Some of the good:
I got into therapy, have my second session tonight. I really like my therapist, she is my age with a child almost the same age as mine. Felt like we really connected. She has me taking time for myself, which I have done pretty well. I'm working out, have a massage scheduled and a hair appointment for a new sexy 'do. I'm not letting myself be quite as obsessed about finding more things, and am trying to just focus on what will make me a better person going forward with or without DH.
DH is trying most of the time. He has been mostly willing to answer my questions. He has agreed that I am not asking anything unreasonable of him, but then I seem to have to remind him of that everyday. He is as sweet as pie from that point on. He still tries the same kind of manipulation that always worked on me in the past but when he starts I have put my foot down.
He is going to nightly AA meetings. He wrote and I sent a no contact letter. She tried to contact him before she received it but nothing since. He did not reply to her and told me right away. He finally scheduled his appointment for STD test. He claimed he "just hadn't had time". I told him he would have found time to schedule an appointment if it were for pills, and to show me the same respect. Five minutes later, it was scheduled. He has done some nice things for me he hasn't done in a while and I appreciate that.
The bad:
We are in disagreement about a few things that have seemed to be road blocks. If they can't be resolved in MC, I don't see much hope. He claims the A never would have happened if it wasn't for pills. I can see that the A may not have continued if it were not for his physical dependancy on them. BUT, he says he was only using occasionally before he met OW and she propositioned him the second time he went to get pills. And that it was "exciting at first". In my mind, he did not need the pills to maintain at that point, and thought pills+sex, I just fell into the best situation ever! He of course thinks this is crazy.
He "doesn't remember" a lot and when he does it is always with a "maybe yeah". Not taking responsibility I think. But then I present him with a specific day I was pretty upset about 3 months ago (we were on a date night and he texted her the whole time then went to see her before he picked up our son). Remembers every detail about that one all of a sudden! I ask how he is able to remember all that and he says cause it wasn't that long ago. When I say he should be able to tell me everything exactly for the last 3 months then - silence. I know he is TT the h*** out of me. It is funny to watch because he is TT both the A and the drug addiction, and he contridicts himself constantly. He plays down his addiction, it makes the A sound worse. He plays down the A, it makes his addiction sound worse. It's a no win situation for him until he can man up and take responsibility for all of it.
Exposure to his family has been a disaster. His parents won't talk about it at all until they are drunk, then call and yell at him and just a bunch of drunk nonsense. His sister has used this to be the "good child" and is just being a brat. So they are helping in no way, really are making it worse. I am really angry about all of this.
I know I am not that far out of D-day, will the truth come easier with a little more time? He tells me he doesn't know why he let it cross the line...that is pretty important to know so it doesn't happen again right? Thanks for listening to all my babble, needed to get it all out.
Since my H has not admitted any wrong doing even though there is a ton of evidence I really don't know how to respond to your post. I'm struggling with not getting the truth that I know is there. I'm starting to resign myself that I will probably never get the truth, just a divorce.
Lonestar,
I am so sorry that your H has not given you any of the truth, what a hard place for you to be in. Is he trying to do some things for you but the truth you are looking for is a road block or is he just not remorseful? I feel like my H is remorseful, but is stuck in old habits and is still in somewhat of a fog and that truth will come out soon. That's the only reason I have stayed at all, maybe you are hoping for the same thing? Thank you for your support, it's meant a lot to me. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I have recieved most of what I need from my WS for R to continue.
My WS had sex with the OM the first time on Sept. 9th 2011. She remembers the details and has told me.
My WS remembers 4 times. I know of 6 and am 100% sure of those dates and times.
She does not remember Sept 27th the second time. We came home from Disney on Sept 24th the OM left with his family for Disney a week later on Oct. 1st. My WS says she only sent text to the OM about Disney and I said, no you talked about what you did at Disney (in person) and what he should visit while you were having sex with him.
My WS says she was never out past 9 P.M. with him. Twice I know they were together past 10:30 P.M.
She says she does not remember, yet I can create her entire day, who she talked to on the phone, who she text, where she was, etc. Hell, it is as if I was freaken there and she does not remember.
It is not amusing at all when they don't remember.
My mind goes to this. If you can't remember are you really saying that there is something worst that I don't want to tell you. I shared this with my WS and she says I understand but I really don't remember.
__________________
This kind of cosmic dumbassery occupies a temporal plane of ineptitude and lack of reason so profound a Zen master could spend a lifetime meditating upon its philosophical consequences.”
I have recieved most of what I need from my WS for R to continue.
My WS had sex with the OM the first time on Sept. 9th 2011. She remembers the details and has told me.
My WS remembers 4 times. I know of 6 and am 100% sure of those dates and times.
She does not remember Sept 27th the second time. We came home from Disney on Sept 24th the OM left with his family for Disney a week later on Oct. 1st. My WS says she only sent text to the OM about Disney and I said, no you talked about what you did at Disney (in person) and what he should visit while you were having sex with him.
My WS says she was never out past 9 P.M. with him. Twice I know they were together past 10:30 P.M.
She says she does not remember, yet I can create her entire day, who she talked to on the phone, who she text, where she was, etc. Hell, it is as if I was freaken there and she does not remember.
It is not amusing at all when they don't remember.
My mind goes to this. If you can't remember are you really saying that there is something worst that I don't want to tell you. I shared this with my WS and she says I understand but I really don't remember.
I can re-create it too, it's just crazy how you can know so much and not be there and they have no idea!
I have told my DH the same thing and he replys the exact same thing. Maybe they are long lost siblings.
You say at the beginning of your post that you have received most of what you need to R, is this one of your sticking points too? If not, how are you able to be okay knowing her story doesn't match the facts? I'm such a factual, black and white type of person that this part of it is driving me crazy.
You know, I have read several threads like this here on TAM CWI and just so you understand some background, I am both a former loyal spouse and a former disloyal spouse. I suspect this will not be a popular thought, but it is the truth nonetheless.
Let me ask you a question. On January 27th this year were you out of the house? Until 9pm or 10pm? Were you wearing white underwear? Why? How about February 9th? Did you wear brown shoes or black? Did you eat lunch at noon or 1pm? Did you buy it?
My point is this. As any person goes through a day, some of the details tend to blur together a bit. Now as a loyal spouse you can go through and find various documentation that would confirm that on January 27th your disloyal was out of the house until 10pm that night...not 9pm. So if they say "Man I don't remember" or say they thought it was 9pm that could well because people just don't remember every detail--even about affairs. To them, on January 27th it may seem like they came home "early-ish" and thus they may think remember it as more toward 9pm.
So just think of your own life. Can you remember what time you kissed your spouse on February 17th? Me either! I know I did--well I'm pretty sure I did because I kiss him every day. I tend to kiss him in the morning for good morning, around lunch or break time, and welcome home at night...and then goodnight kisses. But maybe that day I DIDN'T kiss him! Am I lying then? Maybe I kissed him at 10am and not 9am.
My point here is just this. If I gave you a pile of receipts and your calendar and your PC history, you may well be able to recall the day and remember what time you had lunch and whether you paid...but without the paper trail in your hand, it is possible you may have a more blurred memory--and that is not you being a liar or a lack of transparency. It is day by day by day blurring into each other. If you can not remember the exact times you kissed your spouse on February 17th (which is just two weeks ago) it's not because you don't love them or because it's not important to you! And if you can not remember two weeks ago, isn't it within reason for your disloyal to not remember two MONTHS ago?
Now... when you have your receipts and you know that they were out until 10pm and not 9pm...rather than setting them up for a fall and saying "Were you out until 9 or 10 that night?" ask what's really bothering you. Why is the 9pm or 10pm significant? Did they miss a funeral or something? See what I mean? Maybe it was 9:45pm and you see that as 10pm and they see it as "well it's wasn't 10pm yet so that's 9-ish." And no I'm not saying to trust without verifying--but I am saying that what needs to be discussed would be "why you missed the funeral" and not whether it was 9pm or 10pm.
As long as you keep on with the "was it 9pm or 10pm" I guarantee that even an honest, open, transparent disloyal spouse will think: "DARN I don't remember the exact time! What do I do? Okay I remember it wasn't too late... I remember it seemed earlier than I wanted... I think it was closer to 9pm" and then say 9pm and BAM! You attack cuz you have PROOF it was really 10pm and they just learned to never, ever tell you or they'll get attacked; it's much easier to just say "I don't remember" (because you sort of don't) and just take the hit. Instead, I encourage you to act in a way that encourages them to remember! Be the kind of person that is safe and they'll probably be able to remember more because they aren't afraid!
Okay--as I mentioned this probably won't be popular but seriously. I do not remember what time I kissed my Dear Hubby on February 17th and he means the world to me. I don't remember the exact day and time I realized he was the man I want to marry. I don't remember how many times we've made love this last month. Do you?
Thank you for your reply Affaircare, and I absolutely understand what you are saying. I don't remember things exactly either.
He has told me it only got physical 4 times in a year. If I had only been with him 4 times in a year, I think I would remember a little about what happened each time. And as I said in my original post, he can remember things pretty exactly when nothing happened which is strange.
This really is all for not though after some things I found out this afternoon. He has lied to me about how he met her - she was a co-worker instead of her coming into the store one time. I now know exactly who this woman is. Since I know he is still lying I don't think I can continue with the marriage.
Like I said, I completely understand where you are coming from, and it would have been very helpful to me if I wouldn't have found out what I did today. But this is no exact time, day, how many times stuff, this is a pretty big whopper flat out lie.
Right I agree with you. There is a difference between, "Well she came in the store one day and we hit it off and she periodically kept coming in and one thing lead to another..." and "Well she worked with me every single day and I'm going to cover that up." That clearly indicates an attempt to protect the AP and also clearly indicates where loyalties lie...and it's not at home with the wife to whom he owes 100% of his affection and loyalty due to the promises he made on your wedding day.
And I'm glad you didn't take my thoughts in the wrong light, as if to say it's okay for a disloyal to say "I forget" and sweep things under the rug. Nope!! In some instances some of the finer details may be blurred from day to day (like, 'Did you get flirty emails from OP on Monday or Tuesday?" and it just seemed to them like it was pretty much everyday...), in which case it seems to me the answer that's most transparent would be "Well to be honest I don't remember the detail of which day but I do remember that it pretty much felt like we exchanged flirty email every day." Right?
Anyway I agree--pretty big whopper and he's clearly protecting her and not you (and/or the relationship between him and you). I'm sorry it's come to this. I take it he is still working with her then? If that's the case, no doubt the affair is still ongoing for him because even just seeing her will be a bit of an "affair fix" for him. No Contact means NONE...NADA...EVER.
I, likely, disagree with AC. A cheating spouse must make an attempt to see the AP. Those details of the planning are not like, what did you eat for dinner on a random night, more like, what did you eat for dinner at that fancy restaurant that you went to once. Also, doing something wrong also sticks in your gut/head, so, unless the WS is sociopathic, the facts should stick. That said, somethings that are sufficiently old or unimportant are forgotten.
Thanks Affaircare...there are some other big whoppers too. Really, it's probably worth another thread but I'll do the update here.
I did something not always condoned on TAM, I texted the OW. I did this for a few reasons:
1- I have had a hard time finding her husband. He is out of town all the time for long stretches
2- She did not get the NC letter until a week ago, and she had only called/texted my H one day. Two calls, one text that was simply a ? spread over 5 hours. No attempt to contact since. I figured she was not completely crazy
3- My DH story just was not adding up. I wanted to see what she would tell me.
4- I did this over email so I would not show any cards or emotions to her.
I was as sweet as sugar. She texted back pretty quickly, said she would love to talk to me. Email to me telling her side started off talking about them working together. SHOCK! Good thing we weren't talking in person. Says she had a major surgery after she first started, DH was the only one who called her to check up on her and the only one who cared. He asked for some of her pills, she gave them to him, and sometimes they would meet at a store on the days she did not work so he could get them. Of course, she denied anything sexual was going on.
I immediately call DH's best friend who also works at the same place. I tell him she worked there, he asked her name and told me who she was. More shock. She is the SIL of one of the owners!! I remember with those details exactly who she is. She was always lovely to me (of course!). She stopped working there in August, and it makes so much sense now how his phone records didn't show him texting and calling her much until August. I assume being SIL, she could return to work there at any time, probably why he didn't tell me they worked together.
I decide to email back pretending to know all about they were co-workers. Tell her that DH has already told me about the sex and that I would appreciate her being honest with me. I pile on the sugar thick from then about how I have no beef with her, he is the one who broke his vows, and I'm not going to shoot the messenger. She doesn't reply for a few hours so I text piling on some more sugar, that I was sorry I probably shocked her with my last email and I just needed to know the truth to come to some peace.
Get the email a half hour later. The sex mostly adds up to what my DH said, except that there was oral both ways more than once. But she drops another big bomb I was unaware of: he had her start getting oxycotin from her doctor instead of percocet. He has flat out denied to me he has taken an oxy, what he was in rehab for, for 4 years.
I sent my reply this morning. I acted very understanding of her (of course I wanted to yell w**** at her, but I'm getting some darn good info here). Asked just two more questions of her, how this turned from friendship into physical and asked if they ever were physical at work. The part at work is important to me because DH has a history of doing this before when we were dating, and I have been a little suspicious of a few other people who have worked there. He of course has said he's never done anything like that at work with anyone. I made it clear that the info was just between her and I, and that I would never tell anyone at work because he could lose his job over that. I haven't gotten the reply yet.
I'm playing this thing cool with my DH. He has no idea. I'm going to get as much evidence as I can before I confront, then I will give him one last chance to come clean without revealing what I know or my sources.
I'm looking at lawyers. Pretty sure it is now headed down that path.
SprucHub,
I see your point too, and I agree to an extent. I think it depends a little on the spouse you are dealing with. If you have a type A, plans every detail of the day out spouse, I would expect a little more memory from that person. OTOH, if it is a spouse who is always flying by the seat of their pants and never thinking about concequences like my H is, you shouldn't expect as much detail. Yes, there is planning that goes into it etc but once it has been done so many times it starts to all run together for the DS.
2 weeks out, still so confused 
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