Really? Again! - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Really? Again!

I have really appciated reading messages on this board because everything that I went through 5 years ago and now again feels validated. It makes me so angry to think how cynical I am now. It's hard to tell the story without getting carried away but I will try to keep it simple.

5 years ago my DH found a co worker that he got involved with. I may never truly know exactly what happen for sure ( b/c who ever can know). I believe this OW was very friendly and stroked his ego. I had been preoccupied having a baby and caring for his disabled mother. I left out of town to see family for a few days and came back to a changed guy. He would say I need to learn how to do things because he didnt think he would be around to do them for me. He would tell me to be more independent. He started getting home late, like 3 hrs late. When he left his email window open I discovered emails of texts that he saved to reminisce about. It was flirty and definitely bad. When confronted he admitted it and explained that she was so wonderful. He complained that I am too cold, not interested in his hobbies, and not spontaneous enough. She makes him feel so good.

A few months before I had wanted a new phone but we ended up buying him a new phone instead and I took his old one. This meant I had is phone directory and I called the OW. She said she had thought our marriage was already over and she was trying to be a good friend to my husband. I am ashamed to say I did reminder her I could tell their employer and hurt her career if she continued to talk to my husband at all. She agreed.

Looking back I think my DH was starting an Exit Affair. I don't think it got physical. I scared away the OW so he didn't end up leaving. I left him for 3 months but came home because it was my house and I wanted to at least try to R. He didn't really want me to come back.

He was half hearted and passive about making things work. The first year he was depressed and moody and refused to let me have acesss to his emails and texts. I could look at our phone records if needed. He wanted me to change and I did try for a while. Mostly he wanted me to clean better and be super interested in his hobbies. He said he wanted to be admired.

I read a lot of books and decided I was too co depenant and passively aggressive. I tried to rely less on my DH for happiness. I got a job I loved and gave me confidence. I did things that made me happy. I stopped caring about what my DH thought of me because he always has bad things to say. I reached a point where I didn't care to read his texts or emails because if he wanted another women she could have him. That is unti this week.

We have been in a pretty good place the last year but not perfect. There have been many times I thought about leaving but decided I loved my DH and I loved being around him. He is funny and interesting. Our child is also a big reason too.

I was completely shocked when he accidentally called me during a meeting with the same OW. It was hard to tell for sure what they were saying but it was clear he was trying to leave and she was upset and complaining he had to leave to pick up our son from school. When I told my husband he admitted it but it is very different this time. He said that he had met her to help her pick out a pet and they had met a month ago so he could help her pick out an item that he knows a lot about. Both times were around his Hobbies. The OW relationship had just broken up and she was crying over that. She has been coming around the area he works after years of staying away. He doesn't have her new number or email. They verbally decided to meet, he said it was him who offered.

My first thought was that its over but he does seem truthful when he says he wants to fix our marriage now. He seems willing and more open this time. He is willing to give me access to his phone and emails. I believe him but am also suspicious. There are so many ways now to hide messages that I can't possibly keep up with. I suspect she wasn't as fun to hang out with as he thought and he was testing the waters.

We have been married for 15 years and I don't see mine or our child's life better without him so I am giving him a few months to show me he can try to fix things but I kind of doubt him. He loves to find my problems but we can't usually make it over to his problems at all. Everyone will probably tell me to go but if it was that easy I would.

Thanks for listening.


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post #2 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 12:49 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

Same woman? 5 Years since first situation and now?

Honestly your husband DID NOT LEARN THE LAST TIME. he is back in the affair.

Really? you want to keep trying? While he was willingly in contact, no email or phone just verbal because HE REALLY REALLY REALLY does not want you to know.

Do you know what might work? Dropping him like a hot potato, she is pursuing him and he LIKES IT. He also LIKES THAT YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN UP ON HIM! this man is an ego kibble junkie. As long as she makes him feel good and he does not dig into why he is messed up and wanting those feelings there is no point to keep working at this. She will just keep chipping away at the armor you have on your marriage. The armor your husband soaks in the salty ocean to rust away as fast as possible.

