miles after dropping our children off at school? There were others who told me similar things. I could not be friends with anyone of them again after knowing that they knew so much for so long and just kept quiet about it.

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post #107 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 08:21 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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There are a lot of husbands out there, myself included, who wish their wives would have this kind of revelation. I think you're on the right track. I know I can almost never convince my wife to engage in any of the things I like to do. You end up feeling lonely and like you're not really on the same team. About the most we do "together" is go out to dinner. But none of the really fun stuff. None of what I would consider the core parts of my self identity.
I suspect that there are a lot of women out there who feel the same way about their husbands. They wish he'd do things together with them, things that they enjoy. Both men and women tend to get bogged down in work and family after marriage and forget about doing those things that made them attractive to their spouse when they were dating.
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post #108 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 08:41 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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At this point the extended pain comes in not trying and divorcing. This way I can say I tried to make it work. The guilt would haunt me forever if I didn't.
A counselor told me she sees a lot of people who fight for the marriage but eventually divorce. They almost always say they stayed too long, but that is probably a good thing because they know they did all they could. When there are children and other complications involved, the negatives to divorce are real. It is worth making the effort.

Moderation is the key here. Give it a good solid effort, but don't drag it out if it becomes clear he is not truly in the marriage. That is probably the difficult thing to judge, when there is no more reason to hope for a successful reconciliation.

Best of luck to you.

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post #109 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 08:44 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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I'm trying to find more we can have in common. I've tried to dive into his passions (board games, video games) and have him teach me things, but I feel like it's frustrating to him so I stopped. I asked him today to teach me a few simple games and when I started to irritate him, I backed off. I'm trying to find other ways to connect with him. It's hard. We are making plans to go out, that helps.

I work but I only work part time around his schedule because we can't afford daycare for two kids. My job is just basic retail stuff, nothing really interesting. Just something I could get that had flexible hours.
Just to be clear, there are two separate issues here. One is recovering from his betrayal, the other is building a new relationship with him. You cannot ignore either one if you are to have a successful reconciliation. Yes, you are early in the process, but I just wanted to be sure you don't gloss over the affair in your quest to build a good new marriage.
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post #110 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

I'm certainly not glossing over the affair, but as the counselor said, I'm only control of myself and my actions and reactions in the marriage. Instead of focusing on all he should be doing and controlling that, I should do things that I can control that will help move the process along either to rebuilding the relationship. One of them is identifying things I want to improve to see if I can improve them and if I can do it in a way that shows I'm open to reconciling when he takes ownership for his stuff.

He said one of the things that hurts during reconciliation is a complacency that the betrayed spouse takes on, where they feel that the response to everything is "well yeah, but you had an affair." He said an important exercise for me that will show I'm in a place where I can move forward is by trying to fix my end and see if putting in the work is tinged with the resentment of "well you had an affair."

Honestly it's harder than I thought. There's been more than once where I feel like I can use that as an excuse to not try. But every time I do that, I'm telling him I say I can move past it but I can't, and I'm not dealing with my resentment which means I can't move past it either. Like the counselor said, I can't let what he did that was awful turn into an excuse I willingly lean on because then we will never move forward.

Getting to a spot where I can take him back was easy but getting to a spot where I can start to think about how move on is really darn hard. It just controls my thoughts all the time it feels like. I don't want it to dominate me and how I behave myself but that's so much easier said than done.

A lot of what's happened is really sinking in. I don't regret begging him to stay or trying to make it work at all. I really don't. But thinking of all the work is starting to make me feel, I don't know. Anxious? Cagey? It's hard to describe. It's more depressing than feeling overwhelmed but not as awful as feeling defeated.

Before what was making me crazy was the sex. Him touching her and her touching him and all that just made me ill. Now it's strange. That doesn't bother me half as much as the idea they were genuinely intimate on a deeper level.

Before we got married, I had a history sexually. It wasn't like a shocking number, but it wasn't nothing. Some of those were encounters that didn't mean much on an emotional level beyond friendships (a true FWB sort of thing), it was just young me experimenting with my sexual nature. He only had 2 partners (unless we count oral too, then it was 3), one of whom was me and he's a year older than I am. With a religious background, he didn't want to experiment sexually despite having a strong drive unless he was in a committed relationship that was marriage-bound.

So sex in a FWB situation, I get how that doesn't tug on you emotionally. It's still sex which isn't ok, but in the context of an affair, it's not as hard an issue to resolve for me mentally as sex with emotion behind it. Knowing that he was 24 with only 2-3 partners because he wanted sex to mean something and knowing he had sex with someone else, that's yanking on me mentally. There's sex, which is sex, then there's making love. One is way easier and way less scary to face than the other.

