Remains

Haha this made me almost laugh out loud. How similar we are Looking! My man came back with a tattoo in Oct. 5 months after I found out...and still very rocky. My name tattooed on his arm! He is not the type.

LookingForTheSun

Well - pointed out tonight that car was sitting in front of house and took off when I went to get mail...that blew up into a mess. We talked about stuff that was very uncomfortable - found out stuff I already knew but also found out that songs that he plays all of the time recently are about me and not her...that was a big Yeah for me, but he forgot to mention that, so everytime I heard them I was dying inside. I took the plunge and asked him what his trigger points were, since I know that there are things that will make him think of her. I got a song, which I pretty much knew, and where they went when she was in town - he said they went to walmart - do I want to stop going to walmart, and I said no, because I was there first with him. He was very defensive, angry, and knocked some stuff around and in the end ended up getting drunk. I know he is haviing a hard time with this - asked what I could do to make him understand what I was feeling. I told him to think of his dad dying, him grieving, and me blowiing him off and telling him that it was no big deal...other than that, I could not even begin to think of what might hurt him the way I am hurting other than do this to him, but I would not want him to feel what I am, so that would not happen. He said that the only way I could understand what he is feeling is to go in the closet, take the gun, load a magazine in it, hold it to my head, and then put it back and just live with it. Any other wayward spouses ever feel this or any loyal spouses ever deal with the WS saying such things? At another point, he was angry - angry all the way through it, hence grabbing another beer - he said, "you know what, I will tell you one thing she told me that is true. She said if you took me back it would never be the same." I felt every emotion in the book right then and there. I almost exploded. I told him that he was defendiing her and her opinions once again, and that if wanted to buy into everything that she sold him on that he might as well go right back to her now. Then I said that it won't ever be the same and that it should not be the same and that it should be better. I came clean to him that when she tried to get in touch with me last it was through email. I guess I was afraid to post that because I was afraid he might read this thread at some point. I knew a lot - he wanted proof (she told him him that she had nevr tried to contact me and that I was a liar - I saw no need to defend myself at any point to him), and that was the night that he wrote his last goodbye email. So, instead of just trying to get in touch with me, she did - with details (I did not respond back), adn to prove it to him, I receited about 10 min worth of email conversation between the 2. I was POd that he thought I was lying - felt like he was siding with her adn beliving her BS all over again. I felt like he put a knife in my back - but I gave him what he wanted. I told him that we did not have to be like this - that it all started over my concern for a car parked out front of our house. After I told him about the emails, I said, "Now do you see why I am on high alert? I don't care about details. I already know enough. I care about now and our future. I know how evil and manipulative she is, and I tried to point that out in the beginning, but you could not see it because you were addicted and you certainly would not take my word for it because I was the one you were trying to run from." He kept telling me to just stop talkiing and leave him alone, and I told him no and that I was tired of him dictating when and what we could talk about, so he flew off again and said "you want to know details? I will tell you details. I will tell you anything you want to know because I was there!" I know he was angry and hurt, but so was I. I din't want to hurt him anymore, but I also did not want to have to do this again another time and ruin another night. I told him the only things I cared to know are where his head is at...that I wonder everyday how he is coping. I also wonder and pray that the last day of hearing from the OW is done. He said that he was nowhere, and that he has no place. This made me angry and sad. I told him he always had a place with me and our girls before. I asked him what he wanted and he said that he just wanted to give me and our girls what we deserve and have a happy life. During this whole arguement he also said a few times that it felt like we were back at day one. I told him that it was only because he kept sweeping it under the rug and we never really dealt with it and that I was on eggshells and did not feel like I could truly talk about it. That is why we were haivng this argument and then he said no, we were having the argument because I was keeping my feelings inside and not talking about it...WTF. OK - so I knew he had a pretty good buzz...the he was asking if I was acting differently because of thinsg she told me. I told her that I never talked to her, and I didn't. all I had was the emails. I asked him like what - ok - here goes...breat implants. Yep, I made an appt to have breast implants. Why? I have been wanting to ever since I had my last daughter. I just could not see spending that kind of money on anything other than our house or our girls. Well, that all changed. I decided that I was going to focus on me and do something that I wanted to do. I know emotionally I am going through a lot right now, but I told him (and I told him before all of this) that the next big purchase we make was going to be on me for that. Well, no time like the present. And I also told him that I decided that whether I am with him or somone else in the future, I was not going to have any hangups about myslef. He aske dif I decided to do it because now I have the money - I could have stabbed him in the back - I mean, seriously? I could not contain myself and told him that she was the gold digger not me. She was the one who did not work and mooched off of men to get what she wanted. I told him that he was an ass and that I was buying them for myself. What a sh**head. I make my own money, I don't need his. I was POd again. Then I asked him what else he menat when he asked if I was doing things based on what she said. I had not a clue...like what. Like sex things he said - what?!?! OK, so no, I do not know details of that, nor do I care to, but I had no clue what he was talking about...NOTHING that we have done is anything that we haven't done or said before, other than the frequency. He would not say anything else...I still have not a clue and it bugs the heck out of me...I guess he just forgot what we used to do and only remembers them...I don't know. I had to remind him of how we used to be - very often - very intense...and when we did get intimate (even long dry spells) it was intense. Guess he just forgot. So, now I am left with wanting to know what amd i doing so different or that he thinks I am doing different. I am sure there must b some things I am not aware of. I told him that I probably am differnt - my world was turned upside down, I was thrown under a bus, by ego and pride was destroyed....so yep, guess I might seem a bit different. BUT, I pointed out that we should both be different people now - better. So what did we get out of this? I found out that not every new song is about her, but instead me. I found out what some of his triggers are. He found out about the emails and why I feel like I do - although he still can't understand it because he "knows for a fact" that she will never come out here. Sorry - maybe he can feel certain, but I can't, and I told him that only time and peace will convince me. So then he said he wanted more beer. I told him he could not drive, he said he was going to walk. I told him I would take him if hat is what he really needed. So, I got my 3 year old (oldest is at a sleepover), put her in the car and drove to the gas station. Daughter wants a hotdog, so I tell dad to get her a hotdog...she is happy, I put my hand on his leg in the car (after our daughter breaks the ice with her laugh and smile and "thank-you Daddy", he hold my hand, we drive home, put daughter to bed, he takes 2 beers upstairs and falls aslep before he even gets to drink them...told him to go to bed since I have to work tomorrow and I need him to watch the girls, so he is asleep and I am getting the whole night off my chest. Sorry such the long post. So how will things be tomorrow? I feel like we made some progress even though he does not. I told him about some of you fine folks and your stories on here and he said if it helped me, fine, but that he didn't care what anyone in his position said because they were just as low as he was and did what he did and there was no excuse. I told him that I sought out advice so I could understand him better since he did not talk. Any WS act anything like this? Anyone else think we made any progress? I know I finally stood up - something I have been wanting to do...not to hurt, but for my own sanity.

