how does guilt consume a wayward spouse? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

User Tag List

 48Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:01 PM
Member
 
She'sStillGotIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Back east
Posts: 701
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Abbie, 'affair fog' is just another self-soothing term a betrayed spouse uses to explain why their cheater is acting like an arrogant, classless ass-clown.

Truth is, it's not some magical 'fog' at all. It's the sad fact that he IS an arrogant, classless ass-clown.

I've had the misfortune of spending some time with a few of these types in my past. That's why they're in my past.

She'sStillGotIt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 209
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
thank you Emerging Buddist - very wise advice and yes, at 51 i'm very anxious of being on my own, even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.
But will likely hurt you again.

51 is not an issue. If you take care of yourself physically and go about your life with a positive outlook, you'll have a lineup of interested men.

Good thing is you are not married. Get out now, you'll get over it soon enough and look back as it being a great decision.

On the other hand, staying with him you'll eventually look back at that decision being not so great.
manwithnoname is online now  
post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:09 PM
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 611
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
thank you - the hardest part for me was he asked for another chance and then backtracked.....i agree with Jessica however that they are in 'affair fog' for quite a while usually and this blinds them.
He will continue to be in the Affair fog for as long as he is in contact with the OW. Look, unless he's cut all possibility of contact with her, you will be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your relationship.

He's already given her a year of your relationship. 10 years will go by and before you know it, you'll be 61 and still dealing with this.
Jessica38 is offline  
 
post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:17 PM
Forum Supporter
 
Emerging Buddhist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: World-wide
Posts: 1,380
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
thank you Emerging Buddist - very wise advice and yes, at 51 i'm very anxious of being on my own, even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.
51 years young?

Doors open and close for all reasons... we cannot find the love we should if we keep it locked with the one we shouldn't.

Choice my friend, it's all us.

नमस्ते 🙏

Last edited by Emerging Buddhist; 04-15-2017 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Mindful adding of a missed word... ;0
Emerging Buddhist is offline  
post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 209
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
He will continue to be in the Affair fog for as long as he is in contact with the OW. Look, unless he's cut all possibility of contact with her, you will be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your relationship.

He's already given her a year of your relationship. 10 years will go by and before you know it, you'll be 61 and still dealing with this.
Good point, except that she'll be looking over her shoulder even if he cuts all contact with her. He'll just start with another one, he's certainly capable.
manwithnoname is online now  
post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 7
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!
abbie666 is offline  
post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 02:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Warm in the summer, cold in the winter
Posts: 2,198
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


His outlook changed because he can no longer deny or lie about the affair. With that said he is too shallow and weak to do the hard work he will have to do. Now you know, you exposed him to OW and he is realizing his fantasy is forever changed, unless he doesn't have to do what is right with you. This is why he sits in the fence deciding what it is exactly that he should do.

Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see.


Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
drifting on is offline  
post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 02:35 PM
Member
 
Mizzbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 187
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

abbie - I think some people respond differently under pressure to how we would prefer. But I also think that how they are in such a crisis tells us a great deal about them and their priorities.

I am a BS myself. And I can say that you have many things to work through yourself in order to even think about having a meaningful, fulfilling relationship with this man. Reconcilation is hard work - for both parties. And if your partner is all focused on himself, on how sorry and sad his life is (and maybe even how much he should be ashamed about his actions) then he doesn't have a lot left over for you. And you are going to need a lot. If your partner is not desperate to save your relationship, if his focus is not on your pain rather than his own, then you are not starting your journey off under favourable winds.

The one thing that I have seen over and over again on this forum is that successful reconcilers (the ones who may be scarred by their partner's infidelity, but who have emerged from it stronger, wiser and more sure of their place in the world then they were before) get themselves to a place where they CHOOSE to remain with their WS. They do not stay out of NEED and loneliness or the fear of starting over again. Believe me, we all understand that fear. I wrestle with it often.

I'm going to recommend that you hold off on deciding what to do about your partner, until you're ready to make that decision - whatever way it goes. FWIW, I agree with many of the posters here that he doesn't sound like he deserves either your forgiveness or your effort. But, ultimately this is your decision to make.

But, right now, start living your life for you. Find meaning for yourself in the things you do. Re-connect with friends and interests that bring you joy. Cook food that you like. See the movies that you enjoy. Plan your life so that you don't need him to be happy. When you shift the source of your contentment away from him to yourself, then you can also be in place to choose wisely, rather than out of desperation.

I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more. ― C.S. Lewis

FINE PRINT: My post is simply my own opinion (unless indicated otherwise). Which I believe I am entitled to express, as best as I can.
Mizzbak is offline  
post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 02:36 PM
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 611
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!
Significant to whom? It wasn't significant enough to him to keep him from dating other women.

Like I pointed out before, it's highly likely that he's mourning his other woman, not paralyzed by guilt. I have to ask, and I mean this respectfully: Why would you stay with a man who only stopped cheating on you after his other girlfriend dumped him? And if he's as successful at getting you to forgive him, don't you think he's going to try the same with her? After all, she's the one who got away.