I want to ask him what it all meant but I'm scared this is where trust issues leak in. Whatever he says, I won't believe. If he said he didn't love her, then I'll think it's a lie because I know his conditions for having sex. If he says he did, I'll think it an unintentional lie built from the affair fog and rewriting our history to something bleaker than it was.

Sorry for the ramble. Like I said, I have nobody to talk this out with that I trust. I feel like everybody wants gossip or front row seats to him or me or her or all of us falling on our faces.
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post #111 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 10:42 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

Fairchild,

I get what you are saying about just sex vs sex+love. There is a huge difference.

But there are a few things that you might want to contemplate.

Are his feelings for her really love? I don't think so. She was not filling all of his emotional needs.

Marriage Builders calls it the love bank. Most people in marriage have a partially filled love bank because no one person can fill all of another person's needs. so generally there is about 3/4's of the love bank filled. Now along comes the affair partner and a relationship slowly develops. The AP is now filling that last 1/4 of the love bank... or 1/4 of his emotional needs.

Now he's in an emotional high we call the affair fog.

If you were to kick him out, the affair would die off pretty quickly. Why? Because you would no longer be filling the 3/4's of his love bank. Now he would be relying on her to do that. And that was not what she signed up for. Only about 3% of affair last very long at all once the couple is in a position to depend on each other only to meet each other's needs.

An affair is a fantasy that is built on and requires that the spouse continue to be in the picture. That's why people work so hard to keep affairs hidden. On some level they know that the affair is just a fantasy. They need their spouse.

All studies that I have seen, men rarely leave their wife for an affair partner. It's because it's their wife who they need/love.
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post #112 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

There's what I think and there's what he thinks and what I think doesn't matter until he realizes it too. I think it's 100% affair fog. I don't know that he'd say the same. I could say it until I'm purple, but until he realizes it, it doesn't matter what I know or you know or anybody else knows.

If I were to kick him out I don't know if it would end or not but I do know he wouldn't come back. He says he had girlfriends pull a game of "relationship chicken" with him and it instantly turned him off. I believe that too since the girl before me, the other girl he slept with, told him to commit or she'd break up with him. He said he couldn't right then so she dumped him and he said that killed any chance at a future they had. I almost made the same mistake and I saw how pushing him to the door in the hopes he'd crawl back almost blew everything up. Considering our trust issues, I can't risk it.

Even then, I also know the affair would go on for at least awhile and I couldn't take him back after throwing him out knowing I gave him unfettered access to her and is only back now because I'm his in case it doesn't work plan. I don't want him back after he gets it out of his system or it falls apart. It feels too much like putting the marriage on pause so he can explore and then picking up again after his options have run out. I'm not his choice then, even if he does come crawling back. I'm his backup plan because it's easier to go back than start over alone.

Plus the mental stuff that is have to shovel through while our marriage was paused would be just too much for me to even deal with. Especially if he goes over thinking and planning us being done and that's his new forever they enter into financial obligations together, like an apartment together or God forbid a pregnancy.

I can deal with a slip up and a correction, even if I force the ball rolling on the correction. An all out pause that's basically a breakup where he puts their life on a trial basis to see if it'll hold water or not and wandering back if it doesn't? It wouldn't matter how remorseful he was. I couldn't do it.

This really is the best option figuring in what I know about him and what my own limits are. I'd rather he says in a year he didn't want to end his affair but I forced him to and now he's starting to see through the fog into reality and eventually maybe he's glad for the tough love, than him saying in a year I kicked him loose and he tried it and it didn't work and he wants to come back. Or worse, I kicked him loose and now we are over regardless because I gave up first and didn't want to try and the ember that's clearly there in him now that's willing to try is totally squashed.
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post #113 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

And the other thing, I get what you're saying that I'm filling 3/4 of the tank and she's filling 1/4 and when she has to fill it all up she'll bolt because that's not what she signed up for.

It what if it is what she signed up for?

I still don't know if this was a plan between both of them, my husband's response to being caught and avoiding consequences, something that he was doing in the hopes she would eventually do to, or something else. I haven't heard from her at all and I haven't asked him because we are only supposed to tackle triggering issues in front of the counselor until I can get my negative self talk and self defeating monologue under control. I don't k is what their investment in each other was, just what his lack of investment in us was. He said he was leaving for her, but I'm not sure what her circumstances were. Ready and waiting? Leaving after he left? Empty promise she thought she'd keep but couldn't? Empty promise she had no intention of keeping?

