Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try... - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

User Tag List

 30Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:46 AM
Member
 
Vinnydee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southern USA, but longtime NYC boy prior to our move.
Posts: 685
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

As I always post, most grasp at straws rather than accept the eventual outcome. I have also posted not the cheater will always deny and when you ask for details, they will minimize it. No one is stupid enough to throw fuel on the fire. No matter how sorry they say they are, and most will, the reason for them cheating still exists and adults just don't change their nature. They may try to be this or that but sooner or later, their real nature will appear again.

Then there is the issue that trust it gone and you will have to live the rest of you marriage suspicious of your spouse. The cheating will be mentioned a lot as part of the healing process and sooner or later the cheating spouse will get tired of being accused and reminded. It is a lousy way to live.

I never cared about the sex part because I have been in a non-monogamous marriage. The cheating part for me was the lying and deceit. We tend to view ourselves as half of a couple and sexual pleasure is only for each other because that is what we have been taught. At one time there were good reasons for that, but not anymore. I decided to leaven my ex fiancée after 5 years together. I believe that a person's past behavior is a very good indicator of their future behavior and I certainly was right in the case of my ex fiancée.

An old marriage counsellor friend of mine, whose own wife cheated and divorced him, said that once you are told by your spouse that they do not love you, it is over and get the heck out of there as soon as possible. Love is a chemical reaction that is genetically induced. It cannot be willed into or out of existence. I cannot look at a girl and will myself to love her. So once the love is gone, it is gone. At best, couples learn to life together as good friends for various reasons like kids, financial, etc..

P.S. has anyone posted about a marriage counsellor saving a marriage long term? I never knew anyone who stayed married for longer than two years after MC. Just wondering because MC and separations seem like moving towards divorce a little at time to reduce the impact of it. The MC provides hope. Separation lets the other know that they will be dating others and finally the divorce. Much less of a shock that way, I guess.


Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality.
Vinnydee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:46 AM
Member
 
Bibi1031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: texas
Posts: 1,807
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

You may be dealing with ant addict here. Pot depresses you. That's probably why she is lazy too. She lives for the weed now . It has taken over.

The weed needs to go or the marriage is over.

I'm sorry to say , but I honestly think the marriage is over. Get go a doctor and get yourself on meds or this will depress you even more. Your son deserves at least one parent in their right mind to take care of him until he can take care of himself.

Your wife needs to get clean first!

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bibi1031 is offline  
post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:48 AM
Member
 
jb02157's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,341
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

It seems there really isn't any basis for any type of reconciliation. She doesn't seem to want it to nor to show any type of remorse for what she did. Any mom who smokes pot as much as she does while bringing up a child should be put away, regardless if OP has not problems with it, he just becomes an enabler. I see an unfit wife and an unfit mother so I would recommend a divorce. Also, family services should be brought it to assure the child is not brought up by his mother.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
jb02157 is offline  
 
post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 32
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

She has always smoked pot. She only quit when she was pregnant. I used to also, but only at nights to wind down and relax with her. I have not in about 8 months. I gave it up. I was sick of the high cost and how it made me feel lazy. I'm not saying I wouldn't again. I have no issues with someone who does it to relax at night. I relate it to a beer or glass of wine at the end of the evening.

However, at this point, I am too scared to bring up anything to my spouse that is even remotely confrontational as I fear it will just make things worse. My counselor actually asked me why? Why not make her mad? But at the same time, my home work for the week was to back off. So, kind of a catch 22 there.

I don't think pot is the problem, I think it's a band aid for her and it's just making it worse. She has barely left the bedroom or the house in the past few weeks. She has not cleaned or done anything around the house. She is a stay at home mom. I have a very demanding executive job where I work 50+ hours and it's with a Chinese company so I am often on the phone late at night as well. I have been going home and cleaning, taking care of dinner, doing laundry etc. I just don't want my son to suffer because of this, and the way she is being - he is.

