My wife (10 years, 4 kids) admitted to an EA with a man she met at the gym. I believe it lasted about 4 months. After discovery, she told me at one point that her heart was "entirely with" the OM and that she wanted a separation.
I asked her if he loved her and she said that "I think he could love me." I asked her if she was willing to lose a marriage of 10 years, a husband who does love her, and hurt 4 young children for the possibility that he might come to love her. She said yes. (not the greatest day of my life) ; )
Here's the question: after I was hit by the 'gut feeling' I checked the phone records and installed a key logger -- literally hundreds of text messages and hundreds of calls over the course of about 2-3 months; some of the TMs 40-50 strings long; some of the calls in excess of 90 min.
They didn't really communicate by e-mail and I cannot get the content of the TMs and I, of course, had no access to their conversations. I have asked her if it became physical and she said no. Although she did admit to visiting his house on one occasion to "see the landscaping."
Frankly, her answer (no PA) just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Would a woman really decide to leave her family for a man that she hadn't so much as kissed? I have asked her what they talked about for hours and what they texted to each other and she offered absolutely no specifics -- just general non-incriminating bs.
After a NC period of about 5 months and much MC, I find out from the key logger that she has opened a secret e-mail account and has sent the OM the following message (apparently in response to a note he handed to her at the grocery store). "Despite thousands of dollars in therapy and being in hell for months, I would like to talk to you. I can meet at X (public) place at X time. Remember, you still have something of mine. (signed) X (no "love" no "xxoo" just X)."
I lost my mind (stupid) and immediately confronted her about it before the meeting took place. I asked her why she did this and she said she had to meet him in order to tell him that she didn't want him in her life anymore. I asked her what he still had of hers and she said "I don't know. I was just doodling." Again, I find this simply not credible. Why would you arrange to meet someone to tell them you don't want to see them again? It just makes no sense to me. Further, you don't write "you still have something of mine" out of the blue as a "doodle." It just has to be a lie, right? Am I crazy?
Bottom line: Even though she denies it and I can't prove it, I feel 80% certain that this thing was physical. I think that she won't admit it simply because she knows that I have no proof.
From the evidence, what does everyone here think? Any advice as to how I can find out? I know some here might say "EA/PA? What's the difference? An affair is an affair." but this is a extremely important difference to me.
You will get a lot of messages here. IMHO, the affair has most likely gone physical.
How has been your sexual life? This could be one of the indicators.
You will get a lot of messages here. IMHO, the affair has most likely gone physical.
How has been your sexual life? This could be one of the indicators.
Just let her go!
The affair is not currently happening (as far as I know). We are working on our marriage but this latest episode has not helped my trust at all.
She tells me that I'm making all of this up in my head. I literally have no one else to ask about this stuff so I came here. I can't talk to anyone I know because I am just so ashamed.
To answer your question. When the affair was happening there was no sex. Zero. None. During the NC period, sex has been frequent and good.
This case is so typical of Trickle Truth (TT). She will only admit to what you know. Yes, I would say it's very likely a PA.
OM is local - so there opportunity for it going PA is extremely high
OM has some of her property - indicating that she was probably over at his place. Maybe she left some panties or lingerie there or something
On going EA of four months - EAs are only a prelude to a PA, especially if the OP is local
Not knowing is bad enough. The biggest problem you have right now is that she opened a secret email account and "fished" for renewed contact with OM. It doesn't matter if there were no "love you" or anything like that. The point was to fish for renewed contact and rekindle the affair.
If you really, really need to know if this is a PA, then you can go thru Dex Knows and look for a polygraph tester in your area since this difference is so important to you. If she refuses, then you have your answer.
Personally, it wouldn't matter to me, because I would assume it is a PA no matter what she says to me because of the above. The question you should ask yourself is what kind of consequences are you going to enforce to her because of her breaking NC and taking measures to take the affair underground (secret email). She said she was willing to end the marriage over this guy. Time to show her the reality of the situation. Let her go. For the meantime, you've already lost her to this man. Find out if he's married or has a GF. If so, expose this to the OMW. She may actually have more evidence than you.
The affair is not currently happening (as far as I know). We are working on our marriage but this latest episode has not helped my trust at all.
She fished for renewed contact and she created a secret email to take it underground. The affair is still ongoing in her head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyosha
She tells me that I'm making all of this up in my head. I literally have no one else to ask about this stuff so I came here. I can't talk to anyone I know because I am just so ashamed.
This is called gas lighting. Look it up. Your WW still refuses to own up to the affair, and any attempt to R will only result in False R if she's not truly remorseful. Take a look at this table. If she's not totally in the left column, she''s not remorseful and there can be no True R.
This case is so typical of Trickle Truth (TT). She will only admit to what you know. Yes, I would say it's very likely a PA.
OM is local - so there opportunity for it going PA is extremely high
OM has some of her property - indicating that she was probably over at his place. Maybe she left some panties or lingerie there or something
On going EA of four months - EAs are only a prelude to a PA, especially if the OP is local
Not knowing is bad enough. The biggest problem you have right now is that she opened a secret email account and "fished" for renewed contact with OM. It doesn't matter if there were no "love you" or anything like that. The point was to fish for renewed contact and rekindle the affair.