He does not care about your feelings only so far as he can keep you ignorant. As far as her, he has not drawn the line in the sand. BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT TO!

Dropping him will cut of half the ego kibble supply, He will have to chose her because his wife walked out. He will finally see this other woman for a predator and he was a stupid weak prey. Prey that stares right at the big wolf instead of being smart and running for safety. He will see less of his kids, and will also see your strength.

Only when he really SEES WHAT HE THREW AWAY, only then is he even close to worthy of another try.

I have kids, I am not saying this without understanding the difficult position you find yourself still in.
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post #3 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by threelittlestars View Post
Same woman? 5 Years since first situation and now?

Honestly your husband DID NOT LEARN THE LAST TIME. he is back in the affair.

Really? you want to keep trying? While he was willingly in contact, no email or phone just verbal because HE REALLY REALLY REALLY does not want you to know.

Do you know what might work? Dropping him like a hot potato, she is pursuing him and he LIKES IT. He also LIKES THAT YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN UP ON HIM! this man is an ego kibble junkie. As long as she makes him feel good and he does not dig into why he is messed up and wanting those feelings there is no point to keep working at this. She will just keep chipping away at the armor you have on your marriage. The armor your husband soaks in the salty ocean to rust away as fast as possible.

He does not care about your feelings only so far as he can keep you ignorant. As far as her, he has not drawn the line in the sand. BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT TO!

Dropping him will cut of half the ego kibble supply, He will have to chose her because his wife walked out. He will finally see this other woman for a predator and he was a stupid weak prey. Prey that stares right at the big wolf instead of being smart and running for safety. He will see less of his kids, and will also see your strength.

Only when he really SEES WHAT HE THREW AWAY, only then is he even close to worthy of another try.

I have kids, I am not saying this without understanding the difficult position you find yourself still in.

I agree. Putting separation and divorce into motion is extremely difficult and I keep sticking my head in the sand. Kicking him out is still an option. I am really unhappy with him on multiple levels unrelated to this and this is just the cherry on top of the s**t pile.

Part of the issue is that I doubt any relationship after this will great. Maybe all relationships are tolerable at best after so many years. This is the only relationship I have ever had and I have never broken up with anyone. I met him at 18 and married a year later. Our parents are gone now, we are each other's family. It's hard to turn my back even when it makes sense. I like my life and I feel like divorcing him jeopardized my life, friends, schedule, house and support system for our child. I am worried that our child is getting old enough to notice the disfunction.

What concerns me is how easy it is to fall into our routines just like nothing happened. I have no idea what to do from here. It's only been a week but more info keeps slipping out when I push him and he becomes more willing to make an effort. I don't know. Yesterday he said he might look for another job away from OW. Not sure if that is really good enough now. I think he isn't as interested in her because she was crying and not as peppy as he remembered. I don't want to worry about looking over his shoulder. It's exhausting.
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post #4 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 02:53 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

How solid is your marriage? How often do you kiss, touch, and have sex?
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post #5 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Really? Again!

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How solid is your marriage? How often do you kiss, touch, and have sex?
Very bad. We had sex once or twice in the last year and maybe a handful of times the year before that. When ever I bring it up he deflects the problem to me saying I was never interest in sex that much when we were younger so what does it matter now or makes me feel bad for even being it up. This would be the main reason I have considered leaving him within the last few years. I had been thinking he probably had erectile disfunction and was too embarrassed to discuss it. He wants to just have a sexless marriage now. He is 38 btw.

I know. It's embarrassing how awful everything is.
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post #6 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

The guy never did learn how to tie his shoe lace vows after that first EA, Emotional Affair.

He did not learn to retie his marital shoe lace because he tripped over them again....same hole, different day........ different year, same year-ning.

