Working, I'm more worried about you now than when you first came to TAM. It's not that your husband left for a while , I'm more worried about your pride. While I agree that begging him to stay wouldn't have been productive, YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN WILLING TO!!!! The REASON why you wouldn't beg is far more important to your reconciliation THAN THE ACTUAL ACT. Don't you see this , even now? You need to leave your f**king pride at the door, or you will fail.
I don't think anyone was as harsh in their response to your initial posts as I was. You have come a very long way since then. In reading your latest, I am struck by your description of seeing him broken, early in your relationship. And I am struck by your saying that even in the face of losing him tonight, you could not lay aside your strength and your pride.
I think maybe he needs to see you break. He needs to see you lay aside that strength and pride, to cast them off and abandon them even in the face of how central they have been to your identity.
I think part of you at least wants to break too. And I think you don't know how.
I wish I had advice on how to go about it, but I don't, except to say that to keep your husband you may have to part with a part of yourself that you have until now thought you could not live without.
I don't think anyone was as harsh in their response to your initial posts as I was. You have come a very long way since then. In reading your latest, I am struck by your description of seeing him broken, early in your relationship. And I am struck by your saying that even in the face of losing him tonight, you could not lay aside your strength and your pride.
I think maybe he needs to see you break. He needs to see you lay aside that strength and pride, to cast them off and abandon them even in the face of how central they have been to your identity.
I think part of you at least wants to break too. And I think you don't know how.
I wish I had advice on how to go about it, but I don't, except to say that to keep your husband you may have to part with a part of yourself that you have until now thought you could not live without.
I wish you the best.
Haz
Well put, Haz. Working, you chose to cheat, then chose the OM over your husband, and now you are choosing your pride over him again. How can you possibly begin again, if he does all the work and you get to keep making selfish choices? Until you can approach him begging, metaphorically, as a suplicant, how can trust be re-established? The act of submission and the willingness to make whatever restitution it takes is fundamental to recovery/ If you cannot or will not do this, you need to divorce.
Maybe it wasn't pride that kept her from showing him that she didn't want him to go. Maybe she felt that she wasn't worthy of begging him to stay. Just saying.
Working, there is a HUGE difference between self-worth and self-esteem. Self-worth is based upon the content of your character, your accomplishments, and the regard of others. Self-esteem is your own selfish opinion. Self-worth fosters a sense of satisfaction and humility. Self-esteem fosters pride and arrogance. Which would you prefer?
@Badblood, I think this is a bit more complicated.
When a BS threatens to leave the marriage there are 2 things a WS can do
Beg him to stay but she can beg him for her own selfish reasons to stay in the marriage even if the BS is miserable.
Let him leave because she knows that the BS will not get over it and that the only way the BS can find his own happiness is by leaving her.
Warlock, I understand all of this, but I'm going by her own words. She said that her pride is what kept her from begging him to stay. Does this sound like a remorseful woman who would do ANYTHING to repair the damage she has done? It doesn't to me. It sounds more like a woman whose sense of entitlement is more important to her than her marriage. I admit that Working had me fooled. I truly believed that she was completely committed to Reconciliation, and had put her husband's needs above her own. Clearly I was mistaken. I feel very sorry for her husband, and for her too. For her husband , because he will always be second-best in her heart. For her, because she will never experience true love , because she is incapable of giving it. It's embarassing to admit I was wrong.
Warlock, I understand all of this, but I'm going by her own words. She said that her pride is what kept her from begging him to stay. Does this sound like a remorseful woman who would do ANYTHING to repair the damage she has done? It doesn't to me. It sounds more like a woman whose sense of entitlement is more important to her than her marriage. I admit that Working had me fooled. I truly believed that she was completely committed to Reconciliation, and had put her husband's needs above her own. Clearly I was mistaken. I feel very sorry for her husband, and for her too. For her husband , because he will always be second-best in her heart. For her, because she will never experience true love , because she is incapable of giving it. It's embarassing to admit I was wrong.
Three thoughts:
1. While words are important, I think focusing on specific words in a thread can be dangerous. All of us, at one time or another, have used one word to convey an idea when another word would have been better. For example, while most lay people would use the temrs "self esteem" and "self worth" interchangably, there are in fact different ideas being conveyed. Getting bogged down on specific words can cause discussions to move away from the larger point or get caught up in semantics. I think this is particularly the case with emotions, where it can be difficult to accurately describe what a person is feeling.
2. Personal growth and learning about ones self are on-going processes. It is completely possible for a person, such as Working, to be sincerely attempting to reconcile and not realize how she is impeding that processes. While it is important to point that out to help the poster, I am not sure that assigning intent or malice to the poster, particularly where they are coming back time and time again in what appears to be an honest attempt to work on the issue, is productive.
3. I think that Working is honestly attempting to do the right thing. That she is missing the mark, either becuase she does not know how to do it or does not realize she is doing it wrong, does not mean she does not want to help.
1. While words are important, I think focusing on specific words in a thread can be dangerous. All of us, at one time or another, have used one word to convey an idea when another word would have been better. For example, while most lay people would use the temrs "self esteem" and "self worth" interchangably, there are in fact different ideas being conveyed. Getting bogged down on specific words can cause discussions to move away from the larger point or get caught up in semantics. I think this is particularly the case with emotions, where it can be difficult to accurately describe what a person is feeling.
2. Personal growth and learning about ones self are on-going processes. It is completely possible for a person, such as Working, to be sincerely attempting to reconcile and not realize how she is impeding that processes. While it is important to point that out to help the poster, I am not sure that assigning intent or malice to the poster, particularly where they are coming back time and time again in what appears to be an honest attempt to work on the issue, is productive.
3. I think that Working is honestly attempting to do the right thing. That she is missing the mark, either becuase she does not know how to do it or does not realize she is doing it wrong, does not mean she does not want to help.
YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badblood
Mori, she said "pride", if she meant something else, she should have said so.
True but it may have been a poor choice of words on her part.
I think she that she might be trying to repress feelings for fear of doing more damage and she may be afraid of losing control.
In any case, I wonder if working is still going to counseling to address and resolve her personal issues.
Working, I'm more worried about you now than when you first came to TAM. It's not that your husband left for a while , I'm more worried about your pride. While I agree that begging him to stay wouldn't have been productive, YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN WILLING TO!!!! The REASON why you wouldn't beg is far more important to your reconciliation THAN THE ACTUAL ACT. Don't you see this , even now? You need to leave your f**king pride at the door, or you will fail.
I know what your saying, I almost get there, I feel I want to do that to really show him I need and want him. I reach out and cry and tell him that, maybe I'm focused on the word "begging", and I need to look at it another way, it's what I have to do for the real healing to begin. I know he's feeling it, and it triggers him. I need help with this I guess, I have to admit that there is something very wrong with me, I have this fear that if I completely submit what will happen to me, It has nothing to do with not wanting him, or not loving him, I know that, and I am clear about that. It is within myself, hence the need for help through therapy again.
Then I read on the forum that the wives really don't want their husbands, and I think that must be me too. i guess I don't really want him, why would I have done that to him otherwise. But it's just not true, I do love him, and want him here with me. When we're happy, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's horrible.
I don't think anyone was as harsh in their response to your initial posts as I was. You have come a very long way since then. In reading your latest, I am struck by your description of seeing him broken, early in your relationship. And I am struck by your saying that even in the face of losing him tonight, you could not lay aside your strength and your pride.
I think maybe he needs to see you break. He needs to see you lay aside that strength and pride, to cast them off and abandon them even in the face of how central they have been to your identity.
I think part of you at least wants to break too. And I think you don't know how.
I wish I had advice on how to go about it, but I don't, except to say that to keep your husband you may have to part with a part of yourself that you have until now thought you could not live without.
I wish you the best.
Haz
exactly, I don't know how, and my biggest fear is what happens when I do?
Maybe it wasn't pride that kept her from showing him that she didn't want him to go. Maybe she felt that she wasn't worthy of begging him to stay. Just saying.
I don't know really, I thought on some level he would lose respect for me and see me as pathetic, but in reality I think he needs to see this part of me.
Warlock, I understand all of this, but I'm going by her own words. She said that her pride is what kept her from begging him to stay. Does this sound like a remorseful woman who would do ANYTHING to repair the damage she has done? It doesn't to me. It sounds more like a woman whose sense of entitlement is more important to her than her marriage. I admit that Working had me fooled. I truly believed that she was completely committed to Reconciliation, and had put her husband's needs above her own. Clearly I was mistaken. I feel very sorry for her husband, and for her too. For her husband , because he will always be second-best in her heart. For her, because she will never experience true love , because she is incapable of giving it. It's embarassing to admit I was wrong.
Bad, you're jumping the gun, and loosing faith in me.
I am giving everything I can in this relationship, I'm really trying, and I'm not fooling others or myself, believe me.
Pride has me confused, the word "begging" drives me nuts. I used to beg my mother for the things I wanted when I was younger, and she always said "NO", I felt like I didn't deserve them. Everyone around me had things I wanted, but she chose to buy me second hand clothes. She was handicapped so I helped her as much as I could, and I just felt like no matter what I did for her I was not appreciated. She had the money to do it, but she chose not to. She wanted me to learn the value of money, and be a hard worker, and which I became, but it was extreme, and it f*cked me up a bit. I became bitter about it, and thought I got over it, but it seems I'm having some horrible memories come up again with this affair.
And my mom has more than made up for what happened. She's now a very generous and loving woman with me and my kids, and adores my husband to the point that she refers to him as the son she never had. I know she was very hurt by her divorce, and what my dad did to me, and she became depressed many times. But I never thought about it much anymore...until the last year.
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Re: When Triggers Spiral Out of Control.... 
