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post #76 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:26 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Thank you for the kind words Mr. Blunt, I appreciate them. Something I haven't really shared regarding my reconciliation is when you know you will be ok no matter what you decide, a calming peace seems to take effect. When I learned I would be ok, I was able to make better decisions.
I found this with what I went through too. As most of you know I didn't R. But I suffered afterwords just the same. I know it wasn't as bad as DO by any stretch. (I say that as I am sure someone will point this out.) Anyway this was one of the things I had to come to terms with to be able to have a trusting stable relationship again. Without the nagging fear. I think understanding that my emotional safety even self worth should not be dependent on anyone's love of me put me in a much stronger position to choose a good mate. I was no longer making decisions out of fear. This should be the goal of everyone no matter if they have been cheated on or not. It also makes you a much better mate because you are not afraid to ask for what you need and hold your partner accountable. As everyone occasionally loses track of how there actions affect others.

I think this fear is the driving force behind so many people who are co-dependent. I think kids from broken homes are especially disposed to having this fear. I know it was one of my issues. I think it explains why a lot of codependent people end up with the narcissist they do. It's the fear that lets them settle and put up with little abuses that someone who doesn't operate out of fear wouldn't. Unfortunately I also think this is the reason why so many people in these kind of unhealthy relationships choose to continue in them, even when they are being or have been treated horribly. Whenever you talk about this @drifting on it always gives me hope for you. This is probably one of the most difficult things that some of us have to overcome. I hate to see this the most when I read these threads. Probably because I can identify with it. I was making choices in mates out of fear before I overcame this thinking. I was the child of divorce thinking this way. Being the KISA and setting up covert contracts because I was afraid to just go for what I really should expect as the most basic qualities in a mate.

I can also say as someone who went through a potentially life threatening trauma (that story is on here in some of my posts, threatened at gunpoint, it's a long story) that the sense of racing thoughts, panic, fear, just the basic lack of control of your own emotions are exactly the same. Part of the suffering is really feeling like you have lost control of your own mind. Part of getting better was accepting that, I didn't have control of my emotions. I got to a point where I would have to just ride my emotions and even bodily responses and say, yep this is not real so you are going to just have to wait this out. The more I did that the shorter the spells were to the point where they just became memories that gave me sharp pain but only for a second or two. The feeling were exactly the same.


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post #77 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:27 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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She understood and forgave my own stupid revenge affair, so the answer to your question would probably be yes. And she has said several times she wouldn't mind me having an affair. I have declined her offer, by the way.
Do you think on some level she wants you to have an affair so as to justify her having another affair? or for some other reason....she seem to be someone who can technically separate sex from emotions.
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post #78 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:31 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Do you think on some level she wants you to have an affair so as to justify her having another affair? or for some other reason....she seem to be someone who can technically separate sex from emotions.
It is because we rarely make love due to her health issues and she thought it was a solution to the problem.


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post #79 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 12:07 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I found this with what I went through too. As most of you know I didn't R. But I suffered afterwords just the same. I know it wasn't as bad as DO by any stretch. (I say that as I am sure someone will point this out.) Anyway this was one of the things I had to come to terms with to be able to have a trusting stable relationship again. Without the nagging fear. I think understanding that my emotional safety even self worth should not be dependent on anyone's love of me put me in a much stronger position to choose a good mate. I was no longer making decisions out of fear. This should be the goal of everyone no matter if they have been cheated on or not. It also makes you a much better mate because you are not afraid to ask for what you need and hold your partner accountable. As everyone occasionally loses track of how there actions affect others.

I think this fear is the driving force behind so many people who are co-dependent. I think kids from broken homes are especially disposed to having this fear. I know it was one of my issues. I think it explains why a lot of codependent people end up with the narcissist they do. It's the fear that lets them settle and put up with little abuses that someone who doesn't operate out of fear wouldn't. Unfortunately I also think this is the reason why so many people in these kind of unhealthy relationships choose to continue in them, even when they are being or have been treated horribly. Whenever you talk about this @drifting on it always gives me hope for you. This is probably one of the most difficult things that some of us have to overcome. I hate to see this the most when I read these threads. Probably because I can identify with it. I was making choices in mates out of fear before I overcame this thinking. I was the child of divorce thinking this way. Being the KISA and setting up covert contracts because I was afraid to just go for what I really should expect as the most basic qualities in a mate.

I can also say as someone who went through a potentially life threatening trauma (that story is on here in some of my posts, threatened at gunpoint, it's a long story) that the sense of racing thoughts, panic, fear, just the basic lack of control of your own emotions are exactly the same. Part of the suffering is really feeling like you have lost control of your own mind. Part of getting better was accepting that, I didn't have control of my emotions. I got to a point where I would have to just ride my emotions and even bodily responses and say, yep this is not real so you are going to just have to wait this out. The more I did that the shorter the spells were to the point where they just became memories that gave me sharp pain but only for a second or two. The feeling were exactly the same.


I thank you for really putting into words what I was trying to convey. We all have gone through pain in our lives, and although we may have different approaches or tactics, the bottom line is being a healthy person. I know the pain I felt with infidelity, you have felt that pain twice, I try not to view as who's s pain is greater or who's story is worse. Pain is pain that we have all felt, the key is how a betrayed spouse or a wayward spouse reacts to that pain. For you that pain as a child had to be devastating, you are still basically learning coping skills when infidelity invaded your life. The second time infidelity struck you, the pain was felt but I think you had an action plan that you implemented. I can see where you are coming from when speaking about reconciliation, and I respect your views on the subject.

As for codependency, it's a cancer that kills any relationship that was once good. I remember soon after d-day in MC, my wife had said it was every girls dream to be their mans everything. Our therapist who was also female had said she understood exactly what my wife was saying. I waited for their discussion to end and said I needed to say a few words about that. I began to say that if I'm my wife's everything then we are codependent, that will then end this marriage when adding the infidelity. Instead, my wife should be happier when I am healthy and know when I will be ok with or without the marriage. For if I am her everything then her happiness will be dependent on me. Mine and my wife's happiness needs to come from within ourselves, not the other. So in reality my wife should find me more attractive or living in that I will be fine either way. The same would apply to me. My therapist thought for a moment, said nobody had ever said it like this before. But each person in the marriage must be their own person, and together they make sacrifices for the marriage to thrive.

Thank you for your response @sokillme!

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post #80 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 12:23 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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By Drifting On
Thank you for the kind words Mr. Blunt, I appreciate them. Something I haven't really shared regarding my reconciliation is when you know you will be ok no matter what you decide, a calming peace seems to take effect. When I learned I would be ok, I was able to make better decisions. My racing thoughts began to dissipate at a rapid pace, but then something took over my heart. I am at a loss as to how to explain this, but at one point my therapist had said it didn't appear that my heart was in it anymore. What I came to find out is that it became a choice for me again, and that brought me the calming peace I searched so hard for. I worked so hard on myself, I self reflected until I was emotionally exhausted, I thought I had given all of myself into my healing that I could give no more. Yet that calming peace escaped me.

Finding out I would be ok, well that meant I was healthy, with additional work to do. I finally realized that calming peace was because I was choosing to love my wife again. I will always have a place in my heart for my wife, I will always have a love for her, but this is different. I now choose to love my wife each day, which has caused me to be more in love with her than I previously was. Something to be careful of is that while you feel that calm that you don't become distant and appear that your heart isn't in it anymore. I have come to realize I coasted some while enjoying that calm I had searched for. I don't know if this has happened to others, I can only speak for myself, but while enjoying the calm I'm now being more vulnerable.
I hope that I have conveyed this in a way others can understand. I as a difficult time trying to put into words how I have felt.


I am trying to understand your post. Here is what I got so far

1 Working on yourself is a FIRST step in improving, is healthy, and yet you have more work to do

2 Making choices each day to be vulnerable and love again is the second step


Drifting On, am I getting a better understanding of your posts?
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post #81 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Originally Posted by Mr Blunt View Post
I hope that I have conveyed this in a way others can understand. I as a difficult time trying to put into words how I have felt.


I am trying to understand your post. Here is what I got so far

1 Working on yourself is a FIRST step in improving, is healthy, and yet you have more work to do

2 Making choices each day to be vulnerable and love again is the second step


Drifting On, am I getting a better understanding of your posts?



You are perfectly clear. It was a couple of weeks ago that the feeling of a calm and peace came over me. So that is three years past d-day, it has taken this long as I have left nothing unturned, I wanted this reconciliation to work by going through everything. It is now that this enjoyable feeling has come, I had to choose each day to be vulnerable and love her. Just having a love for someone isn't enough, you have to be in love also, and that took time as we worked through everything. My situation is a little different then most, that being paternity, but that also made our reconciliation longer. That level of deception had to be combed through very slowly and accurately.

Imagine I go through reconciliation, we appear to be doing well then something about the boys comes up that I can't accept. Such as my wife and OM PLANNED the pregnancy, there is not a moment in life that I could accept that. Therefore the deception surrounding the paternity was carefully discussed, scrutinized, and dissected to the point I am confident to move forward. That's why we go slow, I need to be healthy to move forward.

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post #82 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 01:33 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

@Mr.Blunt, yes you have to first get healthy, and yes I have more work to do to be the best possible me. I am far from perfect, but I am improving myself and learning to be a better person and father. Of course I want to be the best I can be, when infidelity struck me I was knocked down repeatedly, that won't happen again. My emotional tool box is stuffed with coping skills to keep me healthy.

Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see.


Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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post #83 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:20 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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You are perfectly clear. It was a couple of weeks ago that the feeling of a calm and peace came over me. So that is three years past d-day, it has taken this long as I have left nothing unturned, I wanted this reconciliation to work by going through everything. It is now that this enjoyable feeling has come, I had to choose each day to be vulnerable and love her. Just having a love for someone isn't enough, you have to be in love also, and that took time as we worked through everything. My situation is a little different then most, that being paternity, but that also made our reconciliation longer. That level of deception had to be combed through very slowly and accurately.

Imagine I go through reconciliation, we appear to be doing well then something about the boys comes up that I can't accept. Such as my wife and OM PLANNED the pregnancy, there is not a moment in life that I could accept that. Therefore the deception surrounding the paternity was carefully discussed, scrutinized, and dissected to the point I am confident to move forward. That's why we go slow, I need to be healthy to move forward.
Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, no one deserves that kind of sacrifice. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.
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post #84 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:25 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, no one deserves that kind of sacrifice. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.


I couldn't be here if she weren't working as hard as she is. We are taught that Jesus forgives, but I won't kid you, I worry about her time on the chair of atonement with Jesus.

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Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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post #85 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 11:25 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Your wife doesn't deserve you. That is not an insult, no one deserves that kind of sacrifice. I hope she lives up to it. At the end of her life she should be like Saving Private Ryan at your grave.
Christianity calls for enormous strength from its followers and is not a faith for the selfish but a faith of giving based in part on strength. Sokillme, you are so right when you said “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” However, Christianity has a form of love and sacrifice that is extremely rare and that form is called grace, an act that is not based on what you deserve. One of the most powerful verses on the Christian Bible is below:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


That kind of grace is what is encouraged in the Christian faith and goes against some of the human logic and some of the world system. Grace is a very great calling for the BS and also very hard to accept and you see that with people that have committed infidelity/betrayal (WS) and have a hard time accepting forgiveness of themselves and the forgiveness from the BS.

Sokillme, I am not telling you and others this so that you think that I am some great Christian. I am telling you this because it seems that Drifting-on is attempting to, or has given, his wife grace. If that is what Drifting-on is doing then I take my hat off to him as he has done something that I would not do.

In the Christian world some have defined mercy and grace like this:
Mercy is NOT giving a person what they fully deserve
Grace is GIVING a person what they do not deserve


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post #86 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 12:41 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Christianity calls for enormous strength from its followers and is not a faith for the selfish but a faith of giving based in part on strength. Sokillme, you are so right when you said “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” However, Christianity has a form of love and sacrifice that is extremely rare and that form is called grace, an act that is not based on what you deserve. One of the most powerful verses on the Christian Bible is below:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


That kind of grace is what is encouraged in the Christian faith and goes against some of the human logic and some of the world system. Grace is a very great calling for the BS and also very hard to accept and you see that with people that have committed infidelity/betrayal (WS) and have a hard time accepting forgiveness of themselves and the forgiveness from the BS.

Sokillme, I am not telling you and others this so that you think that I am some great Christian. I am telling you this because it seems that Drifting-on is attempting to, or has given, his wife grace. If that is what Drifting-on is doing then I take my hat off to him as he has done something that I would not do.

In the Christian world some have defined mercy and grace like this:
Mercy is NOT giving a person what they fully deserve
Grace is GIVING a person what they do not deserve
I really don't like to have religious conversations on here for a few reason. Partly because I don't want to chase away people who need help and the point of the board is not about proselytizing. Also because I don't think I am the greatest example, especially when it comes to this subject. I am much more an old testament kind of guy when it comes to adultery. But I will for this post because I had actually come to some of the same thinking, so if you are not interested in a religious theosophical discussion bear with me. I actually had this exact thought the other day thinking about his story, he is a very good picture of Christ love for the sinner. I get it. I would not agree that this is necessary or required to stay married though like some Christians would, but that is a side note. And if it was required then it wouldn't be Grace anyway. But I digress.

Drifting on I am gonna be a little harsh in these next comments, not about you but about your situation, so forgive me and don't read it if you think it will offend you as I have nothing but respect for your sacrifice, but as I have told you before I have very mixed feelings about your situation. Yours is the most disturbing of all the stories on here, not just for what happened but also for how you had handled it. How much admiration I have for your strength and sacrifice but also how much it pains me to see you do it.

So anyway I see this story as a good picture of Christ too, however this insight was not the happy thought for me you might think and how it probably is for you. I led to a lot of dissonance for me. Being the type of Christian who always loves the idea of the freely given gift of salvation and understanding this story as the picture of grace, it's interesting to me that I find no joy or positive from this story at all, though I do respect his sacrifice. I can only see this story as a tragedy. If they go on to have 50 wonderful years together I would still think it is a tragedy, because he had to suffer such an indignity and she debased herself so. The imbalance of justice is too much for me. So this leads me to my another difficult thought. Is the story of salvation really a tragedy? Maybe it is. Now that is an whole other discussion for another board.

But even more disturbing for me was my next thought. So if he is like Christ then we are his wife in this analogy. Boy that's some cold water.

One thing this story has done for me though has given me a clear understanding of what sin and our separation from God must be like for God. It's is much more profound then eating an apple when you think of it this way. I am not a Creationist in the sense that I think the creation story in the old testament is God's allegorical way of telling finite man about himself and creation. (let there be light) sounds like the big bang to me, so forth. Anyway the apple thing never really got me emotionally, but thinking of it this way really hits home. God was like the working man who does everything for is wife, and 'man' was like the wife who goes out and screws (I really want to use the F word because it gets better at what it was but I won't as I might offend) screws her coworker because he was texting her how hot she is. Ouch.

Now to really get dark, just when you thought I couldn't get darker. Even now as I think of it this way, if I were Jesus, I would have been like nope, I'm out. Then just ascend after laying waste to the whole planet. That's not right. Gonna need to do some praying about that. Maybe it's cause man is the only date in town. Kidding. Anyway see what I mean about not being the best example. Still better then the women who posted on here today basically using Corinthians as a commandment from God to this abused wife that she must let her husband rape her. Talk about bad testimony.

Anyway pray for me.

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post #87 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 09:46 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

@drifting on, it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.
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post #88 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 01:15 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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@drifting on, it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.



Ah, the surreal feeling, I remember this, the moment you know the affair happened but you are in a state of complete disbelief. You walk around with your pain and can't process the fact that your spouse cheated. Sorry to say this, but the pain will get more intense. I'm not trying to diminish any hope you have, but instead to prepare you for what lies ahead. I don't know if you have felt anger yet, but that is also coming. After anger will come rage, a rage you have never felt before, it is very intense and powerful.

I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off. I can't speak for a wayward spouse, but going through MC you will find yourself questioning to reconcile or divorce. What you feel today you won't feel tomorrow. In my opinion it's a brutal roller coaster ride.

For your sake I hope you do have enough to reconcile. You will learn very early on the amount of work and commitment you will have to put forth. This isn't for the weak, it's a long process that has no shortcuts. Best of luck to you.

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post #89 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 01:55 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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it was the counsellor that diagnosed him, my husband says he has no idea why and answers to the best he believes he can all my questions I fire at him daily, we start on Tuesday first a joint session then he will go alone and I will also receive some help separately. Then when both a fair bit stronger Mc should that be the way we both want to move forward at the moment both of us want our marriage to work. I find this such a surreal experience I find myself in,it's really unpleasant. I hate it. Just really believing that we have enough outside his infidelity to fight through this and I have enough grace each day to forgive.
Is this counselor a certified sex addiction therapist, or is the one he's sending your husband to one? Because 'sex addiction' is all the rage right now, and many counselors are quick to label someone with it when it isn't true. My husband is a sex addict and attends a 12 step group - the fact he does so diligently is a huge plus as far as I am concerned. I'd be worried if he ever said he thinks he doesn't need it any more or just quit going. Anyway, beware of this diagnosis, and beware of your husband - or his counselor - using it as an excuse.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.


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post #90 of 144 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 01:56 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.


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