I can see your point and am taking it on board. Sometimes being strong is right, sometimes being gentle is right, and frankly I have no idea which this is. But gentle hasn't worked.
Yes, I'm seeing an individual counselor, and having some good success with that.
None of this **** is easy in any way shape or form. Believe me, I understand what you are feeling right now, as do most (not all) of the responders to your thread. No one wants to see your relationship fail, reading your line about an 18 year marriage with kids made my eyes well up. Seeing you talk about your wife with love in your heart is even harder, because some of us see how deep in the fog she is, and how hard things will be for you. Some of the advice I got early on was so alien to me that I wanted to push it as far away as I could, but in the end, it was doing the hard thing (working really hard to let go) that gave me a foothold and helped my Partner reach out to me for help. Once that happens, the really hard work starts. Good Luck man, feel free to send a PM, I'm around.
I re-read what Warlock wrote, perhaps you just interpreted it in a particular way, let me translate:
You are trying to be supportive toward a person who violated the stated boundaries of your relationship and the implied terms of your temporary separation. Your support seems to include waiting for your wife to be finished with her affair and then moving forward. You have not, thus far, stated what the consequences of this breach of boundaries will be. If there are no consequences, then in a few years, when your wife again decides to be single for a while, she will know you will wait until she is done, and then reconcile. She will have no reason to respect the boundaries of the relationship, because when she disrespected them last, she got to have some fun, and then got to go back to her comfortable life with you.
There are clear consequences to the dysfunctional behaviors of the DS's in the successful post-affair relationships. The DS has to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that if they do it again, the LS will leave, taking all the history, comfort, safety, and love they offer with them. The only way to demonstrate to the DS that the LS is willing to do that, is by taking the steps to actually do that. Its counter intuitive at first, but makes sense later, trust me.
Well let's see. If what he said is true, then NO couple would EVER recover from an affair. I'm interested in alternative views, but not ones that fail a basic test of logic.
Don't argue the strawman, dude.
Just go and actually READ any of those reconciliation stories. It never happened due to a cuckold sitting out the affair in his corner. In all the cases the betrayed was actively killing the affair and giving the wayward some tough love. Yes, that includes filing for D.
Well let's see. If what he said is true, then NO couple would EVER recover from an affair. I'm interested in alternative views, but not ones that fail a basic test of logic.
No! You are incorrect.
Your wife is making it clear she has no interest in you, in recovery and reconcilliation, she desires other men, actively pursues them and puts herself out there to practically anyone who wants her. And she does this within 24 hours of you moving out (why did u move out? Get back in there and move her out (it was her who cheated wasn't it?) if she wanted out of the marriage and was willing to do what she did then YOU should NOT be making the sacrifices). When someone doesn't want you there is nothing more pathetic than them still pawing around your ankles like a lost puppy, especially when you keep kicking them in the teeth.
Getting tough with her is not throwing your marriage away OR giving up on it. Ditching her (even though she has ditched you already) is not about giving up. It is about protecting you, AND the marriage. It is sending a clear message that this behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE. Since when were affairs and dating sites acceptable things in a marriage?
By doing what you are doing, YOU are damaging the marriage by showing her she can do what she likes and you will be there still. You are enabling her to treat you like s*hit. And what about your children? YOU are damaging the marriage.
So...get tough and protect it. And protect you. And protect your children. If anything is going to make her stop and come back to you then getting tough and stop offering her your love to wipe her feet on will. When you have something regardless you take it for granted. When that thing goes you suddenly begin to appreciate it, miss it, kick yourself for taking it for granted, kick yourself for not appreciating it when you had it. And now it is gone! Devastation!
Sort it out! Wet blankets are unnattractive. So are doormats. So are pathetic men who will take any sh*t you throw at them. Be strong and not a needy puppy.
If you've bothered to read ANY of the successful R stories here, you would see that there are the four general requirements that are a must:
1. The WS ends contact forever with their affair partner. No contact means no contact means no contact.
2. The WS is truly remorseful for their actions, not just guilty for being caught.
3. The WS is completely and willingly transparent to their BS because they truly want to earn and rebuild the trust that they destroyed.
4. The WS and the BS is 100% to saving and reconciling the marriage.
The first three requirements are the WS doing the heavy lifting to save the marriage. The BS also has to work on themselves too by changing their behaviors that led to the state of the marriage before the affair and learn to forgive their WS. EVEN then, R is still difficult under the best of circumstances.
This is your situation:
Your wife had an affair and you separated. Within 24 hours she's looking to date and boldy tells you that she wants to date other men. Then she boldly tells you she wants to bang a few of them. You even suspect that she already has and has a new OM. Your WW saw separation as her free pass to live the single life, no matter what you think about her or what she has said in the past. The facts are irrefutable. Instead of trying to save her marriage, your WW simply went completely the other way.
What you are to her is the back up plan. The second stringer. That's all you are to her. In case her relationships fail, she knows you will take her back no matter what she does. You my friend, are a chump. You live in fear. There are many people here who have been married longer than you, including myself, who are willing to pull the trigger on D. I don't know about you, but I am NO ONE'S back up plan. What your WW is, is a classic cake eater. Coming from the saying, having their cake and eat it too. She wants the safety net of marriage, but continue to live the single life.
Your username exactly describes the phase that you're in: Desperation. When in this phase, you're willing to accept whatever crumbs your WW throws your way because you're desperate to save your marriage at any cost.
What you're doing in your desperation is the classic mistake most BSs make, and that is rug sweeping. You want to sweep all her actions under the rug and wait out her affairs.
