The post “Do you think OM/OW was an upgrade or downgrade?” from Bandit is the reason why I decided to write this post.
When I read the post from Bandit I really had to think hard about it because I can’t really say for sure if I upgraded or downgraded……. But it brought me to what I did in counseling yesterday morning and I would like to share because I feel like it like it is a great building block for moving forward.
Background for yesterday’s session: Still NC with the OM but I can’t get him out of my head. I am constantly feeling guilt-ridden because I can’t stop thinking about this person. Nights are the worst when I am lying down next to my H! Currently I am working on directing my thought process by picturing a stop sign every time I think about this person. I guess it works a bit. I just keep telling myself that I have to remain patient because time will help these thoughts/feelings fade away. I told my MC all of this so she decided we needed to do a little activity where I wrote down what I would I would be losing versus gaining if I stopped thinking about the OM versus if I didn't stop about the OM, plus we wrote down any red flags (negative traits) I noticed about the OM.
It went kind of like this: What would I be gaining if over time I were able to stop thinking about the OM:
1. Peace of mind because I would know whatever happens that I did it the right way and with a clear head… (Not in a fog due to the OM).
2. Possible R with H.
3. Personal integrity and strength
4. No guilt or confusion.
What would I be losing if over time I were able to stop thinking about the OM:
1. Other than the hope or feelings that there is someone out there that may actually be my “soul mate” which the probability of that is most likely zilch, than I can honestly say that I wouldn’t be losing anything by not thinking about this person.
Red flags/negative traits: 1. He takes several different upper/downer medications for depression which goes in hand with seeing an IC once a week. Uppers in the morning, followed by sine type of anti-anxiety or downers after lunch, and sleeping pills at night. (Deep issues there!)
2. He uses marijuana daily for medical reasons.
3. He is bad at managing money.
4. He continued an intimate relationship with a married woman while acknowledging that it is morally wrong.
5. He lets people walk all over him without care.
Sure sounds like a downgrade after that activity!!!!!!! :scratchhead:
Of course this activity helped me to think about this person at that moment, but overall I think it was useful to show me what I really would not be missing by NC with this person.
So I guess why it was so difficult for me to say if it was an upgrade or downgrade is because the emotions and feelings that were involved with this other person did not happen because of those obvious traits. Hence the word EA, the affair was very mental and emotional. An addiction that I couldn’t kick is pretty much the only way I can explain it. Physical appearance didn’t really play a huge part either because he is clearly not as good looking as my H in anyway. It’s just that when I looked at this person, I felt like I was looking very deeply… more deeply than I have ever experienced. When people on here talk about the chemicals involved in an EA and PA than it makes sense as to why I felt like I was looking so “deeply” I guess…. If that makes any sense.
It blows my mind to think that everything involved in affair can really just boil down to chemicals and your mind tricking you.
How incredible harsh.
So as for my H and I we are just taking baby steps. I don’t know what is going to happen (R or D) in the end but I have hope that with time my feelings will change and my thoughts will only be consumed by my H.
I understand that this forum is primarily for betrayed spouses and I definitely felt that when I first posted my story here about a week ago (under Stephanie Anne…. changed username for specific reasons) by the intense; sometimes harsh comments although very deserved…. So I thank you for taking your time to read and respond. I have to say that I did get some very intriguing and helpful advice that I am very thankful for as well.
If you would like the background of my situation I am including the link to my 1st post under this username which I wrote after my 1st post under Stephanie Anne. There isn’t a whole lot of detail about the affair which I had in the previous (deleted) post… nevertheless I feel like it expresses pretty well what is going on.
I guess this post is more of a “just thinking” post rather than a question; however I welcome advice/opinions/any help you may be able to send my way….. Considering that I am still working very diligently to not think about the OM and to work on myself and my marriage.
Thanks CantSitStill. So it was a combo of not having a response from the OM plus the reality hitting you when speaking about D with the lawyer that prompted the anxiety, and having your H provide comfort showed how much he loved you, which helped tip things in his favor.
My wife has had a couple non-emotional PAs with random people and now this real EA with a coworker (all of which was revealed to me in a matter of days). The fact that I still wanted to work things out made her realize how much more I loved her than she ever knew (the reason we ran into trouble was because I wasn't good at showing my affection and love for her, as I am fairly reserved and unemotional). However, we haven't quite gotten to the reality of D yet, as we haven't spoken to lawyers and made any filings, so maybe she hasn't reached that stage of realization yet...
gear, you are much like me or what I was. I was very logical, methodical, etc. Part of what I did after R was to add some qualities that my wife thought I possessed but really didn't. I was 50% responsible for the problems in the marriage and I set out to make sure I took care of my issues. Think about it this way. You didn't always know how to use a cell phone. You can add personality traits without changing your core personality.
I refused to believe that Calvin really loved me. I thought he loves the wife he wants me to be instead of the person that I am. I found out the day he took me home that he really does love me. Posted via Mobile Device
I'm getting the distinct feeling that many of the negative and positive qualities you listed are "Nice Guy" qualities. A lot probably stems from being raised by alcoholic parents. Can someone else chime in on this. Its been a while since I read No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Hunger how are things going? Have you found your passion for your hubby yet? Do you know what's holding you back? I know you talked about having your guard up..I did the same thing and also as you struggled with affection because didn't get it from my parents but are you seeing how much your husband loves you? You haven't gotten back the "in love" feeling for him yet? It's been a while now. Know that I'm not judging you, I had the same problem. Posted via Mobile Device
Hello Cantsitstill.... I always like hearing from you. Sorry it took me so long to get back.
I wouldn’t say I have found my passion for my hubby yet, but there are a few positive things that have happened since last time I posted. One; I had a very negative dream about the OM… in the dream we met somewhere and I did not find him attractive at all.. In fact I was thinking about my hubby the entire time and ended up leaving before we could talk much and that is about all I remember. I shared this with my counselor and saw this as a very positive thing because I took it as in a way closing the door on the OM unconsciously. Second: I also feel happier for the future knowing that I continue to not contact the OM and think positively about moving forward. About a week ago I was thinking negative all the time and didn’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. I can see a glimmer of light….. a chance that there may be a reconciliation if I continue what I am doing. My Husband also seems to be getting stronger.
On the other hand I feel like I still have a wall up that I somehow created. The “in love” feelings are not here yet and I don’t feel the need for affection or the want to give him affection, but I am doing the motions anyways. My counselor suggested I try and do all of the motions I would have done in the past and hopefully my feelings will follow. I definitely see how much my husband loves me and I am trying ot focus on that. Thank you for checking on me.
Your husband. Many of the qualities you attribute to him are straight from the book if memory serves. That would explain much of his behavior and potentially why you started feeling disconnected before your affair. Its also something that can be corrected so the things you love/loved about him remain and the things that might have driven you apart can be worked on.
I like you tried to break it off with the OM and he said ok but it was me that kept texting him after a couple days.. I would tell him that Calvin's treating me alot better and we are going to marriage counseling so OM was fine with it but I got addicted somehow and missed his texts. It was a crazy cycle but I have not talked to him and do not have any desire to since February 1st. But for me I hate the OM because I feel he messed my head all up. As for Calvin it was like a miracle how suddenly I fell back in love with him. I hope the same for you..that all of a sudden u will see how much you love your hubby. Things have really changes for us, we give eachother tons of attention. It's kinda like starting all over again. Posted via Mobile Device
I understand the vicious cycle of contact the OM. I fell off the wagon 3 times. I would do great with no contact for a few days and then the urges would come or my husband and I would get in a huge fight and bam I was running to the OM. Just like you would any addiction. The times that you are in crisis you turn to the addiction. Very cruel circle. Glad I have been out for a while.
I hope our story ends up like yours. I would love to fall in love with my husband all over again. We are just spending as much time together in the evenings and on the weekends to try and re-bond. He has been changing a lot as well. He seems to want to do all of my interests now and wants to communicate about everything. He thinks what I did was his fault which of course it wasn't... so he thinks he needs to change everything. I am okay with little changes every here and there to better our relationship..... i just want him to not forget about himself and what makes him happy.