LookingForTheSun

OK - just read my own post. First, sorry about the spelling. I was typing fast - as fast as my mind was racing. Also, the thing about the gun - he meant that of himself - not me. That that is how he feels. I would never consider that. I like me and I have way too much to live for. I don't belive he is suicidal, but it bothers me that he would even use that as a a comparison.

LookingForTheSun

Here I am 5 hours later, after about 3 hours of sleep. I woke up with my heart racing and all of the things that WS said last night that felt like stabs running through my head about 100 miles and hour. Do I want to start the day off discussing everything again - no, but things he said really hurt me. I can't even really collect my thoughts right now - I feel hurt, disgusted and numb. My biggest questions are still how he is doing on a day to day basis, wanting to know if the OW ever rears her evil horns again, and can he identify and promise that this will never happen again. My new questions are why did he say the things he said last night, intoxicated or not, did he ever really think things could go back to the way they were and did he really want them to. I thought (and the best way to handle things) that by identifying gaps in your marriage and then working on them you would understand each others needs and make things different so that your marriage worked. Also, I really want to tell him this - on several occasions, he said that he wanted to be the man that I married - hell no! I don't want the man I married because he has been a liar and a cheat. I want a new man who can identify his faults and weaknesses and keep the lines of communication open and let me know when he feels we need to switch it up and will allow me to do the same. I want a man that is true to his word, from this day forward, foresaking all others as long as we both shall live. That is the man that I want and that is the only man I can be with, and that is what I want in him. I want a man who will tell me his deepest, darkest secrets, one who will confide in me, one who will support me and catch me when I fall, no matter from what, no matter how much it will hurt him. I want a man who can look me in the eyes stare into my soul and connect with me. I want a man who appreciates who I am, what I have done, my strengths, my drive, my wit and my mind. I want a man that can accept my faults and help me to be a better person. I want my husband to be all of those things. Throughout different times in our marriage he has been all of those men. I need him to be all that right now and forever. I know we have a long road ahead of us. I am willing to walk it if I have to, but what the hell next? I know he does not know me like he should. He does not know my strength or my character. He does not know all of my wants, desires, and obviously intimately...maybe that is a good thing. That is something he can build on. Newness - honey it is all there - you were just unwilling to work, look or fight for it. Dear God - please give me the strength to not blow up today.

sigma1299

I hate to say it but I'm at something of a loss. You know my first reaction would be to say that he's not genuinely remorseful - but for some reason I don't think that's the case. I think he definitely needs to get IC - pronto. The whole gun thing is worrisome, it could be construed as emotionally manipulating you to get you to drop it.

I do have two questions, if you already answered my apologies but I don't have time to reread everything. 1. Have you forgiven him? 2. If you have - have you told him? If the answer to 1. is yes and 2. is no - it might make a difference if you sit him down and tell him and explain to him why. Being forgiven by the person you betrayed does two things IMO. One it gives you permission to let go of guilt and start to forgive yourself (note guilt and remorse are not the same thing), and two it creates a obligation in the one forgiven to pull themselves together. After all, if the one betrayed can forgive you, do you really have any right to indulge yourself in wallowing and self pity?

Bottom line he's more focused on him than you and that's not good - I'm not sure what to tell you to do about it though. Assuming mine was one of the stories you told him about tell him this. He's right that he and I committed the same transgression - suffered the same failing. But he's wrong that I'm just as low as he is. I have busted my ass to do everything I could to rebuild my wife and my marriage, so far he has not done the same - at least IMO. Tell him it's not the falling down that defines us, but the standing back up and righting our wrongs that does.

Don't back up from a fight if you need something. Don't let him intimidate you into rug sweeping. Good Luck.

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Remains

Can someone please tell me what IMO is please?
Thanks.

sigma1299

In My Opinion

In My Humble Opinion
Posted via Mobile Device

Remains

Sigma, I have read your post and I do believe u are beating yourself up bad for something that was very shortlived and not physical. You were honest with your wife the moment it got out of hand and have done all the right things, from what u say, to put it all right. you stopped before it really started. We all love to be flattered, you took the flattering too far, and stopped short as soon as you went over the boundary of innocent chat and flirty banter. Of course you did wrong, but there was no meeting, no physical contact etc. I don't know the extent of your flirtations, it sounds like it went way past the boundary so far as she was concerned and as far as the fact you are having difficulty removing her from your thoughts. I think when you feel strongly for someone other than your spouse it is because there is passion missing from your marriage - isn't that just normal though for a long relationship - and because you were flattered. It is a great feeling to be adored no matter who is doing the adoring. It just went too far. I think your wife is lucky to have someone who is so honest and who stopped before it went too far. And someone who does all the right things to repair. She is very lucky.

Looking, you are just in total turmoil. You sound exactly as I have been, for quite some time. I am not married, & don't have kids with my man, so there is less pressure for me to stay. Less reason to make a go of it no matter what (though I do feel more for him than I ever felt for anyone before). I warn you though, if you are anything like me, if he doesn't start helping you in the way he should then given some time you may end up getting the point where you feel you have done all you can to get past it all, pointed out to him what he must do, pleaded, tried different things, and for him to remain closed. In which case, moving on and breaking up the family will seem like the better option than a future of turmoil, uncertainty, upset, unhappy...and so on. This is all based on BTW what I have read of your situation, & my own. So none, some, more may be applicable, or not. I am now 8-9 months after finding out and still I feel he hasn't opened up to me properly. I have answered your last thread so may be repeating odd bits. apologies. I now feel I have pretty much done all I can. I now feel more and more that I can't continue this way. I have felt this frequently anyway, broke up with him several days here & there, not long enough probably. But I feel I am really getting to the end of the rd. I feel we are clinging on by threads at the moment. I feel my love fading. He has made a lot of effort in certain areas, but not given all I need. And so I think it is the end of the line. Not long now. Only a few more efforts left in me I believe. And once the love is gone, that is it. There will be no turning back for me. Even though I have tried to tell him, I don't think he truly believes the closeness of the exit to what is us. I think he believes if he shows me enough love then he can ignore the rest. Sweep the difficult stuff & just get on with the love. Well, the love don't mean nothing if I don't believe it does it. If I don't believe him. If he is not giving me his all & continues to leave me guessing about so much. I don't know if this is where you are heading, if your situation & man are as similar to mine as I think. But I found something yest that I hope, once my man has read it, will help him to understand what is necessary and what I need. I thought of it as I read your thread. Your turmoil is so very evident in what you write and the way you write. You sound like I was, am, just want someone to tell you all the answers, where's that crystal ball! And the only reason you are looking elsewhere for your answers is because you are not getting them from the person who does have them all. Same reason I am here. I wanted someone to give me all the answers. I don't get them off the one person who has them. How cruel. But no-one outside does have them. Advice...good and bad...but no answers. Even your friends who know u. Know him. Only he knows the answers to your questions, and only you know the best way you should deal with them, once you have them.

The post is by 'Almost Recovered' and is the 2nd one down. The 1st refers to terms and abbreviations used on this site. There is also a useful white box near the bottom of the first post that gives examples of reconcilliatory behaviour, and rug sweeping behaviour. The 2nd post, a good way down the page, describes almost perfectly the emotions we go through as a betrayed partner, and the things they have to do in order to minimise the damage. It is just spot on. I am going to get my man to read it tomor or Weds when I see him, try and get him there, again, where I need him to be. He will prob read it...but with disdain. After that, I will be even closer to leaving if it makes no difference. and that may be a step too far, as there are very few steps left. He does do a lot of things to make me believe he is dedicated to me. But he won't deal with the issues, the proper ones, the big ones, with me properly. He steps on the road, walks, and then turns back again. I just want him to talk to me without fear of ME (!) ruining an evening, a weekend. I want to chat, and then it is over. The more I chat, the less I need to. But I am still in turmoil because of the lack of chat. The lack of openness. I believe while you do not know, while your questions & issues remain in your head, you will remain in turmoil. He is not helping you. He is leaving you strapped to that fiery wheel in hell, eternally turning with no way out. I don't mean to be over dramatic, but how can issues be resolved if they can't be chatted about. Until they are gone. How can the pain go if it remains in your head with no outlet. He needs to be your shoulder to cry on and your outlet for anger and love and questions and chat and so on. The link is:


talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html



For waywards wishing to help their betrayed spouses to

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.



A great post. Very good. It must come from some marriage guidance stuff or something, it is not just written opinion. Therefore, spot on without the crappy emotional baggage. Objective.

And so spot on.

ashamed74

My hats off to you for making the best choice of chosing your family. It's a great story and where me and my wife are heading.

LookingForTheSun

It has been almost a month since my last post. I still have triggers, sometimes a trigger is just my own mind wandering, so it helps to keep busy. I have been going through a range of emotions, I think my current opne is anger. I hide it pretty well, and deal with it pretty well. I am trying really hard to keep this marriage in tact, and I believe WS is too. He is dealing with his own demons - listens to a lot of music that has to do with self loathing, anger, regret, and sometimes I find one about a girl and how he was drawn in and then detroyed. I think he is trying to do the right thing. I think he wants to be here, but still has torn feelings. We don't really talk about it. I am tired of the drama and arguements that follow when we do. He told me the other day that he loved me because of the way I made him feel as he watched me sleep - that I looked happy and at peace. I am emotionally exhausted. Sometimes I feel like my heart is not in it, but I keep going because I know us as a couple and us as a family is what I want, but it is hard to look past sometimes and wonder how he could have just turned on me and treated me like I was nothing. I am giving all I can, adn sometimes more I think. I read that you have to act the part first, and the more you do, the more you will feel the part. My heart is still broke. I told him I forgive him so he can begin to move forward to. I told him that he needed to stop feeling sorry for himself and that he needed to find a way to deal with it so we can move on. He still keeps everything inside, but he has warmed up to me. There are days that I still hate him, moments that I love him, and times when I feel indifferent. We were great once. Every couple we knew wanted what we had....then he screwed up. I wonder if our downslide all began the first time he cheated...maybe he became a differnt person then. I told him that I did not want that person I married any more and that if he could not be faithful to leave now. I told him I could not have my heart broken again. It is still broken...can he be the one to heal it? It still feels awkward sometimes, even doing family things. Is that normal and can it eventually lead to a recovery? We went away this weekend with our girls....i broke down just a few seconds. He asked me what was wrong and I told him because it felt like we never skipped a beat and that we were doing what we always did. It was a good thing - I just wished he would have remembered about all of those times 5 months ago.

sigma1299

I think what you are going through is way more normal than not.

You told him that your forgave him, but did you really forgive him?

Are the two of you in MC?

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LookingForTheSun

We are not in MC - he is trying to deal with this on his own and has not talked to anyone besides me. I know that he never would go...more because he can't deal with sharing what he did than for not wanting to help us. Do I forgive him - yes - I had to so I could start to move on and work on rebuilding our marriage. It is what I want. Kind of like you had mentioned before when you said you forgave yourself but you will never forget - I feel that way. It will always be there, and I have accepted that. I think he is trying hard, but there are times when I know he is not focused...that he still has triggers to. I still cannot understand it. I am not in denial, but the gravity, suddenness and severity of it are so hard for me to understand. A couple of weeks ago we had an argument - he asked me what else he could do to fix things, to do and say the right things. I told him to "read the book", How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. This is a book I bought a couple of weeks after DD, and asked him to read it on several occasions so that he could know what I was feeling without me having to tell him and him getting mad. He finally did, and I know it hurt him - he could finally "hear" from someone else just what I was feeling, why I was acting like I was, and what he needed to do if he wanted to fix us. I think it helped some - gave him some understanding. I told him that a good part of that no longer applied, as I was past the affair. Now I am focused on us and our ability to move forward. I told him that he was the one holding us back now. I told him I understood he was going through feelings of his own, but he needed to find a way to get past the affair and turn his focus to us...that I could not and would not do it alone. Then for Valentine's day - flowers, chocolates, jewelry, and a note he wrote in place of a card - that he could not find a card from jackass husbands to great wives...this is what he wrote: Well, I looked for a card for some time and not too many say from a jackass husband to a great wife. So I decided to write you this note. I hope it reads how I feel. I want to spend my life being the hussbnad that you have deserved to have these last 15 years. I believe I have been at times the kind of man you deserve, but not enough to matter in the end. One thing has always been true, that I would hae given my life at any moment to save yours and protect you. Unfortunately, I was the one who was hurting you and for that I apologize to you for not being a true husband. We have two very beautiful daughters and a picture perfect family from the outside looking in. I promise to recreate that family on the inside for us. I will give you the best I can give and if that should not be enough I'll find a way to offer more. I fell in love with you a long time ago and we had something very special that I would love for us to say we still have it. (Then he wrote this) Always - I used to ask, what did I do wrong? Now I ask myself, what have I done right? A husband I've not been, A friend I've not been, A man I've not been, So who or what am I? I'm the person you have been with that lost his way. I'm the person that despite all of his flaws loves you and will...always!

Your thoughts? Is he closer to getting over OW/affair than not? Is his heart really in it, or is he playing the part to get there? I want to believe that he is feeling the love he says he has for me. I know it is different. I know there is more at play than just us. There is a big dark cloud that looms over us. I have moved myself as far away from it as I can. My focus is on rebuilding, getting to know each other again (because I don't think he really knows me - he told me that he used to think I was hard headed, but know he knows that I am just strong). I tried to ask him about him and what he wants in life, what he wants to do (which was difficult - I tried to skirt around what made him feel so great and what he dreamed/hoped to do) when he was with her. That was a disaster. He told me that he did not know what he wanted and that his head has not been straight for months...that was a bad night. It was after that that I stopped any refernce to that time whatsoever, but I did tell him that there would be times in our lives that things would come up that may refernce that time and that we would just have to learn to deal with them. the key word being WE. So, we are making plans for vacations, he wants his mother to come and visit us over spring break (I know that he needs to make amends with her, so I see that as a good sign). We are intimate, and we do tell each other we love each other....some times it is just better than others and sometimes it is just awkward.

LookingForTheSun

I guess my biggest concern is, is his recovery more now for the pain and hurt he caused, to me and himslef, or because he is still torn about the OW? Your thoughts?

LookingForTheSun

Remains - are you still out there? How are you doing these days?

sigma1299

Looking - I've started and wiped out a response at least three times because I can't find one I think constructive - I can only imagine your level of frustration.

Ultimately it's hard, if not impossible, for anyone other than him to know if his heart is really in it or if he's faking it until he makes it. Some of my standard advice to betrayed spouses is to listen to the actions of your wayward spouse, cheaters lie, their actions will give you a much better picture of where he really is. So what do his actions tell you?

It takes a while to really deal with this - years. You both have to accept and understand that the marriage you had before his affair is gone and it's not coming back. You can have a new one, even a better one, but the old one is gone. I suspect you understand that - do you think he does?

I'm as proud as any man, and I hate to ask for help just as much. If memory serves you've read my story and are familiar with how much i wanted to talk about my affair with my wife, how willing I was to be open with her. We talked and talked and talked about my affair - still do. But it wasn't enough for me - I still ultimately had to get help from someone outside my family for the first time in my life. It's how and why I found this site. The help I got here was enough, but had it not been my next step was counseling and I was prepared to follow through with it. He needs to talk to someone so he can come to understand what he did and why - if he doesn't it could very well eat him, you and the marriage. I'm not sure how you get him to see and accept that though. You can't force him to get help because it won't do any good if he's not open to it.

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