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post #16 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:25 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

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Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
Basically, you are getting no answers and no healing because your wife does not believe for a second that she is going to not be able to intimidate you into letting it go. She cheated on you yet she is in total control. You have two choices.

(1) accept what happened and be a "good boy"
(2) see an attorney and tell her what the conditions for recinciliation are, and that they are non negotiable.

You cannot move on without the full truth, and right now you have no clue what really happened or if it was the only time she has cheated. And others have asked you some questions that you need to demand answers to, not ask. And I would start with the polygraph test.

Apparently if this occurred years ago and you only found out six months ago, you were gaslighted for a long time. Women who do this are not trustworthy at all, and her reaction to the polygraph will tell you wonders. Those with nothing to hide ,hide nothing.

She is in total control. You say divorce is on the table, but I would bet your wife believes she has a better chance of getting hit by lightning in her living room than you walking right now. When she believes otherwise, you might make progress.
Please read this as many times as it takes to sink in, OP.


"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #17 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:26 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

Unfortunately, the easiest way to get past this is to divorce her and stop caring about what the answers are. There is nothing she can say that will make you trust her and accept her answers, so trying to find them is a lost effort. Use this as a time to think about what you would picture as an ideal relationship and then think about whether you see that happening with a person you do not trust. And, as the other posters alluded to, there is always going to be more that she is hiding from you. How much digging do you really want to do and for how long?
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post #18 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:33 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

Are they still working together?

If she is still working with him, they are still having sex or sexting. Or both.
He will still pursue an easy target.
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post #19 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:39 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

Bail.

I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying... Andy, Shawshank Redemption.
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post #20 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:45 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

You do not continue to sleep with an AP if you are not enjoying it. Period.
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post #21 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

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Unfortunately, the easiest way to get past this is to divorce her and stop caring about what the answers are. There is nothing she can say that will make you trust her and accept her answers, so trying to find them is a lost effort. Use this as a time to think about what you would picture as an ideal relationship and then think about whether you see that happening with a person you do not trust. And, as the other posters alluded to, there is always going to be more that she is hiding from you. How much digging do you really want to do and for how long?
Hearing your story and your need for detailed answer to questions regarding what exactly happened has me wondering. Why would you need specific details in order to heal from this. I would think the more details and the more you talk about it would make you feel worse. By now if you don't have all the information you want you probably won't get it and most of if is going to be a lie anyway. Do you think you could successfully R with her about this based only on what you know now. If not I would seriously consider divorce. You probably will never be able to trust her again and it doesn't seem she's doing her part to help you heal from this. I know this isn't what you want to hear but I think the only way that you can ever rest from this is to not have her in your life anymore.
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post #22 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:35 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

She welcomed and encouraged his advances. She wanted sex from the start.
She did this because she wanted to do it pure and simple. No need to ask in more "why" questions.
She then she continues to lie to you for two years(or more).
She has no respect nor love for you.
The wife and marriage you had died the day she started flirting with him. Both are gone and you just found that out for sure. You are grieving the loss.
She did this not you.
Free yourself from her, because she obviously wanted to be free of you even though she did not tell you.
You were and are her Plan B. The safety net to fall back to if the affair did not develop as she hoped it would.
She will do it again.
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post #23 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:42 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

1) If her answers are generally truthful, it seems her values and attitudes are not in line with yours. You point out a number of inconsistencies in what she says and did compared to what you believe(d) her to be. Let's imagine her answers are basically accurate. Is this the kind of woman you would consider marrying if you met her today and learned this about her?

2) If her answers are generally deceptions, it seems she is not marriage material. If she is capable of having meaningless sex outside of the marriage, what would keep her from doing this again in the future? She was comfortable entering into the affair and carrying on with it. She does not now say how terrible she feels about what she did. She does not say what she did was wrong. She does not say she regrets betraying your trust or hurting you. In short, she is not showing genuine remorse for the affair and for harming you with her actions. Is this the kind of woman you would consider marrying if you met her today and learned this about her?

Last edited by Thor; 03-30-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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post #24 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

To your specific concern about getting the truth from her, there is only one way I can think of to get there. It would be to have her provide all of her electronic records to you of any texts, emails, histories from skype and other such apps etc. Then have her write out a detailed timeline of the affair. When did they first meet, first flirt, first discuss being more than friends? Where did the encounters occur? Did either of them say I Love You, and when/where did that happen? How many times did they have sex? Did they always use condoms? What sex acts did they engage in? Did anyone take nude or sex photos? How and when did they communicate before, during, and after the affair? Who ended the affair?

You can ask for as much detail in the timeline as you think you need to know.

Keep in mind that there may be some errors due to the human memory being very imperfect. She may try to be fully accurate yet fail. You may find some inconsistencies which are not intentional lies, and you may detect apparent inconsistencies which are factually accurate. There may be things she really does not remember.

Give her something like 5 days to put all of this together. Her memory may pull up additional info as she thinks on it and as she writes out things.

Then take her for a polygraph. You will coordinate ahead of time with the person giving the polygraph on the questions. The main question would be essentially "Did she give you all of the electronic information you requested and is her written timeline complete and accurate?". A good polygrapher can get good results.