Just because he was a nice guy doesn't mean he deserved this. You should be motivated to repair the damage you did. If your husband decided to break it off your feelings fir him would change. But it will be too late. Don't mistake his kindness for weakness. I sense that you feel as though this is all your decision. If you decide to work it out all is not forgotten. This could raise its ugly head years down the road. That is how much this affected him you changed his life forever and you don't realize it. Do you resent him for his lack of sexual experience? Do you wish he was your first and only? Does he not initiate because he feels inadequate due to your past? He must feel stupid asking questions. You could have molded him into your own sexual god by teaching him how to please you. But you put all that effort into having the sex he is dreaming of with another man repeatedly. God only knows what is going through his head when he is alone with his thoughts. I don't want to hear you told him because I know you can think of something to get what you want out if him. Good luck to you this is going to be a long road. Posted via Mobile Device
Something very serious came up last night and I don’t know what to do:
Before I continue I will get you a little background of the addiction. When I met my husband he was highly addicted to painkillers of all sorts because his doctor was prescribing them to him like candy after a very serious back surgery. For an entire year his doctor refilled these strong painkillers until I guess he realized enough was enough and decided to just cut him off suddenly. My husband got into some deep trouble because he forged a prescription from a lower dose to a higher dosage and was caught immediately. This is the first trouble my husband has ever gotten into so he did a whole year of extensive drug court to make sure nothing appeared on his record which he ended up completing. The withdraws from getting off these drugs were crazy! My husband was on the couch for about 2 weeks with cold sweats and anxiety. I was there for him throughout the entire ordeal to comfort and just be there. After drug court was over I began asking him question about the addiction because I was interested. This is when I found out that our relationship started with lies and deceit. For an entire year he did everything he could do to hide this addiction from me and when I was suspicious of his behavior he would lie. I felt like everything was over till about a year before our wedding and a year after drug court when the addiction surfaced again this time it was uglier. He found out a good friend was taking painkillers so he began hanging out with this friend constantly and somehow found a connection on where to purchase them. The lying and deceiving started all over again and this time he was smoking pills instead of swallowing them. I don’t even know how you do this but you can. I eventually got suspicious and found hard evidence which I confronted him with. He continued to lie so I left for 3 days straight and stayed at a girlfriend’s house with no contact. He finally confessed and I came home. That was the last I saw of this until last night………..
The last 2 weeks I have been noticing some very odd behavior from my husband that reminded me of when he relapsed the last time. He has been going to the bathroom constantly; probably 5-6 times a night and he blames it on constipation from the anti-anxiety pills the doctor prescribed him. The other strange behavior is the sudden crazy energy he has had lately and how his mood has changed so drastically from sad all the time to now almost happy… at first I just figured he was getting stronger every day. So last night after dinner he excused himself to the restroom. I knelt by the bathroom door and listen for about 5-10 minutes. I heard constant inhaling and something that sounded like plastic or foil that he kept messing with. I knew he was up to no good. I waited for him to get out of the bathroom and confronted him immediately. It took about an hour to get it out of him and actually didn’t tell me the truth until I found some drug paraphernalia hidden in the bathroom. He said that he tried to smoke the anti-anxiety pills that was prescribed to him and that this was the first time he did it and nothing happen. I hate to say this but I don’t believe him because he has been acting different for at least a week if not longer. I don’t really believe that it was just the anti-anxiety pills either but maybe. I am just very worried about him because I feel like I caused this. :/ Also, all we have been talking about in counseling is no more lies and deceit and now he is doing the lying and deceiving.
Just a thought...u resent him so much maybe for the drug use that u cant allow youself to love and trust him?? Possible, also u are probably right, he may have slipped back into the drugs..Your fault? no its an excuse for him to use again. Posted via Mobile Device
One thing you have GOT to realize--say this to yourself about 100 times a day:
You can not change him or "make" him do or not do anything.
