I was reading through my first post. I was so upset that I didn't even mention that back in November when I first discovered and he confessed that he was talking to another woman that I had smelled strong perfume on his shirt. He shrugged it off that one of the ladies at work hugged him that day. So, I actually believed him then found out about the first woman. So, about a week before our trip I was doing laundry and smelled that same perfume and saw makeup on his shirt (cliche-I know) it was like she hugged him and the makeup wore off. Anyways. I called him up about it and he was really nice at first, promised that he didn't know what I was talking about promised that nothing was happening. I said okay and proceeded to plan our lunch (we were having lunch that day) well he continued to go on and on and on about me making a big deal, etc. Even after I said I believed him. That is what through me into this whatever you call it, then the phone call the day of our trip and now today. I'm an idiot. I don't even recognize this guy that I have been with for 18 years. I feel like a stupid little girl. I do thank each and everyone one of you for posting your advice and opinions, though. Thank you.
Since I have done this do you have any additional advice for me? Just sit still and wait for him to calm down?
Don`t be so hard on your self.
I`m one for getting ironclad foolproof objective evidence before even mentioning it but in reality the only level of evidence you need to meet is that with which you are satisfied.
Honestly, I agree with you that the way he`s acting is more than enough.
Here`s my advice, set firm boundaries and a solid consequence if he fails to meet those boundaries.
This is very hard especially since you want to reconcile.
You effectively have to be willing to destroy the marriage to save it.
Give him your boundaries, in your case that`d be ..
-Access/passwords to all modes of communication now and forever.
-Copy of his recent call logs from your service provider
Right now he`s cleaning up his phone, e-mail, & Facebook because he`s trying to cover his ass for when he can no longer hold you off with his bluster so you`ll get nothing from these things when he does give them to you.
It`s the cell service providers call logs you want because he cannot fake or forge them.
They are cold hard truth and he is going to balk at giving them to you.
Your consequence of course is divorce.
He knows you want to keep him so he`s not going to believe you`ll divorce him.
For this reason I`d have divorce papers drawn up to hand him when he refuses your boundaries.
if you have no money for a lawyer I`d get online and download a divorce packet specific to your state and fill it out to hand him.
This is extreme and it`s an all or nothing roll of the dice but any other action leaves you in limbo for god knows how long and no one needs that emotional abuse.
Once you give him these boundaries and consequences you cannot back down or you`ll see that little smile run across his face again as he realizes he has beaten you.
He is going to calm down. His behavior isn't consistent with innocence.
I hope TAM vets step in to help you, they are more expert than I.
Just make full transparency a condition of coming back. Say, show me this month's phone bill on the computer from our wireless carrier (making sure he doesn't doctor the bill).
You should see one or two #'s jump out. He might be using company phones that aren't assigned by name and could use that to trick you. But otherwise you should see a very suspicious calling pattern; my WS and his AP would call and text all hours. Posted via Mobile Device
No. He wants me to. I am not. I don't want my dad to worry right now. I think he is going to sleep in the car. It is not a pay week and therefore he doesn't have the money to get a hotel room. If it is the same woman as before, which I think it is, he cannot stay with her because she is also in a relationship. That is all I know of her oh and that whomever she works for does a lot of business at his work (he works at a college) and that is why he wouldn't tell me who she was. Didn't want the whole school finding out or losing that business-which I didn't argue about since he is the only one working at the moment and we need to provide for our kids. I just don't know what to do about the kids. I guess I can say he is working out of town or something for now. Sorry. That was more of an answer than you asked for.
I was about to say that it's likely the same person.
Frankly if it's someone different you have a bigger problem, ie a serial cheater.
You may have to bite the bullet and cost him the work. If it were me I'd need more proof first, but you don't seem to have a way.
Stay with the house as others have said, do not abandon the house whatever you do. Posted via Mobile Device
There is no advise we can give if you continue to engage with him in your current mindset , being prepared to walk away and lose him puts you in a position of strength. I you think he will out of the goodness of his heart step up and be the man you married , your wrong . Appearing needy and desperate helps him manipulate you.
Get a VAR and hide it in his car.
Stop talking to him about his affair , he does give a dam about you and will continue regardless.
Go into a hard 180, not a selective 180. A full blown 180.
Since you have confronted him so many times you may as well tell his parents and yours he is in an affair.