I'm not saying this to hurt you. I'm saying this because this is how it seems to me. Get out. You're 51...you have another 2 decades to enjoy dating and life. It's not that much time.
Jessica38 is offline  
post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 03:25 PM
Member
 
Affaircare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,852
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!
Hi @abbie666,

I was a disloyal spouse, so I want to explain something to you from a disloyal spouse point of view. He is not paralyzed by guilt. Think about it. When a person REALLY WANTS something, deep down, they find a way to do it ...even when they know it's wrong or they can't afford it or whatever. So when a person says they "can't" what they mean is that they do not want it, and so they are going to come up with a reason to not do what they don't want to do.

When I was cheating, my Dear Hubby spoke to the OM and spoke to me, and I was ready to end it and really, deep down, wanted to stop. So you know what I did? I didn't sit around for weeks moping and paralyzed. That same day I deleted Facebook and chat programs and email addresses--any way that we had been in touch were IMMEDIATELY deleted and I made sure Dear Hubby knew, and could see, and confirmed that everything was gone. I moved my computer screen so that it faced in a direction so he could ALWAYS see it--so anything I'm ever writing, he can see it any time he feels like. I don't "minimize the screen" EVER because I do not hide things from him--he is welcome to be part of my life and know my thoughts. He is INCLUDED.

And yep, I felt deeply ashamed of myself and like I was eating some crow, but you know what? It was okay because in real life I acted poorly and deserved it--not self flagellation but reality meant that to build trust, I had to start at the bottom and work my way up, right?

So my point in all this is to somewhat explain what True Repentance "looks like." It doesn't look like sitting still and doing nothing. It doesn't look like "paralyzed with guilt." It looks like taking ACTION. It looks like being afraid to tell the truth but doing it ANYWAY. See if you are not seeing action, then what you're seeing is someone who a) does not want to feel the painful consequences of their own choices, and b) does not have the courage to say "no" out loud. But actions speak louder than words--and his actions right now are very clear: I don't want to act in a loving way toward you. I don't want to be held responsible for my actions. I don't want to reconcile.


Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this! * Weightlifter's Evidence Gathering Post for Newbies * The Man Up Nice Guy Reference
Affaircare is offline  
post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 04:55 PM
Member
 
Vinnydee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southern USA, but longtime NYC boy prior to our move.
Posts: 644
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

I felt lots of guilt the first time I cheated. Swore I never would do it again. My wife forgave me and I cheated 3 more times that year knowing that she never once mentioned a divorce. After that she decided that I was not going to change from the poly person she knew I was long before we even met, so she joined me in some groups sex that led to her falling in love with her best girlfriend who was part of our marriage for 30 of its 44 years.

I know the guilt thing and nothing more emboldened a cheater than knowing that his or her spouse is afraid to divorce or leave them. The married women I dated had been all caught before, went through the guilt trip but, when you see that it has no serious consequences, the guilt goes away. I have been cheated on and cheated. I have been poly for most of my adult life too. So I know the unnatural chains of monogamy and the freedom of poly. I know how it feels to cheat and how it feels to be cheated on.

It does get easier the next time. The problem is that a person's past behavior is a pretty good indicator of their future behavior. There was a good article on the CNN website this week. It is amazing how so many people accept a form of relationship that fails 50% of the time rather than try something that may save the marriage. You can read the article here:

Rethinking monogamy today - CNN.com

The problem is that it takes an very long time to regain trust and even when you do, it will never be the same as it was at the beginning. You will be forever suspicious of him, bring it up in arguments and he will grow to resent it over time. There are no winners when one partner cheats. I was lucky in that my wife did not want to be monogamous either. She was a virgin and curious about sex with others. Then she started to have a desire for women as I already did I. We both thought that it was crazy to try to live in a marriage structured many thousands of years ago, in a time when the reasons for monogamy had a real purpose. So we restructured our marriage to fit us and it thrived for 44 years. It should be noted that between us there were less than 10 outside lovers, with 4 in the second year of marriage, over our 44 years together. That is less than many married people I know who cheat have, in just a few years of marriage.

Not trying to sell you on my lifestyle because you need the right mindset and emotional control to make it work. I just cannot understand why so many rather go down with the ship rather then find another ship to stay afloat on. Sex with another during a marriage is only the terrible sin it is perceived as because we say so. No matter how advanced we think we are, we still cling to some aspects of marriage being an ownership of each other or at least the ownership of physical pleasure of each other.

Hope you work it out. I never loved my wife less when I was with another women and the same goes for my wife. We always held each other and our marriage above all else and it worked for us. What I do not like about cheating is the lying and deceiving that it forces you to engage in. The sex part does not bother me as I never felt that my wife's sexual pleasure belonged to me. It is hers to do with as she wishes, as long as I have her heart.

Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality.
Vinnydee is offline  
post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 06:06 PM
Member
 
Bibi1031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: texas
Posts: 1,803
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!
It is actually very common for a cheater to have an exit affair and burn all the bridges with the left behind. that is what your partner was doing and you foolishly listened to your heart when it should be your logic that guides this terrible journey his selfishness threw you into.

