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post #91 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 02:35 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I really don't like to have religious conversations on here for a few reasons. Partly because I don't want to chase away people who need help and the point of the board is not about proselytizing.
Sokillme, you are a guy that seems to like “harsh” conversation and since I am Mr. Blunt I will respond like you like it. Contrary to your insinuation that faith chases away people that need help, some people get help from their faith with infidelity. I do not think this board bans speech about Christianity.

Secondly, your statement of “the point of the board is not about proselytizing” makes you look like a hypocrite. Why? Because you did a lot of your “religious theosophical discussion” with your post. My post was answering your statement of “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” and Drifting-On’s actions in dealing with infidelity which was not proselytizing.

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Being the type of Christian who always loves the idea of the freely given gift of salvation and understanding this story as the picture of grace, it's interesting to me that I find no joy or positive from this story at all.
You just preached against a few of the most basic doctrines of the Christian faith with your statement above. You state that the gift of salvation and grace gives no joy and is not positive. Is that proselytizing your beliefs?

Sokillme, the title of this thread is “Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation” For some, Drifting-on and his actions in dealing with reconciliation is definitely support for reconciliation as is the faith of grace.


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post #92 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off.
@Youngwife1000 - I agree completely with drifting here. I think that a lot of BS's may not see the need to go to IC. (After all, they're not the ones who clearly have issues to resolve, right?) IC in this case is not necessarily about "fixing" something, although I believe that we all need fixing in one way or another.

The reality is that the rollercoaster is unpredictable and has no mercy. It will hit you hardest on your worst days, when you are already down. You'll think that things are getting better, but then it comes around again. The demons don't care that you already defeated them once. Being betrayed by the person you are closest to - the one you share your heart and dreams with, is not something that you just brush off. You will need somone who can help you process all that - and decide what to do to, and how to do it. My therapist spent the first 6 sessions or so just helping me understand why - why I wanted to reconcile, why I wanted to divorce, why I believed my husband's desire for reconciliation was genuine, why I thought I could never believe in him or us again. And we've had some of those conversations all over again in one shape or another since then.

Don't underestimate the value of an objective, professional ear. All the emotions we feel are real, but many of them can be managed more easily by understanding why we have them. I'm pretty introspective, but I certainly did not have the ability to do that by myself. I am several months from D-Day and I am still seeing my therapist. I urge you, and any BS spouse, to please find a decent IC. If you don't have access to one or can't afford one, then you need to make another plan (religious support etc.) - but I do believe that reconciliation is not something that you should DIY. (Also toilets - but my reasons there are a bit different.)

One final thing - effective IC is a chemistry thing. Some approaches and therapists work for some people and not for others. There is absoluely nothing wrong in trying another therapist if you don't feel like you're getting anywhere with your first one.

Re-reading this - I think perhaps I come across a little militant and preachy. Sorry about that. But, I'm still going to post it. As much as we may want to, we can't give you what you really need right now. Sympathy and advice is just not going to cut it. Thoughts and hugs with you, Youngwife. Drifting has said that it will get worse, and it will. But it will also get better, and more importantly, you will get stronger too.

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis
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post #93 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

@Hope1964 , the counsellor is a member of ATSAC here, so yes he's PST trained. My mind is still a muddle of emotions, each day I'm just trying to focus my thoughts. I just don't know what lays ahead, I'm still living in the moment. I'm nervous of the future still.
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post #94 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Ah, the surreal feeling, I remember this, the moment you know the affair happened but you are in a state of complete disbelief. You walk around with your pain and can't process the fact that your spouse cheated. Sorry to say this, but the pain will get more intense. I'm not trying to diminish any hope you have, but instead to prepare you for what lies ahead. I don't know if you have felt anger yet, but that is also coming. After anger will come rage, a rage you have never felt before, it is very intense and powerful.

I think if you and your husband work on yourselves first, you will then be better prepared for MC. I went to MC completely broken, started IC second, and forgiveness was difficult. Had I gone to IC first and begin the path to my healing I would have been better off. I can't speak for a wayward spouse, but going through MC you will find yourself questioning to reconcile or divorce. What you feel today you won't feel tomorrow. In my opinion it's a brutal roller coaster ride.

For your sake I hope you do have enough to reconcile. You will learn very early on the amount of work and commitment you will have to put forth. This isn't for the weak, it's a long process that has no shortcuts. Best of luck to you.
Thank you for your response, the pain is intensifying but almost morphing into different things from hour to hour. Yes I've felt anger and still do, I'm angry at his timing, our baby was 8 weeks old, and I needed my husband. Although I obviously didn't know so it didn't effect me then, just the thought of it makes me angry and rage now. I'm angry that I could be so stupid to think that he was the man of my dreams, I've literally never loved like I loved him. Im angry that he met for sexual pleasure 7 times and was still having regular sex with me. The thought of him naked with those people and them stroking and touching him rips at me every hour of every day. The rage turns to pain, I don't vent it at him, it's not in me to do so, rage is an ugly trait to display and although I feel it I won't display, I find myself full of cocky remarks that I say in my head, like did you manage to get through today without some guy sucking your ****. However I never utter a word. Believe me the anger and rage well in me a lot but fall as tears. Sometimes I want to tap out, but just don't have the strength. Everyday I feel a little more distant as I work on my own strength, I go out running now, my time I will be seeing a therapist my own. I feel myself shutting down to build myself up. I've recovered from trauma before and I know I can do it again. I just don't know what this recovery looks like. It's a scary place I find myself in. I want to be whole again and I want to keep my marriage but it feels like I'm shutting down from him.Is this normal? I'm literally in no mans land. Yesterday morning I just needed to hold him, so I lay cuddling him as the tears fell silently down my cheeks. It makes no sense.😔
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post #95 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:38 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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@Hope1964 , the counsellor is a member of ATSAC here, so yes he's PST trained. My mind is still a muddle of emotions, each day I'm just trying to focus my thoughts. I just don't know what lays ahead, I'm still living in the moment. I'm nervous of the future still.
I don't know what PST training is, but good. And of course you're nervous. IC will do you a world of good - it sure did for me.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.

Our R
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post #96 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 09:23 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Thank you for your response, the pain is intensifying but almost morphing into different things from hour to hour. Yes I've felt anger and still do, I'm angry at his timing, our baby was 8 weeks old, and I needed my husband. Although I obviously didn't know so it didn't effect me then, just the thought of it makes me angry and rage now. I'm angry that I could be so stupid to think that he was the man of my dreams, I've literally never loved like I loved him. Im angry that he met for sexual pleasure 7 times and was still having regular sex with me. The thought of him naked with those people and them stroking and touching him rips at me every hour of every day. The rage turns to pain, I don't vent it at him, it's not in me to do so, rage is an ugly trait to display and although I feel it I won't display, I find myself full of cocky remarks that I say in my head, like did you manage to get through today without some guy sucking your ****. However I never utter a word. Believe me the anger and rage well in me a lot but fall as tears. Sometimes I want to tap out, but just don't have the strength. Everyday I feel a little more distant as I work on my own strength, I go out running now, my time I will be seeing a therapist my own. I feel myself shutting down to build myself up. I've recovered from trauma before and I know I can do it again. I just don't know what this recovery looks like. It's a scary place I find myself in. I want to be whole again and I want to keep my marriage but it feels like I'm shutting down from him.Is this normal? I'm literally in no mans land. Yesterday morning I just needed to hold him, so I lay cuddling him as the tears fell silently down my cheeks. It makes no sense.��


Youngwife1000

What you are feeling here is completely normal, in fact I felt the same way. What I have written about infidelity is the pain I have felt, sometimes I wonder if me posting is even helpful. Telling someone of the pain and difficulties that lay ahead have made me feel as if I am a deterrent to marriage and reconciliation. I post this way for a number of reasons, and I should probably tell you why I post this way. Writing for me is cathartic, I can allow the pain to dissipate some by acknowledging the pain and releasing it through writing. The pitfalls and difficulties of reconciliation I write about so others are maybe more informed of what lies ahead. I sincerely hope my posts don't have someone fear reconciliation, but instead are aware of what one will encounter on your journey through.

Sometimes I post from a very sarcastic position, this is usually due pain I feel from a thread. Instead of being supportive or helpful I post an angry/sarcastic version of pain. With this being said, and only a few reasons why I post, my main objective is to simply help people the way posters have helped me. Youngwife1000, this journey will certainly test you, emotionally draining, and make you think you can't move forward. However, if you give all of yourself to this, I have no doubts that you will become a far better person. IC in my opinion is a must, no exceptions, as you need to get back to a healthy state for yourself. By doing this, you will eventually begin to feel empowered, you will become a much stronger person then you ever thought imaginable.