Go to a lawyer and start preparing for a D. I am sure you think this is extreme , you have no option as your husband is no longer married to you.
Over time you will find out who the OW is and when you do exposure will be your next step.
If friends ask what is happening, tell the truth "he is having an affair" . When he gets angry or stomps around smile. Don't try to argue it out with him or produce evidence . If he calls you limit conversations to the children , learn to be direct and put the phone down if he talks about anything else. This is the part most wives fail on; they let the conversation change from the kids or the financials in the hope he is going to say something nice , do not fool yourself.
Ultimately if you don't get hard evidence a polygraph is the last resort. I do not suggest you play this card yet.
I agree with all the advice above. You really really do need to accept your marriage is over, whether u like it or not, whether u want it to be or not. In doing this you will then be in a position of strength. Do not be fooled into thinking that by doing this you will push him away. By NOT standing strong...that will push him away. It gives him the free reign to continue as he likes. By standing strong, that will force him back down to earth with a thump. He will then have to make the decision as to whether he wants marriage with you or future plans with the other woman. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE THE OTHER WOMAN IN YOUR MARRIAGE! Don't let him make you that.
As an end note, I am just like you, I cannot hide a problem if there is something on ny mind. You really do have to sit tight if you want more evidence. If what you have now is enough for you (and the affair is definitely there, written all over the wall), then address it right away...DO NOT WAIVER. The only problem is, if you don't have more evidence then he can easily water down the details of the affair, the length if time of it and so on. Hard evidence will give you a stronger case in that he will not be able to give you half truths/no truths so easily.
Well, here I am again. He slept in the truck last night and upstairs all day. I didn't talk to him except a few minutes ago. It's too hard having him in the house. I laid it out again. Told him that I would be able to trust him if he were to be upfront with me, give me all passwords and access to all mobile communications (phone, computer, email, etc). He said the one thing that I was completely wrong about was the perfume. So, I asked him what I was right about. Nothing of course. There is nothing going on. It doesn't matter because I wouldn't believe him anyways- he was trying to work on it by showing me love and attention (which he was but he was on the phone yesterday with the mystery person). He said if I were to admit that I was wrong and believe him that our problems would be over (seriously?). So, I laid it out again. Told him an innocent person would be annoyed but would hand over the things I am asking for. Told him how easy that was- I mean that is easy! 18 years he wants to throw away because he said I will be waiting a very long time because he is not going to hand it over. So, I said that I guess it's done. He said I guess so. This is all very calm conversation, too. However, he has no money right now and no where to go. He said he will stay as long as he needs to because he has as much right to this house as I do. This will make it very difficult for me. I am not leaving. This is my house and my kids' house. Thanks again you all for your posts. I am probably making some of you crazy with my actions. I am just going crazy. I guess it's over because he doesn't want to hand over any access to his things. That's too bad. Such a waste. I do still wonder what it is that I am right about since he said the one thing I am wrong about is the perfume. I guess that means I am right about everything else.
Well, here I am again. He slept in the truck last night and upstairs all day. I didn't talk to him except a few minutes ago. It's too hard having him in the house. I laid it out again. Told him that I would be able to trust him if he were to be upfront with me, give me all passwords and access to all mobile communications (phone, computer, email, etc). He said the one thing that I was completely wrong about was the perfume. So, I asked him what I was right about. Nothing of course. There is nothing going on. It doesn't matter because I wouldn't believe him anyways- he was trying to work on it by showing me love and attention (which he was but he was on the phone yesterday with the mystery person). He said if I were to admit that I was wrong and believe him that our problems would be over (seriously?). So, I laid it out again. Told him an innocent person would be annoyed but would hand over the things I am asking for. Told him how easy that was- I mean that is easy! 18 years he wants to throw away because he said I will be waiting a very long time because he is not going to hand it over. So, I said that I guess it's done. He said I guess so. This is all very calm conversation, too. However, he has no money right now and no where to go. He said he will stay as long as he needs to because he has as much right to this house as I do. This will make it very difficult for me. I am not leaving. This is my house and my kids' house. Thanks again you all for your posts. I am probably making some of you crazy with my actions. I am just going crazy. I guess it's over because he doesn't want to hand over any access to his things. That's too bad. Such a waste. I do still wonder what it is that I am right about since he said the one thing I am wrong about is the perfume. I guess that means I am right about everything else.
