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post #31 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:15 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

Thestars, there are problems in your husband and in your marriage. I don't think you will be able to effectively deal with them until you get a handle on YOUR problem first. It looks to me like some form of codependency. I honestly believe that when you get this issue under control you will be able to handle the others. It seems to me that your husband is holding you hostage by using your codependency issues as leverage over you.

Once you get yourself fixed, you like us, will wonder why you didn't divorce this guy earlier. Good luck to you.

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post #32 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 12:10 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by Thestarsarefalling View Post
I appreciate your bluntness. He really had no business see her outside of work at all. He should have told me about all of this before I found out. If it was all innocent why hide it? He didn't think I would find out. That was the same excuse he used last time.

I don't think it was an ongoing affair but doesn't it really matter? He keeps important secrets from me and I can't trust him. I told him 5 years ago that if I caught him communicating with her behind my back it would be over.

There is no doubt that his life with me is better than his life without me will be. I run most of our life's, pay our bills, keep in touch with friends and family. I took care of his parents when they died. Last time I told our friends and family what was happening and when we divorce they will all know even if I don't say anything this time. His life will suck until he finds another women to take care of him. Probably will find comfort with the same OW and she will be my child's step mom. Sorry, I will try not to go there until I have too.
So are you going to follow through?
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post #33 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:33 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

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I have really appciated reading messages on this board because everything that I went through 5 years ago and now again feels validated. It makes me so angry to think how cynical I am now. It's hard to tell the story without getting carried away but I will try to keep it simple.

5 years age my DH found a co worker that he got involved with. I may never truly know exactly what happen for sure ( b/c who ever can know). I believe this OW was very friendly and stroked his ego. I had been preoccupied having a baby and caring for his disabled mother. I left out of town to see family for a few days and came back to a changed guy. He would say I need to learn how to do things because he didnt think he would be around to do them for me. He would tell me to be more independent. He started getting home late, like 3 hrs late. When he left his email window open I discovered emails of texts that he saved to reminisce about. It was flirty and definitely bad. When confronted he admitted it and explained that she was so wonderful. He complained that I am too cold, not interested in his hobbies, and not spontaneous enough. She makes him feel so good.

A few months before I had wanted a new phone but we ended up buying him a new phone instead and I took his old one. This meant I had is phone directory and I called the OW. She said she had thought our marriage was already over and she was trying to be a good friend to my husband. I am ashamed to say I did reminder her I could tell their employer and hurt her career if she continued to talk to my husband at all. She agreed.

Looking back I think my DH was starting an Exit Affair. I don't think it got physical. I scared away the OW so he didn't end up leaving. I left him for 3 months but came home because it was my house and I wanted to at least try to R. He didn't really want me to come back.

He was half hearted and passive about making things work. The first year he was depressed and moody and refused to let me have acesss to his emails and texts. I could look at our phone records if needed. He wanted me to change and I did try for a while. Mostly he wanted me to clean better and be super interested in his hobbies. He said he wanted to be admired.

I read a lot of books and decided I was too co depenant and passively aggressive. I tried to rely less on my DH for happiness. I got a job I loved and gave me confidence. I did things that made me happy. I stopped caring about what my DH thought of me because he always has bad things to say. I reached a point where I didn't care to read his texts or emails because if he wanted another women she could have him. That is unti this week.

We have been in a pretty good place the last year but not perfect. There have been many times I thought about leaving but decided I loved my DH and I loved being around him. He is funny and interesting. Our child is also a big reason too.

I was completely shocked when he accidentally called me during a meeting with the same OW. It was hard to tell for sure what they were saying but it was clear he was trying to leave and she was upset and complaining he had to leave to pick up our son from school. When I told my husband he admitted it but it is very different this time. He said that he had met her to help her pick out a pet and they had met a month ago so he could help her pick out an item that he knows a lot about. Both times were around his Hobbies. The OW relationship had just broken up and she was crying over that. She has been coming around the area he works after years of staying away. He doesn't have her new number or email. They verbally decided to meet, he said it was him who offered.

