How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so..... - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
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post #106 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:22 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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yes I guess that would be a good point to. No easy way out is there? Of course some would argue- maybe rightfully so - I already have done that
Not really. She is still having an affair and lying to you about it. By reaching this "agreement" the lies end and freedom for both parties begins.

It's not what you signed up for initially, but it will work if both parties agree to the new terms.


Back when my marriage of 21 years exploded in Dec. of '03, I could NOT reach this agreement. Then WS wanted his cake and to eat it too. He did not love me, I still loved him and the betrayal ran very deep. Marriage to me meant there was two of us in it, with mutual loved between us.

Present time, I am now detached and the love for him is not there. I could reach this agreement that I am stating here you could reach too. I would be financially set! Big perk for me and no loss.

He doesn't want to marry again, he just wants to date and enjoy partners. He wants freedom to do so. Sadly, I don't think he would marry me again and make this a marriage of convenience because it won't be convenient for him. He doesn't need it, but I do. I want his SS retirement in full because it is going to get lost anyway and it won't affect him in any way either, but it won't benefit him in anything either.

So I am screwed because I divorced in order to detach as it was too painful to stay married to a WS that had no love for me, no respect for me or our marriage and stupidly thought his OW would be a long lasting relationship.

Hindsight is 20/20 right? It's too late for me, but it is probably a great agreement for you as you have had plenty of years to detach and not see your WS as the loving woman that owns your heart anymore.


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #107 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 06:36 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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Now that I understand DARVO I can better answer your questions. Jay in my opinion was the start of all this. Whether it be simply because I should have put a stop to it then and yes was too scared or because it is some crazy long term affair that hasn't stopped- I have no idea- probably a combination of both and more factors.

Right now TODAY I had been of the opinion that jay wasn't an issue only because he is 4 states away and basically out of sight and out of mind. Had no illusions that if he were around he would be a problem. So that in itself really means deep down or whatever I really have known nothing has changed. The counseling, crying, talking, bleeding letters etc. haven't fixed the core problem.

The shock is he was still around I just was looking in the wrong places. As I have told my wife and TAM I am well aware of the cognitive effort my wife took in telling me more than once in the last year or two that she hadn't had contact with jay. Also aware of the effort it took to put his different ph number under his farm name instead of his and erase still more proof of their communication on top of going through the effort to make a point of telling me that due to trying to be transparent she wanted me to know she would have to communicate some with him because of her job yet didn't mention she already had been communicating with him all along.

What am I going to do? The only thing I can see is divorce at this point because of how calculated the above was and for me who it was with. I didn't see anything bad in what they texted - that I saw- but it is how it was all handled that concerns me. And most of all once again jay is still around. What is holding me back? Maybe an honest assessment is I stay on sinking ships too long. That being said, I am not of the mind frame right now to deal with ALL of my worlds collapsing at once and am trying to prepare a strategy for that. I will lose my job/career, my wife who has been a part of my life since both of our parents went to school together, some of my best memories of when I stayed with her family BEFORE we even remotely thought about dating as well as whatever crappy fallout there is from being in a backward nosy small town that has caused us grief since we moved here. Maybe 5-10 years from now I will be happy but the hell until then is going to border on being unbearable. I am not a fan of divorce, yes I am scared because I am the one pulling the trigger no matter how justified I am. And NOBODY on here knows enough about me or my situation to honestly assess if somehow I am part of this problem so yes I am scared 5-10 years won't find me any happier. Yes no matter how calculated her crying may be it does work on me with all this in mind
I'm not here to judge you, to tell you that you should do this or that... you have to live your life the best you can but at least know what you are willing to accept, thus willing to live.

I don't want to be EB2's second, and I don't share well, so if EB2 is going to have someone else in her life that she hides, then I have the need to know where she would really like to be, because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and who is willing to deceive me to have communications with another.

If she tells me she wants to be with me, then she needs to be with me in all things truthful, because I won't accept half-truths or a relationship that causes me to doubt her loyalty to our marriage, because if those doubts are there, I'm not. I may question other things that cause friction, and her I, but when I look in her eyes, there should only be my reflection there, anything less attracts pain that doesn't belong.

