Wolfgar

I read this from the newbie post and it’s really helped to explain the situation I'm in right now.

"Hysterical Bonding – Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding.

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build.

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!”




As most of you know, my WW had a 2 month long EA/PA that came to an end a month ago. Now we're back together working on things and having sex like crazy (almost every day), but I’m still in excruciating emotional pain.

It seems like hysterical bonding is exactly what I’m experiencing and although I’m not complaining about the amazing sex, I feel like it’s enabling her to rug sweep. It does help with the emotional pain I’m dealing with (although temporarily), but it’s like trying to attach a served limb using a bandaid. Basically a week after the OM left her I let her move back in and we’ve been having sex ever since…what kind of message does that send her? I feel like she hasn’t really felt any of the consequences of her affair nor had the time she needs to figure things out and actually learn from this (which is most important to me). I don’t want to fall into false R. On her side of things, she has expressed remorse, she feels ashamed, naive, like a horrible person, she wants to do whatever it takes to fix things. But outside of her words, I haven’t seen much action and I think it’s partly b/c the sex and her thinking things are back to normal. I’ve read that WS’s will always want to rug sweep and are in a hurry to get things to back to how they were and that’s exactly how she’s acting.

Also, this is from a conversation we had the other night …she says she feels like there’s nothing she can do to fix things or that at least she doesn’t know how to fix them. That what she did was too horrible. She’s told me that she can’t promise me she’d never do this again because she never thought it was possible for her to do this in the first place. I’ve told her that I still love her and I want to be with her. I told her I’ve given you this chance to show me you’re worth it and I feel like you’re not doing much with it. I also told her how I can understand that our non stop sex has probably confused her into thinking things were alright, but that they weren’t. Every day I’m still dealing with extreme pain. She said she’s still committed to doing whatever it takes and that she’ll try harder.

A few questions for you guys…

1. What do you think of this hysterical bonding, is that what I’m experiencing? Has anyone else experienced it? I feel like something’s wrong with me, like I shouldn’t want to touch her at all (or at least not this much).

2. “She can’t promise me she’d never do this again because she never thought it was possible for her to do this in the first place”. What do you think of that statement? She says this b/c 4 years ago she had a EA/phone sex with another man while we were legally separated. After that ended, she felt disgusted in herself (same as she does now), she promised me she would never let anything like that happen again, and she thought she had learned from that mistake. Turns out she didn’t. So I can understand in a way how she feels, her whole idea of who she thought she was as a person has been shaken. She feels like she doesn’t know herself and that something’s wrong with her. But how can I dedicate my life to a person like this? I shouldn’t have to always worry about her succumbing to weakness again.

3. The “how and why”, am I obsessing over it? Is there really even an explanation? I feel like to truly learn from this she has to understand how she let it get to this point. How does she go from a loving wife of high moral value, turning every guy that hits on her away…to a women that carries on a secret affair with a married at the expense of her husband and family (and his), and keeps doing so even after she’s been caught? I’ve asked her how/why she let this happen and I haven’t got much of an answer.

4. Any advice on achieving real R? How do you know if it’s false R? Anything I should be doing or requesting her to do? At this point I know we both love each other, but I feel like perhaps we’re “star-crossed” lovers, we have so much baggage/resentment in our relationship. I’m not sure how we can move on from this and the last thing I want to do is rug sweep and experience this again a few years down the road. As of now we have yet to go to MC (we plan on it), she’s going to IC, there’s been NC with OM, she’s still working at the bar (she knows she needs to find something else), I have all of her passwords, gps on her phone, and I truly believe she wants to learn from this and make our marriage work…she just doesn’t know how. She’s told me these past few weeks together have been some of the best she can remember.

jnj express

The so called HB--is probably you re-claiming your territory/marking what is yours
Also you are trying to prove to yourself, and her, you are better than her lover

It will all end soon enuff----
She is using it to get your mind off the terrible thing she has done to you, the mge., and the family------to take the blame away from herself

What has she actually by actions done, to further your mge., and prove to you she is worthy of being back in the marital family

What consequences/boundaries--have you placed on her----where is the accountability

What do you really feel when you touch/look at/talk to her-----
where is this really going-----where do you intend to take it---this is spose to be your ball game played by your rules---right now, she by using sex, is probably contolling what is going on, and you are allowing it, to happen

Do you enjoy knowing she is back with you---ONLY cuz her lover dumped her---so she had no where else to go---and obviously she knew, all she had to do, was get close to you, and you would cave----so once again----where are you taking this---knowing she repeatedly cheats on you, yet if she offers sex, you slide it all under the rug!!!!!