My first thought was that its over but he does seem truthful when he says he wants to fix our marriage now. He seems willing and more open this time. He is willing to give me access to his phone and emails. I believe him but am also suspicious. There are so many ways now to hide messages that I can't possibly keep up with. I suspect she wasn't as fun to hang out with as he thought and he was testing the waters.

We have been married for 15 years and I don't see mine or our child's life better without him so I am giving him a few months to show me he can try to fix things but I kind of doubt him. He loves to find my problems but we can't usually make it over to his problems at all. Everyone will probably tell me to go but if it was that easy I would.

Thanks for listening.
Hi @Thestarsarefalling

Thanks for your post.

There are obviously a lot of people here who probably advocate you leaving your marriage and based on the evidence, you would be well within your right to do so. However, i'm a big believer in trying to restore the relationship if there is a possibility and in all honesty, the comments that he made does suggest that he is potentially open to it.

It's extremely important for guys to get their ego stroked regulatly and it's one of those things that doesn't happen enough. Just to be clear, i'm not sitting in the male camp and just defending them. I also see so many guys lacking in their ability to provide genuine presence and making a woman feel understood but I think it's really important for both men and women to understand each others needs and make a commitment to serving them. If we can just learn to get out of our own ways and serve with love, things can change so quickly.

Obviously, your husband has acted like a bit of an idiot with some of his behaviour and he needs to really make a conscious effort to turn things around - of which I hope he does.
However, you can definitely play your part here as well which I know might seem frustrating. In fact, there might even be a part of you that completely resists it at times because of what he did but in order to turn this around, compassion does need to be exercised...

Find ways to make him feel significant, unique, special etc so that he creates some positive associations using your time together. If you can strike the right cords, then change can occur in him. Then if you can both meet each others needs at extraordinary levels, then you have a relationship that will last a long time. It's not easy and it takes effort. It's easy to go down the cynical path here but it's about striking the right balance between optimism/love yet being vigilant at the same time.

I hope that all makes sense.

Any questions, let me know.

Thanks
Sri
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post #34 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:49 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Hi @Thestarsarefalling However, i'm a big believer in trying to restore the relationship if there is a possibility and in all honesty, the comments that he made does suggest that he is potentially open to it.
Thanks
Sri
Restoring this relationship would be like restoring yourself back into hell.
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post #35 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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The idea that I need to make him feel better and help his ego in order to save my marriage can work. It did work. It saved my marriage last time. I read a book called Your Husbands Midlife Crisis by Sally and Jim Conway. It talked a lot about the needs of men and if you are loving to them they will come back. I am not saying it's all wrong, just that it's terrible advice to codependants. We already very naturally do anything to be loving. This builds up a lot of resentment when it's not returned that comes out in unrelated but punishing ways.

Trust me 5 years ago I made a perfect fool of myself initially to "get him back." I would tell him something he did everyday that I was grateful for, I tried to read up about his hobbies and talk to him about it, I tried harder to keep the house clean, I lost most of the baby weight that I gained, we still had a sex life back then, he insisted on sleeping on the floor so I did too. He would get mad if I tried to talk to him too much when he got home from work so I would just shut up and give him "cave time." I don't know how long this lasted maybe several months to a couple of years. All I wanted was to spend time together out of the house and to have no yelling or swearing. For the most part I was granted that. I learned about boundaries, codependency, and my narssistic mother, etc.

5 years later I am very independent but open to doing things with H. I have boundaries. Some are finainacial and some are personal. I am not sacrificing things that make me happy and I should not have too. Even though I am not as sweet to him as I used to be he is already more invested in saving are marriage than last time. This tells me is likes the independent woman more than the one that caters to him.
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post #36 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:43 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by Thestarsarefalling View Post
The idea that I need to make him feel better and help his ego in order to save my marriage can work. It did work. It saved my marriage last time. I read a book called Your Husbands Midlife Crisis by Sally and Jim Conway. It talked a lot about the needs of men and if you are loving to them they will come back. I am not saying it's all wrong, just that it's terrible advice to codependants. We already very naturally do anything to be loving. This builds up a lot of resentment when it's not returned that comes out in unrelated but punishing ways.