I hate thinking about it because it leads me in mental circles, but I only know what one half of the plan was, and even then only very superficially. I don't know the whole plan. I feel like it shouldn't matter, but it does. If she had no intention of truly being with him, yes it would die quickly. But if she did?

I guess it doesn't matter because as soon as I kick him out, he's not coming back. Even if she didn't intend on leaving.
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post #114 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 11:44 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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And the other thing, I get what you're saying that I'm filling 3/4 of the tank and she's filling 1/4 and when she has to fill it all up she'll bolt because that's not what she signed up for.

It what if it is what she signed up for?
The affair is formed on the existing condition.. that she met the 1/4 of his needs. That is the reality of it. It's like banking an applesauce cake and leaving out the applauses... you can call it an applesauce cake all you want after it's baked, but thee ain't no apple sauce in that cake. (I use this exampled because I did this once as a teen... left the applesauce out of the applesauce cake.) This is why 97% of affairs never make it in the long run.

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I still don't know if this was a plan between both of them, my husband's response to being caught and avoiding consequences, something that he was doing in the hopes she would eventually do to, or something else. I haven't heard from her at all and I haven't asked him because we are only supposed to tackle triggering issues in front of the counselor until I can get my negative self talk and self defeating monologue under control. I don't k is what their investment in each other was, just what his lack of investment in us was. He said he was leaving for her, but I'm not sure what her circumstances were. Ready and waiting? Leaving after he left? Empty promise she thought she'd keep but couldn't? Empty promise she had no intention of keeping?
If she was going to leave her husband, she would have done it. It's not hard to do these days.

If he was going to leave you, he would have done it.

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I hate thinking about it because it leads me in mental circles, but I only know what one half of the plan was, and even then only very superficially. I don't know the whole plan. I feel like it shouldn't matter, but it does. If she had no intention of truly being with him, yes it would die quickly. But if she did?
If she was going to leave her husband, she would have. When a person really wants to end a marriage, it's not hard at all.

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I guess it doesn't matter because as soon as I kick him out, he's not coming back. Even if she didn't intend on leaving.
Ok, don't spend a lot of time mulling over all the what if's. Deal with what exists today.

It takes 2 to 5 years for a betrayed spouse to heal from infidelity. You have your work cut out for you. He has a lot of work to do to. That's where your focus needs to be.. on the work that you need to do right now. Hopefully you get that book soon. Once you have read that, there is more. But that book I step one.
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post #115 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-25-2017, 11:46 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

Here is some reading for you. It's in line with the book. It talks about Plan A and Plan B. You are in Plan A right now.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

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post #116 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 10:00 AM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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He said one of the things that hurts during reconciliation is a complacency that the betrayed spouse takes on, where they feel that the response to everything is "well yeah, but you had an affair." He said an important exercise for me that will show I'm in a place where I can move forward is by trying to fix my end and see if putting in the work is tinged with the resentment of "well you had an affair."
The book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring covers a lot of these kinds of aspects for both the betrayed and the betrayer. Both of you will have issues the other won't expect.

This is a process which takes time. While it may be smart to not beat him over the head about having the affair, there comes a point where you need to know that he understands the enormity of what he did and he repents. Again this is about the 2 different parts of what has to happen. The infidelity must be healed (Part A), and then the new relationship must be built (Part B).

I think when you get into the "well yeah, but you had an affair" dynamic it could indicate you are feeling he just doesn't get it yet. He is blame shifting onto you for his affair. You were a bad wife because you ABC, and then the unstated subtext is that is why he wasn't happy and it led to his affair. This shows that you need more healing from his betrayal, and it shows he hasn't yet fully owned what he did.

What might be true and fair is that you did something less than perfect as a wife and it caused him to feel disconnected or unsatisfied in the marriage. This is good stuff for Part B where you work on building a better marriage. We are all imperfect spouses, so let's do our best to have a positive attitude and not get too hurt when discussing how to improve as a spouse.

But that has nothing to do with his decision to cheat. He has to own that, which means he doesn't blame shift or minimize what he did.

It also means it should be clear within the discussion whether you are working on Part A which is healing from his infidelity or you are working on Part B which is learning to be a better couple. Sometimes things get mixed up where one of you is talking a Part A issue while the other is talking a Part B issue.

(Note Part A and Part B are not at all related to the Plan A and Plan B Ele linked to above)

Last edited by Thor; 03-26-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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post #117 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 12:45 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

"A slip up and a correction, even if I'm forcing the correction".

This isn't reality talking, this is hopefulness and emotional distress thinking.

He had an affair and told you he wants to leave, that he never loved you like her and doesn't want you anymore.
You are disregarding the fact that he doesn't even want to reconcile, certainly not remorseful.
You are listening closely to people who are telling you what you want to hear. You want to think you can work this out.