FourtyPlus

There was lots of HB after Dday for me. I didn't take it as "forgiveness" but it was in stark contrast to the daily triggers my husband had. I couldn't believe how he could have sex with me and I wondered what he thought every time he looked at me. HB coupled with the effects of the A on my husband didn't make sense to me at all and I remember questioning his motives for wanting all this sex to begin with. I simply didn't see the logic behind it. Kind of like you get caught stealing something from a store and instead of getting punished you get daily rewards. Makes no sense, right?
I guess I was expecting some kind of punishment, not love making.

dymo

I'm sorry, but if having amazing sex with your wife is considered a form of rug-sweeping, maybe we're taking the definition of rug-sweeping a little too far.

HerToo

My wife has become more sexual since my affair. I enjoy it during, but afterwards I feel like we used each other.

Tall Average Guy

Have you been to IC and MC? As I recall, you admitted in your original thread to a couple of ONS prior to your wife's EA/PA. You both swept that under the rug, so it is not surprising that you would do so again. I think there is a whole lot of work that both of you need to do, both individually and together, to figure this out.

Wolfgar

I agree with you on “re-claiming” my territory, it’s almost as if it’s some animalistic instinct. Although, I wouldn’t say she’s using it...in fact she doesn’t understand why I even want to even touch her (it’s mostly me initiating everything). She cries and talks about how painful it is now, knowing how I look at her and feel about her (she think’s I’m disgusted in her and hate her).

Her lack of action is the main problem. She says she wants to do whatever it takes to make things work, but at the same time she can’t even promise me (or herself) she’d never do this again. That what she did is too horrible and there’s no way she can fix it. I think she’s still lost and doesn’t know how to amend her horrible betrayal. More IC will hopefully help her with this.

What consequences/boundaries? This is where I’m a bit lost myself, what consequences/boundaries should I be placing on her? I think she needs more accountability to learn from this. She knows that if she even talks to the OM again I’m completely done with her, she’s agreed to my terms of R (even the post-nup giving up her custodial rights as a parent if she cheats again…or me), I have all passwords to her account, she knows I have gps on her phone now and she’s fine with it, she tries her best to be loving and affectionate to me. But what upsets me is she never wants to talk about the affair or the problems that got us to that point. We def need MC.

My emotions are constantly up and down, one minute I look at her with love and I’m just happy I have her back…the next looking at her immediately enrages me. Same goes for touching/intimacy, it’s heavenly at times…the next all I can think about is her being with OM (is this what she did to him type stuff). She knows right now I have all the power in this relationship.

Of course I don’t like feeling like the 2nd option to the OM, outside of the affair it’s self that’s been the hardest thing for me to get over. Knowing that if I had never exposed him to his wife, she’d still be with him. I make myself feel better by knowing that she wasn’t herself, caught up in the fog…that she didn’t pick him over me, she picked the excitement and thrill she got. She never loved him, but her emotions were growing…perhaps would have turned into love. I do feel like I made things way to easy on her and I should have let her sweat a while before letting her move back in. I guess my pass indiscretions made it feel hypocritical for me to punish her in that way (even though I feel like that’s the only way she could have really learned from this, is to feel the real consequences of her actions.

Wolfgar

@fourtyplus
That’s exactly how my wife feels. She doesn’t understand why I’m so sexual with her, especially after talking about the affair and the pain I’m going through. I feel like in her mind she believes I think she’s a *****, so I’m treating her as such.

@dymo
Like I said I’m not complaining about the sex, I just think its confusing her and keeping her from facing the problems that got us into this mess. She still doesn’t even understand how/why she let this happen when we were relatively happy in our marriage. She consciously crossed that infidelity line and had zero remorse for doing so at the time. The only thing that somewhat explains it to me is her working environment, she was a different person before working at her bar. She saw a different exciting life style and she had plenty of men at the bar trying to give it to her, she finally caved after the right/persistent guy came along.

@Tall Average Guy
No I haven’t been to IC, but I’m looking into it. I’ve also been reading up on lexapro, I think perhaps it could help me get through this. I’m so tired of dealing with this constant up and down rollercoaster of emotions, every day is still so painful to me and it seems like the more time that goes by, the more my BS fog clears and the more I feel like what she did is unforgivable. But at the same time I love her more than anything. She constantly asks me how or why I would want to be with a person like her. My ons weren’t really swept under the rug, I think she just realizes the difference. We weren’t married and I was in college…and the other time was when we were separated and she was having her EA/phone sex with another man. I agree, lots of work is going to need to be done. She feels like its impossible for us to get pass this and for me to forgive her…and I might agree with her

DesperateHeart

I say enjoy the hysterical bonding! I just wish mine lasted longer! Fizzled out after what I thought was EA turned out to be PA....can't even sort out my feelings about sex!

As long as you aren't rug sweeping, which looks like you have no intention of doing so, just enjoy the parts you can. But yeah, you need to come down harder on her about doing her share of heavy lifting.

jnj express

Hey Sean---your pre--nup, is now actually a POST--NUP, and it must contain a duress clause.

