lordmayhem

Only a Sith deals in absolutes young jedi.

With that said, everyone has their own personal line that they draw as a deal breaker, but we won't know until we come to that bridge. Long ago I thought any cheating and I'm done. Yet things and circumstance can change ones viewpoint. I've always said a PA is my deal breaker, but I really wont know unless I actually came up on it.

__________________
Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this
Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights
The Betrayed Spouse Script
Just Let Them Go

Thorburn

Cee Paul - How do you define forgiveness?

__________________
This kind of cosmic dumbassery occupies a temporal plane of ineptitude and lack of reason so profound a Zen master could spend a lifetime meditating upon its philosophical consequences.”

Cee Paul

To me granting forgiveness takes place when (a)whatever you did to me was not sooooo severe that it warrants a permanent departure from my life, and (b) I feel that you are sincerely sorry and never meant to do that in the first place. When you meet up to have sex with someone behind your spouse's back there are A LOT of steps involved in that act, and to me that is usually something that is very calculated and planned out which tells me that you fully MEANT to do it.

the guy

Abusing your wife takes alot of steps also, 1st it takes alot of drinking, coming home late,then you have to find an accuse to push her around after she make a great dinner.

After awhile the phsysical abuse gets calculated. I fully ment to hit my wife. so that were I *was* at so many years ago.

its been 20yrs but I have been forgiven, its a good feeling.

Now about my cheating wife........well it feels just as good to be forgiven as it is to forgive.

Thats my $0.02

Cee Paul

Even though abusing your wife physically is a very horrible thing as well it still ONLY involved you and your wife, and there was no third party thrown in there who was sharing body parts with her while the two of them snuck around together, while plotting against you so that the two of them don't get caught.

the guy

I can forgive that, but I'm wired different then most. LOL

Cee Paul

Well then you're a bigger man than me as far as cheating goes, because if I'm ever cheated on not only is our marriage over but I'm probably going to beat the hell out of the other guy(and at 6'3 and 248 lbs it's not gonna be pretty).

the guy

Brother, I have to fight alot of guys, probably as many bruises I but on my wife.

That, and I'm not built for prison.....jail ya, but prison is a very very bad place.

I still think that there is a degree an individual has when it come to forgiving adultory, Its clear to me just by all the different view on the awsome thread you started. Thank you for that.

Cee Paul

Ohhhhh I am well aware how nasty prison is or can be even though I have never been myself, and although I am a big guy I'm also too pretty and too civilized to ever spend any time in there.

Thorburn

Cee - Just to let you know my background. I come from a Christian tradition. I had theological training and served as a pastor, chaplain, and held other positions. I am not trying to force a view on you, just want you to understand what my world view is. In most Christian traditions forgiveness is mandatory. I am not saying that all Christians forgive but it is part of our tradition. It is in our holy scriptures, part of our creeds, and in our prayers.

If someone would ask me what forgiveness is I would say that it is an action that a person takes as an act of their will. Not forced but a willful act. And i would describe what it is not.

Forgiveness is not:
1. Forgetting what the person did to you.
2. Waiting for an apology.
3. Denying the wrong the person did to you.
4. It is not trusting.
5. Does not mean we do not seek out justice.
6. Is not reconsiliation. We do not have to accept the person back into our lives.
7. It is not about ceasing the pain the person caused us.
8. It is not a one time event.

Forgiveness allows us to give up on revenge, letting go, dropping resentment, and allows us to move forward. Forgiveness is about us. It does not leave the person off the hook for what they have done it is more like cutting the line with the person still having the hook in their mouth.

Can I forgive a cheater? I have in the past in 2000. Never did when my wife had an EA in 2010 and a PA in 2011. I am still working through this. Don't know if I will. But if I do it will be something I do.

Forgiveness may come for me and it is a personal decision.

__________________
This kind of cosmic dumbassery occupies a temporal plane of ineptitude and lack of reason so profound a Zen master could spend a lifetime meditating upon its philosophical consequences.”

sigma1299

You know this USED to be me. I was this arrogant, I was this much of an ass, BEFORE my EA. I am one of the cheaters who is truly remorseful. I stood up and took ownership of my actions and choices. I not only accepted, I asked for accountability for what I had done. I took a massive shot of humiliation and pain - I earned it. I also took a massive lesson in humility, I learned it well. My point is I would never do that now - after my affair. I'm not nearly so arrogant or prideful. I learned my lesson. I think anyone who cheats and is really remorseful goes through pretty much the same thing and post reconciliation truly understands that everyone screws up and that they should treat their spouse with the same forgiveness and understanding that they were treated with.

That's not to say that there aren't lots of reconciliation where the cheater isn't genuinely remorseful, but I think if you're examining a situation where they are, your hypothetical would not happen.

__________________
**Cheaters - Read This**

Kurosity

It seems that it does not matter what anyone says you will just bash that too or come up with “what ifs” and so on (what ifs that have nothing to do with the act of actually forgiving a WS). I think that posting here on this thread anymore is like beating a dead horse.
Your lack of ability to understand how one can forgive, to me, says that you have done little forgiving in your life or you would be able to see how someone can, may be I am wrong in my perception of that but I am sure that the problem lays in you not us silly BS that have forgiven our WS.

That is just how I see it at this point

lovelygirl

What I always wonder is how the cheaters are able to look their cheated partner in the eye again and pretend like nothing happened...even after the R.

I'd be so ashamed of myself If I did that. I wouldn't be able to even talk to my cheated partner again. I'd want to fade away from shame and the lack of respect that I have shown to my partner.
How can I make love to him again ...and the worse...how can he make love to me again after all I did to him???? How can the images on his head (about me and the OM) let him sleep at night?
One has to be VERY strong to try and not think about those scenes.

How can I open my legs to another man then get back home to my man and pretend everything's alright?? I must be very evil to do that.

I just hope I'll never ever be in that situation where I have to cheat and hopefully I won't be cheated on. And if this happens, I hope I have enoguh self-respect to not forgive my cheating partner.

COguy

The more mercy and forgiveness you have been given, the more mercy and forgiveness you can give to others.

I've done some pretty horrible things in my life, I know the feeling of being forgiven for them. Giving that back as a gift is a very wonderful thing, for the giver and receiver.

Beowulf

I stayed with Morrigan because she proved to me that she learned, she grew and she made the changes necessary to protect me. When I decided to trust her again I told her that she was in charge of my heart. It is a very fragile thing and if she broke it again it could never be fixed a second time. So now before she does, says or thinks anything her first thought is how will this affect Beowulf.

And as for the forgiveness. I did not forgive her for her. I forgave her for me. And I would have done that had we stayed together or divorced. Life is too short and too beautiful to carry around that baggage.