The problem with rug sweeping is that all it does is build up resentment. You will resent the fact that she got to live the single life, bang other men, made you a cuckold, and in the end you took her back with no repercussions whatsoever.
Another classic mistake you're making is that you cannot let her go.
But hey, if you want to continue to be the back up plan, the second choice, then good luck with that. Now my arms hurting again from typing, so good luck.
I'm very sorry to hear what you are going through.
I am currently separated from my husband. Since separation I have filed for divorce.
It looks to me like your wife is trying to find herself again, albeit going the wrong way about it by trying to find solutions with other men. She can only do that by looking at herself and she will figure that out eventually. Soon after I separated from my husband he registered on a dating site too - that hurt badly. His reasoning for it was that he wanted to have something to 'look forward to'. Again, I believe it is best to look inside yourself first, otherwise the same problems will follow you in to your next relationship.
Something you wrote jumped out at me:-
"The problem is, she is so emotional, has so much anger over stuff that happened during the marriage (nothing extreme, no beatings, just the usual stuff most people mess up, emotional neglect, etc etc) that she is irrational."
I was on the receiving end of my husband's bad moods, verbal abuse and emotional neglect for years. I wouldn't underestimate the damage it can cause and shrug it off as 'the usual stuff'. May I suggest that you perhaps take a second look at her grievance towards you more seriously and take steps to work on that?
Hi desperateguy.
I was on the receiving end of my husband's bad moods, verbal abuse and emotional neglect for years. I wouldn't underestimate the damage it can cause and shrug it off as 'the usual stuff'. May I suggest that you perhaps take a second look at her grievance towards you more seriously and take steps to work on that?
Hi Jen.
Sorry you are going through a rough time.
I wasn't clear on that point for the sake of brevity. I absolutely 100% screwed up and hurt her, there is NO doubt about that and I fully own it.
She screwed up a LOT as well, but that doesn't excuse my behavior.
I've been doing a lot of work on myself since the separation. I'm a much better man for it. She's paid the price to put me through school. Whether she gets the benefit of it or me, remains to be seen.
I won't take her back unless she does some work on herself as well. There's a few issues which are deal breakers to me.
Thanks all for your advice. It might not seem like it, but I HAVE taken it on board. There's a lot of truth in here.
I knew it as some level but thinking about it more today, I have realised how much I am enabling her, and actually actively making her transition to divorce as easy for her as possible. She really does want her cake and to eat it to.
So I'm having a good hard think, and talk with a few wise trusted friends and my counsellor, to consider my next steps.
I re-read what Warlock wrote, perhaps you just interpreted it in a particular way, let me translate:
You are trying to be supportive toward a person who violated the stated boundaries of your relationship and the implied terms of your temporary separation. Your support seems to include waiting for your wife to be finished with her affair and then moving forward. You have not, thus far, stated what the consequences of this breach of boundaries will be. If there are no consequences, then in a few years, when your wife again decides to be single for a while, she will know you will wait until she is done, and then reconcile. She will have no reason to respect the boundaries of the relationship, because when she disrespected them last, she got to have some fun, and then got to go back to her comfortable life with you.
There are clear consequences to the dysfunctional behaviors of the DS's in the successful post-affair relationships. The DS has to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that if they do it again, the LS will leave, taking all the history, comfort, safety, and love they offer with them. The only way to demonstrate to the DS that the LS is willing to do that, is by taking the steps to actually do that. Its counter intuitive at first, but makes sense later, trust me.
Thanks for typing that out Paladin. That is what I meant
So I honestly don't get it. Why are most people telling me to move on? .
Instead of working on herself and trying to figure out how to get back with you, she chose to date other men and open her legs to some of them.
I think that's enough of a reason why you should move on.
Seperation was her lame excuse and laying ground work to end things with you in a softer way.
I've been doing a lot of work on myself since the separation. I'm a much better man for it. She's paid the price to put me through school. Whether she gets the benefit of it or me, remains to be seen.
I won't take her back unless she does some work on herself as well. There's a few issues which are deal breakers to me.
Hi desperateguy
Then you are doing all you can - as you say even if your relationship does not work out, you, your children and any future relationship will reap the benefits anyway.
No, I'm 100% sure there was no one lined up. I'm also quite sure, despite what everyone here says, that she didn't plan it. One of many reasons I believe that is that I initiated the separation.
Why are you fighting for the love of a woman who does not want you as her husband anymore? So what if you've been married for 18 years? You initiated the separation because you could no longer stand living with her so that in and of itself is very telling that she was deficient as a wife. Stop pining for a woman who no longer loves you nor wants you and is trying to replace you. Let go and move on wirh your life.
I really honestly believe it wasn't her plan. Call me delusional, but I don't think so, I know her, and I also know of stuff she said to others.
Everyone on this site thought that they knew their wayward spouse. When my wife moved out, I hardly recognized the sweet lovable woman that I married 19 years ago.
In her place was a cold and distant facsimile of her former self. A doppelganger, so to speak. A woman who willingly gave up her two kids, her dream home, and her pets.
So, while you think you might know your wife -- you really don't know this person. 24 hours of separation and she was already trolling dating sites for friends with benefits? This was planned on her part. She wanted some fresh meat. (Don't mean to be so graphic but I'm trying to get you out of your fog.)
By the way, it takes two to make a marriage. In your case, your wife has already told you that she does not want to reconcile. She's checked out. Gone.
If she does come back, it's only because you are her back up plan. And she'll be gone again in the not too distant future.
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Re: Is it an affair during separation? 