You can not "make" your husband lie to you or tell you the truth, and you can not "make" your husband want to quit the drugs or "make" him take them.
The absolutely ONLY person you can change is YOU--you yourself. If he is going to change and stop himself from taking these drugs, he is going to have to do it from within himself and want it so bad that when he gets the urges (like when you had urges to call OM) that he'll resist on his own. Until HE wants it, he'll continue to agree with you to your face, and behind your back he'll sneak and lie and hide what he wants to do: his drugs.
Since you can not change him, let's focus on you and what you can change about you that helps him continue doing drugs. For example, let's say that you decide to sit down with him and say "I have made a commitment to you and I choose to honor it, but I will not have a partner in my life who is sneaking behind my back, doing drugs, and lying to my face about it. At this time I have reasonable reason to believe you are in your addiction again, and I will not accept the blame for your choices. I know I can't control you, so I'm going to make some requests. I request that we make a doctor appointment that we go to together, and have a blood test done to indicate what EXACTLY is in your bloodstream and to have a doctor tell us together what options there are for treatment. I request that from now on, all doors to all rooms stay open, including the bathroom. Yes it's embarrassing but we are intimate and it is the cost of choosing to hide things from me while going to the bathroom. I'm going to request that we talk to the counselor ASAP and be honest with what has been transpiring (namely the lying about doing drugs) so that the counselor can actually give us the help and advice we need."
See the part of YOU that you change to help this situation, is the part of you that helps him cover up his drug use....the part that cleans up his messes after he does something stupid when he's high...the part that "explains" why he had to do it or makes up excuses for him....the part that says that if you love him you'll keep his secret so his dirty laundry isn't aired in public. That part of you is actually HELPING HIM keep doing it. So I would recommend the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. This book is for YOU, Hunger. Start there and keep on track with the way you've been working on ending the affair and rebuilding love for your husband. But bear in mind that it is going to be "difficult to impossible" to build love for him when he is lying to you, and building trust actually will be impossible! In order for the two of you to rebuild trust, you are BOTH going to have to stop covering things up from each other, and no matter how much it hurts or scares you--be OPEN and be HONEST.
Hunger, the book AC is suggesting is excellent. I've read it. You should add it to your library and read it when you can (I know you're reading other books as well).
I know huh? I've always been a big reader. I read constantly. I always have a book in my hands. The one I'm reading now is Fire In The Belly by Sam Keen.
BTW, don't look at all this as huge mountains to climb. This is all a good thing. You get all the dirty laundry out on the table and you clean it all up so your new marriage starts off fresh and with lots of room for love.
may I add, when you reconcile it will be like a new marriage too but that's the good thing..you both will have your boundaries and more respect for eachother an.d stop neglecting eachother Posted via Mobile Device
i would focus on your problems. you have a lot of them. since you wrote ecerything he could fix about himself why don't you write ten things that suck about you. focus on those. i would need to self medicate myself too. i am proud he kicked this horrible habit years ago, too bad these events threw all that away too. help him, don't kick him. i said it earlier, he may be nice but he does have a breaking point and if he reaches that point, it will be too late for you my dear. i personally think that would be best for him but what do i know. sorry for the interuption, now let the love fest continue.
You could have molded him into your own sexual god by teaching him how to please you. But you put all that effort into having the sex he is dreaming of with another man repeatedly. .
i would focus on your problems. you have a lot of them. since you wrote ecerything he could fix about himself why don't you write ten things that suck about you. focus on those. i would need to self medicate myself too. i am proud he kicked this horrible habit years ago, too bad these events threw all that away too. help him, don't kick him. i said it earlier, he may be nice but he does have a breaking point and if he reaches that point, it will be too late for you my dear. i personally think that would be best for him but what do i know. sorry for the interuption, now let the love fest continue.
I am not focusing on his problems in any way. I just posted it because it happened last night and I am very worried for his sake. All I have been doing is focusing on my problems and what I did to my husband....this is why I am here trying to get all the advice I can get to make things right. There is no kicking my husband involved here… just concern.