It all just feels like she's trying to punish me. And she feels like she has the moral high ground. I also don't think she is remorseful. But yet, still, I have hope she will come around. I love my wife to death and can't imagine my life without her. But, I might have to start imagining that. I just don't know an appropriate amount of time to give. And, at the end of the day, I started all of this because I was unhappy. I ask myself do I really want to stay with her anyway? Such a mess.
Saddad44 is offline  
post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,077
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Just end it, you know it's the right thing to do. None of you have the courage. You need to man up and give her a divorce that she and you want. Once separated, you are free to date and bang whatever you want. Go have fun and stop living in a sham of a marriage. Your kid will come out just fine.
GuyInColorado is online now  
post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 32
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyInColorado View Post
Just end it, you know it's the right thing to do. None of you have the courage. You need to man up and give her a divorce that she and you want. Once separated, you are free to date and bang whatever you want. Go have fun and stop living in a sham of a marriage. Your kid will come out just fine.
I understand that, but in reality, I DO want to make it work. I love my wife. We had really good times,like any marriage - ups and downs. More ups, but there certainly were downs. You are right about one thing, I do lack the courage to end it, if that's what it comes to. I am just not convinced it's there yet. I want to give her time that she requested. But it's so difficult, even more so when she won't make any strides or efforts to assure me or help me through this. She doesn't believe that I have similar feelings and doubts and issues like her, because she did it too.

I find hers to be worse, as we were living together. Playing family. Having dinner etc. Using her family as excuses to go over there on weekends, etc. It's not a contest by any means, but that's some devious ****.
Saddad44 is offline  
post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:36 AM
Member
 
Keke24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 649
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddad44 View Post
I understand that, but in reality, I DO want to make it work. I love my wife. We had really good times,like any marriage - ups and downs. More ups, but there certainly were downs. You are right about one thing, I do lack the courage to end it, if that's what it comes to. I am just not convinced it's there yet. I want to give her time that she requested. But it's so difficult, even more so when she won't make any strides or efforts to assure me or help me through this. She doesn't believe that I have similar feelings and doubts and issues like her, because she did it too.

I find hers to be worse, as we were living together. Playing family. Having dinner etc. Using her family as excuses to go over there on weekends, etc. It's not a contest by any means, but that's some devious ****.
So what exactly do you want to do OP? You keep going around in circles and avoiding making a decision. It really boils down to 2 main choices:

1. You state your case on what changes you'd like to see in her and what changes you're going to make. Give yourself 6 months (this time frame is for you and not communicated to her) to see concrete changes and decide you'll file otherwise (and stick to it).
2. You state your case and file for divorce now.
Keke24 is offline  
post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 59
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddad44 View Post
I understand that, but in reality, I DO want to make it work. I love my wife. We had really good times,like any marriage - ups and downs. More ups, but there certainly were downs. You are right about one thing, I do lack the courage to end it, if that's what it comes to. I am just not convinced it's there yet. I want to give her time that she requested. But it's so difficult, even more so when she won't make any strides or efforts to assure me or help me through this. She doesn't believe that I have similar feelings and doubts and issues like her, because she did it too.

I find hers to be worse, as we were living together. Playing family. Having dinner etc. Using her family as excuses to go over there on weekends, etc. It's not a contest by any means, but that's some devious ****.
There is no "worse". You both did the "worse". This is not a competition to see who is the least disloyal. If one were to truly follow your line of reasoning, you did "worse" because your marriage was a faithful union between two people before you stepped out.

Anything that happens after that is directly because of that, but she made her choices too, and she has to own them just as much as you will hopefully own yours... completely.

You have to own your infidelity, because there are lessons to be learned, so that you will never do it again, either to your current wife, or whomever else you pledge fidelity to in the future.
Dr. Stupid is offline  
post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 32
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Stupid View Post
There is no "worse". You both did the "worse". This is not a competition to see who is the least disloyal. If one were to truly follow your line of reasoning, you did "worse" because your marriage was a faithful union between two people before you stepped out.

Anything that happens after that is directly because of that, but she made her choices too, and she has to own them just as much as you will hopefully own yours... completely.

You have to own your infidelity, because there are lessons to be learned, so that you will never do it again, either to your current wife, or whomever else you pledge fidelity to in the future.
I agree. I have owned mine. I haven't fully forgave myself for it yet, but I am working on it. Mine was over 4 months ago. Hers was more recent. I agree it's not a contest, that's why I said that. However, for her not to own hers one bit is a tough pill to swallow.

Thanks for the advise on the 180 page, I am going to try to follow that to the best of my ability.

I am not sure I can make it six months like this. Maybe I can. There are also legal implications as well for waiting that long (as awful as it sounds), but I have to look out for myself as well. Our marriage counselor requested a solo session next week for the wife, so we will see how that goes. I had a solo one and explained a lot of things to him and we had a good talk. I believe he is trying to get her to see how her actions and attitude is causing more harm and disconnection in the marriage. I am not certain she will listen to him or what he will say.

She may come out of it ready to divorce, maybe not. I truly don't think she does. But I am also not going to be a door mat.

I hope this 180 thing will help me at least feel better, and then at the end of the day I will be okay regardless of the outcome.

I just started freaking out yesterday, no one wants to hear their spouse tell you to your face they are no longer attracted to you. I don't think it's physical, I think it's emotional. Hell, maybe it is physical, ha. Who the hell knows. I can't get her to talk to me the majority of the time, much less about any of this. She has completely shut down and shut me out.

Wee!

Thanks to all for your advise and time. Any further advise or questions is greatly appreciated. This is the toughest thing I have ever had to deal with in my entire life. I can say that with certainty.
Saddad44 is offline  
post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 01:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 443
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Even if your primary goal is reconciliation, you need to talk with a lawyer to understand the divorce laws in your State. For one thing, it is very unlikely that affairs will be any factor at all. What they will consider, however, is her addiction and its potential effects on the child. The focus of the court is centered around what is best for your child. At 10 years, and with your income difference and her earning potential, you could be facing some amount of alimony as well. You may be able to get 50/50 custody or better if you leverage the pothead thing, which could mean no child support payments.

Good luck. Most of us have been there and survived, but it is indeed a difficult journey.

OnTheRocks is online now  
post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 32
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheRocks View Post
Even if your primary goal is reconciliation, you need to talk with a lawyer to understand the divorce laws in your State. For one thing, it is very unlikely that affairs will be any factor at all. What they will consider, however, is her addiction and its potential effects on the child. The focus of the court is centered around what is best for your child. At 10 years, and with your income difference and her earning potential, you could be facing some amount of alimony as well. You may be able to get 50/50 custody or better if you leverage the pothead thing, which could mean no child support payments.

Good luck. Most of us have been there and survived, but it is indeed a difficult journey.

The state I live in automatically disqualifies a spouse from alimony or support if infidelity occurs. Hence why I am hesitant to 'wait' around to find out. The longer the wait, the more it appears to the court as condoning the affair. That is selfish, but at some point you have to be a little selfish. I still have a tiny thread of hope, and I have read and gotten advice that if you even have a tiny shroud of hope you should keep trying.

I agree with the maid thing, but my wife is a slob, always has been. She has never held up her end of the stay at home mom duties. A huge issue for all 10 years of the marriage. This is no different. The only difference is I am no longer willing to allow my child to live in filth and think it's okay.
Saddad44 is offline  
post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 32
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Also - I have had 3 lawyer consults already. None in the past 3-4 weeks because I thought we had agreed to work it out, but apparently not.
Saddad44 is offline  
post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 07:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 221
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Chemical abuse is a perfectly valid reason to dissolve a marriage and separate yourself from that person so they don't drag you down with them.

You were perfectly in your right to separate from her and give serious consideration to divorcing her and moving on with your own life.

Someone smoking pot all day, every day has no business being alone with minor children. A drug test mandated by the court should have a significant bearing on child custody.

A person who's brain is under the influence of intoxicants does not function right. period.

That person will not think and reason right. Will not respond to situations right. Will not feel or react emotionally right. And will function or perform to the degree of a sane and sober person who is not under the influence.

You are completely within your right morally, ethically and legally to separate from your wife, file for divorce and file for sole custody of your child until she can pass serial drug tests and secure full time employment.

As far as I am concerned, the infidelities that have occurred here are red herrings that mean nothing more than a distraction and drama that is further complicating the root issues here.

IMHO your guilt is what is holding you back and what is causing you to vacillate and not move forward with what you know needs to be done.

It's time to pull up your Big-Boy Pants and be the sane, sober adult here. Suck it and do what you know you need to do. Forgive yourself your indiscretion and grab yourself by the sack and do what you need to do.

You child needs one sane, sober, responsible adult here and it certainly ain't the pothead. Be the man and the father that your child needs and do what gots to be done inspite of the fact that you have your own demons.
oldshirt is offline  
post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 07:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,260
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

See, you want to make it work where she is not motivated to make it work. As long as she has the power to care less than you do, then her actions will show it. You are currently a doormat that she is stepping on because she has little respect for you. I was raised in a broken home where the parents stayed together and tried committing suicide as a way to escape. At least, if you are separated from her you can create a stable environment. I had no respect for either parent in my case. Keeping together the family came at the expense of all involved including the abuse and constant arguments. It took a lot of therapy to learn to undo all the behavior I have learned from my very own parents. Your child can learn from you is someone that does not respect and stand up for their very own self. If your child loses respect for you, then you have lost at being an authority figure and seen as weak while your wife is also a detrimental, poor parent as a role model as well. Your child will pick up on your traits or her's, possibly a combination of both as children are nearly blank slates learning how to interact and behave in society.

Your home is already broken but you live in denial about it. If your home has a high possibility of producing a broken future adult as this is his home environment, where stability matters, that especially includes the mental and emotional health of the parents involved. You can say what you want to say but children learn by emulating behavior. Actions show more than words can ever teach.

Don't kid yourself that your home is not broken. If we play the odds game, your current situation would likely breeed highly dysfunctional children. If you wre to separate and work on yourself, at least there is a better chance of one good role model and possibly you can find a better mate to show what a loving couple is suppose to look like.

Children do not need both parents, stability plays a much better role and great role models is part of that stability.

Even if your wife never cheated and you were the only one to do so, I would say, fine, feel guilty or whatever, but still detach as your wife is toxic to you and your child. Grow and move on and change how you respond, know your weakness and learn to leave before you reach this level where your spouse is highly removed from your decision. You want her to change and give you the love you want from her and she made the choice to deny you your needs. Chasing her and pleading only shows her she does not have to take your words seriously because you are still there waiting. Why should she change in any way if you will choose to live with the person she is. There is no incentive to change or not enough pain.

I am such a tree hugger because it gives me wood!
Mr.Fisty is offline  
post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-11-2017, 07:59 PM
Forum Supporter
 
CynthiaDe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,605
Re: Both Messed Up - Spouse won't try...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddad44 View Post
The state I live in automatically disqualifies a spouse from alimony or support if infidelity occurs. Hence why I am hesitant to 'wait' around to find out. The longer the wait, the more it appears to the court as condoning the affair. That is selfish, but at some point you have to be a little selfish. I still have a tiny thread of hope, and I have read and gotten advice that if you even have a tiny shroud of hope you should keep trying.

I agree with the maid thing, but my wife is a slob, always has been. She has never held up her end of the stay at home mom duties. A huge issue for all 10 years of the marriage. This is no different. The only difference is I am no longer willing to allow my child to live in filth and think it's okay.
You have got to be kidding. What on earth! You have the nerve to think you can use adultery as a reason to divorce and to get a better deal after you are the one who started all this. You are apparently too blind to realize that you broke your wife's heart and she has not in any way, shape, or form recovered. In fact she had a revenge affair. She didn't do it because she was interested in the man. She did it to get back at you. To punish you for your affair. She is extremely angry with you, which would explain her extreme pot usage. It calms her down. I don't know which would be worse: the constantly stoned wife or the screaming, freaking out, screaming wife that you would get if she weren't stoned. Probably #2 so she could at least get it out and maybe start dealing with her pain. You have made yourself one seriously messed up situation.

I'm not saying your wife isn't responsible for her terrible behavior or that what she did was right. It wasn't, but it is extremely hypocritical and mean for you to try to use her adultery against her. If you do and if your attorney is foolish enough to go that route, all of your adultery would be exposed and it would probably fall right back into your lap.

Again not excusing her, but it seems to me that you must be utterly clueless to be so dense about the severity of your wife's pain. You obviously have not dealt well with the aftermath of the earthquake you caused. Am I saying your wife's adultery was your fault. Hm... I really want to say yes, but nope, that's on her. However you created the storm and she made bad choices on how to deal with it.

Now you should stop thinking about how you can get the best deal in the divorce, but on thinking what you can do to help your wife recover from the terrible shock and pain she went through so she can calm down, heal, and be a good mom to your child.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
For more on my marriage philosophies check out the marriage section of my website:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Standard Evidence Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CynthiaDe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spouse can not move past the affair! usnboone Coping with Infidelity 43 01-03-2017 05:17 PM
How to Have a Healthy Talk About Finances with Your Spouse VS Glen Home Page Feature News 0 12-29-2016 08:31 AM
5 Things Your Spouse Needs to Hear Everyday VS Glen Home Page Feature News 17 04-13-2016 02:58 PM
Tips for Starting a Hard Conversation with Your Spouse VS Glen Home Page Feature News 0 03-30-2016 03:10 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome