gpa

Well. One of y two has to buy a r-trip ticket. I do think that in this marriage there is hope and love. Be together even for a couple of days. Do not spend more time questioning yourselves and creating doubts. Its flying time dudes. For both of y.

warlock07

I was thinking that this was an exit affair too. If R, the trust will take 4- 5 years and having kids before that is stupid.

Beowulf

LIH and LB,

My wife had her affair 20 years ago. Our R was damned hard but we made it. If you both decide to R there is a lot of assistance available to you here on TAM and elsewhere. Help that my wife and I did not have. If you decide to divorce you have a place to post here and people to talk to. You aren't alone unless you wish to be.

Shaggy

so how was the OM contacting you ? Phone, email, chat?

You should block him because now that he's found you to available to him , he will be back for more. This is a guy who hooked up with you despite having a gf. Sounds like a real winner himself.

Married folk need to be together - and this extended apart for months is very much contributing to ending the marriage.

The only way I can see LIH being able to take you back, is if he can see real remorse in you.

The only way I can see you going back to LIH is him and you finding a way to actually live together in the same house.

Yes duty postings will pull you apart, but that's not forever and you can have a home you share until you can both be there full time.

If the two of you can't do those things, then it's going to be a long haul for both of you through IC, but divorce may be the best for the two of you.

and yeah, you really did mess things up starting on that cruise.

Perhaps now that he has had to actually face his worst fear: that you would cheat - he can begin to deal with facing it and find it in him to have more trust (but verified) in the future.

bandit.45

Let the divorce go on. The two of you can either reconcile and call the divorce off later, or stay together as BF/GF afterwards and go to CC. Either way, you need to accept that the marriage you had is dead. Stone cold dead.

I think that's why you cheated LB: you had given up hope and said, "What the f*ck, why not? This guy is hot, my husband cares more about his precious job than me.... why not?"

Not saying what you did was not wrong, but I guess I could understand where you were in your head.

Now you'll have to help LIH get over the mind movies he will have for the next five years... if you are strong enough. F*cking the OM until you could barely walk is an image most husbands would not be eble to forgive or get past.

I have my doubts you'll be able to stick it with him though... you guys have not exhibited any committment to one another so far, so I don't see how you would be willing to be on marital probation for the rest of your life.

chapparal

When I first read the first few lines of this thread, I thought this is useless. A man tries to have relationship where he is basically absent for six of the seven years. Case closed. I didn't even stick around to see what happened.

Then I accidently ran across LB's thread and I'm reading along and say OMG I saw that dudes thread. LOL

LIH admits he has trust issues, so what does he do , he gets a job overseas and leaves his wife to the wolves. FOR SEVEN YEARS. What I can't figure out is what is screwed up most. LB should have been gone a long time ago. LIH wants people to believe he's been celibate six of the last seven years. Bull Sh!t

I would say the same for LB but she has offered to take poly. What a miserable life he left for LB. And he's overseas with pathological jealousy. Unbelievable. This is like when Scrooge couldn't take time for his fiancee from his business.

LIH if you can't give up your traveling job just get over LB. LB if he doesn't quit his job, go find a man to love you and make babies. You have already wasted seven years.

chapparal

I wish we could get both sides of more stories around here.

Lost in Hell

What you'll all will never know is how much we supported each other through the hard times each of us experienced. With her past employment producing little to no income for periods of up to 6 months, this job was the one steady thing to keep the bills paid. I grew up with very little and never wanted that to happen again, nor did I want to have my future children have to endure that. It was most definitely not a simple choice of my job over her and she knew it. I didn't type out that I was actually home more than that (what I put in my original post) because in the grand scheme of things it will boil down to me being gone for far too long.

I planned on staying home for good after my first year or so. She then wanted to go back to school because her chosen profession wasn't working out. I got mad, but supported that decision by continuing to work. She graduated. I planned on coming home by saving as I finished out my obligation to my employer. She then decided she wanted to go back to school again for another profession. I flipped out. It was finally my turn to come home. In the end I supported her and continued working to support this. And by this, I mean I may not have paid towards school, but I kept the home and other things paid for. She did shoulder some financial burden, but a small portion by comparison. I will also add she is not a big spender. Not the typical wife out there blowing money on clothes and frivolous things. At times I actually had to tell her to go buy new things.

I actually stayed home for almost a year due to an injury. I still was able to pay all the bills and knock a year of school out (online) while laid up injured. This added to the resentment. Somehow I still felt like I shouldered all the responsibility to keep things together financially, even without any real source of income.

By this point things were getting worse in the communication department with her and me. Looking back I see now that I resented her for those decisions.

Me kicking her out/divorce, or threatening to, was a result of me telling her what I expected and what I thought our long term outlook/plan should be to make us work, so both of us could be home. She would shut down and not talk at all to me about it, or she would agree, but as soon as I left for work, it was right back at square one.

This was a major source of my frustration and I let her know about it. I have said something to her over and over for many many years during our conversations about how to make our future work. I won't type it here, but she will know exactly what I am talking about.

If she denies any of the above I will be surprised.

Neither one of us started this relationship planning for it to end this way. I have changed, as has she, very much over the years. I didn't always have trust issues with her. Those developed over time, maybe from me not truly ever knowing what she will decide to do. Education, professionally, etc. The more time spent away from home and the more I supported her decisions, the more resentment and lack of trust I developed. I thought that any day now she would pack up and leave me. Now that she was marketable she would walk away. Why else would she continue to want another degree or a new profession at the cost of me being gone? ←(my thoughts) I put so much effort into giving her what she wanted in material things (education/profession) that I over looked what she needed emotionally.

A few months after she moved out I started to realize that we could in fact make this work, but we both needed to lay everything on the table, which I did. One problem with all of this is that fact that all this time she has been telling me what was wrong with me, how I was wrong for feeling the way I did about her. It was my trust issues that made things devolve into the state we had now (prior to affair). She would rationalize her decisions to do things that bothered me by chalking them up to my trust issues or me being irrational.

I actually believed her. Everything up to this point (before affair) WAS MY FAULT. Whether it was right or wrong, I started looking in at myself. I read books and articles on how to get in touch with myself and how to cope with things. I read more books on how to mend the marriage, how to better communicate, pretty much everything I can get my hands on.

Slowly I was coming around the bend of dealing with my issues. I thought we were actually improving. It was somewhere around the fall of last year that I had an epiphany. I literally woke up one morning and saw the light. I was going to get through this and make US work. I started to plan on how to spend more time at home. Not completely yet though, I still needed to finish my degree to make that work and still be able to pay the bills, but close to a 50/50 split with work and being home. I know some of you look at that and still say “Not enough”, but realize we have been apart for such long periods of time thus far, this new plan would be a HUGE improvement that were both looking forward to.

I can verify all of this with emails. It wasn’t until this affair occurred that I realized, I was the only one doing this. I never realized she had pretty much checked out mentally from US. Again, it was me looking back at emails that would in fact make me realize I was so hard working on myself to improve myself for her, that I over looked her actions. Remember, I truly believed this was my entire fault up until her affair. So now I wonder if this was intentional? I was once again about to be able to spend more time at home and she did another thing to make sure that didn’t happen. I look back at her deciding to change professions, get another degree, etc and wonder if that was the plan the whole time? Keep me from actually ever being able to come home for good.

Let me tell you that all along, even before this past year, I have always felt like the woman in the relationship. What I mean by that is that I was the one trying to pry into her about how she felt and what we could do to make US work. I grew up with and around families where that was typically the actions of a wife that was trying to deal with a husband that had shut down. I have always been open and honest with my wife. I grew up actually learning what not to do, rather than what to do. I saw the bad examples growing up and told myself, never will I let that happen. Never will I cheat, lie, be physically abusive, etc because I saw how bad he consequences are. I lived them as a child.

I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I figured I would paint a bigger picture of what is going on in my head and our relationship.

I do not demonize Elle for being my wife or her actions prior to the affair. I saw them as things we needed to work through. I cannot however over look the affair. I know I will never forgive her for that. What I am trying to figure out is if I can move past that. I still very much love Elle and even now don’t want anything bad to happen.

The day I found out about the affair (or the original lie she told me which is completely different guys/course of events/etc) I was enraged. How could she do that to me? We talked for hours because I couldn’t ever believe she would do that to me. When she was finally on her 4-hour drive home she broke down (her car). I was so worried about her well being that I stayed up until she was able to get home. I don’t understand it.

I know it will take IC for me to start truly dealing with this. And to answer back on page 3 or 4, no haven’t received any IC yet. I do plan on it when I get home though. This forum has been insightful and I see good advice. I also see spiteful people that have been burned in the past telling me things too. I know to weigh each as each has something to learn from.

The divorce is simply going to happen. That is my one way of showing corrective action for what she did. I feel like I would somehow be accepting what she did if I didn’t get a divorce. I truly do want to work through things with Elle in the future. I still love her very much, but what I need to figure out with IC is if this feeling is true, or is it some sort of separation anxiety that I fear. Is it going to be worth it? For Love I say yes, for some twisted emotional reason I can’t explain, I don’t know.

Again, thanks for all the input, good or bad. Negative comments even help. I came to this forum for one reason: to get outside perspective on things. I made my decision about what I wanted to do before I posted a single thing here. I have been reading this forum for the better part of a year. I started way back when we separated. I never thought to get an account until now simply because I had nothing to offer, but I did soak up a lot of advice in that time. The comments and advice posted since have helped me stay sane and point me in the right direction.

Lost in Hell

Some people advised against me telling her about this forum and thread. They thought she would use it against me or learn better ways to deceive and cover her actions in the future. I didn't want this to turn into an Elle bashing thread. I wanted her to tell her side of things even if it painted me in a bad light. I wanted people to point out my shortfalls so I can really understand if I was in fact the cause of all of this. If I deserve the blame, lay it on me. That is the only way to truly deal with this.

I know some people come here simply looking for sympathy. I want to better understand all of this so I can better myself. If hat means I'm the a$$hole, then so be it. Honesty has a snowball effect.

I didn't care that she came on here. I told her to. I believe at some level she does love me, or did. I know in my heart if once she gets help she will find out if she truly still loves me or if she just doesn't want to end this for fear of some separation anxiety-mentioned earlier by other posters.

Some details of this affair really make me question if that is truly what it is with her. I just don't understand someone regretting their actions and still progressing the "regretful" actions for another month. All the while leading their spouse on about improving the future.


If she determines that she doesn't love me or this is all just too much, I think she will eventually move on. I would want her to. I mentioned it much earlier in the thread that separation and divorce were the only way I saw that I could truly make her happy. Nothing I did made her happy and I didn't want to see her in pain. I knew it would crush me to actually follow through with that, but I put her happiness above mine even if I showed it in a weird way.

As far as a poster saying I have been cheating on her, something to the effect that there is no way I could be gone this long and stayed faithful. I feel sorry for you for thinking people can't follow through with their belief structure. Other than a Polygraph, which I am willing to submit to, there is no way any of you will ever know.

If Elle thinks that is true I would love to here about it. I don't think she thinks that is true. I would never do that to another person. Think back to our agreement, which others have already pointed out as bull****. We had an agreement that if either one of us had enough or wanted to move on, we would tell the other and fix it or move on. It would hurt for both of us, but at least would be honest and open with each other instead of deceitful and ultimately end up crushing the other.

I see now that the agreement wouldn't have been needed had the communication been the way it should have been. We would have been open with each other and worked through the problems before it ever even got close to needing an out.

I finally got a full nights sleep last night since this started. I feel so much better today. And for those concerned about me drinking. I did it simply to go to sleep. I don't drown my problems in the bottle. Another thing I learned growing up with an alcoholic parent. Thats probably why I don't really drink much.

Lost in Hell

She is actually somewhat in the business which make it that much harder to figure out if she used that against me or if she really is that far gone.

Lost in Hell

This is something I have no doubts about.

Lost in Hell

She very much wanted to do the rug sweep and forget everything about all of this.

Her first post is pretty much how she has been filling me on the details. Her response to my letter to her about this (when I initially found out) was a 12 page response in which she detailed all the other factors in her life that led up to her getting a hotel room and how she was actually with another man that was her sisters unwanted boyfriend and how nothing happened. This was of course nothing but complete lies. Keep in mind this in before I found out the truth via emails.

After I started quoting emails is when the truth and more lies started coming out. I would catch her in a lie and then she would give in. I would find her in another lie and she would give in. This took place over and over.

I told her to t to lay it all on me. I was at rock bottom and I didn't want to start crawling up only to find out another lie and end right back at the bottom. This cycle continued over and over.

I still don't know if I got the whole truth or just enough.

warlock07

I still think there are more skeletons in the closet(Her stories seem a bit off). But I also think this is as far she will let on(she knows emails are all you have).

LIH, you said you had trust issues through out the marriage. Why do you think you had them? Was it anything ElleBee did or were they remnants from past relationships?

Edit: So the sister's bf was a complete lie?

Lost in Hell

I think when we started our marriage I was a different person, as was she. Looking back I never worried about her actions like have in the more recent years. I never worried about here going out for a girls night out, or going on vacation with her family without me. That developed over time. I noticed little changes in her that peeked my interest. So I guess, over time her actions made me trust her less and less. I would tell her things that made me uncomfortable and she would continue doing them. Telling me it was my mind that was the problem. If she told me something that made her uncomfortable I changed, I stopped doing it.

For instance, years ago she told me having an ex-girlfriend as friends online (myspace) made her uncomfortable. I told her that yes, she was an ex, but she married my best friend after we broke up. But I did end up removing her and never contacted her again. I told her the same thing about her ex's or other guys on her pages and she never removed them. I chalked it up to MY TRUST ISSUE that she repeatedly told me was MY issue.

For instance. Right after this cruise she wouldn't even talk to me about anything she did on the cruise. I got second hand information about it via Facebook. I didn't think much of it as she had to get right back to work and catch up on all the work she missed while being gone.

I started seeing pictures of another man (not the affair-the supposed unwanted boyfriend of her sister) and that got me thinking. She never even mentioned this guy until I confronted her about the hotel room. I did however see comments on her FB page by him and her family about things that made me uncomfortable. Like name tags with "pornstar" or "evil mind" or stuff to that effect.

That is what truly got me looking into what actually happened and why I started questioning why she was taking multiple trips to a town 4 hours away when she would spend less than 24 hours in town.


While I do think I had issues from past relationships, I don't think I brought them to our marriage. I think they were in the back of my mind, but not a cause for my current line of thinking. To say they weren't there would be a lie. I take experiences from my life and try to grow from them. Try to improve. It sounds corny, but I continually try to improve myself and our relationship for the better. I always thought people that grew content fell into ruts that would cause problems later in life. I always wanted us to look for improvement.

As far as never truly knowing about her past indiscretions, I will never know unless she tells me. I had feelings or hunches many times in the past, and have confronted her about it, but nothing ever came of it. She has mentioned it in her posts about me accusing her, but I think any husband (who at the time was not scheduled to be home) answers his wife's phone in the middle of the night and hears another man asking where to meet her would think the same thing I did. WTF!?

Or any husband who finds out after the fact about his wife going out to bars (with or without co-workers) would think the worst. Why wouldn't she just tell me thats where she was? And of course you can understand why I would be concerned about her going out and partying with her sisters.

I thought these actions were inappropriate for a married spouse to do. People don't go to bars without realizing that most guys are looking to hook up. Especially if you go out without your spouse and deceive him about where you were.

I realize people need to go out and blow off some steam and she intact informed me about going out with 3 male co-workers after our blow up (may have been before I found out the truth and still believing it was the sisters boyfriend story) and I told her thanks for telling me, I am uncomfortable with you going out to a bar with 3 other men, but I understand you need to blow off steam. Have fun.

But there are things that I truly find inappropriate for a married spouse to do, male or female, and she has over the years always told me that it had everything to do with my trust issues. I may be a little more old fashioned in my line of thinking due to past experiences, but I always tried to make her comfortable with my actions. She was uncomfortable about me going to a strip club for a bachelor party, so I didn't go. I didn't even go to one for my own bachelor party. I respected her enough not to put her in that position.

Granted there have been plenty of times in the past I did things that made her uncomfortable, and I have told her about it after the fact. (after the fact simply because I couldn't exactly pick up a phone and call her) Every detail. I was hoping to convey to her that despite doing what she didn't like, I was open enough to tell her about it. Keep in mind, I did nothing during these occasions that would damage my integrity. I was along for the ride so to speak.

One instance I can think of: I was in a very poor country working with some very important people. (I will never tell you all what I do for a living so I can only hope to convey my point with other things-and Elle knows what I do and has a general idea of the weight behind my work) So we have an incredible bad day. I was a liaison so to speak and my responsibility was to mend the problem that occurred. The very important people wanted to go to a brothel and it was my job to make sure they had good enough of a time to look past the problem that occurred that day. (Prositution is not illegal in the country this occurred in. And please save judgment on this-I know I can still be prosecuted under US law.) I ended up paying for 3 hookers to keep these people happy. She was upset with this after I told her. I guess my point is that I tried to make her understand why I did it and hopefully she would realize despite it making her uncomfortable, I still felt like she should know. I wanted to keep the honest and open lines of communication going.

I never heard much about it after that, with the exception of now. She brought it back up after this affair occurred.


I don't know where I was going with that other than to point out that, yes I have done things to make her uncomfortable, but I never deceived her and have always been honest. Also keep in mind that those actions were not normal and have never been repeated-brothel part.

Lost in Hell

The part of picking him up to run interference, going to the hotel, looking at photos, etc-YES.

The part about him actually being a boyfriend to the sister-I have no idea.

He may have had some part in all of this, on the boat, after the fact, I have no idea. He was most definitely in plenty of pictures. Sad part is the family knew of him and the other guy that she actually did this with.

But original story she told me, where he was an integral part-Heck yes. All lies.