Doesn't matter that the drug use was a while ago, you may have been holding in that resentment for a long time and not really realised it. Also you may still be in the fog which could be blocking your mind from truly even seeing your own faults. I know I struggled with that. I honestly felt like Calvin was the one with all the faults and not me...each day I'm seeing more and more how I should've done many things differently through our marriage. Posted via Mobile Device
Yeah... I dont think the fog is holding me back from seeing my own fault cause trust me I can clearly see them. Counseling has helped me to recognize so much I have done wrong in our relationship. The biggest fault was that I had a hard time sticking up for myself when my interests or concerns were invalidated. I am working on that.
We moved in together after 2 weeks because my lease was up and I couldn’t stand having a roommate and he was living with his Dad for a few weeks to help him recover from heart surgery. He was the first man I have ever lived with and I guess it just seemed like the right thing to do at the time (no hesitation) so we did it. My attraction to my husband is different than the way I have been attracted to other men in past relationships. What attracted me the most to my husband is that he is very protective and attentive towards me. He is also very affectionate which I have always liked.
You are getting plenty of good advice, so I won't belabor that, but I did want to note that I suspect you are wrong in not having passion for your husband at some point. People without passion for their significant other don't often move in together after two weeks. It may not have been a smart move but I think there was some passion there.
Maybe I just don't remember. :/ I know that our move was convenient for the both of us because of our living situations at the time. Just seemed the right thing to do at the moment. My husband tells me that we had sex all the time in the beginning and it was very passionate, but I don't remember. :/ I wonder if it is because he felt differently than I do or if I just have a CRAPPY memory.
It's good that you're not just giving up. With me the only way I can explain how I fell back in love with hubby was sorta like an instant miracle..I prayed alot tho, still do. Was literally crying for help and somehow Calvin felt it at work and stopped everything he was doing and texted me with "what's wrong" while I was staying at my sisters. Somehow after that text we talked and I instantly fell right back in love..soo bizarre but the total truth Posted via Mobile Device
Skip 76, I do not need to explain myself to you. After reading several of your posts in other blogs, it is clear that you have a chip on your shoulder. I could list probably more negative traits within myself than positive if I wanted to. That is not what was asked from the person with the questions that I answered. Honestly, I would have done it for him, but I will not do it because you demand me to.
I remember when we were in marriage counseling (during my EA) which I did not confess yet. I was asked my faults and couldn't come up with a thing so the counselor had Calvin write my faults. Man I was so in the fog that I still felt everything was his fault..weird the games your own mind plays when you're in the middle of an affair. Tomorrow is our first counseling session with a totally new counselor. Wish us luck that she can help us with all of the aftermath. The first session is always nervewracking. Posted via Mobile Device
So the beginning of this post sounds like a new thread because I was going to start one, but figured I might as well continue this one.
So I have posted in the past few weeks about my infidelity and marriage and now here we are down to a final decision. I guess the reason why I am posting now is because I don’t know what to do or think. A little background is that I had an emotional affair which turned physical one time and now I am left to pick up all of the pieces I have broken. The problem is that although I am going about doing some things the right way I tend to fault on other things. I got into MC with my husband, IC for myself, and I have been reading TONS of books on the problem at hand, and training for a marathon to relieve my stress in a healthy manner. What I have faulted on his continuing an EA with this other man. I was so proud of myself for going a week and one time 2 weeks with no contact; and I always fault. I don’t carry a romantic conversation with this man and I don’t see him; I just have a very hard time not wanting to talk to this person just in general. I know it sounds sick but I give him great advice on life events he is going through and I as well. The times I was doing well by not talking to this other man I still felt the same about my husband, but I didn’t have the torn feeling of holding 2 relationships. Something would trigger me and I would make contact.
Anyways…… the torment of trying to feel for my husband while living comfortably in our home and knowing that at times I was talking to this other man was unbearable and VERY unfair and disrespectful to my husband so I made myself leave. I obviously wasn’t strong enough or not caring enough to end that relationship to work on my marriage so I couldn’t keep torturing my husband. My husband also turned to drugs (the bad bad kind) to cope so I felt like both of us were doing the wrong things and not going anywhere. (Before I continue I just have to say that I am ready for harsh comments and expect the worst but I really just need to get out what has been going on.) So I left and I have been at my dad’s house right down the street for 3 nights. The first day I was gone I panicked because I feel like there is no turning back… I feel like our marriage is so deep in the crapper because of what I have done and because of the dysfunctional ways of coping and communicating that I don’t see anything getting better even if we do try the right way. So what I mean by panicked is I went online to washingtondivorceonline and I filed and paid the filing fee. (yes you can do this all online).. So yeah, that is all I did. Before filling out any documents regarding assets/property or whatever I just logged off and had a melt down. I know doing that was very irrational and I should have consulted with our counselor before making such a drastic life change. I can’t explain what happened…. I just had been driving around sad all day thinking and got home and did that out of pure panic. I just felt like we weren’t going anywhere and I felt guilty everyday causing my husband to hurt because of the unknown. I know I have some growing up to do as well as him. I guess I just felt like if we are going to separate and see if things get better by doing the right things than we will get back together and so be it…. However if we don’t after separating for a bit than we will have to file for divorce and in a way be wasting time with the separation. I don’t know. I know this is somewhat ridiculous reasoning, but with a little logic I guess. :/….. I am just very confused and wish I could know what will be. I just felt like I HAD to do something because I have been on the fence for 2 months. I now feel like I should have just stayed at where I was with us just giving each other space and time to figure things out but of course my sporadic stupid self had to proceed with more destructiveness. I am not really as cold-hearted as I may seem. Just sad and confused every day.
Sooo, for the last 3 nights while staying at my dad’s house I have just done everything to wear myself out so that I can sleep at night. I ran 8 miles the first night, 6 the next, and biked 10 miles last night. I feel like all I can do right now is focus on me because obviously there is SOMETHING that is missing with me. By doing this it helps to get that sickly gut feeling out of my stomach and it helps me to focus and think about the situation at hand. I want my husband to be happy and he can’t be happy being with me or without me at this point. I make him miserable being at home; yet he is miserable when I am away as well. I guess besides just venting… I feel like I need to know if what I am doing is completely wrong. :/ I have this constant anxiety feeling deep in my gut but I can’t tell if it is because what I am doing is wrong, if it’s my guilt from what I have caused and continued to cause, or the fear of the unknown. I know nobody can tell me what I am feeling, but I guess some advice for my husband or I would help. He doesn’t take me seriously because of all of the hope he has, but I have very little hope because of the way we have dealt with everything. Lately at night in bed alone I have found myself thinking of good times and missing the comfort level of us just being us and I want to call him and comfort him, but I know I can’t do that right now because I would be creating more hope that I am not sure I should be giving at this point. I don’t want to continue to be selfish by relieving my guilt by making sure he is okay. The only thing is that he wants to call me 24-7 and gets upset if I don’t call him but I feel like in a way it is wrong to call him as much as I think about him right now. I feel like we both need to work on things and see what happens from there.
I could keep going on and on but I feel like I am repeating myself. Besides doing what I did when I panicked, is it wrong to want space/separation as long as both continues to do the wrong things while “working” on our marriage?
I know I dont deserve any more advice but any help would be greatly appreciated.
So you filed for divorce correct? If so well then you have finally made your choice. You made your decision and that's good, you are being honest with yourself instead of fense sitting. I hate to say this but I knew you were gonna land up talking to the OM..just had that feeling. It is what it is. It's hard yes but you tried and were getting nowhere. Best of luck to you and prayers for your poor husband. You gotta agree with me that he doesn't deserve this. It's a horrible situation but looks like it's inevitable. Posted via Mobile Device
I do agree with you. It is a VERY horrible situation. I don't know how to feel. The filing online was very irrational and I just did it because of the fence sitting. We talked about it and we are not going to move forward with anything until we continue with being separated and see how we feel then. :/
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