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remorse

11K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  sigma1299 
#1 ·
Qustion for all of you: What in your eyes is your definition of remorse? Is there a difference between guilt and remorse?
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#8 ·
LordMayhem said:
All credit for this goes to a poster named Fighting2Survive at the SurvivingInfidelity forum. It's a great guide to see if your WS is truly remorseful or just trying to sweep it under the rug.



INDICATORS OF REMORSE
* Actions match words.
* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.
* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.
* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.
* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.
* Answers questions honestly and completely.
* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”
* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.
* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.
* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.


Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal.

Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R.
 
#10 ·
JB is dead on... "Guilt is an Emotion". Nothing more, Nothing Less.

My wife has told me that she experienced Guilt during the years she was cheating on me. However, it was complemented with the thrill and high that she got off secretly being with the OM. She told me the at Guilt would come on a few days after an secret meeting for sex, but would dissipate with suppression (compartmentalization) of her actions from her "every day life". As in... "who am I really hurting if no-one really knows what I've done" ie. the victimless crime.

Remorse was never crossed or addressed until she was caught. Why? Because now her lies could no longer suppress the reality of how many lives, families, dreams for a future her reckless actions had destroyed forever. Just as you can't Un-Ring a Bell, you can never UN-Cheat.
 
#11 ·
Guilt is bad= I'm going to do it again and it sucks...butt.
Feeling bad for not making a change. The insanity of doing the same thing over again and expecting different results and still *feeling* bad, with no reason to change.

Remorse is good= I am better then this and will improve, my unhealthy behaviors are going away, not b/c of your consequences you have for me, but b/c of my own consequences I have for my self. A life style change that benifits me and in the end has a positive effect on my relationship with others. An *action* one takes to show a change to better them selves.
 
#13 ·
My wife has started saying a few right things, but still continues to be defensive and shifts blame for the A.

What are your thoughts on sharing the post on regret vs. remorse with her?

I am in a modified 180 with her right now. I am holding much of my thoughts to myself, but allowing her to talk. Should I share material from TAM with her? I sometimes feel like she needs a roadmap. But I guess, that is for her to go find, right?
 
#18 ·
The reason for asking this question was to see if I'm on the right track..EMotionally I am genuinly plugged back in. Just honestly wasn't sure because I do not hold my head down and cry every day anymore but I do all I can to keep my focus on hubby and make him my first priority. Why? because I realise now what I almost lost and never want to risk losing him again. Thank you all for your answers.
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#19 · (Edited)
You would not be feeling the way you do, or doing the things you are doing now if you were not feeling true remorse. You're doing fine.

Now you, along with Calvin, just have to establish boundaries for the two of you, a set of hard rules that you both must abide by for the rest of your marriage, in order to keep yourselves honest with each other.
 
#20 ·
Found this on survivingbetrayal.com about remorse and guilt.

The difference between guilt and remorse

I wish every formally wayward spouse well on this journey. For those who need some direction, the following may be helpful;

Real remorse means seeing the pain you caused someone, and reaching out to make it better. Feeling bad for the person in pain.
A person who feels guilt rather than remorse sees the pain of others (that they inflicted) as judgment, condemnation, and feels bad for themselves. What they feel for the person in pain is anger - anger for showing them what they don't want to see (the consequences of their actions).
Someone who feels remorse for doing a bad thing will always consider the thing they did to be bad.
Bad feelings associated with guilt are situational, and change with circumstances.
Someone really remorseful doesn't want to repeat a harmful action - they aren't even tempted to. Real remorse means never doing it again, self accountability.
Someone who feels guilty can still repeat the actions causing the guilt, precisely to escape the guilt. The only way to end feelings of guilt is self accountability - guilt happens when someone runs from it.
Remorse says "I'm sorry I hurt you".
Guilt says "stop making me feel bad for what I did".
Remorse cares more about the one wounded. They don't care about others holding them accountable because they already hold themselves accountable.
Guilt worries more about how the wounded one makes them appear in the eyes of others. They feel their self image is being attacked. They do worry about others holding them accountable because they shirk self accountability.
Remorse means learning from one's harmful actions.
Guilt means not even facing what one has done, so learning from it isn't likely.
Remorse means leaving the harmful actions one did in the past, but not forgetting them.
Guilt carries harmful actions around, keeping them ever present, by attempting to avoid dealing with them. They will always be ever present, a thorn in ones side, looming large and affecting one's life until faced and dealt with. This is self inflicted torture - although a person struggling with guilt will blame others.
Remorse leads to the ability to forgive the self.
Guilt leads to self hatred.
Remorse is action, actively doing something about the harm one caused.
Guilt is feeling self pity and doing nothing about the harm one caused.
 
#24 ·
Not this one I had her read some other stuff I downloaded about what the BS goes through. It was a long read and after she read it things changed for the better. It was about a month ago. She at least has a good grasp on what BS go through and has adapted accordingly. Her IC told her today that she is doing great and does not need to come back. Now I am ready for some MC. I had told my WS that I wanted her to come to grips with her issues before we start MC and I think I am at a place to do that.

At the beginning (after D-day) I was looking for my WS to screw up, get in contact with the OM more than the one time after D-day, (she did once within a few days to say goodbye - I confirmed that), or any other number of things to convince me further to file for D. Her remorse seems sincere. No attitude, no defensiveness, no argueing. She knows I have done more than most guys would have to stick it out.

This past weekend I felt something was a little funny and I checked everything out, computer, phone, etc. I finally sat down with her and asked her a question about the computer and she denied it. Everything indicated that she was telling the truth. She said, I know you don't believe me but it is the truth. I didn't believe her but as I checked the computer it verified that she told me the truth. So far so good.
 
#22 ·
Thank you so much Thorburn for that info..the self hatred is going away..sometimes it creeps up on me but I think it's something Calvin can help me with
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#25 ·
Speaking as a former disloyal, I will say that one of the consequences we have to accept and embrace is that our actions destroyed trust and for a little while we will be "verified." As long as our words and actions match--as long as our loyal spouse verifies and sure enough we are doing what we said, home when we said we would be, with whom we said, etc. ... then the verification is the best way to rebuild trust and become intimately open with our spouse again. That's just the way it is.

For the OP (original post) I would say this:
Guilt is a feeling...an emotion you feel when you are doing something you know is wrong. It can feel "bad" but there is no particular indication of ending the wrong behavior!
Edited to add: "Guilt" can also be a state-of-being. If you commit a crime, you are "guilty" whether you feel it or not.
Remorse is actions...behavior that indicates you know what you did was wrong, you take personal responsibility for your actions, AND you make specific moves to do an about-face (in other words, stop the "wrong" behavior and start doing the "right" thing).
 
#26 ·
I want him to check me out..my phone etc..because this way he feels better and I feel better. He wants to trust me and I want to prove to him that he can..I guess that's why you all call it transparancy..I'm an open book and it feels good having nothing to hide.. thank God he gave me this one last chance and yes he reminds me he will never keep me if I were to do it again..but he good news is every day is getting better.
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#27 ·
Thorburn - that was a great post. I saw a lot of guilt from my WS up until about 3 weeks ago. I think there is still some there, but I think he is moving towards remorse. However, after his comment yesterday (I posted on my original post), "Even though I don't think about it, I have to remember that it happened".....I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, I know he partially meant that he needs to remember that I am still hurting even if I don't always show it. I cry almost every day still - maybe just for a second, but it is my reality now that I still can't understand. I just don't want him to push it so far back that it will every become a problem again. I want him to move on with us, but I don't want him to forget what it did to us and to me. (and my tears lately are from anger - that is on my post too)
 
#29 ·
CantSitStill,

I think you're doing great. My EA was almost eighteen and a half years ago and I still get down about it. Our stories are similar except mine was long ago and yours pretty recent, correct?

Sometimes when I am really down and I might be laying on the bed crying, dh comes in, sits down next to me and rubs my back or puts his hand on me, and sighs. He doesn't ask; he doesn't have to. He knows and it's ok. Granted, those crying jags are not frequent anymore because it was so long ago, but they happen occasionally.

You'll never forget and neither will he, but you are totally on the right track. My marriage has boundries that we both take seriously. We don't do Facebook. He knows I am on here. We have a password book right by the computer. We both have private e-mail accounts...I can go on his and he on mine. He knows if I say I am going somewhere with friends he can show up unannounced and that's exactly where I'll be. If I say I'm at the store, I'm at the store.

Believe it or not, we have even gotten to the point where we can joke about it. If I'm on a lingerie site looking at pretties, he'll come up behind me and point and say, "Order that one!" (talking about the model) I don't do that kind of thing as much, because I'm the one who betrayed, but I can totally take his teasing and be ok with it. I know we're solid.
There's times when I think
I should forgive myself, but honestly I don't entirely want to. That might invite complacency and I won't do that ever again.
I live with the memory of what I did. I don't think of it often anymore...I can go weeks or months without doing so, because my marriage is very happy now, but when I do think of it, it's a real *ss-kick to myself, one that I deserve.

You guys will be ok.
 
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