Trust me 5 years ago I made a perfect fool of myself initially to "get him back." I would tell him something he did everyday that I was grateful for, I tried to read up about his hobbies and talk to him about it, I tried harder to keep the house clean, I lost most of the baby weight that I gained, we still had a sex life back then, he insisted on sleeping on the floor so I did too. He would get mad if I tried to talk to him too much when he got home from work so I would just shut up and give him "cave time." I don't know how long this lasted maybe several months to a couple of years. All I wanted was to spend time together out of the house and to have no yelling or swearing. For the most part I was granted that. I learned about boundaries, codependency, and my narssistic mother, etc.

5 years later I am very independent but open to doing things with H. I have boundaries. Some are finainacial and some are personal. I am not sacrificing things that make me happy and I should not have too. Even though I am not as sweet to him as I used to be he is already more invested in saving are marriage than last time. This tells me is likes the independent woman more than the one that caters to him.
And he STILL CHEATED AGAIN. Therefore it didnt work last time, and it wouldnt work this time either.

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.


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post #37 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

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And he STILL CHEATED AGAIN. Therefore it didnt work last time, and it wouldnt work this time either.
Yep. Because going into overdrive to cater to someone who's just cheated on you is actually rewarding bad behavior. Of course the wayward spouse likes it! They screwed their spouse over and got extra goodies out of the deal! But it's a ghastly plan if you don't want your partner to cheat on you again. Because it sends the very clear message that the "price" of cheating is a more loving, devoted, slavish, spouse who will stop and nothing to please their cheating partner in every way.

Honestly, if that was going on in response to the first time she caught him, I'm pretty surprised it took the OP's husband this long (if it actually did) to cheat again.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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post #38 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:55 AM
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Re: Really? Again!

Your husband HAS AN EGO PROBLEM yes, its not you NOT fluffing his ego enough its his ego is dysfunctional. Placating his ego you still have a problem. YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO PUT A BANDAID ON A AMPUTATED STUMP.... omg....

Gently, you got your thoughts all sorts of wrong.
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post #39 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:12 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Yep. Because going into overdrive to cater to someone who's just cheated on you is actually rewarding bad behavior. Of course the wayward spouse likes it! They screwed their spouse over and got extra goodies out of the deal! But it's a ghastly plan if you don't want your partner to cheat on you again. Because it sends the very clear message that the "price" of cheating is a more loving, devoted, slavish, spouse who will stop and nothing to please their cheating partner in every way.

Honestly, if that was going on in response to the first time she caught him, I'm pretty surprised it took the OP's husband this long (if it actually did) to cheat again.


Yep, THIS, 100%. This is also known as the PICK ME dance.

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.


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post #40 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Yep. Because going into overdrive to cater to someone who's just cheated on you is actually rewarding bad behavior. Of course the wayward spouse likes it! They screwed their spouse over and got extra goodies out of the deal! But it's a ghastly plan if you don't want your partner to cheat on you again. Because it sends the very clear message that the "price" of cheating is a more loving, devoted, slavish, spouse who will stop and nothing to please their cheating partner in every way.

Honestly, if that was going on in response to the first time she caught him, I'm pretty surprised it took the OP's husband this long (if it actually did) to cheat again.


Yep, THIS, 100%. This is also known as the PICK ME dance.

I am not sure if I was clear. Last time I did do "the pick me dance" but I learned my lesson. That is not happening anymore. Even if I wanted to I don't know I can forgive and forget. How can he fix it? At best he can start meeting more of my needs but I feel it is doubtful. It's not the relationship that is hard to let go, it's our whole life together. Our lives are not miserable and hellish. My life does not revolve around my H. The loneliness gets hard sometimes but life is busy.

I am not rushing into anything.

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post #41 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:12 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

You staying at this point and doing the path you have laid out for us is just another form of THE PICK ME DANCE, waiting hoping wondering are all in the category of ...Im here, pick me, love me, be happy with me.