As to boundaries---you need to include, basically NO MORE MEN AT ALL, WHATSOEVER, unless they are complete friends, of your mge., and they have wives, and are basically long time friends of yours---any other man, is taboo/off limits---she doesn't even look cross-eyed at them

No GNO, for the time bieng---ALL OF HER TIME IS TO BE SPENT WITH THE FAMILY

As to heavy lifting, she MUST make an attempt to help you when you are in pain, from visions, triggers, due to her disrespect, and lack of caring by having her A.

She is to be completely transparent, in all possible ways---and she needs to be banned, from any social websites.

There must be actionable consequences, that are there for her to understand, and know the result, should she violate ANYTHING!!!!!!

Wolfgar

@jnj express

The problem is, before all this happened that's exactly how she was. I honestly thought she was the perfect wife and I had NOTHING to worry about. She had zero contact with men (outside of her bar customers ), she's not into the internet or social websites...all she does is shop, she really has no girl friends and she hardly ever went out with anyone besides me (in fact I told her she needs to find some friends and do things), and she's about as transparent as she can be. So if that's where we were before and the affair still happened, I'm not sure how any of that would prevent another one. I think the key to all this is the toxic environment of working at her bar...and her weakness as a person. Both of these things need to change (her finding a new job and IC/MC)

Pit-of-my-stomach

I think this phenomenon can be attributed to massive and sudden changes in brain chemistry, the over production of certain (protective, ie; fight/flight) hormones and neurotransmitters (reaction to extreme emotional pain/duress) which results in a inability for the brain to produce other neurotransmitters. Oxytocin to be specific. (commonly referred to as the "bonding drug"). The chemical imbalance and withdrawal makes the melon go haywire producing dopamine to motivate a person to seek a known source of oxytocin. All fairly complicated brain chemistry mumbo jumbo, im just spouting this off the top of my head from memory... Could give you better details later, but i believe it is in essense "drug withdrawal" of sorts which motivates this hysterical bonding...
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I Know

SHE WORKS IN A BAR? And she can't promise she won't cheat again because she doesn't know how it happened in the first place. Dude. You need a roadmap

You need to read the thread on this site by "almost recovered" about his wife's cheating. Don't remember where it is right now. But he successfully confronted his wife's affair. He DEMANDED accountability from his wife. You need to as well.

RelationshipCoach

Hello,

Yes, hysterical bonding is very real and it is what you are experiencing right now. You can expect that after this stage that you will come off of the stage with some sort of a let down so your reconciliation has not happened yet. You're actually in the beginning stages of it.

So as much as your wife wants to sweep what happened under the rug, it's not going to happen that easily. It also helps to know that her recovery won't come until later. It may not seem fair to you now but it all will make sense later on when she will have the aha moment of what she really did. She hasn't gotten to that point yet because she is the state of emergency where all she wants to do is repair repair repair.

You'll feel as though you need punish her for a while...these are your emotions from the affair. It's all of the pain you feel and it's all of the pain that you need process before you're able to do anything else in this marriage.

Right now, it's important that you focus more on yourself than you focus on her. You need to heal yourself and your pain from what she has done.

As far as what she has said about how she can't promise she won't do it again - I actually can see what she is talking about. My husband says that she will never cheat again however, I do not take that because he once said he would never cheat. He never thought he would before and now that he has - who's to say that he wouldn't again. So your wife brings up a good point - how can any one of us ever say that we wouldn't never do anything? We would never think we would cheat on our spouse but so many people do it for many different reasons. I would take that as her being completely honest with you... I know it doesn't feel very comforting right now but I think with time you will start to realize what she truly means by it. At this point, she doesn't really trust herself because she probably can believe how much agony she has caused. This is probably an issue that she really needs to start dealing with as well but right now as I said before - she is in damage control mode...she wants to make sure she doesn't mess anything else up to make you leave...

Keep on moving...you are doing exactly what you should be doing.
Relationship Repair Coach

Wolfgar

Yep She wants to leave her job, but right now she's our main source of income. She's going to start lookin for another job she's promised me asap. I also have the option of moving out of state and making good $$$ doing oil pipeline work, but there's no way I'm willing to leave her alone this soon after the A. Anyhow, right now I feel like she is totally committed to making things work and after the fog lifted she's realized what a slimball pos the OM is (and herself). Last thing she wants is to have anything to do with him...but who knows if he were to wander into the bar and try sweet talking her. I am still in contact with his wife and she has him on lock down and has gps on his phone, so i'm sure I'd find out regardless. She's on her way home from work right now and sent me a few texts, "mwuah I missed u today", followed by..."hope your down for some f!ucking when I get home".

I've told her she NEEDS to figure out how she let this happened, if not for me...than for herself and our kids. They deserve a strong mother with good morals, that's not just going to fall into an A and not even know why or how it happened.

I haven't had any luck finding the post you suggested. Anyone know what he's talking about?