Guilt my bouncy behind! You are not behaving according to his sordid plan. He wanted to string you along until he was ready to set nest elsewhere. You threw a couple of monkey wrenches by telling his Ow and by wanting his cheating, undeserving arse back.

He does not love you! He will not get that love back. You taking him back will only cause him to further get away from you emotionally. You can't win a war that was lost a while back.

Let him go. He will not love you again, but will indeed disrespect you even further.

Stop the pain now, get your self respect back. An exit affair is very different from any other affair. When your WS commits this type of affair, you relationship is dust. It is just that you weren't told and he has a long journey of detachment ahead of you.

You can't compete with that. No battles to be won when the war is already over.

I speak from experience, set yourself free.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
Bibi1031 is offline  
post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:01 PM
Member
 
MovingFrwrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 232
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

It doesn't - unless they are truly remorseful. I hate say it, but there it is.
MovingFrwrd is offline  
post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 11:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 622
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by queenmary View Post
I believe that thru therapy and time we could get past this and ....
If you aren't in therapy, I would highly recommend it. .
Therapy is all well and good, there's a time and place for it.

I can tell you for a fact that in most betrayals therapy is not a good substitute for a good divorce lawyer.

The best thing I ever did to "therapy" my dignity back was to aggressively pursue a divorce and put space and time between me and my betrayer.

There are many therapists making good money off betrayed people by keeping them in limbo relationships.
commonsenseisn't is offline  
post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 02:32 AM
Member
 
aine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Away and beyond in a hot place
Posts: 2,958
Re: how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbie666 View Post
I have been living with my partner for seven years and have had very many happy times - we are not married but it didn't mean we were less committed emotionally. Around a year ago, I started having suspicions that he was having an affair but there was always some almost plausible explanation ....then came the abusive comments and the distance.....things became unbearable at home until I found a hotel receipt at the end of November. I packed his things and made him leave......not out of anger, but because i simply couldn't cope any more and was desperately upset..

He again came up with semi plausible excuse and promised to prove it to me that he wasn't at that hotel.....then wrote many loving emails saying how he was lost without me and wanted to be home.....

Fast forward to March and still the promise of proof but nothing forthcoming and I was becoming more and more impatient and cold towards him. During all of this time, he had spent Saturdays/Sundays with me and I continued to receive loving texts and emails, flowers. Then I dug deeper myself and finally got the proof that he had been at the hotel with someone - I looked her up and called her.

I was lucky on one level as she was very honest with me and we went through everything. She was completely shocked as he had said he was single and he had lied about his age....she is 20 years his junior and he had lied continuously to her as well. The night of the hotel bill was in fact their first time...but they had met up for meals after work and bars for nearly the entire year and had been friends. He had continued seeing her albeit infrequently whilst supposedly desperate to move home.

The discovery of this has hit me very hard and there are days I just cannot function. A month on, the pain is still intense but after being asked to try and forgive and think about a second chance, I decided the pain of losing him out of my life would be even worse. And so we started to talk.

And this is where I am now even more confused..... from that minute of me saying I would try...he claims to be so overwhelmed with guilt and shame that he is struggling to re engage. He is convinced I will never trust him (it will be a long journey yes but I'm confident i can if we get therapy) and just does not respond with any reassuring or loving words, just reasons why it will be difficult. The affair is definitely over. Is this a normal pattern as all i seem to read is wayward spouses doing everything they can to return to their wives/partners. He says he wants to be home but needs time to work out how to engage. It all seems to be about him ...STILL! I have ended up being the supportive one and am now wondering whether I am kidding myself here and perhaps its just him not wanting to be back but will not tell me. or can extreme feelings of guilt and shame do this?

I should also add that his mother died the day i found out and he has also been dealing with his grief over that.

any help would be really appreciated as i feel i am going mad!!

You are married to a very selfish man.

You need to focus on yourself, get counselling for yourself, build yourself and your self esteem up. When you do this you may discover that you can live without such a man in your life.

Not only did he have an affair, lie to you about it, treat you terribly before you kicked him out but now he expects you to help him pick up the pieces.
To my mind his apparent guilt is nor remorse, it is still all about him! He broke it so he must fix it and you have to stop being so co-dependent and make him responsible for the damage he has done. If you do not you will end up resenting him in the long term.

I think he is just biding his time, you are plan B. Get out while you can. If he really wanted to fix it, he could.
aine is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
guilt, shame, wayward

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you approach the "No sex means divorce" talk with your *nice* spouse wilson Sex in Marriage 152 09-18-2016 11:34 PM
Has anyone had their wayward spouse take a polygraph? Jacksgirl37 Coping with Infidelity 30 08-16-2016 06:42 PM
Tips for Starting a Hard Conversation with Your Spouse VS Glen Home Page Feature News 0 03-30-2016 03:10 PM
My brother's suspicion maritalloneliness Coping with Infidelity 23 12-08-2015 04:51 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome