This is perhaps the first time I've ever said this, but I understand why his wife did what she did. Suppose you sacrificed so much for your significant other, dropped out of college TWICE to help him/her to advance their career, put their needs constantly before yours and then your significant other turns around and rewards you with an emotional affair followed by persistent emotional abuse. Why? why be so cruel?
This has nothing to do with with blameshifting, the OP eroded whatever love she had for him and consequently any respect. She went into this affair knowing the marriage is over anyway. Where you proceed from here is up to you, but you don't find many people who are so giving like your wife.
Like most cheaters she did it for one reason only, ego gratification.
Sadly you ARE justifying her actions.
Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual
Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.
Erm thanks for that though I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish..... I think more people here need to ascertain the difference between understanding something and condoning it.
She's at a point now where preserving a family isn't worth being with the OP hence her reluctance to give up the OM. She knows what her alternative is. If the OP hopes to change this, he needs to do some serious soul searching.
FYI to everyone else here, I'm not sticking up for her, I just understand why she did it.
I get her thought process too, still doesn't mean it's a healthy way to think. She's setting herself up for further disappointments.
If I met a man tomorrow who gave me that glimpse of what life could be like without all the difficulites I'm facing now, of course it would be tempting. But I also know it's not going to solve anything or automatically make my life better. It'd be the fantasy of possibility. It seems Dev's wife thinks an affair is the answer to her problems in life, but on some level she must know it's not, since she's not walking away from the marriage. She wants the ego boost and fulfillment she finds in the affair, but wants to keep the family lifestyle she's used to. Can't have both.
Erm thanks for that though I don't understand what you're accomplish..... I think more people here need to ascertain the difference between understanding something and condoning it.
Because regardless of the circumstances of the marriage there are ALWAYS alternatives to cheating. When you cheat you give up any moral high ground you might have had regarding problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the marital issues are/were once you cheat you trump them all. So I repeat:
I think you are projecting your own experience Complexity.
I have no idea how you can know so much about his wife from what has been written. People do have affairs for no reason at all. He could have verbally abused her a couple of times a year and she is blaming her affair on this or he could have been doing it all the time.
Maybe she dropped out of college twice because she wasn't too ambitious. Maybe she had no goals. You are thinking she gave up a bunch of things for her husband, but maybe she was happy to just be at home. I can assure that there are 'ego centred' people who have no ambition in regards to career.
Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual
You obviously believe that only bad people are capable of having affairs. That is simply not the case for even good people can have an affair by making a series of choices to cross marital boundaries.
What distinguishes the good people who have an affair from the bad people who have an affair boils down to one word, remorse. Don't believe me? Just ask some of the former unfaithful spouses here. Something that she is sorely lacking.
Lastly, my grandfather was a man who supported his wife, his children and sacrificed to make sure that they lacked nothing in so far as food, clothing and shelter. Unfortunately he was an a$$hole who was a drunk who emotionally abused those closest to him. To outsiders he was the image of the perfect husband and father, but those of us who knew him, knew differently. I wouldn't be surprised if Dev's wife happens to be just like good ol' grandpa.
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Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.
Your words, and not my beliefs, are proof of this.
Yes because a person who drops out of college twice, puts their self goals on hold to help their husband advance his career is really an ego centred individual
Whether you believe I'm justifying it is irrelevant.
I think what's hard is that we're only hearing Dev's viewpoint of everything, so he could be vilifying himself more than the reality. Granted, he could be downplaying it too. However, I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is in the aftermath of d-day turmoil. Many of us questioned ourselves and wondered where we failed as a spouse during that time. Having his wife confirm all his failures by blameshifting might be amplifyng them in his mind.
Unless Dev forced his wife to drop out of college against her wishes, she could've continued. Maybe he did force her, but if she stuck out marriage this long, having an affair is the worst way to improve her lot in life. Now would be the time to finish college and start a career, having the affair solves nothing. So it's her lack of foresight that has me seeing her motivation for the affair as typical WS. If she was so miserable in the marriage, her exit should've more planned and thought out and not a typical wayward mantra of blameshifting.
Erm I disagree. Constantly berating and putting down your spouse is abuse, abuse is not exclusive to physical violence.
We will have to disagree on the definition of abuse. I think saying mean things to someone is not the same as beating someone.
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Originally Posted by Complexity
I think you should back and re read what he wrote.
That's a good idea. He moved his family twice to advance his career. He told his wife that he was less attracted to her after she had gained weight. And he said some hurtful things while they were arguing. He didn't pay enough attention to his wife. He should have stroked her ego more. What a monster.
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Originally Posted by Complexity
You're looking at it superficially. A person as giving as his wife is (and I'm just going by what he's saying) doesn't just wake up one day and decide to have an affair because he said "you're getting kind of fat" once or twice a year. This must've been concerted and consistent remonstration. I completely understand that people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment but her primary grievance towards him is that he's a mean individual. This is built up resentment, his wife isn't a selfish or puerile individual, she's devoted everything towards him and he turns around and cheats on her, THIS is the issue I find most difficult to get over.
I think you're just looking for justification where none may exist. People have affairs for all kinds of stupid reasons. Eat, Pray, Love sold a billion copies about a wife who got bored with her nice guy hubby, so she had an exit affair and divorced her hubby.
What she's saying now may have little or nothing to do with why she cheated. There are very few women who will admit that they cheated because they were bored. They know how that sounds. So they have to say that he was a monster. "He didn't make me feel special enough. He didn't make my every fantasy come true. No, he didn't hit me. It was emotional abuse."
We will have to disagree on the definition of abuse. I think saying mean things to someone is not the same as beating someone.
Murder is not the same as battery, but they're both violent crimes.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Not the same as physical abuse, but still abuse.
Funny how easily the word "abuse" gets thrown out here when it comes to a wife denying her husband sex, but berating and insulting one's spouse is not abuse. Hmmmm.
I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions. Posted via Mobile Device
I thought this forum was titled 'Coping With Infidelity' not 'Your Wife Cheated Because You Were An A$$@#$%'. I guess I was mistaken.
Self-reflection should be part of coping with infidelity, don't you think?
I suppose it's easy, and totally understandable even, to direct all energies outward at a time when you've been greatly wounded. But I'm not sure it's best. Posted via Mobile Device
Self-reflection should be part of coping with infidelity, don't you think?
I suppose it's easy, and totally understandable even, to direct all energies outward at a time when you've been greatly wounded. But I'm not sure it's best. Posted via Mobile Device
Of course but when a cheating wife shows no signs of remorse or wanting to end her affair then why should a betrayed husband be excoriated for his past behavior? Have we done this to a betrayed wife in the past?
In his case, self reflection should come after he ends his marriage and moves on with his life, not during the time that he's undergoing enormous emotional upheaval and needs support and advice.
Because regardless of the circumstances of the marriage there are ALWAYS alternatives to cheating. When you cheat you give up any moral high ground you might have had regarding problems in the marriage. It doesn't matter what the marital issues are/were once you cheat you trump them all. So I repeat:
THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON TO HAVE AN AFFAIR
Once again beowulf read post #169, parroting the same thing over and over doesn't make you witty....or your point anymore valid.
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Originally Posted by SadSamIAm
I think you are projecting your own experience Complexity.
I did grow up in a household with an emotionally abusive parent and I saw the detriment of their actions on my mother.
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I have no idea how you can know so much about his wife from what has been written. People do have affairs for no reason at all. He could have verbally abused her a couple of times a year and she is blaming her affair on this or he could have been doing it all the time.
Maybe I am being too observant or maybe I think there's a fundamental problem with the way people discern the actions of others. Appraising people from an inflexible black/white angle is not helpful nor does it add anything in resolving the problem. What I find bizarre is that people are attenuating the OP's actions because they're superimposing the typical behaviour of cheaters and therefore assume the mould fits with his wife.
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Maybe she dropped out of college twice because she wasn't too ambitious. Maybe she had no goals. You are thinking she gave up a bunch of things for her husband, but maybe she was happy to just be at home. I can assure that there are 'ego centred' people who have no ambition in regards to career.
From what he's written, she dropped out of college for him. More specifically so that he can further his own career.
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Originally Posted by morituri
You obviously believe that only bad people are capable of having affairs. That is simply not the case for even good people can have an affair by making a series of choices to cross marital boundaries.
No it's the exact opposite morituri. People here seem to assume only bad people are capable of cheating. That's why they're all falling over themselves trying to shift all the blame on his wife. There's a little thing called tickle truth that coincidentally seems to come out at the later stages of these threads.
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What distinguishes the good people who have an affair from the bad people who have an affair boils down to one word, remorse. Don't believe me? Just ask some of the former unfaithful spouses here. Something that she is sorely lacking.
That's the main issue here. Why was your ex wife remorseful for her actions? you can fill the answer here. By contrast she feels he's undeserving of remorse because he's an abusive individual, something he too admits. I personally don't hold people or expect them to have saintly mercy or take the allegory of "turning the other cheek" to the extreme. Whether you believe that makes her a bad person is up to you.
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Lastly, my grandfather was a man who supported his wife, his children and sacrificed to make sure that they lacked nothing in so far as food, clothing and shelter. Unfortunately he was an a$$hole who was a drunk who emotionally abused those closest to him. To outsiders he was the image of the perfect husband and father, but those of us who knew him, knew differently. I wouldn't be surprised if Dev's wife happens to be just like good ol' grandpa.
you really don't think this evaluation is much more applicable to the OP?
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Originally Posted by Saffron
I think what's hard is that we're only hearing Dev's viewpoint of everything, so he could be vilifying himself more than the reality. Granted, he could be downplaying it too. However, I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is in the aftermath of d-day turmoil. Many of us questioned ourselves and wondered where we failed as a spouse during that time. Having his wife confirm all his failures by blameshifting might be amplifyng them in his mind.
Unless Dev forced his wife to drop out of college against her wishes, she could've continued. Maybe he did force her, but if she stuck out marriage this long, having an affair is the worst way to improve her lot in life. Now would be the time to finish college and start a career, having the affair solves nothing. So it's her lack of foresight that has me seeing her motivation for the affair as typical WS. If she was so miserable in the marriage, her exit should've more planned and thought out and not a typical wayward mantra of blameshifting.
Saffron, I get what you're saying but don't you think it's best to look at it objectively? The problem I perceive, is that we're peering at the OP with rose tinted glasses. I agree with everything you said, in an ideal world she would've done everything you've recommended and I do not condone her cheating whatsoever. However alleviating him from so much of the blame isn't fair.
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Originally Posted by PHTlump
That's a good idea. He moved his family twice to advance his career. He told his wife that he was less attracted to her after she had gained weight. And he said some hurtful things while they were arguing. He didn't pay enough attention to his wife. He should have stroked her ego more. What a monster.
Wow, I had to read that a few times and it's very worrying that you're being serious.
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I think you're just looking for justification
I stopped reading right there.
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What she's saying now may have little or nothing to do with why she cheated. There are very few women who will admit that they cheated because they were bored. They know how that sounds. So they have to say that he was a monster. "He didn't make me feel special enough. He didn't make my every fantasy come true. No, he didn't hit me. It was emotional abuse."
So even though the OP admits his own mistreatment led to the affair you still insist on making excuses for him?
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Originally Posted by FrankKissel
I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions.
Murder is not the same as battery, but they're both violent crimes.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Not the same as physical abuse, but still abuse.
Funny how easily the word "abuse" gets thrown out here when it comes to a wife denying her husband sex, but berating and insulting one's spouse is not abuse. Hmmmm.
I agree. Murder and battery are both not good, but one is clearly worse than the other. Just as physical abuse and hurtful words are clearly different. And you're correct that abuse is too often used. Admitting to your wife that she's fat, rather than stroking her ego is mean, perhaps even cruel. Just as withholding sex on a long term basis is cruel. But I wouldn't say either is necessarily abusive.
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Originally Posted by FrankKissel
I won't justify her cheating, but neither will I join the chorus of voices here excusing his awful behavior and his prominent role in the disintegration of his marriage.
To borrow a common phrase around here, you guys are "rug sweeping" his actions. Posted via Mobile Device
Recognizing the difference in degree of their crimes is not rug sweeping. I'm simply questioning the cruelty of the OP. Moving one's family to further one's career can, only by the wildest stretch of one's imagination, be called cruel. It may be inconvenient. It may be unfortunate. It may be unnecessary. But it's not cruel. And I think that any woman who cites that as a reason to justify her affair and wish to divorce is simply grasping at straws in order to make her look less awful than she should.
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Re: Desperately want to end wife's affair 