Love and trust... both would like to be unconditional yet each fraught with impermanence.

I've said, unconditional love is something that ebbs and flows based on how one chooses the limiting conditions, but trust... oh boy, this is something for me that must be clear in it’s presence and undisguised, clear of unmindful clutter and misunderstanding because at times one can behave in unloving ways and still the warmth comes back when the fussing is done... but when untrustworthiness hits, warm times to not return it to it's warm presence.

It doesn't mean that things will not work out for you because you cannot see them clearly now. If you don't trust enough, the torment continues... only you know which boundary you place is attainable.

If one were to place a boundary and make sure it's place and purpose are understood... one could then let go and remove themselves as part of any problem with the understanding everything else is outside of our control.

नमस्ते 🙏

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post #108 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 07:28 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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It was just a freak chance that I found what I did recently. Luckily I knew what his farm's name was or may have still missed it. She doesn't want to answer why he uses the "farm" phone instead of his. I wonder if he is hiding things from his wife? He texted my wife at night a few times so you think he would have used his phone. You make good points thank you
Wow, this always amazes me. She found you in a package she liked, but he has his problems and you fit the parts she doesn't like about him. Sorry, man, eric1 is correct, infidelity needs to end and long before you start discussing divorce, reconciliation (which has never happened) and financials. You both are chumps for this woman.
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post #109 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 07:34 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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post #110 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 08:04 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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And NOBODY on here knows enough about me or my situation to honestly assess if somehow I am part of this problem so yes I am scared 5-10 years won't find me any happier.
You have mentioned this a couple of times. The answer is that you have ZERO blame for her cheating on you. If things were so bad she should have divorced you and pursued J, but she didn't. You may carry responsibility for marital problems , but the cheating is 100% on her.You also mentioned you can't recognize any problems you may have caused but guessed at a few. Maybe you're not to blame. Maybe your wife is a self centered cheater who cares only for herself. I doubt the Nice guy that you are has considered that. You need to stop making excuses, and justifying your misery and follow @eric1 's advice to a tee. Filing for divorce does not mean you have to follow through with it , butif you deem it fit you can. The farm and all the other stuff will sort when the time comes. you can either be miserable plan B while your wife has a boyfriend or you can get yourself out of infidelity and go from there. The choice is obvious to us as well as you.Then you can work on making yourself a better you to assure yourself that you are not part of the problem in the future ,be it with your wife or any future relationships.
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post #111 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 08:17 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

@bremik,

I took a look at your past posts, all the way back to 2009, and I want to address a couple things.

First, I do not tell people to divorce lightly. I'm very pro-marriage and believe people should do everything they can to save the marriage and family. That doesn't always mean the marriage survives--but it does mean you can hold your head up high because you did everything you could!

Second, I grew up on a farm, so I do understand how that whole cycle works unlike some folks who just haven't lived that life, so no need to explain that to me. I think that makes talking a whole lot easier, don't you?

Okay, so here's the way I see it--tell me if you notice anything I got incorrect. Way back in 2009 (eight years ago), you signed up for this forum and you wrote that you just had this gut feeling that your wife was way too chatty with this fella, Jay, who was her old interest back in the day...like college, pre-you. Now she did MARRY you and life seemed okay, but at some point she took a job in the same company Jay and his buddy work for--way different departments and all, but same company--and that was the door he used to start things up again. At first, they texted, and you didn't see a smoking gun that she was cheating, so you asked her to stop and she said you were jealous and/or controlling etc.

Then you caught her at it again, and she said she was sorry but didn't stop. Then you caught her deleting texts, and caught her at it again and again, and a couple more times where she promised to stop but didn't. NOW--eight years later--she forgot her phone and you had a chance to look at it, and really she's been talking to this Jay fella all along, despite crying crocodile tears and telling you it was nothing and promising to stop, etc. They've been hiding it on a chat program, and she made his name be the name of his farm so you wouldn't be suspicious.

And in your head you can't decide if it is an affair or not, and is it worth blowing up your world over or not, and you're afraid if you lose her income your farm will go bankrupt, etc.
Is that about it??
______________________

Here's the thing: how do you define infidelity? unfaithfulness? adultery?

My definition is "Giving any affection, loyalty or companionship to any other person than me." (Disclaimer--I mean adult romantic love, not parent-child or siblings-family kind of love.) See, my Dear Hubby made a promise to me during our wedding that he would FORSAKE ALL OTHERS for me only, and that he would give 100% of his affection, 100% of his loyalty, and 100% of his companionship to me. So if he were to give some affection to another person (male or female), he would be giving away to them something that BELONGED TO ME. It's not his to give!

And if he gave some small bit of loyalty to some other person (male or female) above me, then he would be giving away to them something that was MINE! And finally if he preferred the companionship of some other person (male or female) over me and was giving them his "time" and "fun", then he would be taking from me something that he promised to only me!

So my definition of infidelity is being affectionate with someone other than your spouse--being loyal to someone other than your spouse--and preferring the companionship of someone else other than your spouse.

Again--I'm talking about the kind of affection where you flirt, and get a thrill out of their attention, and send little hearts or get them little gifts, or give them compliments on their looks...adult romantic affection. And I'm talking about defending someone else or supporting them or having their back rather than being united and completely behind your spouse. And I'm talking about given the choice between spending time with your spouse and spending time with this other person...and you can't wait to spend time with someone else! Right?

So using MY definition--give me 100% or it's unfaithfulness--you tell me? Has your wife been faithful? You tell me. Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she has given and is giving ALL OF HER AFFECTION to only you? Has she acted like she can not wait to kiss you or hold your hand or cuddle up with you on the couch? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years.

How about her loyalty? Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she is loyal to YOU and that she is standing behind her man? Has she acted like she has your back and would support you and be a united front with you even if she disagreed with you. Is it you and her against the world--or you against her? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years.

Finally let's consider companionship. Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she wants to spend time with you--both working and having fun? Does she act like she can't wait to be with you? Does she have fun with you? Does she enjoy your company and invest her time and energy with you? OR does she rush to get to her phone? Does she act like she can't wait to 'get this over with' so she can go back to doing something with someone else--or make excuses why she can't be with you? Does she find being with you boring, hurtful or just icky? Does she dislike your company and invest her time and energy with someone else? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years.

I think you have your answer. You don't really need to get any more of a smoking gun, do you? So what if she did or didn't sleep with some other person?

So really the question isn't, "Did she have an affair?" because in real life you know the answer to that question. NO ONE spends eight years secretly talking/texting/chatting with some other man and not have at least an emotional affair. And she is not investing her affection, loyalty and companionship with YOU.

The REAL issue here is facing reality. You don't want this to be real. You want to think that maybe there's some magical thing you could do or magical thing you could say that would make her drop Jay like a hot potato and love you! You hope that we can give you some advice that will let you keep her income, keep your income, keep your marriage, keep your family and keep your farm.

So here's the choice, @bremik. I believe in your heart you have known for a long time that what I'm saying is true. I am a Christian person, and I do not advocate for "open marriages" or "poly amory" or that sort of thing. But right now you get to choose: do you choose to accept how things have been going now for the past 8 years--or do you choose that the past 8 years are unacceptable and you will not continue. BOTH choices have a cost and a benefit:

Accept how things are going
Cost--You have to share your wife's heart and potentially her body with another man; you have to live in denial and constantly feel a little crazy
Benefit--You can keep your home and children and don't lose her income

'How things are going' is unacceptable
Cost-Lose her income, half the time with the kids, and VERY likely the farm
Benefit--You keep your self-worth because you are not sloppy seconds; you get to live in reality and have peace of mind

I won't kid you--a LOT of people choose to look past their spouse's infidelity in order to continue to live at their current standard of living. A LOT of people wring their hands and say they can't stand it anymore, and then make the decision to do nothing so they can keep their home, cars, property etc. They just don't want to say out loud that they are choosing to consciously pretend the affair didn't happen!

For you, I think the most profitable thing you can do for yourself right now is just get this through your head: FACE THE TRUTH. Your wife has already been unfaithful to you for eight years. If you do not intend to do anything about it, that is your choice: I'd say just admit to yourself out loud that you are choosing to let your wife be unfaithful. On the other hand, if you do not intend to let her continue her adultery, then that would mean that you will need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT...and that means that even though it hurts, you will have to live without her income and face possibly losing the farm. (Rather than lose the farm, if you actually love it why don't you show her the door and get a farm hand to help out in exchange for "room and board"? Just an idea! And before you say "Oh I just couldn't...." why not? Seriously?)

So @bremik figure that out first. FACE THE TRUTH. You tell us if you are going to choose to do nothing and accept it...or you are going to do something. If you are going to do nothing, I can't say everyone will agree with you, but at least you'd be honest with yourself and with us! But if you are going to do something, why then we'll talk again.

Let me know.


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post #112 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 08:24 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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Yes I'm angry and it's YOU who is making me angry.There was a thread running earlier about how men shouldn't marry American women.I think American women know their own minds and value and know what they bring to any relationship,some may call them self entitled but I see it them as confident strong women.
In your case it seems your wife's attitude is if you have an ass ride him.
Shouldn't you be changing diapers?

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #113 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 08:32 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

@bremik, what kinds of things did you find in the texts?

Any ILU's?

Any sexting?

Constant, prolonged contact or just an occasional text?

Were they ever -- at least as far as you're aware -- a couple, legimate or otherwise?

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #114 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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Shouldn't you be changing diapers?


He has staff for that.
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post #115 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 09:16 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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Shouldn't you be changing diapers?
I'm working my way up to it.

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post #116 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 10:56 PM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

Ok, I don't totally understand.
Are your wife and jay lovers?

What exactly are they texting about? Do you think she goes to see him and has sex?

I'm not in any way excusing the fact that another man is receiving your wife's attention.

I'm just not getting it. You say that there's nothing really bad in the texts. I would think there would be.

Are they lovers, or not?

If not, can you live with this crap?

Do you think your wife loves you, do you get lots of sex? Does she look forward to going places with you?

Please explain. I don't want to have to go. Ask to 2009 threads.

I just don't totally get her relationship with the jay guy. It's almost stupid sounding.

And have you had a discussion with jay's wife? Jay? If not, are you scared?

Do SOMETHING, if you're not happy. It's been 8 years, after all.
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post #117 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:59 AM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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He has staff for that.
Some liar on this forum told me new babies poop doesn't stink.
I have news for you buddy.....
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post #118 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:42 AM
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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@bremik, what kinds of things did you find in the texts?



Any ILU's?



Any sexting?



Constant, prolonged contact or just an occasional text?



Were they ever -- at least as far as you're aware -- a couple, legimate or otherwise?


I am with Gus here. While it was cheating her going through all of this to maintain a relationship with this loser, the next steps are highly dependent upon what kind of relationship she is having.

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post #119 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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I've tried to catch up on your posts but I have yet to determine whether you know if they are having sex - then or now?
No never have and she has consistently and strongly denied it the whole time
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post #120 of 535 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

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I'm not here to judge you, to tell you that you should do this or that... you have to live your life the best you can but at least know what you are willing to accept, thus willing to live.

I don't want to be EB2's second, and I don't share well, so if EB2 is going to have someone else in her life that she hides, then I have the need to know where she would really like to be, because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and who is willing to deceive me to have communications with another.

If she tells me she wants to be with me, then she needs to be with me in all things truthful, because I won't accept half-truths or a relationship that causes me to doubt her loyalty to our marriage, because if those doubts are there, I'm not. I may question other things that cause friction, and her I, but when I look in her eyes, there should only be my reflection there, anything less attracts pain that doesn't belong.

Love and trust... both would like to be unconditional yet each fraught with impermanence.

I've said, unconditional love is something that ebbs and flows based on how one chooses the limiting conditions, but trust... oh boy, this is something for me that must be clear in itís presence and undisguised, clear of unmindful clutter and misunderstanding because at times one can behave in unloving ways and still the warmth comes back when the fussing is done... but when untrustworthiness hits, warm times to not return it to it's warm presence.

It doesn't mean that things will not work out for you because you cannot see them clearly now. If you don't trust enough, the torment continues... only you know which boundary you place is attainable.

If one were to place a boundary and make sure it's place and purpose are understood... one could then let go and remove themselves as part of any problem with the understanding everything else is outside of our control.
Very well put!
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