Normally I am not a fan of polygraphs for a few reasons, but in your case I really don't see any other way to get better facts.

Last edited by Thor; 03-30-2017 at 10:08 AM.
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post #25 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:05 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

You are, I think, too focused on the facts of what did or did not happen. As others have stated, you know she had a physical affair. You know she lied to you about it. You know the affair lasted for a while and was not some drunken one-night-stand (which wouldn't be good but implies different issues).

She did not participate meaningfully in marriage counseling. She has not owned up to what she did, nor shown true remorse. Her responses to your questions show continued deceptions, minimization of the affair, blame shifting, and rug sweeping.

What you have so far is a totally failed reconciliation. You have not healed from the betrayal. She is not doing any real work to help you heal.

In my opinion, all of those factors are vastly more important than exactly how many times they did whichever sex act, or whether she felt emotionally attached to him. I think your attempts to get better answers to your questions is a misguided effort. You're trying to understand what happened in order to figure out why it happened, and perhaps with that information you think you can save your marriage. The problem is the betrayal itself is not being dealt with.

Your wife is the one who needs to do the hard work in repairing the betrayal. The process requires expert guidance, ideally from a MC who knows what they are doing and will put the pressure on your wife. Your wife will have to feel and express true remorse for harming you. She'll have to see herself as having done something terrible, which is different than feeling bad for getting caught. She should apologize to you, and she should be asking for your forgiveness. She should be examining why she was capable of the betrayal in the first place. After the betrayal is processed, then you start working on rebuilding a new marriage with her, if possible.

Getting honest answers from her about the affair will be necessary, but the content of the answers is actually not a big part of the recovery process. You already know she had sex multiple times with the OM.

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post #26 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

Any answers you get will only hurt more. Just file for D and move on with your life.

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"You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!" Victor Von Frankenstein
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post #27 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:16 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

i'm getting tired of hearing about so called marriage counselors who put the onus on the behaving spouse and
try to get the BS to 'get over it'.

seems like more often than not, they do so. what are they teaching these people in grad school??
i don't care what you did............NOTHING justifies an affair. especially a cold brazen one like your wife.

glad you quit this MC. i agree with the others. your wife has no sense of shame.
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post #28 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:54 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

Hi and welcome. I am SO sorry you're here under these circumstances

A few things to know:
- it takes about 2 years to stop thinking about it daily and start healing. YEARS. You're only 6 months in. It takes about 5 years to truly heal. Of course you will hear from many people - including your wife - that you just need to GET OVER IT already. And many people do just that. But none of them have truly healed. They may even stay married, but that is NOT reconciliation. It's burying your head in the sand.
- you will never get every single detail. Never. The need to keep picking at the scab is common, though. I did it. I basically obsessed for about 2 years. Some people just seem to need to do that. The need for it went away for me because my husband was doing everything humanly possible to improve himself and prove to me that he was worthy of R, so eventually I settled down. I have NO idea how people do it when the WS isn't doing everything they can - which is almost always the case. It's the case for you for sure.
- It's too bad you didn't kick her out the day you found out. I believe that is THE BEST thing to do in pretty much every circumstance of cheating because it worked for me. It showed my husband exactly what I thought of what he did and exactly what I was willing to tolerate. Cheaters live in la la land and they need to wake the hell up, or they don't change. Nothing wakes them up like a kick in the ass.

This thread has invaluable advice for BS's - taking the time to read it might be the best investment you can make right now:

Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

Our R
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post #29 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

a lot of you guys gave sensible replies and advice. i said divorce is on the table, but i'll admit i'm not ready for it at this point. my mind is totally f*cked-up. i'm trying my best to get a grip, but so far i'm failing.

yes, that's it, perhaps i'm grieving the loss. i'm grieving that the wife and marriage i had died the moment she started flirting with someone else. this might be one reason why i feel like dying inside day-in, day-out. it felt eerily similar when my mom died a few years ago.

i'm aware she probably didn't and will not tell all truthfully, that's why i'm seeking for some plausible answers and explanations here to some of the questions lingering in my mind. i have been fighting hard to divert my thoughts from these questions but they just keep on haunting me. every minute, everyday. i'm obsessed with it...i'm obsessed with getting details. i can't help myself from thinking about it at this point.

please bear with me if i seem to be insisting in getting answers. which is true, which is not? her answers just made me more confused. i already pointed out to her about inconsistencies in her storyline, but she just told me she can't remember many details as she already put it behind her. and the affair didn't matter to her in any way so she didn't bother to remember or keep the memories.

i mentioned to her going through a lie-detector test, but she insists on just moving on and try to start over rebuilding. she pleads that she's remorseful and she's dealing with it herself - the remorse, shame, guilt, etc.

perhaps if i can just make a rough picture or storyline of the affair, i can probably start putting it to rest and push me to finally take that first step in healing...
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post #30 of 273 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 11:34 AM
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Re: lingering questions in my mind

She is remorseless. She, maybe, feels bad about being caught. When she says she is working on it herself and just wants you to move on, she is showing zero empathy and zero concern for you. Heartless is what she is.
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