If you really, really need to know if this is a PA, then you can go thru Dex Knows and look for a polygraph tester in your area since this difference is so important to you. If she refuses, then you have your answer.
Personally, it wouldn't matter to me, because I would assume it is a PA no matter what she says to me because of the above. The question you should ask yourself is what kind of consequences are you going to enforce to her because of her breaking NC and taking measures to take the affair underground (secret email). She said she was willing to end the marriage over this guy. Time to show her the reality of the situation. Let her go. For the meantime, you've already lost her to this man. Find out if he's married or has a GF. If so, expose this to the OMW. She may actually have more evidence than you.
Why do you say I've lost her? She's with me and says that she has had no more contact with him after the secret e-mail.
She says she wants to make the marriage work.
Am I being stupid? Damn, I feel like I'm losing my mind. When I first found out about the (admitted) EA, I couldn't eat or sleep. I lost about 25 pounds and almost got fired from my job.
Now I feel like this is killing me all over again.
Why do you say I've lost her? She's with me and says that she has had no more contact with him after the secret e-mail.
Actions, not words. What do her actions show? That OM is STILL in her heart and mind, that she thought to fish for renewed contact even after FIVE MONTHS shows that the affair is still going on in her mind. She misses him. That's hurtful enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyosha
She says she wants to make the marriage work.
Remember actions, not words. Creating a secret email account, and then secretly emailing OM to meet up with him? Is that wanting to make the marriage work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyosha
Am I being stupid? Damn, I feel like I'm losing my mind. When I first found out about the (admitted) EA, I couldn't eat or sleep. I lost about 25 pounds and almost got fired from my job.
Now I feel like this is killing me all over again.
What have you found out about the OM? Is he married? Does he have a girlfriend? Have you exposed the affair to the Other Man's Wife (OMW) if he has one? This affair needs to end now.
She needs to know now, that ANY contact will result in immediate divorce. If OM contacts her and she doesn't report it, that's also breaking NC because its a lie of omission.
Although she did admit to visiting his house on one occasion to "see the landscaping."
Right.
I'm sorry that you are in this position, but they are physical.
She is not working on your marriage as long as she is not telling you all the details that you ask for and seeing/contacting him in secret.
Actions, not words. What do her actions show? That OM is STILL in her heart and mind, that she thought to fish for renewed contact even after FIVE MONTHS shows that the affair is still going on in her mind. She misses him. That's hurtful enough.
Remember actions, not words. Creating a secret email account, and then secretly emailing OM to meet up with him? Is that wanting to make the marriage work?
What have you found out about the OM? Is he married? Does he have a girlfriend? Have you exposed the affair to the Other Man's Wife (OMW) if he has one? This affair needs to end now.
She needs to know now, that ANY contact will result in immediate divorce. If OM contacts her and she doesn't report it, that's also breaking NC because its a lie of omission.
OM is divorced. He may have a girlfriend.
"Stop ****ing spying on me." What she said a few days after I confronted her about the secret e-mail account most definitely are not the words of a remorseful person.
I thought we were through the worst part. ****.....
"Stop ****ing spying on me." What she said a few days after I confronted her about the secret e-mail account most definitely are not the words of a remorseful person.
I thought we were through the worst part. ****.....
I'm so sorry that you're in False R. If she was truly remorseful, she would be willingly and happy that you're checking on her so that she can say "See? I'm not doing anything!". She would want to re-build the trust with you that she destroyed. Instead, you get the anger and telling you to stop spying on her.
It's time for consequences, otherwise, she's in rug sweeping mode, and just waiting for the dust to die down so she can resume the affair with OM, or get into another one. She shows no remorse, nor is she empathetic to your feelings. She says she wants to work on the marriage but doesn't want to rebuild trust with you? Without trust, what is left? And she certainly doesn't care if you don't trust her.
R is hard enough when your partner is 100% committed to making it work, how much more difficult is it when your WS doesn't want to even be transparent?
In my opinion Alyosha you need to get your affairs in order pronto! You need to consult an attorney, separate finances and file for divorce. You know enough already to make an informed decision so there should be no more need to spy on her.
Let her know through your actions that you are ready and more than willing to move on.
No woman would be willing to leave her husband of 10 years and her 4 children if the the affair had not become physical. For her telling you it was only an emotional affair for 4 months is an insult to your intelligence. She clearly is playing you for a fool.
1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See a lawyer.
Why do you say I've lost her? She's with me and says that she has had no more contact with him after the secret e-mail.
She says she wants to make the marriage work.
Am I being stupid? Damn, I feel like I'm losing my mind. When I first found out about the (admitted) EA, I couldn't eat or sleep. I lost about 25 pounds and almost got fired from my job.
Now I feel like this is killing me all over again.
Ah, the break up diet.
Yes. Use that to your advantage. Start lifting weights to tone and release anger. Seriously. You may be screwed, but you can at least look good.
I feel sorry for your children And trust me when I say that she is in this fog of the affair. She is truly in some weird land where reality has no ground. I feel so bad for you...but you are not alone. Just get your shet in order and start the 180.
39Likes
What is the likelihood of a PA? 
And trust me when I say that she is in this fog of the affair. She is truly in some weird land where reality has no ground. I feel so bad for you...but you are not alone. Just get your shet in order and start the 180.