I am hoping you and they are right, but I doubt it.

The smart move is to ask him to leave and file papers. Let him come to you with a changed heart or not at all. Just because YOU want to rebuild your marriage, doesn't mean it's possible with these circumstances. I hate to see you waste time in pain.

The people like me who have been through what you're experiencing are being run down because we supposedly are biased and pro-divorce because we have been cheated on and divorced.
I didn't want divorce, I was like you. I chased my ex wife and tried to nice her back. As I said, I'm divorced, lol.
Take what advice you want to take and ignore mine. I know it feels better to listen to people that think you have a workable plan. I don't.
I think it's going at the problem from a position of weakness and will blow up in your face and you will cause yourself extended pain.

But I do wish you the best of luck and success at whatever you choose. I just mostly hope that even if he stays for years, it's because he finds live for you again.
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post #118 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

I'm excited to get the book, I'm just waiting until Monday when he goes back to work. I want to chance to read it without him there. I kind of want this to be in my toolbox and not something for mutual consumption.

Thank you for the feedback and the validation that I'm feeling like I feel for a reason. It's nice to not feel alone sometimes.

Again, I appreciate the concern but I'm not considering divorce or separation.
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post #119 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 01:12 PM
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Re: Found Out Husband Had an Affair

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The book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring covers a lot of these kinds of aspects for both the betrayed and the betrayer. Both of you will have issues the other won't expect.

This is a process which takes time. While it may be smart to not beat him over the head about having the affair, there comes a point where you need to know that he understands the enormity of what he did and he repents. Again this is about the 2 different parts of what has to happen. The infidelity must be healed (Part A), and then the new relationship must be built (Part B).

I think when you get into the "well yeah, but you had an affair" dynamic it could indicate you are feeling he just doesn't get it yet. He is blame shifting onto you for his affair. You were a bad wife because you ABC, and then the unstated subtext is that is why he wasn't happy and it led to his affair. This shows that you need more healing from his betrayal, and it shows he hasn't yet fully owned what he did.

What might be true and fair is that you did something less than perfect as a wife and it caused him to feel disconnected or unsatisfied in the marriage. This is good stuff for Part B where you work on building a better marriage. We are all imperfect spouses, so let's do our best to have a positive attitude and not get too hurt when discussing how to improve as a spouse.

But that has nothing to do with his decision to cheat. He has to own that, which means he doesn't blame shift or minimize what he did.

It also means it should be clear within the discussion whether you are working on Part A which is healing from his infidelity or you are working on Part B which is learning to be a better couple. Sometimes things get mixed up where one of you is talking a Part A issue while the other is talking a Part B issue.

(Note Part A and Part B are not at all related to the Plan A and Plan B Ele linked to above)
I don't think he's blame shifting, from what's been posted here about him. It seems like he's been up front with his feelings for the OW, even if he is in an ''affair fog,'' he told his wife he never loved her the way he loves the OW. I don't think it's realistic to compare an affair with a marriage, however, because the day to day responsibilities and details of life, etc is not as exciting as an affair with someone who allows the person to escape from all of that for a while. But, still. I don't see him as blame shifting, I see him as being pretty honest with his feelings, and it sounds like the only reason he may stay married, is because he can't have the OW. (because she's married) Or he fears divorce, etc.

I've read threads on here where affairs can change betrayed spouses for the better in terms of self respect. They sometimes seem to start out chasing the wayward spouse, in hopes that the marriage can be saved at all costs, but as time goes on, they learn more about themselves, and they grow stronger for it. Even if an affair ruins a marriage, it can still be a good turning point for betrayed spouses to learn that they are stronger than they once thought.

''Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time.'' - Unknown
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post #120 of 179 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 01:36 PM
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He just said that she started as a friend, somebody he had a lot in common with, who was cool and fun to be with. Then he noticed that he looked forward to seeing her and would seek her out. Somewhere along the line he interpreted their close friendship as love. He didn't say specifically what triggered it except for how he felt. He alluded to them having more in common and he trusts her whereas we have very little in common and we have trust issues on both sides now.

Your husband has poor boundaries around women. If he wanted to do more things with you, he could have come to you with suggested activities instead of enjoying the ego kibbles of a female "friend." He's a married man. Married men don't get to date, which is what he was doing.

Her husband just emailed back and said to mind my own business and to leave him and her alone.
I'm sorry to hear that a grown man would say such a hurtful thing to a betrayed wife who's trying to save her family and has been humiliated enoug. This guy sounds awful.
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