This is not going to bolster your ego, in fact, im sure your pretty darn insecure at this point. Who is going to fluff up your bruised ego? No one, cause only you can cure and solve your own emotional issues. Hanging around waiting and hoping is enabling him to NOT work on himself.

i hope you can see that.
And not rushing is overall good, but you are paralyzed.
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post #42 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:23 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

There are some people in life who simply aren't marriage material. Maybe your life isn't hellish, but your husband can't possibly be a good spouse if he's cheating on you. That's like the bare minimum of what a spouse shouldn't be doing in a marriage. That said, if you want to forgive him, and somehow build a life together, he would have to be completely transparent, honest, and willing to put you and your marriage, first. I don't see it happening, if he is back to his old ways.

I like the saying ''a person's true character is revealed when no one is looking.'' If your husband is deceptive and so on, that is who is really is. If he puts on a fake smile to pretend to be happy with you, that's not who he is. If you both can go through the motions of an everyday life together, that too isn't who he is. Who he really is, is who he is when you're not around to watch him. Who he REALLY is, is the guy who is deceptive and cheating. Unless he turns his back on that part of himself, your marriage will never work...not at least in the way you'd like it to.

Stay true to you, and the right answer will come.

Every now and then, you fall in love with the most unexpected person at the most unexpected time. - unknown

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post #43 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 05:50 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

Did you tell him to get his own apartment or have you changed your mind on this?

I'm so sorry your going through this. Change can be very scary. But it's a matter of time before he does something like this again. He needs a kick in his butt to make him change, and he might not ever change. I think it's best to kick him out of the house. And if he wanted to make the marriage work he knows how, and it's by actions not words over a period of time. Separating is the best situation for you because it's not a divorce, but it's preparing you for what might come (eases you into it), it also gives him a change to prove to you that he loves you and is willing to change which he owes you if he wants to make it work with you. So by separating, you are saying I don't need you and I refuse to be treated like this, while at the same time saying if you want this marriage to work the ball is in your court and you have a lot i making up to do for me to even consider taking you back. You need to be strong, stay strong and start to prepare yourself.
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post #44 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:41 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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If I kicked him out he would be able to find a nice dumb girl to swallow his lies pretty easy. Pretty sure dating and marriage isnt as easy for single mom in her 30s. Plus whomever I marry has to be a step dad. It's complicated. It's a risk to stay and a risk to leave. Paralyzed me to make a decision.
Then he would be her problem, not yours.


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post #45 of 176 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:43 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by Thestarsarefalling View Post
The idea that I need to make him feel better and help his ego in order to save my marriage can work. It did work. It saved my marriage last time. I read a book called Your Husbands Midlife Crisis by Sally and Jim Conway. It talked a lot about the needs of men and if you are loving to them they will come back. I am not saying it's all wrong, just that it's terrible advice to codependants. We already very naturally do anything to be loving. This builds up a lot of resentment when it's not returned that comes out in unrelated but punishing ways.

Trust me 5 years ago I made a perfect fool of myself initially to "get him back." I would tell him something he did everyday that I was grateful for, I tried to read up about his hobbies and talk to him about it, I tried harder to keep the house clean, I lost most of the baby weight that I gained, we still had a sex life back then, he insisted on sleeping on the floor so I did too. He would get mad if I tried to talk to him too much when he got home from work so I would just shut up and give him "cave time." I don't know how long this lasted maybe several months to a couple of years. All I wanted was to spend time together out of the house and to have no yelling or swearing. For the most part I was granted that. I learned about boundaries, codependency, and my narssistic mother, etc.

5 years later I am very independent but open to doing things with H. I have boundaries. Some are finainacial and some are personal. I am not sacrificing things that make me happy and I should not have too. Even though I am not as sweet to him as I used to be he is already more invested in saving are marriage than last time. This tells me is likes the independent woman more than the one that caters to him.
I'm glad you're going about setting the right boundaries for yourself and gaining that sense of independence. This will definitely help you as you've stated you're in a co-dependent relationship. Good on you for the action you've taken and I wish you all the best for the future :-)
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