Your post above in my opinion screams that you are in need of IC. Understand you are not crazy in any way, you actually fit the description of a person diagnosed with PTSD. That should not be a scary diagnosis but rather a diagnosis that comes with relief. You have been dealt a serious blow to your brain, and every process the brain has is now changed. It will go back to its old way of functioning again, but IC gives you tools to change yourself to better cope with the trauma. Your pain, anger, sadness, disbelief, confusion, happiness, rage, love, fear, humiliation, and a host of other emotions will be fleeting. Your racing thoughts and possible struggles to stay focused in a conversation will dissipate after time. During this time I survived day by day, then hour by hour, then minute by minute, but the telling part is that I survived. You will also survive, you will use tools from IC to help you place one foot in front of the other. It's exhausting, and I wanted to tap out on many occasions, but again, I survived.

With any luck you realize I am cheering for you to make it, but it is you that needs to do the work involved. I have credited my MC with saving my life, but reality is that she provided tools for me to save myself with. I did the hard work, MC gave me resources in which to do it successfully. For you it will be the same way, it's you that does the hard work and you that becomes stronger. You can do this youngwife1000 stay the course and start IC as soon as you can. I think you should also keep posting, this is a great way to gain knowledge about infidelity. You also get to write to others that full understand what you feel, and that is a blessing that is very supportive. Stay strong and God bless.


ETA: do not continue to suppress your anger/rage, your husband needs to see and feel what you are feeling.

Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see.


Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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post #97 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 11:44 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I couldn't be here if she weren't working as hard as she is. We are taught that Jesus forgives, but I won't kid you, I worry about her time on the chair of atonement with Jesus.

My wife and I did a study of Paul together and found solace there. It was after that that we both felt comfortable sharing our testimony with friends, family and multiple groups of Christians.

Some Kay Arthur might be helpful too. https://youtu.be/M4mll_Z1TPM


As a betrayed husband seeking to recover your marriage, shame, remorse and regret are nice, initially, and good outward signs of repentance; however, you don't want to forever be married to someone living in that hole. At some point, after forgiveness, it becomes about restoration and sanctification. Reconciliation, to me, is about building each other back up after a traumatic and hurtful {soul crushing} experience. Those that continue to treat their repentant former wayward spouses as dogs, are the ones that, more often than not, get bit again.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #98 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 06:12 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Originally Posted by Quality View Post
My wife and I did a study of Paul together and found solace there. It was after that that we both felt comfortable sharing our testimony with friends, family and multiple groups of Christians.

Some Kay Arthur might be helpful too. https://youtu.be/M4mll_Z1TPM


As a betrayed husband seeking to recover your marriage, shame, remorse and regret are nice, initially, and good outward signs of repentance; however, you don't want to forever be married to someone living in that hole. At some point, after forgiveness, it becomes about restoration and sanctification. Reconciliation, to me, is about building each other back up after a traumatic and hurtful {soul crushing} experience. Those that continue to treat their repentant former wayward spouses as dogs, are the ones that, more often than not, get bit again.


I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I have supported my wife and her healing with infidelity as well. Truth is, I can give her all the support in the world, but only my wife can forgive herself, and this is proving to be difficult for her. As much pain as I went through, my wife has also had pain to endure. Will be she be wounded for life? I think she will carry scars and have painful reminders, as will I, it's just that the scars and pain have come from different causes for us both.

Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see.


Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.

Last edited by drifting on; 04-15-2017 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Spelling
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post #99 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

So - I have issues about managing my triggers and negative thoughts and how /whether I share them with my husband. I am aware that he feels deep guilt and shame over his decisions and actions. He does not harp on this, but I do see positive evidence of his state of mind. When I have a trigger, do I continue to share this with him or not? I think that this is relevant to the previous comments on this thread about supporting our spouses, and allowing them to heal and work at forgiving themselves.

I think about the affairs and consequences several times a day - it is getting better, but I am a long way from not thinking about it all. In the past few months, if my husband was around, I would tell him about these thoughts. But I know that when I do that, it makes him feel like crap. Please note that he is being as supportive as I could ask for in this. (I think that he has twice in 8 months asked for us to not have a specific conversation at that time, both times when he was exhausted. Both times we had the discussion later.) He has not asked me to stop, but I've been thinking about whether my sharing these things with him is still constructive.

When we rugswept his first affair, I responded to both of our clear preferences to just pretend that it never happened by hardly ever bringing it up. After the first few weeks, I was not open about the pain and disillusionment that I continued to feel - and that lack of honesty extended to myself as well. Which means that this time round, I had consciously decided to talk as honestly and openly to him as I could. My motives are complicated - he is my best friend and if anyone else had hurt me, I'd be talking to him about it. The fact that he is the one that has hurt me doesn't change my need to do that. At some level, I also want him to understand my pain as fully as possible. It isn't about wanting to hurt or punish him - I certainly don't feel better because he feels worse. But I do know that he won't ask me to stop because he feels he needs to be there for me, in whichever way I need.

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis
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post #100 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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I find myself so saddened while reading of all these incredible painful stories of betrayal. Suffering from depression certainly makes me extra empathetic to the pain of others and it just has me feeling out of sorts. Know that my thoughts and prayers are with all of us who have bonded through our pain. Certainly, forgiveness is a challenging road.

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maritalloneliness, I recently had the kind of depression that left me without much emotion at all. It felt very safe - inasmuch as I had any feelings at all. But it was the most distant I have ever been from anybody. Feeling sadness as I do now is much more intrinsically painful. But it does feel very real and knowing that other people have felt and are feeling it as well, makes it much less lonely. So I am glad that we are here together. Not that any of us is specifically here ... but just that none of us are here alone.

Today I am sad because I realised that I subconsciously had a dream about what my marriage would be like post-"whatever this process is". That it would be clean and shiny and wonderfully new - with all the doubt and sorrow and resentment washed away. But, I'm starting to realise that it isn't going to be like that at all. That that was just a dream, and that the reality will be much more battered and scarred... and real. And like opening up a gift and realising that I should actually be very grateful for the enormously practical and useful whatever-it-is, maybe I'm just mourning the death of my illusions. Maybe this is just me growing up. (I'm getting old to be doing that.) Maybe everybody eventually hits the ground and those of us who go through it this way, just hit it harder. But again, I am glad that I have the company of others.


I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.
― C.S. Lewis
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post #101 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:59 PM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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So - I have issues about managing my triggers and negative thoughts and how /whether I share them with my husband. I am aware that he feels deep guilt and shame over his decisions and actions. He does not harp on this, but I do see positive evidence of his state of mind. When I have a trigger, do I continue to share this with him or not? I think that this is relevant to the previous comments on this thread about supporting our spouses, and allowing them to heal and work at forgiving themselves.

I think about the affairs and consequences several times a day - it is getting better, but I am a long way from not thinking about it all. In the past few months, if my husband was around, I would tell him about these thoughts. But I know that when I do that, it makes him feel like crap. Please note that he is being as supportive as I could ask for in this. (I think that he has twice in 8 months asked for us to not have a specific conversation at that time, both times when he was exhausted. Both times we had the discussion later.) He has not asked me to stop, but I've been thinking about whether my sharing these things with him is still constructive.

When we rugswept his first affair, I responded to both of our clear preferences to just pretend that it never happened by hardly ever bringing it up. After the first few weeks, I was not open about the pain and disillusionment that I continued to feel - and that lack of honesty extended to myself as well. Which means that this time round, I had consciously decided to talk as honestly and openly to him as I could. My motives are complicated - he is my best friend and if anyone else had hurt me, I'd be talking to him about it. The fact that he is the one that has hurt me doesn't change my need to do that. At some level, I also want him to understand my pain as fully as possible. It isn't about wanting to hurt or punish him - I certainly don't feel better because he feels worse. But I do know that he won't ask me to stop because he feels he needs to be there for me, in whichever way I need.
oh hell no dear...I would make sure he hears every single word and painful moment you are having, spare him of nothing, you didnt have a say in any of this and didnt deserve it......dont ever shoulder your pain alone!!! have you been to therapy?? this was one of the first things my therapist told me, my WW was responsible for doing everything possible to help me heal.....period. If you keep things to yourself you will just build up resentment that will show up sometime later, guaranteed.
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post #102 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 12:08 AM
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It's been almost a year since d day. She exhibits very strong narc/bpd traits. I was promised the world if I didn't divorce her, and looking back now I feel extremely short changed. Once I agreed to try and reconcile, she went back to being her dismissive, deflecting, no accountability self. My little daughter is my world, and it's amazing how much crap you'll put up with when your babies are everything. I survive my adulteress by being as civil as I can without being a doormat, which narcs are constantly testing. I have an exit plan, although long term, it gives me something to look forward to.

Honestly, I don't love my wife anymore. I was expected to just get over what she did. I have to constantly remind her that being a lowlife cheater isn't something I take responsibility for, again isn't something a narc likes to hear.

I've learned to enjoy my own company and I invest as much time as I can with my sweet little girl.
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post #103 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 01:35 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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Sokillme, you are a guy that seems to like “harsh” conversation and since I am Mr. Blunt I will respond like you like it. Contrary to your insinuation that faith chases away people that need help, some people get help from their faith with infidelity. I do not think this board bans speech about Christianity.

Secondly, your statement of “the point of the board is not about proselytizing” makes you look like a hypocrite. Why? Because you did a lot of your “religious theosophical discussion” with your post. My post was answering your statement of “no one deserves that kind of sacrifice” and Drifting-On’s actions in dealing with infidelity which was not proselytizing.



You just preached against a few of the most basic doctrines of the Christian faith with your statement above. You state that the gift of salvation and grace gives no joy and is not positive. Is that proselytizing your beliefs?

Sokillme, the title of this thread is “Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation” For some, Drifting-on and his actions in dealing with reconciliation is definitely support for reconciliation as is the faith of grace.
I added the preference in the beginning of my post to point out that I was going to be doing the very thing I don't really like to do. That was the point of the first paragraph. Does that make me a hypocrite if I apologize before I do it. Maybe?

You are right I am sure some people are attracted to faith talk. What is right for you may not be right for me. We are both entitled to our own styles. My point was not to criticize you for your post but to talk about why I don't post that way. For me I really don't come on this board to have talks about Christianity or doctrine or any of that except in rare circumstances. I just am not very comfortable with it in this context, that is only me stating how I feel for myself. The point being that for the next post I was going to do something I don't normally do. That's all, no criticism intended.

Continuing down that vain, I don't know why you see my response post as an attack on yours. I actually pretty much completely agree with your take. I suspect that maybe you couldn't tell my sense of discomfort with the whole thing or more so my discomfort with my own reaction to it. You are right there is a giant disconnect between my thoughts on salvation and my thoughts on drifting on. One reason I am sure is that drifting on is not God. In a sense I think God is big enough to take it. D.O. shouldn't have to. But still..

Nothing in my post was an attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking, in fact I thought it was quite somber. I don't even know if I want to think the way I do about this. My thoughts on salvation in the context of D.O.'s story bring me no joy, but I am honest enough to admit that I don't like that in the sense that the thought of salvation outside of D.O.'s story does. That is a difficult dichotomy to resolve. Again in a sense that our betrayal to God was very much similar to D.O.'s wife to him, which is quite eye opening, as it has been a while since I have felt man's betrayal of God so viscerally. I don't like it, but I can't deny it.

I suggest you re-read my post not as a rebuttal to yours but as a man dealing with what agreeing with your post means for him and his hatred of infidelity and the context of original sin and salvation. There really was nothing personally directed at you at all, but think of me how you wish.

Quality I know what you are thinking. Shut up..

Last edited by sokillme; 04-17-2017 at 01:49 AM.
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post #104 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 01:38 AM
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Re: Support thread for BS's trying reconciliation

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It's been almost a year since d day. She exhibits very strong narc/bpd traits. I was promised the world if I didn't divorce her, and looking back now I feel extremely short changed. Once I agreed to try and reconcile, she went back to being her dismissive, deflecting, no accountability self. My little daughter is my world, and it's amazing how much crap you'll put up with when your babies are everything. I survive my adulteress by being as civil as I can without being a doormat, which narcs are constantly testing. I have an exit plan, although long term, it gives me something to look forward to.

Honestly, I don't love my wife anymore. I was expected to just get over what she did. I have to constantly remind her that being a lowlife cheater isn't something I take responsibility for, again isn't something a narc likes to hear.

I've learned to enjoy my own company and I invest as much time as I can with my sweet little girl.
Why do you pause then? Time is something you can never recover.
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post #105 of 122 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 02:38 AM
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Why do you pause then? Time is something you can never recover.
Because I love my daughter more than my own life.
I'm also not an easy target for the narcopath so she will set her sights on my 2 year old. If she's in my house I can keep an eye on what goes on and handle it.

This is also a big reason why I went and got snipped.
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Living together but now she wants more child support plomito Going Through Divorce or Separation 10 04-25-2016 08:58 AM

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