He must pay the price. He must price-in his adultery.
Let your attorney send the TAB to this Wooden Nickel of a man. Nick his wallet.




EA....Easing Away from their significant other.
EA....Eating Away.. eschewing what is offered at home.
EA....Elastic Ambit
EA....Eventual Apoplexy to a healthy marriage.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #7 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:31 PM
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Tell him to man up or you'll divorce him. Stop playing games. Go to MC meetings, talk about the issues. Him putting any issues on you is bull. He has faults. We all do. Find out why his penis isn't working, especially if you have had desire. ED can be stress related or medical. A blood test can be done . Or he is getting sex elsewhere.

It takes two to make it work.
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post #8 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:34 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

Nothing wrong with a divorce. I was in a 100% sexless marriage for the last 4 years of my 8 year marriage. It's a sham. It eats at you slowly and you try to convince yourself you can live like this until your kids turn 18. I read No More Mr Nice Guy, got mad, and left. I was having sex with girls the next day from my new extended stay hotel temporary home. I'm having the best sex of my life now and bought a house with the girl of my dreams 16 months post separation. Get busy living life to the fullest. Only one life. Don't waste it.
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post #9 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Really? Again!

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Nothing wrong with a divorce. I was in a 100% sexless marriage for the last 4 years of my 8 year marriage. It's a sham. It eats at you slowly and you try to convince yourself you can live like this until your kids turn 18. I read No More Mr Nice Guy, got mad, and left. I was having sex with girls the next day from my new extended stay hotel temporary home. I'm having the best sex of my life now and bought a house with the girl of my dreams 16 months post separation. Get busy living life to the fullest. Only one life. Don't waste it.
If I kicked him out he would be able to find a nice dumb girl to swallow his lies pretty easy. Pretty sure dating and marriage isnt as easy for single mom in her 30s. Plus whomever I marry has to be a step dad. It's complicated. It's a risk to stay and a risk to leave. Paralyzed me to make a decision.
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post #10 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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If I kicked him out he would be able to find a nice dumb girl to swallow his lies pretty easy. Pretty sure dating and marriage isnt as easy for single mom in her 30s. Plus whomever I marry has to be a step dad. It's complicated. It's a risk to stay and a risk to leave. Paralyzed me to make a decision.
It seems like you are saying that you'd rather live in your current miserable condition because you are afraid you would only be trading it for another miserable condition. Not all of life is miserable. Not all relationships are miserable. Life is not hopeless. You have power over your own life. Right now you have the power to decide not to live with a man who doesn't care about you.



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post #11 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

One of the first things I learned in Psychology class was that a person's past behavior is a very good indicator of his future behavior. You must have heard that once a cheater, always a cheater. That is especially true when his spouse shows that she is afraid to divorce him. What usually happens is that you end up looking the other way because the alternative is not attractive to you. You have already emboldened him to cheat by allowing it over and over again with no more than an argument for his months of pleasure. A fair trade in his book.

I cheated 4 times before my wife decided to open our marriage. I was not going to change. I have always had more than one women in my life and marriage did not change that. We got involved in some group sex and then threesomes. We ended up sharing a girlfriend for 30 years. My wife and I agree that had we insisted on monogamy, we would have divorced a very long time ago. There is a whole science of human evolution and how we are one of the few species who have sex for non reproductive reasons. We are attracted to others and there is no stopping that. How we act on that attraction varies from person to person.

I kept on cheating because I knew that my wife loved the lifestyle I was providing her and as she said, what the eyes do not see, the heart cannot feel. There are both husbands and wives who look the other way as long as their spouse is discrete. You indicated that you do not desire a divorce so you have taken away your main weapons. You are left with very little else to deter your husband. I would gladly trade an argument for some good sex for a few months. If I was facing divorce I would think twice about it, but it seems that even that does not deter some.

Here is an article that describes how my wife and I put our marriage ahead of monogamy. Worth a read:Rethinking monogamy today - CNN.com

We know lots of married couples who have saved their marriage this way. Our girlfriend is married and in an open marriage. They are married longer than 25 years. We are married for 44 years. We don't go out on weekends looking for new sex partners. In fact, my wife and I had less then 10 sex partners combined, and half of those were as a couple. When you know that your spouse can also see others it changes the ballgame and makes you step up your game. Good luck.

Many prefer to drown in a pool of their own morality rather than seek the safety of a different morality.

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post #12 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:25 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by Thestarsarefalling View Post
Very bad. We had sex once or twice in the last year and maybe a handful of times the year before that. When ever I bring it up he deflects the problem to me saying I was never interest in sex that much when we were younger so what does it matter now or makes me feel bad for even being it up. This would be the main reason I have considered leaving him within the last few years. I had been thinking he probably had erectile disfunction and was too embarrassed to discuss it. He wants to just have a sexless marriage now. He is 38 btw.

I know. It's embarrassing how awful everything is.
I doubt the original affair ever really ended and his latest round of excuses, finding a pet and hobbies is just nonensense. He doesn't want as sex less marriage it's just what the both of you are stuck in right now because neither of you are willing to pull the plug.

Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday
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post #13 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:29 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Part of the issue is that I doubt any relationship after this will great. Maybe all relationships are tolerable at best after so many years. This is the only relationship I have ever had and I have never broken up with anyone. I met him at 18 and married a year later. Our parents are gone now, we are each other's family. It's hard to turn my back even when it makes sense. I like my life and I feel like divorcing him jeopardized my life, friends, schedule, house and support system for our child. I am worried that our child is getting old enough to notice the disfunction.
I think that you must have observed more than your share of bad relationships. Many decent people still respect and are kind and considerate to their spouses after many years together.

You may lose your support system for awhile and you have to decide what can give you the most happiness. If you stay in your current situation, you already know that you'll never find lasting happiness. By the way, if you're still in your mid thirties, you are still young. If making a decision is too difficult right now, it is not too early to start improving yourself. Take care of yourself physically, increase your knowledge, gain more self-confidence and realize your self-worth.
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post #14 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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I have really appciated reading messages on this board because everything that I went through 5 years ago and now again feels validated. It makes me so angry to think how cynical I am now. It's hard to tell the story without getting carried away but I will try to keep it simple.

5 years age my DH found a co worker that he got involved with. I may never truly know exactly what happen for sure ( b/c who ever can know). I believe this OW was very friendly and stroked his ego. I had been preoccupied having a baby and caring for his disabled mother. I left out of town to see family for a few days and came back to a changed guy. He would say I need to learn how to do things because he didnt think he would be around to do them for me. He would tell me to be more independent. He started getting home late, like 3 hrs late. When he left his email window open I discovered emails of texts that he saved to reminisce about. It was flirty and definitely bad. When confronted he admitted it and explained that she was so wonderful. He complained that I am too cold, not interested in his hobbies, and not spontaneous enough. She makes him feel so good.

A few months before I had wanted a new phone but we ended up buying him a new phone instead and I took his old one. This meant I had is phone directory and I called the OW. She said she had thought our marriage was already over and she was trying to be a good friend to my husband. I am ashamed to say I did reminder her I could tell their employer and hurt her career if she continued to talk to my husband at all. She agreed.

Looking back I think my DH was starting an Exit Affair. I don't think it got physical. I scared away the OW so he didn't end up leaving. I left him for 3 months but came home because it was my house and I wanted to at least try to R. He didn't really want me to come back.

He was half hearted and passive about making things work. The first year he was depressed and moody and refused to let me have acesss to his emails and texts. I could look at our phone records if needed. He wanted me to change and I did try for a while. Mostly he wanted me to clean better and be super interested in his hobbies. He said he wanted to be admired.