There was another poster a while ago who's story was almost identical to yours. They were told that all the cheating signs were there. They didn't want to believe it. They didn't push the issue and 3 months later they came back and told everyone that the advice they received was indeed correct.
When I first came on TAM I read a lot of people advising posters to follow their gut. I thought that advice was ridiculous because your gut can be wrong. You know what I eventually figured out? In cases of infidelity your gut is almost never wrong. You know what it is you are right about. So does he. Lets see if he changes his tune when he is served divorce papers. The shock to his system might just wake him up and show him the real consequences to his actions.
It seems like he is playing a bit of high stakes relationship poker with you. By standing firm to his claims he is trying to make it seem this is all in your head and your fault for not being trust worthy. Clever, maybe, but wrong. Try to imagine a scenerio where your spouse is suspicious about a potential affair when in fact you are innocent. Your spouse then confronts you and asks you for your phone records etc, for proof that nothing is going on. How would you react? I'll tell you how I would, and every other wrongly-suspected LS would. We would probably laugh it off, think it's cute that their spouse is so jealous, or at worst, be a little offended or annoyed that we are being accussed. Either case we would happily hand over the necessary info to reassure our spouse that we are not cheating. I know if my spouse suspected something I would laugh it off and just take it as a sign my wife cares about me and our marriage. Then I would reassure her because I love her and don't her to feel this (misguided) anxiety. My point is to remind you that your H is showing all the signs of gaslighting and trying to turn the phsycological games on you in order to remind yourself when he does that you are in fact being absolutely correct in your assessment.
I'll let the TAM vets give you the best advice, but it seems he isn't done with you or the marriage, hasn't checked out completely, and is more just trying to cake eat (if he was totally done with you then why bother trying to be nice and reassure you etc?). You might want to focus on collecting hard evidence via VARs now, instead of trying to get it out of him. Put some VARs in places where he might talk (car, house etc) and DONT talk to him about the affair anymore. Get some hard evidence before you confront him again. Only then, when he can't play mind games on you, you'll see a complete change in the entire dynamics etc...
It seems like he is playing a bit of high stakes relationship poker with you. By standing firm to his claims he is trying to make it seem this is all in your head and your fault for not being trust worthy. Clever, maybe, but wrong. Try to imagine a scenerio where your spouse is suspicious about a potential affair when in fact you are innocent. Your spouse then confronts you and asks you for your phone records etc, for proof that nothing is going on. How would you react? I'll tell you how I would, and every other wrongly-suspected LS would. We would probably laugh it off, think it's cute that their spouse is so jealous, or at worst, be a little offended or annoyed that we are being accussed. Either case we would happily hand over the necessary info to reassure our spouse that we are not cheating. I know if my spouse suspected something I would laugh it off and just take it as a sign my wife cares about me and our marriage. Then I would reassure her because I love her and don't her to feel this (misguided) anxiety. My point is to remind you that your H is showing all the signs of gaslighting and trying to turn the phsycological games on you in order to remind yourself when he does that you are in fact being absolutely correct in your assessment.
I'll let the TAM vets give you the best advice, but it seems he isn't done with you or the marriage, hasn't checked out completely, and is more just trying to cake eat (if he was totally done with you then why bother trying to be nice and reassure you etc?). You might want to focus on collecting hard evidence via VARs now, instead of trying to get it out of him. Put some VARs in places where he might talk (car, house etc) and DONT talk to him about the affair anymore. Get some hard evidence before you confront him again. Only then, when he can't play mind games on you, you'll see a complete change in the entire dynamics etc...
I think you summed it up perfectly. I agree with everything you said.
Broken bloke and Beowulf you are so right. I know this. I'm just in a cloud of confusion and utter shock. I will take the advice that everyone has given and put it to use. Thank you. Posted via Mobile Device
Stand firm. No innocent spouse would take this stance.
I lol'd about the perfume. My WS and the AP would cling to parts I 'got wrong.' Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.
You will prob have to file for divorce. You can always delay or take it back. But he needs to see you're not playing the games of a big baby that he's being. His betrayal and immorality are no silly joke to be ignored.
Just keep looking for ways to uncover evidence. Telling her fam is a huge way to knock the fantasy down. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Caught and still denying... 