I read a lot of books and decided I was too co depenant and passively aggressive. I tried to rely less on my DH for happiness. I got a job I loved and gave me confidence. I did things that made me happy. I stopped caring about what my DH thought of me because he always has bad things to say. I reached a point where I didn't care to read his texts or emails because if he wanted another women she could have him. That is unti this week.

We have been in a pretty good place the last year but not perfect. There have been many times I thought about leaving but decided I loved my DH and I loved being around him. He is funny and interesting. Our child is also a big reason too.

I was completely shocked when he accidentally called me during a meeting with the same OW. It was hard to tell for sure what they were saying but it was clear he was trying to leave and she was upset and complaining he had to leave to pick up our son from school. When I told my husband he admitted it but it is very different this time. He said that he had met her to help her pick out a pet and they had met a month ago so he could help her pick out an item that he knows a lot about. Both times were around his Hobbies. The OW relationship had just broken up and she was crying over that. She has been coming around the area he works after years of staying away. He doesn't have her new number or email. They verbally decided to meet, he said it was him who offered.

My first thought was that its over but he does seem truthful when he says he wants to fix our marriage now. He seems willing and more open this time. He is willing to give me access to his phone and emails. I believe him but am also suspicious. There are so many ways now to hide messages that I can't possibly keep up with. I suspect she wasn't as fun to hang out with as he thought and he was testing the waters.

We have been married for 15 years and I don't see mine or our child's life better without him so I am giving him a few months to show me he can try to fix things but I kind of doubt him. He loves to find my problems but we can't usually make it over to his problems at all. Everyone will probably tell me to go but if it was that easy I would.

Thanks for listening.
OP,

Try to remember the bolded part above. If you stay, you will become even more resentful. Of rugsweeping two D-days (maybe the same affair this whole time), of his criticism of you, of your sexless marriage, of his ED whatever the cause may be. You probably don't realize this right now in your emotional state, but your discovery last week was a gift. You have proof that AT A MINIMUM he has met up with his previous (or continuous) affair partner. You don't have to sleuth around to find that evidence. You have it. You have the moral high ground. You have nothing to feel badly about. Hold your head high and refuse to let your dignity take another massive blow.

I understand the fear of not wanting to uproot your life and your son's. I don't take it lightly. But if you let this slip by like the last time, and you just fall back into your old patterns, the resentment will eat away at you. Any "relief" that he supposedly has no contact with the OW will dissipate. You'll be miserable again, only worse.
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post #15 of 175 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:56 PM
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Re: Really? Again!

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Originally Posted by Thestarsarefalling View Post
If I kicked him out he would be able to find a nice dumb girl to swallow his lies pretty easy. Pretty sure dating and marriage isnt as easy for single mom in her 30s. Plus whomever I marry has to be a step dad. It's complicated. It's a risk to stay and a risk to leave. Paralyzed me to make a decision.
Given the long-term state of your relationship, and the fact that your husband seems to be actively wayward on an ongoing basis, is there really a chance that you'll be happy in your marriage in the future? Do you expect a happy life if you stay, or are you just anticipating more of the same low-level misery? Are you okay with never having a chance to have a happier life?

If you leave, you do have that chance. It isn't a guarantee, of course, but there is a chance for it. Maybe it won't be what you always imagined. But it might be even better. You can have a happy life alone, if you choose to. You can have a chance for a happy life in another relationship, if you choose to do that. But in either case, you won't be spending every day with someone who seems to have a vested interest in helping you to feel bad about yourself and life in general. That alone can be very valuable.

And, by the way, if you do end your marriage and decide that you want a relationship with someone else in the future, it really is possible to find a good, decent, attractive, loving, faithful man. Even for a divorced mom in her thirties. I did it. Many of my friends and acquaintances have done it. The trick is to get yourself healed and emotionally healthy so you're in the position to choose whether to continue being happily single or to be a great partner to a likewise emotionally healthy man.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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